Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY]

Thank you for this precious information and the responses from Christoph
Rauch.

While the preservation of fragile acetate-based items is a natural
priority, I wonder if
the Oriental Department of the Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin would also
consider including a
policy of digitizing on demand? (Perhaps this is already a policy and I
just don't know about it.)

Best,
Dominik

--
Prof. Dominik Wujastyk
University of Alberta

"The University of Alberta is committed to the pursuit of truth,
the advancement of learning, and the dissemination of knowledge
through teaching, research and other scholarly and creative activities and
service."
-- Collective Agreement

3.01

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Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY]

Christoph Rauch has asked me to pass on the following response:

* * *

Yes, we are in the process of generating third-party funding for 4,000  
films and are also planning to digitise them in-house on a larger scale.


Priority is being given to digitising films with acetate-based  
material. So far, there has been no loss of information on the films,  
but of course this threat exists.



­

Christoph Rauch
Leiter der Orientabteilung
Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin - Preußischer Kulturbesitz -
Potsdamer Str. 33
D-10785 Berlin
Tel +49-(0)30-266 43 5800

https://spk-berlin.webex.com/meet/christoph.rauch
christoph.ra...@sbb.spk-berlin.de

https://orcid.org/-0003-2635-1629
http://staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/

https://www.qalamos.net

https://od-portal.hypotheses.org/


- Nachricht von Harry Spier  -
  Datum: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 17:36:32 -0500
Von: Harry Spier 
Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
 An: Roland Steiner 
 Cc: indology@list.indology.info



Christoph Rauch wrote to Roland Steiner:


. . .A total of more
than 2,000 films have already been digitised. Funding has been secured
for the digitisation of a further 3,000 films. Our service provider
has just picked up 1,000 films today. We are also working intensively
on the question of how to ensure long-term preservation of the digital
copies as well as access to the materials for research purposes . . .



If I'm understanding correctly an earlier posting of Roland Steiner
that:the NGMCP had photographed 9,136 microfilms, does that mean about
1/4  of the total  (1000 films) have already been digitized and funding has
been secured for the digitizing of another 1/3 of the total  (3000 films),
leaving a little less than a half of the total (4000 films) than needs
funding to be digitized?

Thanks,
Harry Spier



- Ende der Nachricht von Harry Spier  -




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Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Harry Spier via INDOLOGY]

Christoph Rauch wrote to Roland Steiner:

> . . .A total of more
> than 2,000 films have already been digitised. Funding has been secured
> for the digitisation of a further 3,000 films. Our service provider
> has just picked up 1,000 films today. We are also working intensively
> on the question of how to ensure long-term preservation of the digital
> copies as well as access to the materials for research purposes . . .
>

If I'm understanding correctly an earlier posting of Roland Steiner
that:the NGMCP had photographed 9,136 microfilms, does that mean about
1/4  of the total  (1000 films) have already been digitized and funding has
been secured for the digitizing of another 1/3 of the total  (3000 films),
leaving a little less than a half of the total (4000 films) than needs
funding to be digitized?

Thanks,
Harry Spier

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Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY]

Christoph Rauch, Head of the Oriental Department of the  
Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin, has asked me to pass on the following  
message:


* * *

Following the discussions in the forum, I would like to briefly  
describe the current status of the NGMPP: The Staatsbibliothek zu  
Berlin has already started digitising the Nepal films. A total of more  
than 2,000 films have already been digitised. Funding has been secured  
for the digitisation of a further 3,000 films. Our service provider  
has just picked up 1,000 films today. We are also working intensively  
on the question of how to ensure long-term preservation of the digital  
copies as well as access to the materials for research purposes. Due  
to the enormous quantity of images, the complexity of the metadata  
situation, the ownership situation and the contractual situation, this  
is naturally not a simple matter. We therefore ask for your patience  
if not all expectations are met at the moment.

We do not restrict the ordering of copies to German citizens only.
The next step will be to import the metadata from NGMCP to Qalamos.
By the way, the metadata from all manuscript catalogues of South Asian  
materials from German institutions are also currently being included  
in this portal, as part of the DFG-funded project "Qalamos".


Best wishes!
Christoph Rauch


Christoph Rauch
Head of the Oriental Department
Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin - Preußischer Kulturbesitz -
Potsdamer Str. 33
D-10785 Berlin
Tel +49-(0)30-266 43 5800
https://spk-berlin.webex.com/meet/christoph.rauch
christoph.ra...@sbb.spk-berlin.de
https://orcid.org/-0003-2635-1629
http://staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/
https://www.qalamos.net 
https://od-portal.hypotheses.org/


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Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Patricia SAUTHOFF]

Fascinating. I just went through my old emails and it appears I began asking in 
late 2013 for manuscripts and eventually received them in October 2014 from 
someone working on the project.

I have submitted a request for the ones I am after through Berlin and they seem 
to have accepted the request. I am just waiting to pay and receive them.

This is great news! I'm only 5 hours flight to Nepal but if I can get them 
digitally that will save me a lot of time and environmental costs.

P

Patricia Sauthoff
司徒 雛菊
Assistant Professor
Department of History
Hong Kong Baptist University

From: INDOLOGY  on behalf of Roland 
Steiner via INDOLOGY 
Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2025 9:03:42 AM
To: indology@list.indology.info 
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

CAUTION! EXTERNAL EMAIL (not being sent from @hkbu email system): Do not click 
links, open attachments, or respond to it unless you trust the email 
source/verify the identity of the sender by other means.





[I apologise for the typo: not "between 1970 and 2021," but "between
1970 and 2001."]

