> On Nov 30, 2018, at 2:57 PM, Tom Herbert wrote:
>
> ...student writing a quick UDP app in their dorm room to have to consider
> all the pitfalls of fragmentation and whether they need to increase
> their complexity by an order of magnitude to implement fragmentation
> in their application.
On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 12:39 PM Fred Baker wrote:
>
>
>
> On Nov 30, 2018, at 11:12 AM, Tom Herbert wrote:
> > It's pretty obvious that fragmentation isn't currently feasible on the
> > open Internet, but for other environments, like the datacenter, it may
> > not only be relevant but desirable
On Nov 30, 2018, at 11:12 AM, Tom Herbert wrote:
> It's pretty obvious that fragmentation isn't currently feasible on the
> open Internet, but for other environments, like the datacenter, it may
> not only be relevant but desirable compared to other solutions.
>
> While the draft doesn't
On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:43 AM Ron Bonica wrote:
>
> Inline..
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Tom Herbert
> > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 2:13 PM
> > To: Ron Bonica
> > Cc: Ole Troan ; Joe Touch
> > ; int-area
> > Subject
Inline..
> -Original Message-
> From: Tom Herbert
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 2:13 PM
> To: Ron Bonica
> Cc: Ole Troan ; Joe Touch
> ; int-area
> Subject: Re: [Int-area] draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-03
>
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 9:57 AM Ron
> Ron
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ole Troan
> > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 12:46 PM
> > To: Joe Touch
> > Cc: Christian Huitema ; Ron Bonica
> > ; int-area
> > Subject: Re: [Int-area] draft-i
On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 9:55 AM Joe Touch wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 30, 2018, at 9:46 AM, Ole Troan wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 30 Nov 2018, at 18:33, Joe Touch wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Nov 30, 2018, at 9:22 AM, Ole Troan wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> On 30 Nov 2018, at 16:49, Joe Touch
.
Ron
> -Original Message-
> From: Ole Troan
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 12:46 PM
> To: Joe Touch
> Cc: Christian Huitema ; Ron Bonica
> ; int-area
> Subject: Re: [Int-area] draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-03
>
>
>
> > On 30
> On Nov 30, 2018, at 9:46 AM, Ole Troan wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 30 Nov 2018, at 18:33, Joe Touch wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 30, 2018, at 9:22 AM, Ole Troan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
On 30 Nov 2018, at 16:49, Joe Touch wrote:
1) the lower down the fragmentation occurs, the less
> On 30 Nov 2018, at 18:33, Joe Touch wrote:
>
>
>
>> On Nov 30, 2018, at 9:22 AM, Ole Troan wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 30 Nov 2018, at 16:49, Joe Touch wrote:
>>>
>>> 1) the lower down the fragmentation occurs, the less overhead is needed
>>> (i.e., when performance is an issue, it’s
> On Nov 30, 2018, at 9:22 AM, Ole Troan wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 30 Nov 2018, at 16:49, Joe Touch wrote:
>>
>> 1) the lower down the fragmentation occurs, the less overhead is needed
>> (i.e., when performance is an issue, it’s even more important to fragment as
>> low as possible)
>
> That
> On 30 Nov 2018, at 16:49, Joe Touch wrote:
>
> 1) the lower down the fragmentation occurs, the less overhead is needed
> (i.e., when performance is an issue, it’s even more important to fragment as
> low as possible)
That sounds like an unfounded myth.
I would think it highly dependent
), Fred L ; Ron Bonica
> ; int-area
> Subject: Re: [Int-area] draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-03
>
>
> If what you say were true, then we should all run everything over UDP and
> skip TCP. There are two reasons to the contrary:
>
> 1) the lower down the fragmentation o
On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 7:42 AM Christian Huitema wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 30, 2018, at 7:25 AM, Templin (US), Fred L
> > wrote:
> >
> > Right, we have talked about that. A disadvantage is that the application
> > framing headers need to be repeated in each UDP datagram, and when
> > the
If what you say were true, then we should all run everything over UDP and skip
TCP. There are two reasons to the contrary:
1) the lower down the fragmentation occurs, the less overhead is needed (i.e.,
when performance is an issue, it’s even more important to fragment as low as
possible)
2)
> On Nov 30, 2018, at 7:25 AM, Templin (US), Fred L
> wrote:
>
> Right, we have talked about that. A disadvantage is that the application
> framing headers need to be repeated in each UDP datagram, and when
> the application headers are large the amount of room left for actual data
> is
Hi Christian,
> -Original Message-
> From: Christian Huitema [mailto:huit...@huitema.net]
> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 3:41 PM
> To: Templin (US), Fred L ; Fred Baker
>
> Cc: Ron Bonica ; int-area
> Subject: Re: [Int-area] draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-03
On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 3:41 PM Christian Huitema wrote:
>
> On 11/29/2018 1:05 PM, Templin (US), Fred L wrote:
>
> > iperf3 is a real Internet application in the same way that ping, traceroute,
> > tcpdump, etc. are real applications. It is a well-known tool that network
> > engineers use on a
On 11/29/2018 1:05 PM, Templin (US), Fred L wrote:
> iperf3 is a real Internet application in the same way that ping, traceroute,
> tcpdump, etc. are real applications. It is a well-known tool that network
> engineers use on a daily basis and demonstrates that UDP performance
> is highly
> On Nov 29, 2018, at 11:02 AM, Templin (US), Fred L
> wrote:
>
> If you are referring to iperf3, that is exactly what it does (uses
> fragmentation
> to generate a high data rate), but I would not call it "artificial" -
> fragmentation
> is a real Internet service.
