Re: [Keelynet] [SPAM] Re: New variant of Eternal engine.
I asked a steam engineer friend and he said you could use a purpose built steam nozzle like they use in industry for the injectors. Also, without looking it up he said he was fairly certain that the increase in volume when the water flashed was something like 22,000 times not the 2000 something that was mentioned. I have a file where one person mentioned using stainless steel rings and I believe he said rods that apparently can be purchased at speed shops. I am skeptical though, because I had a problem with water in the oil in the pan once and I can't see how you would solve the problem of water eventually contaminating your oil due to blow-by. The oil becomes sticky when water and heat are introduced and will blow your motor real quick. In industry when corrosion protection is needed they normally coat with nickel and the process for that is inexpensive. Marshall Dudley wrote: No, they will corrode in a matter of days making them useless. They also require the diesel fuel for lubrication. My son got some bad diesel for a brand new Jeep Liberty Diesel that had some water in it, and destroyed all 4 of his injectors, they were not even able to clean them up to get them working again. The warantee did not cover it, and new injectors cost him $400 each. Marshall Ron Hammar wrote: Hi, I think some of the new diesel fuel injectors have a psi of around 3000 psi. Could something like this be use for the water? Ron - Original Message - From: Mitch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Interact interact@listserv.capital-master.com Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 3:12 AM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Keelynet] New variant of Eternal engine. O.K. Jerry, I'll take a crack at this. It appears that this guy is talking about a simple steam engine. He rightly says that water under various pressures boils at different temperatures, and is telling us how his engine works. He uses super heated water to 800 degrees c. which is under extreme pressure, and therefore still in a liquid state, as the sole source of pressure in the piston. When the piston is just beyond top dead center, probably 2 degrees, the superheated water is injected into the cylinder. Now that the water is in the piston, the pressure variable has changed, and the water literally 'explodes' into steam, expanding itself 1673 times its liquid volume, which then creates tremendous pressure within the cylinder, forcing the piston to move, and running the engine. After the steam has done it's work, and as the piston returns to top dead center, a valve opens and allows the steam to return to a closed loop system for recycling back into the piston, thereby reducing the energy required to heat the water, because the steam is returning to, and helping to keep hot, the water reservoir. This differs from a normal steam engine in only one respect; in a normal motor, the boiler makes the steam, and the steam that is in the boiler is under pressure, and this pressure is common to the boiler and piston. There is no 'explosive force', because once the water turns to steam, that is the only pressure used. Also a normal steam engine does not usually recycle the heat. In Vasily's motor, superheated water goes into the cylinder, and then expands. Actually, this engine should be much more efficient than a normal engine, but I don't see any over-unity here, because there sill has to be a heat source for the water. But, It looks like he says that as the steam 'explodes', it somehow helps to heat the water for the next cycle. How it would do that, I don't know. Also, I have to wonder, if there was a given amount of water that exactly filled it's sealed container, and this was heated to 1800 degrees Fahrenheit, what would the pressure on the container be? The water, while not allowed to expand into steam, would remain liquid, but surely the pressures would be tremendous, and require some real power to pump in more water to keep the reservoir full. Mitch - Original Message - From: Jerry Decker - KN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Interact interact@listserv.capital-master.com Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [Keelynet] New variant of Eternal engine. Hola Vasily et al! I am posting this to our list to see if there is any feedback, thanks! http://www.mail-archive.com/interact%40listserv.capital-master.com/maillist.html Vasily Bezukladnikov wrote: - In diesel the air (in following cycles in the cylinder instead of air will be already the steam) heat up by compression to 800 *C. Injected water at first will cool hot air, which will be compressed from cooling by cool water, it will facilitate the further squeeze of air by piston. At diminishing of temperature on one degree of Celsius any gas decreases on 1/273 part of volume. The water warms up from hot jammed
Re: [Keelynet] [SPAM] Re: New variant of Eternal engine.
