Re: [ilugd] Software Patent Busting at CIS
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:52 PM, vikas veshishth vikas.v.i...@gmail.comwrote: I didnt understand.Why is it wrong to have software patents.Or are you saying that the concept of Patent itself is wrong ?? --vikas We don't go into the broader question of whether patent itself is wrong. All we are saying is that software is not patentable subject matter under Indian law. Software is simply an algorithm/set of instructions for a computer to execute certain functions and is merely an expression of an idea which does not qualify for patent protection. Software being granted patent (and thus, monopoly for 20 years in an industry which witnesses innovation and development in a span of months or even weeks) results in, contrary to the very purpose for which a patent is granted, stifling of competition and development in the industry apart from preventing SMEs from innovating in the face of hundreds of patent claims filed by industry giants on a daily basis. Krithika ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Software Patent Busting at CIS
2010/8/10 Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) r...@linux-delhi.org: On Tuesday 10 Aug 2010, Ankit Chaturvedi wrote: I'm not a lawyer, though i have been on the wrong side of software patents many times. It's not completely true that software patents are not allowed in india. The simple answer is, it depends on the technology. Mobile, multimedia codecs, et al are frought with patent issues that can be lawfully upheld in india. Not a lawyer either, but AFAIR patents on software per se are not permitted in India. This is generally interpreted as disallowing software patents but permitting patents of embedded software which is tightly bound to the hardware it runs on. Of course, everyone interprets the per se to their own advantage. Patents on embedded devices is different than software patents. Software can not be seperated from embedded device and used individually without the required hardware. As such, it does not become a software patent. To the best of my knowledge a number of patents have been granted on software in India too, but using an under-handed technique. However, standard patents like on MP3 and MPEG technology are technically not valid in India unless implemented embedded. I am asking for some URL for any such patent so that I can go through it and understand the software patents issue in more detail. Looks like software patents in India are just HURD not SEEN ;-) -Sudhanwa ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~! www.projects4students.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Software Patent Busting at CIS
There have been instances where a patent has been applied for a specific algorithm by using hardware acceleration provided by x86 cpus. Common example is accelerating video encoding by using the sse/mmx/3dnow extended instruction set, which differs slightly between cpu models and brands. This ties the software to a specific piece of hardware without actually building the hardware itself. Trivial, yes, and a clever lawyer can still prove dependence on h/w as a reason for not considering it as a software patent. You can refer to almost any patent on h.264 encoding acceleration and you will find that most of them deal with just accelerating motion searches using some sort of super-scalar execution technique, limiting anyone from using that technique even though it is only a (faster) software implemention of a standard. On 8/13/10, Sudhanwa Jogalekar sudhanwa@gmail.com wrote: 2010/8/10 Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) r...@linux-delhi.org: On Tuesday 10 Aug 2010, Ankit Chaturvedi wrote: I'm not a lawyer, though i have been on the wrong side of software patents many times. It's not completely true that software patents are not allowed in india. The simple answer is, it depends on the technology. Mobile, multimedia codecs, et al are frought with patent issues that can be lawfully upheld in india. Not a lawyer either, but AFAIR patents on software per se are not permitted in India. This is generally interpreted as disallowing software patents but permitting patents of embedded software which is tightly bound to the hardware it runs on. Of course, everyone interprets the per se to their own advantage. Patents on embedded devices is different than software patents. Software can not be seperated from embedded device and used individually without the required hardware. As such, it does not become a software patent. To the best of my knowledge a number of patents have been granted on software in India too, but using an under-handed technique. However, standard patents like on MP3 and MPEG technology are technically not valid in India unless implemented embedded. I am asking for some URL for any such patent so that I can go through it and understand the software patents issue in more detail. Looks like software patents in India are just HURD not SEEN ;-) -Sudhanwa ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~! www.projects4students.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd -- Sent from my mobile device -- Ankit Chaturvedi GPG: 05DE FDC5 468B 7D9F 9F45 72F1 F7B9 9E16 ECA2 CC23 http://www.google.com/profiles/ankit.chaturvedi ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Software Patent Busting at CIS
Dear Krithika, This is a welcome initiative by CIS. The kind of sneaky language that is being used to file software patents is against the will of the Indian parliament and needs to be defeated. Venky On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Krithika krithika...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, software is not patentable in India. That is precisely why the trend of software claims being applied for and granted patents in India is a disturbing trend. Although the applicant may not explicitly claim that it is software, many patent claims which are essentially software are couched in confusing language, or merely attached to hardware (which, by itself is not innovative). Alternately, software is patented by embedding it in hardware (which has no utility other than executing the software) and by claiming patent for the combination of the two. We are therefore, working to bust this trend by filing oppositions - pre-grant or post-grant - to these patents. Krithika On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:27 PM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar sudhanwa@gmail.comwrote: Software patents are not allowed in India. No point in wasting energy related to software patents. There could be some interesting case about the patents in the products Micosoft is selling in India. What will be the validity of such patents within the products. Legal experts, please comment. -Sudhanwa On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Krithika krithika...@gmail.com wrote: Dear All, The Centre for Internet and Society (CIS) is filing a pre-grant opposition to a software patent application by Microsoft. We need people to help us analyse the technical claims of the application and possibly those of previously granted patents/previously filed applications where the invention is similar to the one in the application we wish to oppose. Interested persons may write to me at the earliest at krithika...@gmail.com. Regards Krithika The Centre for Internet and Society Bangalore ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd -- ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~! www.projects4students.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Software Patent Busting at CIS
