> (IMHO is the max. line lenght in emails 4000 characters.)
RFC 2821 sec 4.5.3.1 says the max length is 1000 characters including
the two CR LF characters.
However if the MTA fixes this, Cyrus won't see it. Sendmail for example
breaks long lines at 997 characters and inserts ! CR LF.
Joseph B
with one of our customers.
>>> When he forwards an email with the thunderbird email client (windows
>>> version), the lmtp-daemon on my cyrus-imapd (v2.3.13) rejects those
>>> emails with the error "554 5.6.0 Message contains NUL characters".
>>> ...ok,
-imapd (v2.3.13) rejects those
> > emails with the error "554 5.6.0 Message contains NUL characters".
> > ...ok, that's clear, there are "NUL" characters in the email.
> >
> > But I would show my customer, where the "NUL" c
SIBLE SPAM***** Message contains NUL characters - howto dump?
Hello,
I have a problem with one of our customers.
When he forwards an email with the thunderbird email client (windows version),
the lmtp-daemon on my cyrus-imapd (v2.3.13) rejects those emails with the error
"554 5.6.0 Message contains
Hello,
I have a problem with one of our customers.
When he forwards an email with the thunderbird email client (windows version),
the lmtp-daemon on my cyrus-imapd (v2.3.13) rejects those emails with the error
"554 5.6.0 Message contains NUL characters".
...ok, that's clear,
Hi,
> relay=/raid1/imapconfig/socket/lmtp[/imap
> config/socket/lmtp], delay=0, status=bounced
> (host /imapconfig/socket/lmtp[/raid1/imapconfig/socket/lmtp] said: 554
> 5.6.0 Message contains NUL characters (in reply to end of DATA command))
>
> Is there an option to tell the
On Jun 15, 2006, at 7:51 AM, Sebastian Reitenbach wrote:
Is there an option to tell the imapd to be not so picky about RFC's
and accept
messages with NUL character?
Cyrus is not just "being picky" here. The IMAP RFC is very clear
about not accepting or transmitting the NUL character. See
Hi all,
I have a problem with receiving some mails from our partners, for some reason
I get this message:
relay=/raid1/imapconfig/socket/lmtp[/imap
config/socket/lmtp], delay=0, status=bounced
(host /imapconfig/socket/lmtp[/raid1/imapconfig/socket/lmtp] said: 554 5.6.0
Message contains NUL
For the record, this problem is not just caused by viruses and spam.
Where I work, some of our customers are in Japan and China. I have
examples of messages sent via Outlook/Exchange in Japanese and Chinese
which include embedded NUL characters. Rejecting these messages is
simply not an option f
[ On Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 09:38:03 (+0200), John Fawcett wrote: ]
> Subject: Re: Message contains NUL characters ...
>
> I meant they are not readable in cyrus: at least not without my
> patch :-)
Well to be even more pedantic, they're not storable by Cyrus.
Were they t
Greg A. Woods wrote:
> [ On Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 00:30:46 (+0200), John Fawcett wrote: ]
>
>>Subject: Re: Message contains NUL characters ...
>>
>>nothing actually breaks by removing the nuls. The messges weren't
>>readable before and may not be readable
[ On Thursday, May 12, 2005 at 00:30:46 (+0200), John Fawcett wrote: ]
> Subject: Re: Message contains NUL characters ...
>
> nothing actually breaks by removing the nuls. The messges weren't
> readable before and may not be readable afterwards.
You cannot know that they were not
Greg A. Woods wrote:
> [ On Tuesday, May 10, 2005 at 22:33:43 (+0200), John Fawcett wrote: ]
>
>>Subject: Re: Message contains NUL characters ...
>>
>>by the way, while looking into the code to do the patch, I saw that
>>cyrus already carries out some modifications t
[ On Tuesday, May 10, 2005 at 22:33:43 (+0200), John Fawcett wrote: ]
> Subject: Re: Message contains NUL characters ...
>
> by the way, while looking into the code to do the patch, I saw that
> cyrus already carries out some modifications to messages (example
> removing bare \r and
Aleksandar Milivojevic --> info-cyrus (2005-05-11 10:43:06 -0500):
> John Fawcett wrote:
>
> >by the way, while looking into the code to do the patch, I saw that
> >cyrus already carries out some modifications to messages (example
> >removing bare \r and replacing bare \n with \r\n) so there is a
John Fawcett wrote:
by the way, while looking into the code to do the patch, I saw that
cyrus already carries out some modifications to messages (example
removing bare \r and replacing bare \n with \r\n) so there is a
precedent.
