Re: [INDOLOGY] High Court order and Collection of Kashmir Shaivite manuscripts in Archive.org

2024-12-23 Thread Harry Spier via INDOLOGY 
Dear everyone,
Several clarifications.
1) The order to the NMM came not from the High Court but from the Central
Information Commission.
https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/attachments/20211101/51e9d91d/attachment.pdf
2) My reason for bringing this up was to find out if this order from the
Central Information Commission ordering the NMM to put its digitized
manuscripts in the public domain, also means that if one has NMM digitized
manuscripts in their possession, then these are in the public domain and
can be published.

Thanks,
Harry Spier

Harry Spier


On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 1:52 PM Harry Spier 
wrote:

> Mrinal Kaul wrote:
>
>>
>> I am not aware of the high court (which high court ?) order you are
>> talking about,
>>
>
> See this thread from Nov. 1, 2021  from Dhaval Patel
> https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/2021-November/055418.html
> with the high court order attached.
>
> In  particular the high court order directs NMM to put the digitized
> manuscripts (roughly 3 lacs) in public domain within a period  of 1 year.
>
> Thanks,
> Harry Spier
>

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Re: [INDOLOGY] High Court order and Collection of Kashmir Shaivite manuscripts in Archive.org

2024-12-23 Thread Harry Spier via INDOLOGY 
Mrinal Kaul wrote:

>
> I am not aware of the high court (which high court ?) order you are
> talking about,
>

See this thread from Nov. 1, 2021  from Dhaval Patel
https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/2021-November/055418.html
with the high court order attached.

In  particular the high court order directs NMM to put the digitized
manuscripts (roughly 3 lacs) in public domain within a period  of 1 year.

Thanks,
Harry Spier

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Re: [INDOLOGY] High Court order and Collection of Kashmir Shaivite manuscripts in Archive.org

2024-12-23 Thread Mrinal Kaul via INDOLOGY 
Dear Harry,

The Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts (IGNCA), under the leadership of 
Dr Kapila Vatsyayan, began microfilming several large manuscript repositories 
in India (functioning either under the central or the state governments). 
However, with technological advancement, it was gradually realised that digital 
colour scans of manuscript images were a better option (and more useful for 
scholars to work on). In the meantime, NMM was born within IGNCA in early 2000. 
Since their inception, NMM has made unceasing efforts towards scanning almost 
all public manuscript repositories in India and documented a large number of 
private collections as well. Of course, NMM keeps copies of these records, and 
the respective repositories are also given digitalised copies. One can access 
these digital images on a payment basis (as stipulated by authorities of the 
respective repositories) either from the archives/libraries where they are 
located or from the IGNCA in New Delhi (IGNCA follows its own rules). In either 
case, one needs permission from the original repository authorities. If one 
requires access to the digital manuscript images from the IGNCA in New Delhi, 
permission from the original repository/archives/library is necessary according 
to the MoUs signed between the IGNCA and the various repositories. 

Since most of these repositories are digitalised by NMM, they all bear an NMM 
metadata page as the last image, with the details filled in by the NMM staff, 
irrespective of where the digital images are located. So, in the present case, 
the images would be the same regardless of whether the unnamed scholar has had 
access to the digital images from NMM Delhi or ORL Srinagar. Neither NMM nor 
ORL can make this repository (or even a few selected Mss from this repository) 
public on a private/commercial platform like archive.org . 
This is (so far) against their policy, as far as I am aware.

The NMM has been making efforts towards having digital manuscript copies 
available online on their own website, as you pointed out, but they cannot do 
this unless they have permission from the original archives/libraries, which in 
most cases are run by the state governments. This is an extremely complex 
process.

I am not aware of the high court (which high court ?) order you are talking 
about, but clearly, these few Mss made available on archive.org 
 by some unlawful scholar are not because of some high 
court order. This is just for your clarification.

Mrinal  
-
Mrinal Kaul (he/ him/ his)
Assistant Professor of Indian Philosophy
Department of Humanities and Social Sciences (HSS)
Indian Institute of Technology-Bombay (IIT-B)
Powai, Mumbai 400076, INDIA
Tel: +91 22-2576-5349  Extn: 5349 (office)
Tel: +91 22-62513773 (Residence)
email: [email protected] 
https://www.hss.iitb.ac.in/people/faculty/mrinal-kaul 