I didnt understand.Why is it wrong to have software patents.Or are you saying that the concept of Patent itself is wrong ?? --vikas On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Venkatesh Hariharan ven...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Krithika, This is a welcome initiative by CIS. The kind of sneaky language that is being used to file software patents is against the will of the Indian parliament and needs to be defeated. Venky On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Krithika krithika...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, software is not patentable in India. That is precisely why the trend of software claims being applied for and granted patents in India is a disturbing trend. Although the applicant may not explicitly claim that it is software, many patent claims which are essentially software are couched in confusing language, or merely attached to hardware (which, by itself is not innovative). Alternately, software is patented by embedding it in hardware (which has no utility other than executing the software) and by claiming patent for the combination of the two. We are therefore, working to bust this trend by filing oppositions - pre-grant or post-grant - to these patents. Krithika On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:27 PM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar sudhanwa@gmail.comwrote: Software patents are not allowed in India. No point in wasting energy related to software patents. There could be some interesting case about the patents in the products Micosoft is selling in India. What will be the validity of such patents within the products. Legal experts, please comment. -Sudhanwa On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Krithika krithika...@gmail.com wrote: Dear All, The Centre for Internet and Society (CIS) is filing a pre-grant opposition to a software patent application by Microsoft. We need people to help us analyse the technical claims of the application and possibly those of previously granted patents/previously filed applications where the invention is similar to the one in the application we wish to oppose. Interested persons may write to me at the earliest at krithika...@gmail.com. Regards Krithika The Centre for Internet and Society Bangalore ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd -- ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~! www.projects4students.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Software Patent Busting at CIS
vikas veshishth said on Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 02:52:25PM +0530,: I didnt understand.Why is it wrong to have software patents.Or are you saying that the concept of Patent itself is wrong ?? Thanks for asking. If you can, please attend this event:- http://www.fsf.org/events/20100902-dsp-guwahati http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/software-literary-patents.html Here are some links:- http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2005/jun/23/onlinesupplement.insideit http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/hague.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/fighting-software-patents.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/guardian-article.html You can also visit the SWAPAT and EFF sites. (a search on your favourite search engihne would throw up the links). HTH. -- Mahesh T. Pai || http://[paivakil|fizzard].blogspot.com End Users are just friends who haven't submitted a patch yet. ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Software Patent Busting at CIS
Software patents are not allowed in India. No point in wasting energy related to software patents. There could be some interesting case about the patents in the products Micosoft is selling in India. What will be the validity of such patents within the products. Legal experts, please comment. -Sudhanwa On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Krithika krithika...@gmail.com wrote: Dear All, The Centre for Internet and Society (CIS) is filing a pre-grant opposition to a software patent application by Microsoft. We need people to help us analyse the technical claims of the application and possibly those of previously granted patents/previously filed applications where the invention is similar to the one in the application we wish to oppose. Interested persons may write to me at the earliest at krithika...@gmail.com. Regards Krithika The Centre for Internet and Society Bangalore ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd -- ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~! www.projects4students.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Software Patent Busting at CIS
Sudhanwa, I am not a lawyer, but some software patents have been granted by the patent office, while many others have been applied for. Based on the status, one will have to file a pre-grant or post-grant opposition against these patents. Venky = On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:27 PM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar sudhanwa@gmail.com wrote: Software patents are not allowed in India. No point in wasting energy related to software patents. There could be some interesting case about the patents in the products Micosoft is selling in India. What will be the validity of such patents within the products. Legal experts, please comment. -Sudhanwa On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Krithika krithika...@gmail.com wrote: Dear All, The Centre for Internet and Society (CIS) is filing a pre-grant opposition to a software patent application by Microsoft. We need people to help us analyse the technical claims of the application and possibly those of previously granted patents/previously filed applications where the invention is similar to the one in the application we wish to oppose. Interested persons may write to me at the earliest at krithika...@gmail.com. Regards Krithika The Centre for Internet and Society Bangalore ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd -- ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~! www.projects4students.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Software Patent Busting at CIS