As far as the current state of digitisation is concerned, I can also
report that this week the Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin (Berlin State
Library) will bring a further 2,000 films to its scanning service
provider. To give you an idea of the scope of the filmed material:
Between 1970 and 2001, the NGMPP filmed approximately 180,000
manuscripts and 60,000 historical documents (9,136 microfilms, over
700 slide films and approximately 2,000 framed colour slides).

Regards,
Roland Steiner

-
Mobil: +49-1590 2131342


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Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY]

[I apologise for the typo: not "between 1970 and 2021," but "between  
1970 and 2001."]


As far as the current state of digitisation is concerned, I can also  
report that this week the Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin (Berlin State  
Library) will bring a further 2,000 films to its scanning service  
provider. To give you an idea of the scope of the filmed material:
Between 1970 and 2001, the NGMPP filmed approximately 180,000  
manuscripts and 60,000 historical documents (9,136 microfilms, over  
700 slide films and approximately 2,000 framed colour slides).


Regards,
Roland Steiner

-
Mobil: +49-1590 2131342


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Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY]

As far as the current state of digitisation is concerned, I can also  
report that this week the Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin (Berlin State  
Library) will bring a further 2,000 films to its scanning service  
provider. To give you an idea of the scope of the filmed material:
Between 1970 and 2021, the NGMPP filmed approximately 180,000  
manuscripts and 60,000 historical documents (9,136 microfilms, over  
700 slide films and approximately 2,000 framed colour slides).


Regards,
Roland Steiner


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Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY]

Dear Walter,

Thank you for this valuable update on the state of things.  Knowing the
history of changes, especially in 2014, helps enormously.  It was news to
me.

Best wishes,
Dominik

--
Prof. Dominik Wujastyk
University of Alberta

"The University of Alberta is committed to the pursuit of truth,
the advancement of learning, and the dissemination of knowledge
through teaching, research and other scholarly and creative activities and
service."
-- Collective Agreement

3.01

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Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY]

lms were digitised in 2015 as part of the
>> Heidelberg Academy project “Sources of Religious and Legal History of
>> Pre-Modern Nepal.” The digital copies are stored on the server of the
>> Heidelberg Academy of Sciences and Humanities (HADW) and some of them
>> are accessible on the internet (https://nepalica.hadw-bw.de/nepal/).
>>
>> In the spring of 2023, the Berlin State Library digitised a further
>> 1,000 films (30 TB). After that, about 7,000 films remain to be
>> digitised, and the DMG (Deutsche Morgenländische Gesellschaft, German
>> Oriental Society) will help finance the long-term archiving of the
>> Nepalese films if certain conditions will be met. The DMG is financed
>> entirely by membership fees and receives no government funding.
>> Information on the terms and conditions of DMG membership can be found
>> at
>>
>> https://www.dmg-web.de/page/mitgliedschaft_en
>>
>> Best regards
>> Roland Steiner
>>
>> - Nachricht von Harry Spier via INDOLOGY
>>  -
>>   Datum: Tue, 31 Dec 2024 23:17:46 -0500
>> Von: Harry Spier via INDOLOGY 
>> Antwort an: Harry Spier 
>> Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
>>  An: Patricia SAUTHOFF 
>>  Cc: "INDOLOGY "
>> 
>>
>>
>> > In 2017 I was told by Michael Witzel that some of the original NGMCP
>> > microfilm had already started to deteriorate.  Has all the microfilm
>> been
>> > digitized?
>> > Harry Spier
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 12:34 PM Patricia SAUTHOFF <
>> sauth...@hkbu.edu.hk>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Dear all,
>> >>
>> >> First, thank you to Harry Spier for allowing me to hijack this thread.
>> >>
>> >> This has been an interesting discussion. About 10 years ago myself and
>> my
>> >> German supervisor tried to get manuscript copies from Berlin to no
>> avail. I
>> >> did finally get copies (too late to work with during my PhD) from a
>> former
>> >> researcher with the NGMCP with the warning that I couldn't publish
>> them.
>> >>
>> >> I couldn't access the Berlin order page from Hong Kong but could
>> through
>> >> German, UK, and USA VPNs. I will wait and see what happens. Worst case
>> >> scenario it sounds like a trip to Nepal would be fruitful.
>> >>
>> >> Thank you all for your helpful advice.
>> >> Patricia
>> >>
>> >> Patricia Sauthoff
>> >> 司徒 雛菊
>> >> Assistant Professor
>> >> Department of History
>> >> Hong Kong Baptist University
>> >> --
>> >> *From:* INDOLOGY  on behalf of
>> >> Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY 
>> >> *Sent:* Monday, December 30, 2024 10:16 PM
>> >> *To:* indology@list.indology.info 
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
>> >>
>> >> CAUTION! EXTERNAL EMAIL (not being sent from @hkbu email system): Do
>> not
>> >> click links, open attachments, or respond to it unless you trust the
>> email
>> >> source/verify the identity of the sender by other means.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> In my last message I should have added that, according to the
>> >> currently valid terms of use of the State Library of Berlin, access to
>> >> the holdings of the NGMPP is of course still not subject to any
>> >> restrictions with regard to the nationality of the users:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://webshop.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/english/bedingungen-ngmpp/?___from_store=deutsch
>> >>
>> >> Best regards,
>> >>
>> >> RS
>> >>
>> >> - Nachricht von Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY
>> >>  -
>> >>   Datum: Mon, 30 Dec 2024 14:20:13 +0100
>> >> Von: Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY 
>> >> Antwort an: stei...@staff.uni-marburg.de
>> >> Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
>> >>  An: indology@list.indology.info
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Dear Dominik,
>> >> >
>> >> > In the NGMPP leaflet of 2010 (“VORLäUFIGE Benutzungsordnung des
>> >> > Mikrofilm-Depots”, “PROVISIONAL Usage Regulation

Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY]

I have encountered exactly the same difficulties as those described by
Patricia.  I was once told, in the 90s, perhaps by Emmerick, that members
of the DMG were permitted to have copies of NGMPP MSS from Berlin.  So I
joined the DMG.  Then I wrote to the ST Berlin asking for copies and
received the written answer that DMG membership was not enough: I had to be
a German citizen.  I have had at least half a dozen experiences of this
type.  Even if the actual words are not in the contract - which is
interesting - the widespread practical understanding formally stated by the
STB is that German citizens only may have copies.  Amongst non-Germans,
there is a sort of samizdat system where friendly, helpful German
colleagues will pass on copies under the table.  It's all quite crazy.  And
always with the caveat, "use this for your research, but you can't publish
this."

On the preservation issue.  A colleague using NGMPP manuscripts in Berlin
last summer, just six months ago, was told that the microfilms are indeed
deteriorating rapidly and that it is an urgent matter that they be
digitized.  But the authorities in the library are unwilling to fund a
serious digitization project precisely because the resulting digital images
could not be made generally available to the public.  This is a terrible
situation.

Somebody in an authoritative position in the DMG or the German Ministry of
State for Culture and the Media or the Federal Ministry of Education and
Research needs to take initiative on this matter, if necessary travelling
to Kathmandu and working through senior diplomatic channels, and get this
solved.

Best,
Dominik



--
Prof. Dominik Wujastyk
University of Alberta

"The University of Alberta is committed to the pursuit of truth,
the advancement of learning, and the dissemination of knowledge
through teaching, research and other scholarly and creative activities and
service."
-- Collective Agreement
<https://www.ualberta.ca/human-resources-health-safety-environment/media-library/my-employment/agreements/2020-2024-collective-agreement---working-version.pdf>
3.01



On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 at 07:45, Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY <
indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

> As far as I know, 1,000 films were digitised in 2015 as part of the
> Heidelberg Academy project “Sources of Religious and Legal History of
> Pre-Modern Nepal.” The digital copies are stored on the server of the
> Heidelberg Academy of Sciences and Humanities (HADW) and some of them
> are accessible on the internet (https://nepalica.hadw-bw.de/nepal/).
>
> In the spring of 2023, the Berlin State Library digitised a further
> 1,000 films (30 TB). After that, about 7,000 films remain to be
> digitised, and the DMG (Deutsche Morgenländische Gesellschaft, German
> Oriental Society) will help finance the long-term archiving of the
> Nepalese films if certain conditions will be met. The DMG is financed
> entirely by membership fees and receives no government funding.
> Information on the terms and conditions of DMG membership can be found
> at
>
> https://www.dmg-web.de/page/mitgliedschaft_en
>
> Best regards
> Roland Steiner
>
> - Nachricht von Harry Spier via INDOLOGY
>  -
>   Datum: Tue, 31 Dec 2024 23:17:46 -0500
>     Von: Harry Spier via INDOLOGY 
> Antwort an: Harry Spier 
> Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
>  An: Patricia SAUTHOFF 
>  Cc: "INDOLOGY "
> 
>
>
> > In 2017 I was told by Michael Witzel that some of the original NGMCP
> > microfilm had already started to deteriorate.  Has all the microfilm been
> > digitized?
> > Harry Spier
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 12:34 PM Patricia SAUTHOFF  >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Dear all,
> >>
> >> First, thank you to Harry Spier for allowing me to hijack this thread.
> >>
> >> This has been an interesting discussion. About 10 years ago myself and
> my
> >> German supervisor tried to get manuscript copies from Berlin to no
> avail. I
> >> did finally get copies (too late to work with during my PhD) from a
> former
> >> researcher with the NGMCP with the warning that I couldn't publish them.
> >>
> >> I couldn't access the Berlin order page from Hong Kong but could through
> >> German, UK, and USA VPNs. I will wait and see what happens. Worst case
> >> scenario it sounds like a trip to Nepal would be fruitful.
> >>
> >> Thank you all for your helpful advice.
> >> Patricia
> >>
> >> Patricia Sauthoff
> >> 司徒 雛菊
> >> Assistant Professor
> >> Department of History
> >> Hong Kong Baptist University
> >> --

Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY]

As far as I know, 1,000 films were digitised in 2015 as part of the  
Heidelberg Academy project “Sources of Religious and Legal History of  
Pre-Modern Nepal.” The digital copies are stored on the server of the  
Heidelberg Academy of Sciences and Humanities (HADW) and some of them  
are accessible on the internet (https://nepalica.hadw-bw.de/nepal/).


In the spring of 2023, the Berlin State Library digitised a further  
1,000 films (30 TB). After that, about 7,000 films remain to be  
digitised, and the DMG (Deutsche Morgenländische Gesellschaft, German  
Oriental Society) will help finance the long-term archiving of the  
Nepalese films if certain conditions will be met. The DMG is financed  
entirely by membership fees and receives no government funding.  
Information on the terms and conditions of DMG membership can be found  
at


https://www.dmg-web.de/page/mitgliedschaft_en

Best regards
Roland Steiner

- Nachricht von Harry Spier via INDOLOGY  
 -

 Datum: Tue, 31 Dec 2024 23:17:46 -0500
   Von: Harry Spier via INDOLOGY 
Antwort an: Harry Spier 
   Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
An: Patricia SAUTHOFF 
Cc: "INDOLOGY "  





In 2017 I was told by Michael Witzel that some of the original NGMCP
microfilm had already started to deteriorate.  Has all the microfilm been
digitized?
Harry Spier


On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 12:34 PM Patricia SAUTHOFF 
wrote:


Dear all,

First, thank you to Harry Spier for allowing me to hijack this thread.