https://iitbombay.academia.edu/MrinalKaul 

Meeting: meet.google.com/gtj-tdms-tpg 

> On 23-Dec-2024, at 4:38 AM, Harry Spier  wrote:
> 
> Dear list members,
> 
> 1) I've just noticed that the last page of each manuscript is the NMM 
> manuscript data card. If that means the NMM has digitized these manuscripts 
> then thanks to the efforts of Dhaval Patel (as posted on Nov. 21, 2021) the 
> NMM was ordered by the high court to put all its digitized manuscripts in the 
> public domain within 1 year which would include these manuscript images.
> 
> 2) The link https://www.bharatiyakritisampada.nic.in/ 
> 
> used to work to bring you to the search page for manuscripts the NMM had put 
> in the public domain. But it no longer works.
> 
> Does any member know the new link (if there is one) that will bring you to 
> the search page for manuscripts the NMM has put in the public domain?
> 
> Thanks,
> Harry Spier
> 
> From: INDOLOGY  > on behalf of Mrinal Kaul via 
> INDOLOGY mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2024 1:00 PM
> To: Harry Spier mailto:[email protected]>>
> Cc: Indology List  >
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Collection of Kashmir Shaivite manuscripts in 
> Archive.org
>  
> Dear Harry,
> 
> All these Ms are from the collection of the Oriental Research Library 
> (located in Srinagar) of the Jammu and Kashmir Government. Someone who does 
> not want to be identified has accessed the digital copies of these Mss from 
> the ORL, Srinagar, and has made them openly available, clearly defying the 
> library's rules. 
> 
> As much as I have fought with the archives/manuscript libraries across India 
> that scholars should have easy access to manuscript materials, I also respect 
> their rules. I have insisted repeatedly th

[INDOLOGY] High Court order and Collection of Kashmir Shaivite manuscripts in Archive.org

2024-12-22 Thread Harry Spier via INDOLOGY 
Dear list members,

1) I've just noticed that the last page of each manuscript is the NMM
manuscript data card. If that means the NMM has digitized these manuscripts
then thanks to the efforts of Dhaval Patel (as posted on Nov. 21, 2021) the
NMM was ordered by the high court to put all its digitized manuscripts in
the public domain within 1 year which would include these manuscript images.

2) The link https://www.bharatiyakritisampada.nic.in/
used to work to bring you to the search page for manuscripts the NMM had
put in the public domain. But it no longer works.

Does any member know the new link (if there is one) that will bring you to
the search page for manuscripts the NMM has put in the public domain?

Thanks,
Harry Spier

--
> *From:* INDOLOGY  on behalf of
> Mrinal Kaul via INDOLOGY 
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 22, 2024 1:00 PM
> *To:* Harry Spier 
> *Cc:* Indology List 
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Collection of Kashmir Shaivite manuscripts in
> Archive.org
>
> Dear Harry,
>
> All these Ms are from the collection of the Oriental Research Library
> (located in Srinagar) of the Jammu and Kashmir Government. Someone who does
> not want to be identified has accessed the digital copies of these Mss from
> the ORL, Srinagar, and has made them openly available, clearly defying the
> library's rules.
>
> As much as I have fought with the archives/manuscript libraries across
> India that scholars should have easy access to manuscript materials, I also
> respect their rules. I have insisted repeatedly that many of these rules
> need to be changed, but I have no reason to be an outlaw. In fact, many of
> these manuscript libraries have become extremely suspicious or sceptical of
> offering scanned copies of Mss to scholars because they openly violate
> their rules. This case is a clear example of such a violation. The ORL
> authorities have been very generous, but I know the scholars who have taken
> advantage of their generosity and innocence. They have shamelessly violated
> their policies by sharing MS images on Facebook and other social media
> platforms. One should certainly bring this to the notice of the Government
> of Jammu and Kashmir.
>
> Mrinal
> -
> Mrinal Kaul (he/ him/ his)
> Assistant Professor of Indian Philosophy
> Department of Humanities and Social Sciences (HSS)
> Indian Institute of Technology-Bombay (IIT-B)
> Powai, Mumbai 400076, INDIA
> Tel: +91 22-2576-5349  Extn: 5349 (office)
> Tel: +91 22-62513773 (Residence)
> email: [email protected]
> *https://www.hss.iitb.ac.in/people/faculty/mrinal-kaul
> *
> https://iitbombay.academia.edu/MrinalKaul
> Meeting: meet.google.com/gtj-tdms-tpg
>
> On 22-Dec-2024, at 11:05 PM, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> Dear list members,
> I've just come across a collection of 168 Sharada manuscripts of Kashmir
> Shaivite texts
> https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22Mcintosh+Skipper+Roth%22
>
> Does anyone know anything about this collection?  Who posted it, an
> individual named McIntosh Skipper Roth, or is this three individuals.
> Thanks,
> Harry Spier
>
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>
>

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