But iperf3 is a
18 1:08 PM
> To: Joe Touch ; Stewart Bryant
>
> Cc: Ron Bonica ; int-area ;
> intarea-cha...@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Int-area] draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-03
>
>
>
> Hi, regardless of how old and obsolete NFSv2 is, the text in RFC1094 perfectly
>
> addresses t
ce in the above, they were referring to the DELQA.
> >
> > Fred
> >
> > From: Ron Bonica [mailto:rbon...@juniper.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 10:27 AM
> > To: Templin (US), Fred L ; Joe Touch
> > ; Stewart Bryant
>
> > Cc: int-area
: Ron Bonica [mailto:rbon...@juniper.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 10:27 AM
To: Templin (US), Fred L ; Joe Touch
; Stewart Bryant
Cc: int-area ; intarea-cha...@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Int-area] draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-03
Fred,
Without being too abrupt, there were
I would hope it would be evident from context, but sure.
Joe
> On Nov 29, 2018, at 8:37 AM, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>
>
> Either way it is useful to give the reviewer a heads up as to nits giving
> errors and this being OK.
>
> S
>
>> On 29/11/2018 14:42, Joe Touch wrote:
>> They don’t need
Either way it is useful to give the reviewer a heads up as to nits
giving errors and this being OK.
S
On 29/11/2018 14:42, Joe Touch wrote:
They don’t need to be deleted if you include them deliberately. There
is no prohibition on citing such RFCs for your own documents
historical
To: Stewart Bryant
Cc: Ron Bonica ; int-area ;
intarea-cha...@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Int-area] draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-03
They don’t need to be deleted if you include them deliberately. There is no
prohibition on citing such RFCs for your own documents historical background.
Joe
They don’t need to be deleted if you include them deliberately. There is no
prohibition on citing such RFCs for your own documents historical background.
Joe
> On Nov 29, 2018, at 4:06 AM, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>
> But, always worth including a "do be deleted" note to the reviewers to stop
>
But, always worth including a "do be deleted" note to the reviewers to
stop then all sending in feedback about the nits failure.
Stewart
On 27/11/2018 20:42, Joe Touch wrote:
FWIW:
On 2018-11-27 12:22, Ron Bonica wrote:
Fred,
If the NFSv2 and iPERF issues are not blocking, I would like
FWIW:
On 2018-11-27 12:22, Ron Bonica wrote:
> Fred,
>
> If the NFSv2 and iPERF issues are not blocking, I would like to omit them.
> The following are rational:
>
> ...
> - Mechanically, it is difficult to reference an RFC that has been obsoleted
> in an internet draft. The NIT checker
Ron
> -Original Message-
> From: Templin (US), Fred L
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 2:57 PM
> To: Ron Bonica ; Tom Herbert
>
> Cc: int-area ; intarea-cha...@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Int-area] draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-03
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> &g
Hi Ron,
> In your mind, are these blocking issues?
I don’t have an opinion about “blocking”, but IMHO the recommendations
contribute to the completeness of the document.
Thanks - Fred
___
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
Fred,
In your mind, are these blocking issues?
Ron
From: Templin (US), Fred L
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 1:47 PM
To: Ron Bonica ; Tom Herbert
Cc: int-area ; intarea-cha...@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Int-area] draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-03
?
Thanks - Fred
From: Ron Bonica [mailto:rbon...@juniper.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 10:03 AM
To: Tom Herbert ; Templin (US), Fred L
Cc: int-area ; intarea-cha...@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Int-area] draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-03
Fred,
I am happy to add a section about LTP. However, I
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin
> > (US), Fred L
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2018 8:47 AM
> > To: Ron Bonica ; int-area ;
> > intarea-cha...@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [Int-ar
On Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 8:47 AM Templin (US), Fred L <
fred.l.temp...@boeing.com> wrote:
> Hi Ron,
>
> There needs to be a new subsection in Section 6 on UDP applications that
> rely on IP fragmentation for greater performance. Here is proposed text:
>
> "Some UDP applications rely on IP
(US),
> Fred L
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2018 8:47 AM
> To: Ron Bonica ; int-area ;
> intarea-cha...@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Int-area] draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-03
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> There needs to be a new subsection in Section 6 on UDP applications
Hi Ron,
There needs to be a new subsection in Section 6 on UDP applications that
rely on IP fragmentation for greater performance. Here is proposed text:
"Some UDP applications rely on IP fragmentation to achieve acceptable levels
of performance. These applications use UDP datagram sizes that
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