HI Mike, To deal with the water in the oil you can use Synthetic Oil in the motor because the water will vaparates when it gets hot and will not bond with the oil like crude oil does. Ron in Redding Mike McMahon wrote: I asked a steam engineer friend and he said you could use a purpose built steam nozzle like they use in industry for the injectors. Also, without looking it up he said he was fairly certain that the increase in volume when the water flashed was something like 22,000 times not the 2000 something that was mentioned. I have a file where one person mentioned using stainless steel rings and I believe he said rods that apparently can be purchased at speed shops. I am skeptical though, because I had a problem with water in the oil in the pan once and I can't see how you would solve the problem of water eventually contaminating your oil due to blow-by. The oil becomes sticky when water and heat are introduced and will blow your motor real quick. In industry when corrosion protection is needed they normally coat with nickel and the process for that is inexpensive. Marshall Dudley wrote: No, they will corrode in a matter of days making them useless. They also require the diesel fuel for lubrication. My son got some bad diesel for a brand new Jeep Liberty Diesel that had some water in it, and destroyed all 4 of his injectors, they were not even able to clean them up to get them working again. The warantee did not cover it, and new injectors cost him $400 each. Marshall Ron Hammar wrote: Hi, I think some of the new diesel fuel injectors have a psi of around 3000 psi. Could something like this be use for the water? Ron - Original Message - From: Mitch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Interact interact@listserv.capital-master.com Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 3:12 AM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Keelynet] New variant of Eternal engine. O.K. Jerry, I'll take a crack at this. It appears that this guy is talking about a simple steam engine. He rightly says that water under various pressures boils at different temperatures, and is telling us how his engine works. He uses super heated water to 800 degrees c. which is under extreme pressure, and therefore still in a liquid state, as the sole source of pressure in the piston. When the piston is just beyond top dead center, probably 2 degrees, the superheated water is injected into the cylinder. Now that the water is in the piston, the pressure variable has changed, and the water literally 'explodes' into steam, expanding itself 1673 times its liquid volume, which then creates tremendous pressure within the cylinder, forcing the piston to move, and running the engine. After the steam has done it's work, and as the piston returns to top dead center, a valve opens and allows the steam to return to a closed loop system for recycling back into the piston, thereby reducing the energy required to heat the water, because the steam is returning to, and helping to keep hot, the water reservoir. This differs from a normal steam engine in only one respect; in a normal motor, the boiler makes the steam, and the steam that is in the boiler is under pressure, and this pressure is common to the boiler and piston. There is no 'explosive force', because once the water turns to steam, that is the only pressure used. Also a normal steam engine does not usually recycle the heat. In Vasily's motor, superheated water goes into the cylinder, and then expands. Actually, this engine should be much more efficient than a normal engine, but I don't see any over-unity here, because there sill has to be a heat source for the water. But, It looks like he says that as the steam 'explodes', it somehow helps to heat the water for the next cycle. How it would do that, I don't know. Also, I have to wonder, if there was a given amount of water that exactly filled it's sealed container, and this was heated to 1800 degrees Fahrenheit, what would the pressure on the container be? The water, while not allowed to expand into steam, would remain liquid, but surely the pressures would be tremendous, and require some real power to pump in more water to keep the reservoir full. Mitch - Original Message - From: Jerry Decker - KN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Interact interact@listserv.capital-master.com Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [Keelynet] New variant of Eternal engine. Hola Vasily et al! I am posting this to our list to see if there is any feedback, thanks! http://www.mail-archive.com/interact%40listserv.capital-master.com/maillist.html Vasily Bezukladnikov wrote: - In diesel the air (in following cycles in the cylinder instead of air will be already the steam) heat up by compression to 800 *C. Injected water at first will cool hot air, which will be compressed from cooling by cool water, it will facilitate the further squeeze of air by piston. At diminishing of temperature on one degree of Celsius any gas
Re: [Keelynet] [SPAM] Re: New variant of Eternal engine.