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Venkatesh Hariharan ven...@gmail.com wrote: Sudhanwa, I am not a lawyer, but some software patents have been granted by the patent office, while many others have been applied for. Based on the status, one will have to file a pre-grant or post-grant opposition against these patents. Can you please give some examples or the URLs for the said patents. Need to find a lawyer to fight against that. -Sudhanwa Venky = On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:27 PM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar sudhanwa@gmail.com wrote: Software patents are not allowed in India. No point in wasting energy related to software patents. There could be some interesting case about the patents in the products Micosoft is selling in India. What will be the validity of such patents within the products. Legal experts, please comment. -Sudhanwa On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Krithika krithika...@gmail.com wrote: Dear All, The Centre for Internet and Society (CIS) is filing a pre-grant opposition to a software patent application by Microsoft. We need people to help us analyse the technical claims of the application and possibly those of previously granted patents/previously filed applications where the invention is similar to the one in the application we wish to oppose. Interested persons may write to me at the earliest at krithika...@gmail.com. Regards Krithika The Centre for Internet and Society Bangalore ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd -- ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~! www.projects4students.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd -- ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~! www.projects4students.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Software Patent Busting at CIS
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar sudhanwa@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Venkatesh Hariharan ven...@gmail.com wrote: Sudhanwa, I am not a lawyer, but some software patents have been granted by the patent office, while many others have been applied for. Based on the status, one will have to file a pre-grant or post-grant opposition against these patents. Can you please give some examples or the URLs for the said patents. Need to find a lawyer to fight against that. -Sudhanwa try these: http://www.pfc.org.in/db/db.htm http://india.bigpatents.org/ Venky ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Software Patent Busting at CIS
Hi all, I'm not a lawyer, though i have been on the wrong side of software patents many times. It's not completely true that software patents are not allowed in india. The simple answer is, it depends on the technology. Mobile, multimedia codecs, et al are frought with patent issues that can be lawfully upheld in india. To the OP, what kind of domain are we talking about? Is there a similar patent awarded elsewhere, particularly US? It would be helpful if there is a patent overview or application no. available. Again, these kind of things rarely go in favor of foss, so please share as much info as possible. Thanks. On 8/10/10, Krithika krithika...@gmail.com wrote: Dear All, The Centre for Internet and Society (CIS) is filing a pre-grant opposition to a software patent application by Microsoft. We need people to help us analyse the technical claims of the application and possibly those of previously granted patents/previously filed applications where the invention is similar to the one in the application we wish to oppose. Interested persons may write to me at the earliest at krithika...@gmail.com. Regards Krithika The Centre for Internet and Society Bangalore ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd -- Sent from my mobile device -- Ankit Chaturvedi GPG: 05DE FDC5 468B 7D9F 9F45 72F1 F7B9 9E16 ECA2 CC23 http://www.google.com/profiles/ankit.chaturvedi ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Software Patent Busting at CIS
On Tuesday 10 Aug 2010, Ankit Chaturvedi wrote: I'm not a lawyer, though i have been on the wrong side of software patents many times. It's not completely true that software patents are not allowed in india. The simple answer is, it depends on the technology. Mobile, multimedia codecs, et al are frought with patent issues that can be lawfully upheld in india. Not a lawyer either, but AFAIR patents on software per se are not permitted in India. This is generally interpreted as disallowing software patents but permitting patents of embedded software which is tightly bound to the hardware it runs on. Of course, everyone interprets the per se to their own advantage. To the best of my knowledge a number of patents have been granted on software in India too, but using an under-handed technique. However, standard patents like on MP3 and MPEG technology are technically not valid in India unless implemented embedded. Regards, -- Raju -- Raj Mathurr...@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Software Patent Busting at CIS
Yes, software is not patentable in India. That is precisely why the trend of software claims being applied for and granted patents in India is a disturbing trend. Although the applicant may not explicitly claim that it is software, many patent claims which are essentially software are couched in confusing language, or merely attached to hardware (which, by itself is not innovative). Alternately, software is patented by embedding it in hardware (which has no utility other than executing the software) and by claiming patent for the combination of the two. We are therefore, working to bust this trend by filing oppositions - pre-grant or post-grant - to these patents. Krithika On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:27 PM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar sudhanwa@gmail.comwrote: Software patents are not allowed in India. No point in wasting energy related to software patents. There could be some interesting case about the patents in the products Micosoft is selling in India. What will be the validity of such patents within the products. Legal experts, please comment. -Sudhanwa On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Krithika krithika...@gmail.com wrote: Dear All, The Centre for Internet and Society (CIS) is filing a pre-grant opposition to a software patent application by Microsoft. We need people to help us analyse the technical claims of the application and possibly those of previously granted patents/previously filed applications where the invention is similar to the one in the application we wish to oppose. Interested persons may write to me at the earliest at krithika...@gmail.com. Regards Krithika The Centre for Internet and Society Bangalore ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd -- ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~! www.projects4students.com ___ Ilugd mailing list Ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