This has been an interesting discussion. About 10 years ago myself and my
German supervisor tried to get manuscript copies from Berlin to no avail. I
did finally get copies (too late to work with during my PhD) from a former
researcher with the NGMCP with the warning that I couldn't publish them.

I couldn't access the Berlin order page from Hong Kong but could through
German, UK, and USA VPNs. I will wait and see what happens. Worst case
scenario it sounds like a trip to Nepal would be fruitful.

Thank you all for your helpful advice.
Patricia

Patricia Sauthoff
司徒 雛菊
Assistant Professor
Department of History
Hong Kong Baptist University
--
*From:* INDOLOGY  on behalf of
Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY 
*Sent:* Monday, December 30, 2024 10:16 PM
*To:* indology@list.indology.info 
*Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

CAUTION! EXTERNAL EMAIL (not being sent from @hkbu email system): Do not
click links, open attachments, or respond to it unless you trust the email
source/verify the identity of the sender by other means.





In my last message I should have added that, according to the
currently valid terms of use of the State Library of Berlin, access to
the holdings of the NGMPP is of course still not subject to any
restrictions with regard to the nationality of the users:


https://webshop.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/english/bedingungen-ngmpp/?___from_store=deutsch

Best regards,

RS

- Nachricht von Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY
 -
  Datum: Mon, 30 Dec 2024 14:20:13 +0100
Von: Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY 
Antwort an: stei...@staff.uni-marburg.de
Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
 An: indology@list.indology.info


> Dear Dominik,
>
> In the NGMPP leaflet of 2010 (“VORLäUFIGE Benutzungsordnung des
> Mikrofilm-Depots”, “PROVISIONAL Usage Regulations of the Microfilm
> Depot”), point 2 actually says that “according to the contract
> concluded between the government of the Kingdom of Nepal and the
> Deutsche Morgenländische Gesellschaft [DMG, German Oriental
> Society], copies may only be made for citizens of Germany, Austria
> and Switzerland.”
>
> The above claim that this is stipulated in the contract between the
> Nepalese government and the DMG is simply false. Neither in this
> contract of 16 February 1970 nor in the contract of 24 March 1984
> between the DMG and the Stiftung Preußischer Kulturbesitz (to which
> the State Library of Berlin belongs) is there such a restriction.
> Consequently, it is also missing from the Berlin State Library's
> “Information Sheet for the Use of Manuscripts” (“Merkblatt für die
> Benutzung von Handschriften”) of November 2009 and from the current
> “Terms and Conditions for the Use of the Microfilm Depository
> (NGMPP)” (“Benutzungsordnung des Mikrofilm-Depots [NGMPP]”) of the
> Berlin State Library of March 2014.
>
> It was never intended to be otherwise.
>
> Best regards
> Roland
>
> - Nachricht von Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY
>  -
>  Datum: Sun, 29 Dec 2024 20:23:19 -0700
>    Von: Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY 
> Antwort an: Dominik Wujastyk 
>Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
> An: Indology 
>
>> The original contract between the German

Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Harry Spier via INDOLOGY]

In 2017 I was told by Michael Witzel that some of the original NGMCP
microfilm had already started to deteriorate.  Has all the microfilm been
digitized?
Harry Spier