Hi Marshal, That is one interesting story. I have run diesel Ford 350, 7.3L cube van for some 8 years. As a newbie at the time, I have encountered a problem with water in the fuel and this problem has shown itself only as filling the water diesel separator (in the fuel line) filling with water to the point when the engine runs no more, i.e. does not start one of these nice days. If anything takes the pistons out in the diesel engine, it is gasoline. Top up the diesel engine with that stuff and bye bye pistons. I wonder if the bad diesel fuel you mentioned was not actually quite good gasoline. My kind regards, Slavek. Marshall Dudley wrote: No, they will corrode in a matter of days making them useless. They also require the diesel fuel for lubrication. My son got some bad diesel for a brand new Jeep Liberty Diesel that had some water in it, and destroyed all 4 of his injectors, they were not even able to clean them up to get them working again. The warantee did not cover it, and new injectors cost him $400 each. Marshall Ron Hammar wrote: Hi, I think some of the new diesel fuel injectors have a psi of around 3000 psi. Could something like this be use for the water? Ron - Original Message - From: Mitch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Interact interact@listserv.capital-master.com Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 3:12 AM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Keelynet] New variant of Eternal engine. O.K. Jerry, I'll take a crack at this. It appears that this guy is talking about a simple steam engine. He rightly says that water under various pressures boils at different temperatures, and is telling us how his engine works. He uses super heated water to 800 degrees c. which is under extreme pressure, and therefore still in a liquid state, as the sole source of pressure in the piston. When the piston is just beyond top dead center, probably 2 degrees, the superheated water is injected into the cylinder. Now that the water is in the piston, the pressure variable has changed, and the water literally 'explodes' into steam, expanding itself 1673 times its liquid volume, which then creates tremendous pressure within the cylinder, forcing the piston to move, and running the engine. After the steam has done it's work, and as the piston returns to top dead center, a valve opens and allows the steam to return to a closed loop system for recycling back into the piston, thereby reducing the energy required to heat the water, because the steam is returning to, and helping to keep hot, the water reservoir. This differs from a normal steam engine in only one respect; in a normal motor, the boiler makes the steam, and the steam that is in the boiler is under pressure, and this pressure is common to the boiler and piston. There is no 'explosive force', because once the water turns to steam, that is the only pressure used. Also a normal steam engine does not usually recycle the heat. In Vasily's motor, superheated water goes into the cylinder, and then expands. Actually, this engine should be much more efficient than a normal engine, but I don't see any over-unity here, because there sill has to be a heat source for the water. But, It looks like he says that as the steam 'explodes', it somehow helps to heat the water for the next cycle. How it would do that, I don't know. Also, I have to wonder, if there was a given amount of water that exactly filled it's sealed container, and this was heated to 1800 degrees Fahrenheit, what would the pressure on the container be? The water, while not allowed to expand into steam, would remain liquid, but surely the pressures would be tremendous, and require some real power to pump in more water to keep the reservoir full. Mitch - Original Message - From: Jerry Decker - KN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Interact interact@listserv.capital-master.com Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [Keelynet] New variant of Eternal engine. Hola Vasily et al! I am posting this to our list to see if there is any feedback, thanks! http://www.mail-archive.com/interact%40listserv.capital-master.com/maillist.html Vasily Bezukladnikov wrote: - In diesel the air (in following cycles in the cylinder instead of air will be already the steam) heat up by compression to 800 *C. Injected water at first will cool hot air, which will be compressed from cooling by cool water, it will facilitate the further squeeze of air by piston. At diminishing of temperature on one degree of Celsius any gas decreases on 1/273 part of volume. The water warms up from hot jammed air, but pressing of environment of the cylinder hampers a boiling of water, though already at temperature 372 *C all water accepts a gaseous phase independently from the further growth of pressure. Pressure, p (Atm.) 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Re: [Keelynet] [SPAM] Re: New variant of Eternal engine.
