Pleased to learn of this. But Saussurea glacialis is not on 'The Plant List'
as an accepted name. Nor isthe synonym in the link. Can you say which species
it is included under in 'The Plant List'?
Saussurea remains a difficult genus with frequent mix-ups. May I request (and
this applies for every plant ofevery genus) that photographers take more than
just one general shot (covering the plant's habit and flowers).It is so helpful
for reliably identifying plants to have close-ups of various parts of the
flowers (or flower-heads in thecase of Saussurea) not forgetting close-ups of
leaves (both upper and lower surface) plus a habitat shot or two. Nowadays I am
to take a minimum of 10-20 images per plant. I appreciated it is demanding to
do this at the highest altitudes esp.4000-5000m but with practise one speeds up
and gets into doing this automatically.
It is often so much harder to attempt to name a plant from a single image,
which at times does not show the important details.Yes, it is possible to do
this is many cases but other times it becomes very difficult - and for others,
using such images, itdoes not help much when distinguishing between
closely-related species. Often the images in 'Flowers of the Himalaya'
e.g.though good enough when published in the early 1980s (and only economic to
printed a single image per species), with theaid of digital photography and
web-sites, we need to be aiming to have, at the least, several images for each
species.
At times we are trying to do the impossible with images which do not show the
characteristics we need to see to be confidentas to identifications. And we
need images of a species from a number of locations, which help to illustrate
intra-specific variation,helping us not to think something belongs to a
different species altogether or mistakenly that it is "new to science".
I went through Stewart again and see that S.glacialis Herder was given as a
synonym for S.chthonocephala Bornm. - recorded from Chitral but not Ladakh. It
was said to be near S.thomsonii Clarke.
As for S.thomsonii this was recorded from Nubra & Tibet, described as dwarf,
stemless, coriaceous, heads small, congested. Like a dwarf S.atkiinsonii -
which was recorded as common on alpine meadows in Kashmir.
I note that Dickore & Klimes record S.glacialis from Ladakh.
Best Wishes,
Chris Chadwell
81 Parlaunt Road
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK
www.shpa.org.uk
From: J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>
Cc: D.S Rawat <drdsrawat.alpin...@gmail.com>; chrischadwell...@btinternet.com;
Narendra Joshi <narend...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, 15 October 2016, 16:18
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:253131] Kailash-Manasarovar Yatra::Saussurea
inversa NSJ-OCT 16/11
Forwarding again for Id assistance please.Some earlier relevant feedback:
| Interesting Saussurea species. A trans-Himalayan one as I suppose.
S. inversa is not known in Uttarakhand.
DSRawat Pantnagar |
| This is a new 'species' for me but I am doubtful it is S.inversa on the
basis of the image taken in Paddar Valley named as such on the FOI site see:
http://www.flowersofindia.net/ catalog/slides/Inverse%20Snow% 20Lotus.html
which is presumably where the provisional name came from matching with? Not
recorded from Ladakh or known in Stewart's day (assuming it is found in
W.Himalaya). Not in 'Enumeration of Flowering Plants of Nepal'. Many 'new'
species have been described in the Himalaya in recent decades - a complicated
genus (like so many).
As for existing species, there is much confusion between S.simpsoniana and
S.gossypiphora in the W.Himalaya.
As two of our members named the image on the FOI site they are in a much better
position to comment further, especially as I do not recognise these images or
the one from the Paddar Valley but the images do not come close to me.
Just noticed that an article on Research Gate, see:
https://www.researchgate.net/ publication/272383552_The_
genus_Saussurea_Compositae_ Cardueae_in_China_Taxonomic_
and_nomenclatural_notes states that S.sorocephala var. glabrata is raised to
specific rank as S.inversa. Stewart had S.sorocephala Schrenk as a synonym of
S.gnaphalodes (which is common in Laadkh); he thought this variety seemed to be
the same as S.hypsipeta Diels (yet does not list this species in his Catalogue)
and probably should be considered only to be a glabrate form. Saussurea
hypsipeta is listed by Dickore & Klimes from Ladakh - there is an excellent
image of it by our member Miroslav: http://www.butbn.cas.cz/
ladakh/fotky/flora/subnival_ eng.html.
Clearly, Miroslav may be able to comment in a more informed way than me. ---
from Chris Chadwell ji. |
| To me it appears close to Saussurea glacialis Herder as per image herein. |
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Narendra Joshi <narend...@gmail.com>
Date: 6 October 2016 at 22:48
Subject: [efloraofindia:253131] Kailash-Manasarovar Yatra::Saussurea inversa
NSJ-OCT 16/11
To: indiantreepix <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>
Dear All,
Saussurea inversa for validation. Photo taken just after crossing Lipulekh pass
(China border) on Aug 27, 2016. Height approx 15000 feet.
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With Regards,
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