Original Cyrus sources, or RedHat/Fedora SRPMs? I might be wrong
(wo
Douglas K. Fischer wrote:
John Fawcett wrote:
| Greg A. Woods wrote:
|
|> Stripping NUL bytes modifies the message and that's a _REALLY
|> BAD_ thing to do. It is infinitely better to reject than to
|> arbitrarily modify the message in a destructive manner.
|
|
| Maybe I misunderstood earlier post
Douglas K. Fischer wrote:
> John Fawcett wrote:
>
> | Greg A. Woods wrote:
> |
> |> Stripping NUL bytes modifies the message and that's a _REALLY
> |> BAD_ thing to do. It is infinitely better to reject than to
> |> arbitrarily modify the message in a destructive manner.
> |
> |
> | Maybe I misun
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
John Fawcett wrote:
| Greg A. Woods wrote:
|
|> Stripping NUL bytes modifies the message and that's a _REALLY
|> BAD_ thing to do. It is infinitely better to reject than to
|> arbitrarily modify the message in a destructive manner.
|
|
| Maybe I misund
[ On Monday, May 9, 2005 at 20:51:09 (+0200), John Fawcett wrote: ]
> Subject: Re: Message contains NUL characters ...
>
> as I understand it's the nuls in the header/body checks which
> are not supported, not the presence of a nul in the message which
> prevents header/body
Greg A. Woods wrote:
> [ On Sunday, May 8, 2005 at 21:35:58 (+0200), John Fawcett wrote: ]
>
>>I am very happy with postfix!
>
>
> Apparently Postfix suffers a design flaw in that its internal dictionary
> lookup API uses NUL-terminated strings so it is not possible for it to
> easily use any r
[ On Sunday, May 8, 2005 at 21:35:58 (+0200), John Fawcett wrote: ]
> Subject: Re: Message contains NUL characters ...
>
> the reason is that at the moment I can have nuls rejected by cyrus
> and potentially bounced to some innocent third party in the case
> of forged sender address
--On May 9, 2005 8:38:48 AM +0200 John Fawcett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Postfix may be compiled with support for PCRE reqular expressions.
Use PCRE in body_check, header_checks to detect and reject NULs.
that's not possible at the moment, unless postfix has changed in
the meantime. See for exampl
John Fawcett wrote:
Andrzej Adam Filip wrote:
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Sun, 8 May 2005, Greg A. Woods wrote:
If you can't re-configure or fix your MTA to reject messages that
contain NUL bytes (in either the headers or body -- it's all the same to
SMTP), then get a better mailer
Any idea o
Andrzej Adam Filip wrote:
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 8 May 2005, Greg A. Woods wrote:
>>
>>> If you can't re-configure or fix your MTA to reject messages that
>>> contain NUL bytes (in either the headers or body -- it's all the same to
>>> SMTP), then get a better mailer
>>
>>
>>
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Sun, 8 May 2005, Greg A. Woods wrote:
If you can't re-configure or fix your MTA to reject messages that
contain NUL bytes (in either the headers or body -- it's all the same to
SMTP), then get a better mailer
Any idea on how wto set this up with postix?
Postfix may
On Sun, 8 May 2005, Greg A. Woods wrote:
If you can't re-configure or fix your MTA to reject messages that
contain NUL bytes (in either the headers or body -- it's all the same to
SMTP), then get a better mailer
Any idea on how wto set this up with postix?
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Or
Greg A. Woods wrote:
> I don't know why you guys keep beating against this. There's nothing
> wrong with Cyrus and nothing that needs changing in Cyrus.
the reason is that at the moment I can have nuls rejected by cyrus
and potentially bounced to some innocent third party in the case
of forged s
[ On Sunday, May 8, 2005 at 11:44:23 (+0200), John Fawcett wrote: ]
> Subject: Re: Message contains NUL characters ...
>
> One further point: what about nuls in message headers?
> As far as I can see spool_copy_msg() handles the body.
> So it doesn't seem that lmtp messa
John Fawcett wrote:
>
> I think the correct place to strip nuls is:
> spool.c: spool_copy_msg
>
> To be consistent should this change also be made to:
> message.c: message_copy_strict
>
> Any other ideas or comments which would help with making a patch?
>
> thanks
> John
I've taken a look at t
Igor Brezac wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, John Fawcett wrote:
Anyone know whether a patch for cyrus to strip out nuls would be
welcome?