Hi, I think some of the new diesel fuel injectors have a psi of around 3000 psi. Could something like this be use for the water? Ron - Original Message - From: Mitch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Interact interact@listserv.capital-master.com Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 3:12 AM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Keelynet] New variant of Eternal engine. O.K. Jerry, I'll take a crack at this. It appears that this guy is talking about a simple steam engine. He rightly says that water under various pressures boils at different temperatures, and is telling us how his engine works. He uses super heated water to 800 degrees c. which is under extreme pressure, and therefore still in a liquid state, as the sole source of pressure in the piston. When the piston is just beyond top dead center, probably 2 degrees, the superheated water is injected into the cylinder. Now that the water is in the piston, the pressure variable has changed, and the water literally 'explodes' into steam, expanding itself 1673 times its liquid volume, which then creates tremendous pressure within the cylinder, forcing the piston to move, and running the engine. After the steam has done it's work, and as the piston returns to top dead center, a valve opens and allows the steam to return to a closed loop system for recycling back into the piston, thereby reducing the energy required to heat the water, because the steam is returning to, and helping to keep hot, the water reservoir. This differs from a normal steam engine in only one respect; in a normal motor, the boiler makes the steam, and the steam that is in the boiler is under pressure, and this pressure is common to the boiler and piston. There is no 'explosive force', because once the water turns to steam, that is the only pressure used. Also a normal steam engine does not usually recycle the heat. In Vasily's motor, superheated water goes into the cylinder, and then expands. Actually, this engine should be much more efficient than a normal engine, but I don't see any over-unity here, because there sill has to be a heat source for the water. But, It looks like he says that as the steam 'explodes', it somehow helps to heat the water for the next cycle. How it would do that, I don't know. Also, I have to wonder, if there was a given amount of water that exactly filled it's sealed container, and this was heated to 1800 degrees Fahrenheit, what would the pressure on the container be? The water, while not allowed to expand into steam, would remain liquid, but surely the pressures would be tremendous, and require some real power to pump in more water to keep the reservoir full. Mitch - Original Message - From: Jerry Decker - KN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Interact interact@listserv.capital-master.com Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [Keelynet] New variant of Eternal engine. Hola Vasily et al! I am posting this to our list to see if there is any feedback, thanks! http://www.mail-archive.com/interact%40listserv.capital-master.com/maillist.html Vasily Bezukladnikov wrote: - In diesel the air (in following cycles in the cylinder instead of air will be already the steam) heat up by compression to 800 *C. Injected water at first will cool hot air, which will be compressed from cooling by cool water, it will facilitate the further squeeze of air by piston. At diminishing of temperature on one degree of Celsius any gas decreases on 1/273 part of volume. The water warms up from hot jammed air, but pressing of environment of the cylinder hampers a boiling of water, though already at temperature 372 *C all water accepts a gaseous phase independently from the further growth of pressure. Pressure, p (Atm.) 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... 100 218 Water boiling-point, t (C*) - 100 119 132 141 150 157 163 168 173 178 182 ... 310 372 Analyzing temperature of entered water and the speed of rotation of crankshaft and the load, the electronics should regulate the injection time, the quantity and the size of droplets of sprayed water so that water boiled only after passage by the piston of the top dead center. The water, at the boiling or steam exhalation, increases the volume in 1673 times, than helps compressed air to push the piston. During a working stroke in cylinder, falls the pressure of gases, from it the all super-heated water do boil as explosion and gives an accumulated surplus energy to compressed steam for pushing the piston. Besides, the explosion do the shock wave, which by the strongest heating of gas can instantly ignite various subjects, and which with supersonic speed having repeatedly a reflect from the piston and surface of cylinder, does the essential heating of the formerly compressed steam. In moment of bottom dead center the electronics through the small outlet valve issues only surpluses of air (of steam) into a radiator for repeated using of condensation water. In the beginning of new compression, when in the cylinder
Re: [Keelynet] [SPAM] Re: New variant of Eternal engine.