On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 12:34 PM Patricia SAUTHOFF 
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> First, thank you to Harry Spier for allowing me to hijack this thread.
>
> This has been an interesting discussion. About 10 years ago myself and my
> German supervisor tried to get manuscript copies from Berlin to no avail. I
> did finally get copies (too late to work with during my PhD) from a former
> researcher with the NGMCP with the warning that I couldn't publish them.
>
> I couldn't access the Berlin order page from Hong Kong but could through
> German, UK, and USA VPNs. I will wait and see what happens. Worst case
> scenario it sounds like a trip to Nepal would be fruitful.
>
> Thank you all for your helpful advice.
> Patricia
>
> Patricia Sauthoff
> 司徒 雛菊
> Assistant Professor
> Department of History
> Hong Kong Baptist University
> --
> *From:* INDOLOGY  on behalf of
> Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY 
> *Sent:* Monday, December 30, 2024 10:16 PM
> *To:* indology@list.indology.info 
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
>
> CAUTION! EXTERNAL EMAIL (not being sent from @hkbu email system): Do not
> click links, open attachments, or respond to it unless you trust the email
> source/verify the identity of the sender by other means.
>
>
>
>
>
> In my last message I should have added that, according to the
> currently valid terms of use of the State Library of Berlin, access to
> the holdings of the NGMPP is of course still not subject to any
> restrictions with regard to the nationality of the users:
>
>
> https://webshop.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/english/bedingungen-ngmpp/?___from_store=deutsch
>
> Best regards,
>
> RS
>
> - Nachricht von Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY
>  -----
>   Datum: Mon, 30 Dec 2024 14:20:13 +0100
> Von: Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY 
> Antwort an: stei...@staff.uni-marburg.de
> Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
>  An: indology@list.indology.info
>
>
> > Dear Dominik,
> >
> > In the NGMPP leaflet of 2010 (“VORLäUFIGE Benutzungsordnung des
> > Mikrofilm-Depots”, “PROVISIONAL Usage Regulations of the Microfilm
> > Depot”), point 2 actually says that “according to the contract
> > concluded between the government of the Kingdom of Nepal and the
> > Deutsche Morgenländische Gesellschaft [DMG, German Oriental
> > Society], copies may only be made for citizens of Germany, Austria
> > and Switzerland.”
> >
> > The above claim that this is stipulated in the contract between the
> > Nepalese government and the DMG is simply false. Neither in this
> > contract of 16 February 1970 nor in the contract of 24 March 1984
> > between the DMG and the Stiftung Preußischer Kulturbesitz (to which
> > the State Library of Berlin belongs) is there such a restriction.
> > Consequently, it is also missing from the Berlin State Library's
> > “Information Sheet for the Use of Manuscripts” (“Merkblatt für die
> > Benutzung von Handschriften”) of November 2009 and from the current
> > “Terms and Conditions for the Use of the Microfilm Depository
> > (NGMPP)” (“Benutzungsordnung des Mikrofilm-Depots [NGMPP]”) of the
> > Berlin State Library of March 2014.
> >
> > It was never intended to be otherwise.
> >
> > Best regards
> > Roland
> >
> > - Nachricht von Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY
> >  -
> >  Datum: Sun, 29 Dec 2024 20:23:19 -0700
> >Von: Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY 
> > Antwort an: Dominik Wujastyk 
> >Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
> > An: Indology 
> >
> >> The original contract between the German Research Society and the
> >> Nepalese authorities stipulated that copies of microfilms had to be
> >> purchased directly from the National Archives in Kathmandu.  The
> >> one exception to this was that copies of the films were available
> >> in Berlin, where German nationals could consult them and have
> >> copies.  That's the contract and it has not been renegotiated.
> >> Many of us have wrestled with all this for many decades.
> >>
> >>If anything different from this is happening then it is the
> >> result of an altruistic gesture by someone in favour of supporting
> >> non-nationalistic scholarship, which is lovely.  But it's not a
> >> result of a change in the

Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Patricia SAUTHOFF]

Dear all,

First, thank you to Harry Spier for allowing me to hijack this thread.

This has been an interesting discussion. About 10 years ago myself and my 
German supervisor tried to get manuscript copies from Berlin to no avail. I did 
finally get copies (too late to work with during my PhD) from a former 
researcher with the NGMCP with the warning that I couldn't publish them.

I couldn't access the Berlin order page from Hong Kong but could through 
German, UK, and USA VPNs. I will wait and see what happens. Worst case scenario 
it sounds like a trip to Nepal would be fruitful.

Thank you all for your helpful advice.
Patricia

Patricia Sauthoff
司徒 雛菊
Assistant Professor
Department of History
Hong Kong Baptist University

From: INDOLOGY  on behalf of Roland 
Steiner via INDOLOGY 
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2024 10:16 PM
To: indology@list.indology.info 
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

CAUTION! EXTERNAL EMAIL (not being sent from @hkbu email system): Do not click 
links, open attachments, or respond to it unless you trust the email 
source/verify the identity of the sender by other means.





In my last message I should have added that, according to the
currently valid terms of use of the State Library of Berlin, access to
the holdings of the NGMPP is of course still not subject to any
restrictions with regard to the nationality of the users:

https://webshop.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/english/bedingungen-ngmpp/?___from_store=deutsch

Best regards,

RS

- Nachricht von Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY
 -
  Datum: Mon, 30 Dec 2024 14:20:13 +0100
Von: Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY 
Antwort an: stei...@staff.uni-marburg.de
    Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
 An: indology@list.indology.info


> Dear Dominik,
>
> In the NGMPP leaflet of 2010 (“VORLäUFIGE Benutzungsordnung des
> Mikrofilm-Depots”, “PROVISIONAL Usage Regulations of the Microfilm
> Depot”), point 2 actually says that “according to the contract
> concluded between the government of the Kingdom of Nepal and the
> Deutsche Morgenländische Gesellschaft [DMG, German Oriental
> Society], copies may only be made for citizens of Germany, Austria
> and Switzerland.”
>
> The above claim that this is stipulated in the contract between the
> Nepalese government and the DMG is simply false. Neither in this
> contract of 16 February 1970 nor in the contract of 24 March 1984
> between the DMG and the Stiftung Preußischer Kulturbesitz (to which
> the State Library of Berlin belongs) is there such a restriction.
> Consequently, it is also missing from the Berlin State Library's
> “Information Sheet for the Use of Manuscripts” (“Merkblatt für die
> Benutzung von Handschriften”) of November 2009 and from the current
> “Terms and Conditions for the Use of the Microfilm Depository
> (NGMPP)” (“Benutzungsordnung des Mikrofilm-Depots [NGMPP]”) of the
> Berlin State Library of March 2014.
>
> It was never intended to be otherwise.
>
> Best regards
> Roland
>
> - Nachricht von Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY
>  -
>  Datum: Sun, 29 Dec 2024 20:23:19 -0700
>Von: Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY 
> Antwort an: Dominik Wujastyk 
>Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
> An: Indology 
>
>> The original contract between the German Research Society and the
>> Nepalese authorities stipulated that copies of microfilms had to be
>> purchased directly from the National Archives in Kathmandu.  The
>> one exception to this was that copies of the films were available
>> in Berlin, where German nationals could consult them and have
>> copies.  That's the contract and it has not been renegotiated.
>> Many of us have wrestled with all this for many decades.
>>
>>If anything different from this is happening then it is the
>> result of an altruistic gesture by someone in favour of supporting
>> non-nationalistic scholarship, which is lovely.  But it's not a
>> result of a change in the original terms of the contract.
>>
>>Best,
>>Dominik
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Prof. Dominik Wujastyk
>>  University of Alberta
>>
>>  "The University of Alberta is committed to the pursuit of truth,
>>  the advancement of learning, and the dissemination of knowledge
>>  through teaching, research and other scholarly and creative
>> activities and service."
>>  -- Collective Agreement[1] 3.01
>>
>
> - Ende der Nachricht von Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY
>  -
>
>
>
> Links:
> --
> [1]
> https://www.ualberta.ca/human-resources-health-safety-environment/m

Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY]

In my last message I should have added that, according to the  
currently valid terms of use of the State Library of Berlin, access to  
the holdings of the NGMPP is of course still not subject to any  
restrictions with regard to the nationality of the users:


https://webshop.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/english/bedingungen-ngmpp/?___from_store=deutsch

Best regards,

RS

- Nachricht von Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY  
 -

 Datum: Mon, 30 Dec 2024 14:20:13 +0100
   Von: Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY 
Antwort an: stei...@staff.uni-marburg.de
   Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
An: indology@list.indology.info



Dear Dominik,
 
In the NGMPP leaflet of 2010 (“VORLäUFIGE Benutzungsordnung des  
Mikrofilm-Depots”, “PROVISIONAL Usage Regulations of the Microfilm  
Depot”), point 2 actually says that “according to the contract  
concluded between the government of the Kingdom of Nepal and the  
Deutsche Morgenländische Gesellschaft [DMG, German Oriental  
Society], copies may only be made for citizens of Germany, Austria  
and Switzerland.”

 
The above claim that this is stipulated in the contract between the  
Nepalese government and the DMG is simply false. Neither in this  
contract of 16 February 1970 nor in the contract of 24 March 1984  
between the DMG and the Stiftung Preußischer Kulturbesitz (to which  
the State Library of Berlin belongs) is there such a restriction.  
Consequently, it is also missing from the Berlin State Library's  
“Information Sheet for the Use of Manuscripts” (“Merkblatt für die  
Benutzung von Handschriften”) of November 2009 and from the current  
“Terms and Conditions for the Use of the Microfilm Depository  
(NGMPP)” (“Benutzungsordnung des Mikrofilm-Depots [NGMPP]”) of the  
Berlin State Library of March 2014.

 
It was never intended to be otherwise.
 
Best regards
Roland

- Nachricht von Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY  
 -

     Datum: Sun, 29 Dec 2024 20:23:19 -0700
       Von: Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY 
Antwort an: Dominik Wujastyk 
   Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
        An: Indology 

The original contract between the German Research Society and the  
Nepalese authorities stipulated that copies of microfilms had to be  
purchased directly from the National Archives in Kathmandu.  The  
one exception to this was that copies of the films were available  
in Berlin, where German nationals could consult them and have  
copies.  That's the contract and it has not been renegotiated.   
Many of us have wrestled with all this for many decades.

    
   If anything different from this is happening then it is the  
result of an altruistic gesture by someone in favour of supporting  
non-nationalistic scholarship, which is lovely.  But it's not a  
result of a change in the original terms of the contract.

    
   Best,
   Dominik

  
 --
 Prof. Dominik Wujastyk
 University of Alberta
  
 "The University of Alberta is committed to the pursuit of truth, 
 the advancement of learning, and the dissemination of knowledge 
 through teaching, research and other scholarly and creative  
activities and service."

 -- Collective Agreement[1] 3.01
  


- Ende der Nachricht von Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY  
 -




Links:
--
[1]  
https://www.ualberta.ca/human-resources-health-safety-environment/media-library/my-employment/agreements/2020-2024-collective-agreement---working-version.pdf

 --

Prof. Dr. Roland Steiner
Fachgebiet Indologie und Tibetologie
FB 10 der Philipps-Universitaet
Deutschhausstr. 12
35032 Marburg (Briefanschrift / for letters)
35037 Marburg (Paketanschrift / for parcels)
Germany
E-Mail: stei...@uni-marburg.de
https://www.uni-marburg.de/de/fb10/iksl/faecher/indologie/fachgebiet/personen



- Ende der Nachricht von Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY  
 -





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Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY]

 Dear Dominik,
 
In the NGMPP leaflet of 2010 (“VORLäUFIGE Benutzungsordnung des  
Mikrofilm-Depots”, “PROVISIONAL Usage Regulations of the Microfilm  
Depot”), point 2 actually says that “according to the contract  
concluded between the government of the Kingdom of Nepal and the  
Deutsche Morgenländische Gesellschaft [DMG, German Oriental Society],  
copies may only be made for citizens of Germany, Austria and  
Switzerland.”

 
The above claim that this is stipulated in the contract between the  
Nepalese government and the DMG is simply false. Neither in this  
contract of 16 February 1970 nor in the contract of 24 March 1984  
between the DMG and the Stiftung Preußischer Kulturbesitz (to which  
the State Library of Berlin belongs) is there such a restriction.  
Consequently, it is also missing from the Berlin State Library's  
“Information Sheet for the Use of Manuscripts” (“Merkblatt für die  
Benutzung von Handschriften”) of November 2009 and from the current  
“Terms and Conditions for the Use of the Microfilm Depository (NGMPP)”  
(“Benutzungsordnung des Mikrofilm-Depots [NGMPP]”) of the Berlin State  
Library of March 2014.

 
It was never intended to be otherwise.
 
