Dear Anuragji, There are two validly described species, O. obtusata and O. gamblei (Plant List shows that the identity of O. gamblei is unresolved but such lists in the website are compile from secondary sources and therefore they often add misgivings). Kanis in Blumea 16: 34. 1968 reduced O. gamblei to a variety of O. obtusata. Var. gamblei differs from var. obtusata mainly in the glaucous undersurface of the leaves, obtuse to rounded at apex. I think that this is the appropriate treatment as most of the available specimens can be assigned to the respective varieties using these characters leaving aside some intergredations. In conclusion, I would like to assign your photographs to Ochna obtusata DC., var. gamblei (King ex Brandis) Kanis. (syn. O. beddomei Gamble). The association of some misidentified specimens as O. squarrosa with O. obtusata is already clarified. Regards, TC.
On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 11:43 AM, J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote: > GRIN <http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?423673> (updated > in 2007) gives *Ochna* *obtusata* DC. var. *gamblei* (King ex Brandis) > Kanis as a syn. of *Ochna gamblei *King ex Brandis > <http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?423868> > > As per The Plant List Ver. 1.1, *Ochna gamblei *King ex Brandis > <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2399902> is unresolved. > > Various references under *Ochna* > <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/o/ochnaceae/ochna>, > also give it as an accepted name. > > On 15 May 2015 at 22:12, surajit koley <surajitnotavaila...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Sir, >> >> Does it mean we have only *Ochna obtusata* DC., without any var.? >> >> Thank you >> >> Regards >> >> surajit >> >> >> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 9:59 PM, Tapas Chakrabarty <tchak...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> You have to see the following reference and what they say about the >>> delimitation; if not satisfied, then you have to see the original >>> descriptions and types of all the entities: >>> Safui & M.P. Nayar in Hajra et al., Fl. India 4: 429. 1997. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 9:46 PM, surajit koley < >>> surajitnotavaila...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Thank you very much Sir. >>>> >>>> Anurag Ji, >>>> >>>> I am unable to answer your Q.3. In college I/we didn't learn taxonomy >>>> to genus or species level, our syllabus covered identification of a few >>>> family only. >>>> If i google "coriaceous leaf" it gives these pictures >>>> <https://www.google.co.in/search?q=coriaceous+leaf&biw=1366&bih=643&sout=1&tbm=isch&ei=8BVWVfWyGoKPuASA_4G4Cw&start=0&sa=N> >>>> . >>>> "Waxy leaf" should be something like leaves of *Colocasia esculenta* (L.) >>>> Schott >>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=107697#KEY-1-4> >>>> . >>>> >>>> KEY in Flora of Karnataka (you have attached) informs leaves of var. >>>> *gamblei* are glaucous. So you have now waxy-glaucous leaves just like >>>> the colocasia above. I think you can go with *Ochna obtusata* var. >>>> * gamblei* >>>> <http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do;jsessionid=79601186E2AE94726247E8EFEDC66F41?id=60458747-2&back_page=%2Fipni%2FeditAdvPlantNameSearch.do%3Bjsessionid%3DF9DD35168DE796CE6042B10B1831C2F6%3Ffind_infragenus%3D%26find_isAPNIRecord%3Dtrue%26find_geoUnit%3D%26find_includePublicationAuthors%3Dtrue%26find_addedSince%3D%26find_family%3DOchnaceae%26find_genus%3D%26find_isGCIRecord%3Dtrue%26find_infrafamily%3D%26find_rankToReturn%3D%26find_publicationTitle%3D%26find_authorAbbrev%3D%26find_infraspecies%3D%26find_includeBasionymAuthors%3Dtrue%26find_modifiedSince%3D%26find_isIKRecord%3Dtrue%26find_species%3D%26output_format%3Dnormal> >>>> (Brandis) >>>> Kanis >>>> <http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do;jsessionid=79601186E2AE94726247E8EFEDC66F41?id=60458747-2&back_page=%2Fipni%2FeditAdvPlantNameSearch.do%3Bjsessionid%3DF9DD35168DE796CE6042B10B1831C2F6%3Ffind_infragenus%3D%26find_isAPNIRecord%3Dtrue%26find_geoUnit%3D%26find_includePublicationAuthors%3Dtrue%26find_addedSince%3D%26find_family%3DOchnaceae%26find_genus%3D%26find_isGCIRecord%3Dtrue%26find_infrafamily%3D%26find_rankToReturn%3D%26find_publicationTitle%3D%26find_authorAbbrev%3D%26find_infraspecies%3D%26find_includeBasionymAuthors%3Dtrue%26find_modifiedSince%3D%26find_isIKRecord%3Dtrue%26find_species%3D%26output_format%3Dnormal> >>>> . >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 7:56 PM, Tapas Chakrabarty <tchak...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> This is why taxonomic revisions become necessary. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Anurag Sharma <anurag.op...@gmail.com >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thank you Tapas sir, Surajit sir, Promila ma'am. >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) Surajit sir, when I first posted this plant, I did not have access >>>>>> to some local flora which could have helped. I recently got a copy. Here >>>>>> is >>>>>> attached the key to species of Ochna in Karnataka (From Fl. Karnataka >>>>>> C.J. >>>>>> Saldanha). This was published in the 1970s. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2) Based on the key, would you agree that this comes close to *Ochna >>>>>> obtusata* var.* gamblei* (Brandis) Kanis? This name does not appear >>>>>> in the plantlist. My reasoning is (as per my observation)- leaves are >>>>>> around 6 cm long, Petals 2-2.3 cm long, most of the leaves rounded at >>>>>> apex >>>>>> and obscurely serrate. >>>>>> >>>>>> 3) And as for the texture of leaves, I am afraid I do not know the >>>>>> difference between coriaceous and waxy. Don't all leathery leaves seem >>>>>> waxy >>>>>> too and vice versa? >>>>>> >>>>>> 4) Please also see the last attachment from K.M Matthew's flora of >>>>>> Tamil Nadu Carnatic in which *Ochna obtusata* var *obtusata* is >>>>>> clubbed with *Ochna squarrosa* L. In this case, please see the >>>>>> description of *Ochna squarrosa *L. >>>>>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/pdf/Ochna%20squarrosa/Ochna%20squarrosa.jpg> >>>>>> from Bangalore Flora in which the leaf apex is listed as acute = same as >>>>>> in *Ochna >>>>>> obtusata* var. *obtusata* description in Flora of Karnataka and >>>>>> diagram in Flora of Tamil Nadu Carnatic. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please let me know what you make of this sir. >>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 4:48 PM, Promila Chaturvedi < >>>>>> thegardener.chaturv...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> It may be Ocna squerosa-Ramdhan Champa >>>>>>> Promila >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 9:40 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>> surajitnotavaila...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Certainly Sir, that's why I wrote "All these are features of *Ochna >>>>>>>> squarrosa* L. of Flora of British India". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And I also noted in FBI one of its synonyms was *O. obtustata* DC. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Now, I do not know what are the differences between *squarrosa* L. >>>>>>>> and *squarrosa* non L. Neither do I know if this plant is the type >>>>>>>> species or any var. or some other. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> However, as I read my points I wrote in earlier mail I notice there >>>>>>>> is some mistake in point 3, it should be "sepals not much shorter than >>>>>>>> petals". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 9:01 PM, Tapas Chakrabarty < >>>>>>>> tchak...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So far as my knowledge goes, Ochna obtusata is different and >>>>>>>>> distinct from O. squarrosa. Of course, O. squarrosa sensu FBI, non L. >>>>>>>>> belongs here. >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> TC. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 7:51 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>>> surajitnotavaila...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Oh! yes, there is naming issue >>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/o/ochnaceae/ochna/ochna-obtusata> >>>>>>>>>> Sir. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Tapas Chakrabarty < >>>>>>>>>> tchak...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It looks like Ochna obtusata. >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> TC. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 1:43 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>>>>> surajitnotavaila...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Anurag Ji, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I received this mail on 23rd last month. To my surprise it also >>>>>>>>>>>> remains untouched. I will try with my century and half old lit., >>>>>>>>>>>> for FoC or >>>>>>>>>>>> FoP or eFI doesn't provide me KEY. I wonder why my modern equipped >>>>>>>>>>>> friends >>>>>>>>>>>> remain silent! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The features I find here are - >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> - a tree (maybe a large shrub) >>>>>>>>>>>> - flowers are relatively large >>>>>>>>>>>> - sepals not much larger than petals >>>>>>>>>>>> - anthers many time longer than short filaments >>>>>>>>>>>> - style exceeding (not much though) stamens >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> All these are features of *Ochna squarrosa* L. of Flora of >>>>>>>>>>>> British India. Leaf shape and margin serration vary. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> But, as I said these are old lit., we need modern materials, >>>>>>>>>>>> our modern eFI informs there are taxa like - 1) *O. gamblei* 2) >>>>>>>>>>>> *O. serrulata* 3) *O. kirkii* which I do not know. Don't wish >>>>>>>>>>>> to find out synonyms to relate them with FBI. Would DNA analysis >>>>>>>>>>>> help? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> My concern here is leaf texture, nothing else. You my check if >>>>>>>>>>>> you can find details on *O. gamblei* (GRIN gives a synonym >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?423868#syn>) >>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>> have waxy leaves >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://envis.frlht.org/showherbarium.php?d=5895> as per >>>>>>>>>>>> FRLHT. I am not sure if your leaves can be called waxy. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Better wait for experts from your region. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 11:02 AM, J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Forwarding again for Id assistance please. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some earlier relevant feedback: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ochna >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/o/ochnaceae/ochna> >>>>>>>>>>>>> species in eFloraofindia (with details/ *keys *from >>>>>>>>>>>>> published papers/ regional floras/ FRLHT/ FOI/ Biotik/ efloras/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> books etc., >>>>>>>>>>>>> where ever available) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Anurag Sharma <anurag.op...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 17 April 2015 at 19:30 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:221298] ANAPR48 Ochna sp. for >>>>>>>>>>>>> identification >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: indiantreepix@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Family: Ochnaceae >>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 17th April 2015 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Place: Nandi Hills, Bangalore, Karnataka >>>>>>>>>>>>> Habit: Shrub/Small tree >>>>>>>>>>>>> Habitat: Scrub forest >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> indiantreepix@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more >>>>>>>>>>>>> than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Butterflies, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also >>>>>>>>>>>>> use them >>>>>>>>>>>>> for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google >>>>>>>>>>>>> e-group >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on >>>>>>>>>>>>> 9.9.14) or Efloraofindia >>>>>>>>>>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with >>>>>>>>>>>>> a species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 >>>>>>>>>>>>> images). Winner >>>>>>>>>>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common >>>>>>>>>>>>> Birds of India'. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>> indiantreepix@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to indiantreepix@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to indiantreepix@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Anurag N. Sharma >>>>>> BSc. (CBZ) 2nd Year >>>>>> St. Josephs College >>>>>> Bangalore >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "efloraofindia" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to indiantreepix@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > With regards, > J.M.Garg > > 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> > The whole world uses my Image Resource > <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a > thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. > (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as > per Creative Commons license attached with each image. > > For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, > please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group > <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the > world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or Efloraofindia > website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species > database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of > Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia > <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. > > Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of > India'. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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