Hello Ron. Yes, an injector can be made to operate at almost any pressure. Modern concrete cutters use a water pressure of 30,000 to 40,000 P.S.I.- so it can be done. The only problem I see with Vasily's steam motor is holding the liquid pressure from becoming steam. This is one subject that I know little about. In Vasily's letter, he has given us a table on the pressures and temperatures at which water turns to steam. I will do a little research in this area. However, there is a phenomenon that may hold a key to this problem. If you put a cup of water in a microwave, and heat it to beyond the boiling point, sometimes it doesn't actually boil until disturbed. Sometimes it stays liquid until you actually remove it from the microwave, and this 'vibrational' disturbance causes the water to erupt violently, with explosive force, turning to steam, burning you badly in the process. So, perhaps, there is a way to keep water liquid at extremely high temperatures, without it making really high pressures. If this is the case, then Vasily's motor looks better and better. It is very difficult to understand the broken English that is used in the explanation. Maybe we can get Vasily to explain it better for us. Mitch - Original Message - From: Ron Hammar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Interact interact@listserv.capital-master.com Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [Keelynet] [SPAM] Re: New variant of Eternal engine. Hi, I think some of the new diesel fuel injectors have a psi of around 3000 psi. Could something like this be use for the water? Ron - Original Message - From: Mitch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Interact interact@listserv.capital-master.com Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 3:12 AM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Keelynet] New variant of Eternal engine. O.K. Jerry, I'll take a crack at this. It appears that this guy is talking about a simple steam engine. He rightly says that water under various pressures boils at different temperatures, and is telling us how his engine works. He uses super heated water to 800 degrees c. which is under extreme pressure, and therefore still in a liquid state, as the sole source of pressure in the piston. When the piston is just beyond top dead center, probably 2 degrees, the superheated water is injected into the cylinder. Now that the water is in the piston, the pressure variable has changed, and the water literally 'explodes' into steam, expanding itself 1673 times its liquid volume, which then creates tremendous pressure within the cylinder, forcing the piston to move, and running the engine. After the steam has done it's work, and as the piston returns to top dead center, a valve opens and allows the steam to return to a closed loop system for recycling back into the piston, thereby reducing the energy required to heat the water, because the steam is returning to, and helping to keep hot, the water reservoir. This differs from a normal steam engine in only one respect; in a normal motor, the boiler makes the steam, and the steam that is in the boiler is under pressure, and this pressure is common to the boiler and piston. There is no 'explosive force', because once the water turns to steam, that is the only pressure used. Also a normal steam engine does not usually recycle the heat. In Vasily's motor, superheated water goes into the cylinder, and then expands. Actually, this engine should be much more efficient than a normal engine, but I don't see any over-unity here, because there sill has to be a heat source for the water. But, It looks like he says that as the steam 'explodes', it somehow helps to heat the water for the next cycle. How it would do that, I don't know. Also, I have to wonder, if there was a given amount of water that exactly filled it's sealed container, and this was heated to 1800 degrees Fahrenheit, what would the pressure on the container be? The water, while not allowed to expand into steam, would remain liquid, but surely the pressures would be tremendous, and require some real power to pump in more water to keep the reservoir full. Mitch - Original Message - From: Jerry Decker - KN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Interact interact@listserv.capital-master.com Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [Keelynet] New variant of Eternal engine. Hola Vasily et al! I am posting this to our list to see if there is any feedback, thanks! http://www.mail-archive.com/interact%40listserv.capital-master.com/maillist.html Vasily Bezukladnikov wrote: - In diesel the air (in following cycles in the cylinder instead of air will be already the steam) heat up by compression to 800 *C. Injected water at first will cool hot air, which will be compressed from cooling by cool water, it will facilitate the further squeeze of air by piston. At diminishing of temperature on one degree of Celsius any gas decreases on 1/273 part of volume. The water warms up from hot jammed air