Make it clean, and optional (as in either reject the message, or
remove the
NULs...), and I don't see why n
On Mon, 02 May 2005, John Fawcett wrote:
> If I am correct in this interpretation, an MTA which passes them on to
> Cyrus (ie did not generate them but did accept them) is behaving
> correctly?
Of course not. Forwarding and sending are the same thing. The MTA has to
strip NULs (IMHO anyway).
--
David R Bosso wrote:
> --On Thursday, April 28, 2005 4:13 PM -0400 Joseph Brennan
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> --On Thursday, April 28, 2005 16:22 -0300 "Marc G. Fournier"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Someone mentioned that this was, in fact, not forbid'd in the RFCs ...
>>>
Igor Brezac wrote:
>
> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Igor Brezac wrote:
>>
>>> They do not need to be patched, just configured correctly.
>>
>>
>> Please elaborate?
>
>
> Someone just mentioned that for postfix you can setup a content filter.
> For sendm
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, David R Bosso wrote:
>
>>So as before, it's illegal to send them.
>
>
> Which means the MTAs have to accept *and strip* them, as forwading is just
> an subcase of sending, IMHO.
>
> Now, if the requirements for a spool (MDA) are the same
It's pretty easy to stop messages with null characters if you use
Mimedefang, a milter. A built-in function called SuspiciousCharsInBody
tags messages with either nulls or bare CR or LF. We've let this go
but since we're testing a Cyrus server it looked like we should
stop them coming in.
We star
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, David R Bosso wrote:
> So as before, it's illegal to send them.
Which means the MTAs have to accept *and strip* them, as forwading is just
an subcase of sending, IMHO.
Now, if the requirements for a spool (MDA) are the same as those for a MTA,
then Cyrus must accept and strip
--On Thursday, April 28, 2005 4:13 PM -0400 Joseph Brennan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
--On Thursday, April 28, 2005 16:22 -0300 "Marc G. Fournier"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Someone mentioned that this was, in fact, not forbid'd in the RFCs ...
could you point to the relevant RFC where it is?
Andrew Morgan wrote:
Maybe I need to read back in this thread to remember, but what was the
suggested solution in Cyrus?
I think Cyrus is correct to bounce these messages back to the sender.
Accepting them seems somewhat dangerous. What happens when parts of
Cyrus or the IMAP protocol see a NU
--On Thursday, April 28, 2005 4:22 PM -0300 "Marc G. Fournier"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Someone mentioned that this was, in fact, not forbid'd in the RFCs ...
could you point to the relevant RFC where it is? Considering how
'strict' postfix seems to be, having an RFC to back that up might show
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> >You don't seem to get it. The RFCs forbid NULs. What Cyrus is rejecting
> >may be anything, but an email it is not.
>
> Someone mentioned that this was, in fact, not forbid'd in the RFCs ...
Derrick J Brashear wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
But we really need to do something about the also non-RFC compliant crap
that sends too-big lines as well, cyrus screws up when breaking those
lines.
Is that bug completely fixed yet?
No. If you have a suggestion fo
--On Thursday, April 28, 2005 16:22 -0300 "Marc G. Fournier"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Someone mentioned that this was, in fact, not forbid'd in the RFCs ...
could you point to the relevant RFC where it is? Considering how
'strict' postfix seems to be, having an RFC to back that up might show
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Igor Brezac wrote:
They do not need to be patched, just configured correctly.
Please elaborate?
Someone just mentioned that for postfix you can setup a content filter.
For sendmail, add '1' to your mailer flags. It is pretty simple
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Amos wrote:
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
The correct place to do it is in the MTA. Doing it in the MTA means you
get
the trash out before anything else has a chance to bounce it back, log it,
store it, or whatever.
Which doesn't mean I would be against a good patch for
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Igor Brezac wrote:
They do not need to be patched, just configured correctly.
Please elaborate?
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
---
Cyrus Home Page: ht
On Thu, 2005-04-28 at 14:57 -0400, Igor Brezac wrote:
> > that not every delivery agent/message store will reject NULs
> > so there is no need for the MTA to strip them out.
>
> So cyrus should also be broken?
I don't know if it's fair to say they're broken; conventional wisdom
says "be strict i
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Amos wrote:
Maybe *ideally* it needs to be fixed by the MTA. However, just casually
following this list and the postfix-users list, whenever the issue of NUL
characters have come up, it has always been centered around Cyrus. I know
that there are folks using Postfix with oth
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, John Fawcett wrote:
postfix can do it with a content filter. I just wondered whether
there was any chance of a patch being accepted in cyrus?