Best regards
Roland

- Nachricht von Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY  
 -

     Datum: Sun, 29 Dec 2024 20:23:19 -0700
       Von: Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY 
Antwort an: Dominik Wujastyk 
   Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
        An: Indology 

The original contract between the German Research Society and the  
Nepalese authorities stipulated that copies of microfilms had to be  
purchased directly from the National Archives in Kathmandu.  The one  
exception to this was that copies of the films were available in  
Berlin, where German nationals could consult them and have copies.   
That's the contract and it has not been renegotiated.  Many of us  
have wrestled with all this for many decades.

 
If anything different from this is happening then it is the  
result of an altruistic gesture by someone in favour of supporting  
non-nationalistic scholarship, which is lovely.  But it's not a  
result of a change in the original terms of the contract.

 
Best,
Dominik

   
  --
  Prof. Dominik Wujastyk
  University of Alberta
   
  "The University of Alberta is committed to the pursuit of truth, 
  the advancement of learning, and the dissemination of knowledge 
  through teaching, research and other scholarly and creative  
activities and service."

  -- Collective Agreement[1] 3.01
   


- Ende der Nachricht von Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY  
 -




Links:
--
[1]  
https://www.ualberta.ca/human-resources-health-safety-environment/media-library/my-employment/agreements/2020-2024-collective-agreement---working-version.pdf

 --

Prof. Dr. Roland Steiner
Fachgebiet Indologie und Tibetologie
FB 10 der Philipps-Universitaet
Deutschhausstr. 12
35032 Marburg (Briefanschrift / for letters)
35037 Marburg (Paketanschrift / for parcels)
Germany
E-Mail: stei...@uni-marburg.de
https://www.uni-marburg.de/de/fb10/iksl/faecher/indologie/fachgebiet/personen

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Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Westin Harris via INDOLOGY]

Thanks for the clarity, Dominik.

Huzzah for altruism -- lovely indeed! :)


*Sincerely,*

*Westin Harris*
Ph.D. Candidate
Study of Religion
University of California, Davis
https://religionsgrad.ucdavis.edu/people/westin-harris


2021 Dissertation Fellow,
The Robert H. N. Ho Family Foundation Program in Buddhist Studies

Sarva Mangalam.


On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 7:23 PM Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

> The original contract between the German Research Society and the Nepalese
> authorities stipulated that copies of microfilms had to be purchased
> directly from the National Archives in Kathmandu.  The one exception to
> this was that copies of the films were available in Berlin, where German
> nationals could consult them and have copies.  That's the contract and it
> has not been renegotiated.  Many of us have wrestled with all this for many
> decades.
>
> If anything different from this is happening then it is the result of an
> altruistic gesture by someone in favour of supporting non-nationalistic
> scholarship, which is lovely.  But it's not a result of a change in the
> original terms of the contract.
>
> Best,
> Dominik
>
>
> --
> Prof. Dominik Wujastyk
> University of Alberta
>
> "The University of Alberta is committed to the pursuit of truth,
> the advancement of learning, and the dissemination of knowledge
> through teaching, research and other scholarly and creative activities and
> service."
> -- Collective Agreement
> 
> 3.01
>
>
>
> ___
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology
>

___
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INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
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Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY]

The original contract between the German Research Society and the Nepalese
authorities stipulated that copies of microfilms had to be purchased
directly from the National Archives in Kathmandu.  The one exception to
this was that copies of the films were available in Berlin, where German
nationals could consult them and have copies.  That's the contract and it
has not been renegotiated.  Many of us have wrestled with all this for many
decades.

If anything different from this is happening then it is the result of an
altruistic gesture by someone in favour of supporting non-nationalistic
scholarship, which is lovely.  But it's not a result of a change in the
original terms of the contract.

Best,
Dominik


--
Prof. Dominik Wujastyk
University of Alberta

"The University of Alberta is committed to the pursuit of truth,
the advancement of learning, and the dissemination of knowledge
through teaching, research and other scholarly and creative activities and
service."
-- Collective Agreement

3.01

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Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Westin Harris via INDOLOGY]

Dear Harry,

I cannot speak on behalf of the Library's rules as I am not affiliated in
any official way.

But speaking from personal experience, I am an American doctoral candidate
living alternatively between California and Kathmandu and I have had no
problems ordering digital copies through the Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin. In
fact, several years ago before they created the online webshop, one
previously had to email a librarian directly to request a copy. Back then,
when I first reached out to establish a relationship with one of the
librarians, I even stated clearly in my introductory email that I am an
American grad student and she made zero objections.

*Sincerely,*

*Westin Harris*
Ph.D. Candidate
Study of Religion
University of California, Davis
https://religionsgrad.ucdavis.edu/people/westin-harris


2021 Dissertation Fellow,
The Robert H. N. Ho Family Foundation Program in Buddhist Studies

Sarva Mangalam.


On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 3:33 PM Harry Spier 
wrote:

> Westin wrote:
>
>> , but *nearly the entire NGMPP/NGMCP collection is accessible through
>> the Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin* -- and *What's more, you can promptly
>> order digital copies online without having to visit the library*.
>>
>
> I had previously been told that only German or Austrian nationals could
> order copies. For the digital copies can anyone in any country order online
> copies.
>
> Harry Spier
>
>>

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Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Harry Spier via INDOLOGY]

Westin wrote:

> , but *nearly the entire NGMPP/NGMCP collection is accessible through the
> Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin* -- and *What's more, you can promptly order
> digital copies online without having to visit the library*.
>

I had previously been told that only German or Austrian nationals could
order copies. For the digital copies can anyone in any country order online
copies.

