Giby ji How could you also make the same mistake.? Your first photograph clearly shows 4 pairs (8 leaflets) of leaflets, Satish ji first photograph 3 pairs (6 leaflets) and second 4 pairs (8 leaflets). He last two photographs of Satish ji are an abberation and should be taken as normal.
-- Dr. Gurcharan Singh Retired Associate Professor SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Giby Kuriakose <giby.kuriak...@gmail.com>wrote: > Dear sir, > > I too got 2 pairs of leaflets in my plants. I have checked several plants > around and most of them having 2 pairs of leaflets as well. > Now there are 2-4 leaflets (I havent seen 5 pairs yet) on the same plant. > I shall upload pictures if necessary. > > Regards > Giby > > > > > On 27 October 2011 21:11, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Satish ji >> The whole problem in this thread is because where there are four leaflets >> (two pairs) you are counting them as two leaflets, and where they are eight >> (4 pairs) you count them as 4. I had doubt about this after seeing Giby ji's >> photographs, but your upload now confirms it. >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> Retired Associate Professor >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Satish Phadke <drsmpha...@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> Agreed Gurcharan ji >>> We and Science (I mean Scientific community) require many more people >>> with similar mind as yours.Nothing should be taken for granted unless one >>> personally checks and satisfied about it. >>> I am ready to check the plant further. You have a valid point there. >>> I have not gone in details of the paper but will do so. >>> Regarding my plant.....I want to stress that There are quite a few plants >>> (So called Cassia uniflora ;attaching a picture) with similar looking >>> flowers and leaves. Some plants in the group are very small(^inches or so) >>> producing flowers and leaves very similar to these but only with two twigs >>> having two pairs of leaflets as in earlier posted picture. Can't a plant >>> have less number of leaflets? The pods are also seen in some which might be >>> helpful. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 4:37 PM, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> Yes Giby ji >>>> Your plant has clearly four pairs of leaflets. This is what I have been >>>> stressing all through. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Giby ji >>>>> I think you have gone through the paper for which I have sent the link. >>>>> When we are considering the introduced species we should rely more on the >>>>> Books pertaining to that area and not local floras. If you have gone >>>>> through >>>>> the cited paper you will realize that key in the genus is often based on >>>>> number of leaflets as one character (besides others). This plant as Satish >>>>> ji has mentioned and seen in the photograph has only four leaflets, and >>>>> Satish ji has seen some with only two leaflets. How can we believe an >>>>> introduced weed which is supposed to have generally 4 pairs of leaflets >>>>> (3-5 >>>>> pairs) can have only 2-4 leaflets in our area, Please give serious thought >>>>> to it. I am attaching the paper in case you did not read it. >>>>> >>>>> And yes if I am providing you the detailed nomenclature I must be >>>>> knowing all its synonyms including C. sericea,, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Giby Kuriakose < >>>>> giby.kuriak...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Gurcharan ji, >>>>>> >>>>>> *Senna uniflora* (Mill.) H.S.Irwin & Barne has several synonyms as >>>>>> per the plant list (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/ild-21536) and >>>>>> *Cassia sericea* is one among them. >>>>>> * >>>>>> * >>>>>> *C. sericea *has been mentioned in several flora books such as Flora >>>>>> of Coorg (Murthy & Yoganarasimhan, 1990), Flora of Udupi (Bhat, 2003) >>>>>> etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> I too got this plant recently and photographed in detail from >>>>>> Bangalore. I shall upload them soon. I have identified my *specimen *by >>>>>> running the key as *C. sericea *and while checking the name in the >>>>>> plant list I found that this is *S. uniflora* now. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> Giby >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 27 October 2011 14:50, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry Satish ji >>>>>>> Some mix up in formatting earlier. here is correct form >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Satish ji >>>>>>> Thanks for your conclusion, but I would like you to consider a few >>>>>>> things before taking a final decision. >>>>>>> I have not seen this plant in nature myself but judging from the >>>>>>> available information, I fear it never has 4 leaflets, not to say of 2 >>>>>>> leaflets that you write. >>>>>>> Senna uniflora is an American weed, and only recently introduced in >>>>>>> India (Not reported in FBI), and we can't expect it to undergo drastic >>>>>>> changes in India over a short period of time. >>>>>>> From all sources of information the species usually has 4 pairs of >>>>>>> leaflets (and not 4 leaflets) though the number may varry from 3-5 >>>>>>> pairs. >>>>>>> Some identifications get fixed in mind and difficult to forget. My >>>>>>> colleagues would fight with me when I would tell them spinach they are >>>>>>> using >>>>>>> in their practicals is not Spinaceae oleracea, rather leafy vegetable a >>>>>>> variety of Beta vulgaris. It took me more than 10 years to make them >>>>>>> understand when they gave this plant in taxonomy classes. The >>>>>>> description of >>>>>>> two is poles apart. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I request you to kindly go through the attached paper, study the >>>>>>> plants and then decide. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/6352/1/NPR%208(5)%20525-527.pdf<http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/6352/1/NPR%208%285%29%20525-527.pdf> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am not saying that this is Senna absus, but just for infrmation S. >>>>>>> absus is a species long established in India, has four leaflets and >>>>>>> also a >>>>>>> gland between the leaflets. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Senna unflora has been introduced in in many places in India >>>>>>> including Pune, Karanataka and other places, and you and other members >>>>>>> may >>>>>>> soon find specimens with true S. uniflora characters. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Satish ji >>>>>>>> Thanks for your conclusion, but I would like you to consider a few >>>>>>>> things before taking a final decision. >>>>>>>> I have not seen this plant in nature myself but judging from the >>>>>>>> available information, I fear it never has 4 leaflets, not to say of 2 >>>>>>>> leaflets that you write. >>>>>>>> Senna uniflora is an American weed, and only recently introduced in >>>>>>>> India (Not reported in FBI), and we can't expect it to undergo drastic >>>>>>>> changes in India over a short period of time. >>>>>>>> From all sources of information the species usually has 4 pairs of >>>>>>>> leaflets (and not 4 leaflets) though the number may varry from 3-5 >>>>>>>> pairs. >>>>>>>> Some identifications get fixed in mind and difficult to forget. My >>>>>>>> colleagues would fight with me when I would tell them spinach they are >>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>> in their practicals is not Spinaceae oleracea, rather leafy vegetable a >>>>>>>> variety of Beta vulgaris. It took me more than 10 years to make them >>>>>>>> understand when they gave this plant in taxonomy classes. The >>>>>>>> description of >>>>>>>> two is poles apart. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I request you to kindly go through the attached paper, study the >>>>>>>> plants and then decide. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/6352/1/NPR%208(5)%20525-527.pdf<http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/6352/1/NPR%208%285%29%20525-527.pdf> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>>>> I am not saying that this is Senna absus, but just for infrmation S. >>>>>>>> absus is a species long established in India, has four leaflets and >>>>>>>> also a >>>>>>>> gland between the leaflets. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Senna unflora has been introduced in in many places in India >>>>>>>> including Pune, Karanataka and other places, and you and other members >>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>> soon find specimens with true S. uniflora characters. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Satish Phadke < >>>>>>>> drsmpha...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes I remember Aparna Watve ji had told me about the commonest >>>>>>>>> similar looking plant without glands is Cassia tora. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Giby Kuriakose < >>>>>>>>> giby.kuriak...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes this is *Cassia uniflora** *now known as *Senna* *uniflora* >>>>>>>>>> (Mill.) >>>>>>>>>> H.S.Irwin & Barneby. >>>>>>>>>> If you check the compound leaves carefully, you can see the >>>>>>>>>> stalked yellow glands on the rachis in between leaflets (mostly with >>>>>>>>>> basal >>>>>>>>>> 1-2 pairs). If they (stalked yellow glands) are not there in any of >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> leaves this can be some other species. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Giby >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 27 October 2011 12:49, Satish Phadke <drsmpha...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I rechecked about similar plants in the vicinity. >>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Rajdeo singh ji >>>>>>>>>>> This appears to be a small plant of *Cassia uniflora* only. >>>>>>>>>>> Similar small plants were showing two leflets each but the >>>>>>>>>>> characters of leaves appear close to *C.uniflora* rather than * >>>>>>>>>>> C.absus*. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Satish Phadke < >>>>>>>>>>> drsmpha...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I am keeping a watch on the interesting discussion and learning >>>>>>>>>>>> through this. >>>>>>>>>>>> All comments are welcome. >>>>>>>>>>>> There were several plants in the area all about 6 inches or so >>>>>>>>>>>> tall They had two pairs of leaflets each.......prompting me about >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> identity of *S.absus* >>>>>>>>>>>> If I happen to visit the area again I will try to extract some >>>>>>>>>>>> more characters. Would any one like to suggest to check for some >>>>>>>>>>>> specific >>>>>>>>>>>> character Pl. let me know. >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks and Regards. >>>>>>>>>>>> Dr Phadke >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 5:05 PM, H S <hemsan...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cassia absus never come in Single flower >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 3:46 AM, Gurcharan Singh < >>>>>>>>>>>>> singh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Friends >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To me it again appears to be a case where we are discussing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the identity of a plant without considering authority. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It also highlights the fact that many of us give our decisions >>>>>>>>>>>>>> without trying to justify our decision or negate others' >>>>>>>>>>>>>> conclusion >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me first point out that there is no accepted name such as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chamaecrista uniflora, nor any accepted species name Cassia >>>>>>>>>>>>>> uniflora >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now coming back to Cassia uniflora, there are two taxa by that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> name >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Cassia uniflora Mill., characterised by 5-9 leaflets, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> flowers 2-6 together. This is now correctly known as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Senna* *uniflora* (Mill.) H.S.Irwin & Barneby >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://achutha.net/WeedWatch.html >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Senna uniflora Spreng., a very distinct plant with four >>>>>>>>>>>>>> leaflets arranged like a cross and with single flower. this is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> now correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> known as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Chamaecrista* *ramosa* (Vogel) H.S.Irwin & Barneby >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://floredeguyane.piwigo.com/index?/category/28-chamaecrista_ramosa >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think Vijayasankar ji is correct in saying that Senna >>>>>>>>>>>>>> uniflora is the plant already discussed on our website for which >>>>>>>>>>>>>> he has >>>>>>>>>>>>>> provided the link. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And till we find a better choice, the best match is still >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cassia absus L. now correctly known as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Chamaecrista* *absus* (L.) H.S.Irwin & Barneby >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 2:54 PM, H S <hemsan...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all are C. uniflora >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 6:41 AM, Vijayasankar < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vijay.botan...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Agree with Rajdeo ji, it is not Cassia absus. If it is C. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> uniflora, then the correct genus is Senna (S. uniflora), but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to me it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't look like S. uniflora either. Pl c this link >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/669102a1420b541f?fwc=1&hl=en >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vijayasankar Raman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> National Center for Natural Products Research >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> University of Mississippi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 6:37 AM, H S >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <hemsan...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Correct genus for this plant is Chamaecrista >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:19 AM, rajdeo singh < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rajdeo.1...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Satish ji, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is not Cassia absus, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its Cassia uniflora. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *** >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rajdeo Singh >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Project fellow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> St. Xavier's College, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mumbai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - H.S. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a mere heart of stone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - H.S. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mere heart of stone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> - H.S. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a >>>>>>>>>>>>> mere heart of stone >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Dr Satish Phadke >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Dr Satish Phadke >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> GIBY KURIAKOSE PhD >>>>>>>>>> Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE), >>>>>>>>>> Royal Enclave, >>>>>>>>>> Jakkur Post, Srirampura >>>>>>>>>> Bangalore- 560064 >>>>>>>>>> India >>>>>>>>>> Phone - +91 9448714856 (Mobile) >>>>>>>>>> visit my pictures @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/giby >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Dr Satish Phadke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> GIBY KURIAKOSE PhD >>>>>> Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE), >>>>>> Royal Enclave, >>>>>> Jakkur Post, Srirampura >>>>>> Bangalore- 560064 >>>>>> India >>>>>> Phone - +91 9448714856 (Mobile) >>>>>> visit my pictures @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/giby >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr Satish Phadke >>> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > GIBY KURIAKOSE PhD > Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE), > Royal Enclave, > Jakkur Post, Srirampura > Bangalore- 560064 > India > Phone - +91 9448714856 (Mobile) > visit my pictures @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/giby >