I mean that would address the problem at it's root instead of
working round it i
On Thu, Apr 28, 2005 at 03:14:22PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> Which doesn't mean I would be against a good patch for Cyrus, but I would
> rather the MTAs started either fixing or rejecting all such crap worldwide.
> If exim, sendmail and postfix rejected broken messages, that would
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
The correct place to do it is in the MTA. Doing it in the MTA means you get
the trash out before anything else has a chance to bounce it back, log it,
store it, or whatever.
Which doesn't mean I would be against a good patch for Cyrus, but I would
rather the MTAs
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, John Fawcett wrote:
Igor Brezac wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, John Fawcett wrote:
Anyone know whether a patch for cyrus to strip out nuls would be
welcome?
Make it clean, and optional (as in either reject the message, or
re
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, John Fawcett wrote:
> postfix can do it with a content filter. I just wondered whether
> there was any chance of a patch being accepted in cyrus?
>
> I mean that would address the problem at it's root instead of
> working round it in n different MTAs.
You don't seem to get it
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
But we really need to do something about the also non-RFC compliant crap
that sends too-big lines as well, cyrus screws up when breaking those lines.
Is that bug completely fixed yet?
No. If you have a suggestion for how to do it without touch
Igor Brezac wrote:
>
> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, John Fawcett wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone know whether a patch for cyrus to strip out nuls would be
>>> welcome?
>>
>>
>> Make it clean, and optional (as in either reject the message, or
>> remove the
Igor Brezac wrote:
>
> On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, John Fawcett wrote:
>
>> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, John Fawcett wrote:
>>>
Sometimes I check what I'm discarding and only remember seeing spam.
That could explain the upward trend in these messages (in line with
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, John Fawcett wrote:
Anyone know whether a patch for cyrus to strip out nuls would be
welcome?
Make it clean, and optional (as in either reject the message, or remove the
NULs...), and I don't see why not. The default woul
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, John Fawcett wrote:
> Anyone know whether a patch for cyrus to strip out nuls would be
> welcome?
Make it clean, and optional (as in either reject the message, or remove the
NULs...), and I don't see why not. The default would need to be reject,
though.
But we really need to
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, John Fawcett wrote:
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, John Fawcett wrote:
Sometimes I check what I'm discarding and only remember seeing spam.
That could explain the upward trend in these messages (in line with
the general increase in spam), although I've not seen th
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, John Fawcett wrote:
>
>> Sometimes I check what I'm discarding and only remember seeing spam.
>> That could explain the upward trend in these messages (in line with
>> the general increase in spam), although I've not seen that and have
>> too small nu
On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, John Fawcett wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, Michael Sims wrote:
Sometimes I check what I'm discarding and only remember seeing spam.
That could explain the upward trend in these messages (in line with
the general increase in spam), although I've not seen that and have
too small n
ay=273190, status=bounced (host
>>> /var/run/socket/lmtp[/var/run/socket/lmtp] said: 554 5.6.0 Message
>>> contains NUL characters (in reply to end of DATA command))
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is a FAQ (although it appears not to be in the actual FAQ or t
essage
contains NUL characters (in reply to end of DATA command))
Hi,
This is a FAQ (although it appears not to be in the actual FAQ or the
wiki...). Basically you want to configure your MTA so that NULs are stripped
before the messages containing them are passed to LMTP. Check the archives
(wat
Derrick J Brashear wrote:
Well, there's also the possibility as we discussed in October that your
mta is passing (too) long (to be compliant) lines to cyrus, and the
logic doesn't distinguish and prints the same error.
FYI, WebCT (Campus Edition) also triggers this problem.
If an instructor has
essage
contains NUL characters (in reply to end of DATA command))
Hi,
This is a FAQ (although it appears not to be in the actual FAQ or the
wiki...). Basically you want to configure your MTA so that NULs are stripped
before the messages containing them are passed to LMTP. Check the archives
(wat
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> Apr 24 15:29:02 hub postfix/lmtp[54800]: 0367A1298D0:
> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, relay=/var/run/socket/lmtp[/var/run/socket/lmtp],
> delay=273190, status=bounced (host
> /var/run/socket/lmtp[/var/run/socket/lmtp] said: 554 5.6.0 Message
> contains NUL
, I removed
spamcheck from the process, but then the error changes to:
Apr 24 15:29:02 hub postfix/lmtp[54800]: 0367A1298D0: to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
relay=/var/run/socket/lmtp[/var/run/socket/lmtp], delay=273190, status=bounced (host
/var/run/socket/lmtp[/var/run/socket/lmtp] said: 554 5.6.0 Mes
Andrew Dietz wrote:
Naturally, I am inclined to allow messages with NUL characters to be
delivered, as bouncing legitimate messages to unsuspecting, technically
unsavvy senders is not an option.