Harry Spier

>

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Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Westin Harris via INDOLOGY]

Dear Patricia and Indologists,

The archives in Kathmandu are notoriously slow, especially post-COVID. I
have had the most success when I physically visit the Archives myself (or
have a friend do so on my behalf if I am outside of Nepal). However, the
prices are still quite high for digital copies and the turnaround can take
weeks or months.

It seems that many of my friends are not aware of this, but *nearly the
entire NGMPP/NGMCP collection is accessible through the Staatsbibliothek zu
Berlin* -- and with faster turnaround and cheaper prices, no less! They
even have some of the X series microfilms that are not available in
Kathmandu. *What's more, you can promptly order digital copies online
without having to visit the library*.

*To request a digital copy of an NGMCP microfilm through the Berlin
Library, follow this protocol*:

   1. Find the NGMCP microfilm number using the online catalogues here:
   https://catalogue.ngmcp.uni-hamburg.de//content/index.xml
   2. Visit the "Imaging and Duplication Services" page of the
   Berlin Library website and click "Ordering a Digital Copy":
   
https://staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/en/service/imaging-and-duplication-services
   3. It will take you to this form, which you must fill out by clearly
   indicating that the text is an NGMCP microfilm and providing the microfilm
   number:
   https://webshop.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/english/sbb_enquiry/request/
 - For "Shelfmark" I usually write "NGMCP microfilm no. --"
 - For "Sum of Pages" put the folio count provided in the catalogue
 - Be sure to set the "Fee Level" to "Scans of Microfilms"
   4. In a few days, a librarian will reach out to you with the official
   cost of the digital copy and will ask you to log into the library's online
   portal to pay the fee (once you create an account, the invoice will already
   be in your "Shopping Cart" so you just have to click "Checkout").
   5. Once the fee is paid, the librarians will promptly prepare a digital
   copy (usually within days; weeks at maximum)
   6. When your digital copy is ready you will get an email notification
   informing you that you can access and download the document by logging into
   the library's online portal (where you paid for the invoice)

Enjoy :)

*Sincerely,*

*Westin Harris*
Ph.D. Candidate
Study of Religion
University of California, Davis
https://religionsgrad.ucdavis.edu/people/westin-harris
<https://religions.ucdavis.edu/people/westin-harris>

2021 Dissertation Fellow,
The Robert H. N. Ho Family Foundation Program in Buddhist Studies

Sarva Mangalam.


On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 5:48 AM Patricia SAUTHOFF 
wrote:

> The Nepal archives uses W for Newari. I assume NGMCP uses the
> same format.
> http://narchives.gov.np/List.aspx
>
> On a related note, if anyone has any advice on accessing the archives in
> Kathmandu I would appreciate it. I’ve emailed them about 4 manuscripts in
> the collection which have been digitized but haven’t hear back about
> gaining access or digital copies.
>
> Patricia Sauthoff
> 司徒 雛菊
> Assistant Professor
> Department of History
> Hong Kong Baptist University
> --
> *From:* INDOLOGY  on behalf of
> Westin Harris via INDOLOGY 
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 29, 2024 9:57 AM
> *To:* Harry Spier 
> *Cc:* indology@list.indology.info 
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.
>
> CAUTION! EXTERNAL EMAIL (not being sent from @hkbu email system): Do not
> click links, open attachments, or respond to it unless you trust the email
> source/verify the identity of the sender by other means.
>
>
> Dear Harry and Indologists,
>
> If it is in the context of the "scripts" category, then W refers to
> "Newari" script. However, in a previous thread we already established that
> "Newari" (along with Nepalaksara, etc.) comprises a range of different
> scripts (Bhujimol, Pracalit, etc.).
>
> I had a cheat sheet for abbreviations somewhere. I'll look for it and post
> it here unless someone gets to it before me.
>
> Happy holidays.
>
> *Sincerely,*
>
> *Westin Harris*
> Ph.D. Candidate
> Study of Religion
> University of California, Davis
> https://religionsgrad.ucdavis.edu/people/westin-harris
> <https://religions.ucdavis.edu/people/westin-harris>
>
> 2021 Dissertation Fellow,
> The Robert H. N. Ho Family Foundation Program in Buddhist Studies
>
> Sarva Mangalam.
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 9:54 AM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
> indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear list members,
>> What script does "W" stand for in NGMCP catalogue entries.
>> Is there a link to a page that lists the abbre

Re: [INDOLOGY] Abbreviations in NGMCP catalogue entries.

[Westin Harris via INDOLOGY]

Dear Harry and Indologists,

If it is in the context of the "scripts" category, then W refers to
"Newari" script. However, in a previous thread we already established that
"Newari" (along with Nepalaksara, etc.) comprises a range of different
scripts (Bhujimol, Pracalit, etc.).

I had a cheat sheet for abbreviations somewhere. I'll look for it and post
it here unless someone gets to it before me.

Happy holidays.

*Sincerely,*

*Westin Harris*
Ph.D. Candidate
Study of Religion
University of California, Davis
https://religionsgrad.ucdavis.edu/people/westin-harris


2021 Dissertation Fellow,
The Robert H. N. Ho Family Foundation Program in Buddhist Studies

Sarva Mangalam.


On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 9:54 AM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear list members,
> What script does "W" stand for in NGMCP catalogue entries.
> Is there a link to a page that lists the abbreviations used in NGMCP
> catalogue entries.
>
> Thanks,
> Harry Spier
>
> ___
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> INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology
>

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