Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-05 Thread Masataka Ohta
Mark Andrews wrote: Thus, we must, anyway, protect cache. Then, where is the point to introduce DNSSEC only to have another possibility of security holes? We still lock doors and windows despite the possiblity of people breaking in by lifting tiles. I'm afraid DNSSEC people have been arguing

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-04 Thread Andrew Sullivan
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 03:27:42PM +0900, Masataka Ohta wrote: Though we have to trust the zone administration put correct referral and glue data in a master zone file, unless we use DNSSEC, we don't have to trust the zone administration never issue certificates over forged keys of child

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-04 Thread Masataka Ohta
Andrew Sullivan wrote: Though we have to trust the zone administration put correct referral and glue data in a master zone file, unless we use DNSSEC, we don't have to trust the zone administration never issue certificates over forged keys of child zones. If an attacker can get its bogus data

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-04 Thread Mark Andrews
In message 4a285750.9010...@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp, Masataka Ohta writes: Andrew Sullivan wrote: Though we have to trust the zone administration put correct referral and glue data in a master zone file, unless we use DNSSEC, we don't have to trust the zone administration never issue

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-03 Thread Masataka Ohta
Mark Andrews wrote: A problem of blindly believing a zone administration is that it is only as secure as blindly believing an ISP administration. Attacking a router of a large ISPs is as easy/difficult as attacking a signature generation mechanism of a large zone. The difference is we

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-02 Thread Thierry Moreau
Richard Barnes wrote: This debate has nothing to do with the security properties of DNSSEC. A basic assumption of the DNS is that what the authoritative server for zone says is, well, authoritative. The structure of DNS itself entitles JPNIC to point ac.jp wherever they want; by using a

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-02 Thread Thierry Moreau
Richard Barnes wrote: (That is: You already trust the zones above you to maintain the integrity of the zone on the *server*; This assumption does not stand universally. For some DNS users/usage, DNSSEC signature verification will be a must. The discussion implicitly referred to such

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-02 Thread Masataka Ohta
Thierry Moreau wrote: (That is: You already trust the zones above you to maintain the integrity of the zone on the *server*; This assumption does not stand universally. For some DNS users/usage, DNSSEC signature verification will be a must. The discussion implicitly referred to such

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-02 Thread Paul Wouters
On Wed, 3 Jun 2009, Masataka Ohta wrote: You can, for example, bribe a personnel or two, against which there is no cryptographical protection, which means PKI is weakly secure. You have never heard of a Hardware Security Module? Paul ___ Ietf

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-02 Thread Mark Andrews
In message 4a25b8ef.70...@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp, Masataka Ohta writes: Thierry Moreau wrote: (That is: You already trust the zones above you to maintain the integrity of the zone on the *server*; This assumption does not stand universally. For some DNS users/usage, DNSSEC

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-02 Thread Mark Andrews
In message alpine.lfd.1.10.0906022034140.22...@newtla.xelerance.com, Paul Wou ters writes: On Wed, 3 Jun 2009, Masataka Ohta wrote: You can, for example, bribe a personnel or two, against which there is no cryptographical protection, which means PKI is weakly secure. You have never

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-02 Thread Paul Wouters
On Wed, 3 Jun 2009, Mark Andrews wrote: You can, for example, bribe a personnel or two, against which there is no cryptographical protection, which means PKI is weakly secure. You have never heard of a Hardware Security Module? HSM doesn't stop the wrong data being signed. It just

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-02 Thread Mark Andrews
In message alpine.lfd.1.10.0906022057560.22...@newtla.xelerance.com, Paul Wou ters writes: On Wed, 3 Jun 2009, Mark Andrews wrote: You can, for example, bribe a personnel or two, against which there is no cryptographical protection, which means PKI is weakly secure. You have never

Re: DNSSEC is NOT secure end to end (more tutorial than debating)

2009-06-02 Thread Michael StJohns
At 09:09 PM 6/2/2009, Mark Andrews wrote: HSM's are better than just having the private component of a public key sitting on a disk somewhere but in most operational enviornments they don't add that much more security to the process. It depends on the HSM. For