How can I have Cyrus ignore NUL characters in messages?
You'd probably need to edit Cyrus source code an
)
when I attempted to forward it. The error that consistently displayed was:
ERROR : Could not append message to INBOX/Sent.
Server responded: Message contains NUL characters
The message has a MIME attachment of type text/html, and upon inspecting the
file, discovered that it had been created with
On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, Amos wrote:
Was there any follow-up to this?
Related to this unpleasant issue that gets repeatedly kicked around between
this list and postfix-users, with an unpleasant amount of disdain I might
add, has anybody implemented a hack to Cyrus lmptd to optionally reject such
mess
Was there any follow-up to this?
Related to this unpleasant issue that gets repeatedly kicked around
between this list and postfix-users, with an unpleasant amount of
disdain I might add, has anybody implemented a hack to Cyrus lmptd to
optionally reject such messages, or delete these NUL charac
Hi,
my mailsystem is a comibination of exim (4.42) and cyrus (2.2.8). To
prevent cyrus from getting mails with NUL characters, i have configured
exim so that it refuses such kind of mails.
Occasionaly some mails went through exim, but were classified as
containing NUL characters by cyrus. These mai
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004, Akihiro KAYAMA wrote:
I want to receive them, because:
1. old rfc822(not 2822) does not forbid to use NUL chars. Many MTAs
and MDAs can deal with NUL chars without complaining. I don't want
to explain the details why I can't receive mails which others can
receive.
Since I
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004, Akihiro KAYAMA wrote:
> I want to receive them, because:
[...]
> And I know NUL chars are nightmare for applications which use ANSI-C
> string functions. I suggest a feature getting rid of NUL chars with
> warning log when the server receives mails.
Tell the MTA to strip the N
Akihiro KAYAMA wrote:
> And I know NUL chars are nightmare for applications which use ANSI-C
> string functions. I suggest a feature getting rid of NUL chars with
> warning log when the server receives mails.
If you are running Sendmail or Exim as your MTA you can configure it to
strip the NUL cha
; > if there is something available to get rid of these
rjs3> >
rjs3> > 554 Message contains NUL characters (in
rjs3> > reply to end of DATA command)
rjs3> >
rjs3> > bounces, meanwhile?
rjs3>
rjs3> These messages are badly formed and cannot be received su
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004, Olaf Lautenschlaeger wrote:
after seeing that this problem has been discussed
(a few weeks ago) but not solved, I'd like to ask
if there is something available to get rid of these
554 Message contains NUL characters (in
reply to end of DATA command)
bounces, mean
Hi there,
after seeing that this problem has been discussed
(a few weeks ago) but not solved, I'd like to ask
if there is something available to get rid of these
554 Message contains NUL characters (in
reply to end of DATA command)
bounces, meanwhile?
Though this appears to be caus
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Rafel Amer wrote:
> /var/lib/cyrus/socket/lmtp[/var/lib/cyrus/socket/lmtp] said: 554 5.6.0
> Message contains NUL characters (in reply to end of DATA command))
>
> Does anybody know how I can solve this problem?
> Get your MTA to strip NULs
On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 03:02, Rafel Amer wrote:
> Message contains NUL characters (in reply to end of DATA command))
>
> Does anybody know how I can solve this problem?
Fix the mail client? Perhaps an updated version of Outlook might help.
What version of Outlook are you using? Altern
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Rafel Amer wrote:
> /var/lib/cyrus/socket/lmtp[/var/lib/cyrus/socket/lmtp] said: 554 5.6.0
> Message contains NUL characters (in reply to end of DATA command))
>
> Does anybody know how I can solve this problem?
Get your MTA to strip NULs from "mess
/cyrus/socket/lmtp], delay=1,
status=bounced (host
/var/lib/cyrus/socket/lmtp[/var/lib/cyrus/socket/lmtp] said: 554 5.6.0
Message contains NUL characters (in reply to end of DATA command))
Does anybody know how I can solve this problem?
Thanks.
R. Amer
---
Home Page: http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyru
Hi,
We have had conversations about this before and I know there is tr/\000//
workaround for it in the MTA-side (However I don't know efficient way for
this since filtering would run tr in all messages and that is not very
efficient).
Somebody said there was a patch for it which was "safe" - true
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