Re: [Interest] Netiquette [was: Feature Request - QtCreator - Multiple right margins]

[Konstantin Tokarev]

I personally find this troll rather amusing, and will be kinda missing those wall of text rants in case he gets banned :) 11.02.2019, 19:09, "Michael Jackson" :We all get frustrated at times and sometimes that frustration comes out in posts (hopefully with a short  tag..) but Roland’s posts _always_ have put downs for almost every other kind of developer except those in the medical/space community. I consider myself having pretty thick skin and I can ignore those posts (Gmail server side rules make sure of this) but at some point Roland needs to be told in no uncertain terms that the list is for questions/answers not long tirades. I don’t mind discussing the merits of the different systems, use-cases of those systems, developer learning and all that. Those can be enlightening discussions in and of themselves. But at some point, we as a community, just need to let Roland know that his demeanor is not conducive to getting responses on the list and soon will no longer be tolerated. -- Michael A. Jackson                 400 S. Pioneer BlvdOwner, President                   Springboro, Ohio 45066BlueQuartz Software, LLC           EMail: mike.jack...@bluequartz.net  From: Interest <interest-boun...@qt-project.org> on behalf of René Hansen <ren...@gmail.com>Date: Monday, February 11, 2019 at 10:16 AMTo: Jason H <jh...@gmx.com>Cc: Qt Interest <interest@qt-project.org>Subject: Re: [Interest] Netiquette [was: Feature Request - QtCreator - Multiple right margins] I'm with Jason here.I use Qt for mobile development as well, and I don't think a ban is the right course of action. Choice of words is a pre-eminent selector in deciding which posts to take seriously. Using terms in the the manner Roland does about phone development, in all likelihood, self-disqualifies any serious consideration his posts might have received otherwise. Although a shame, that is repercussion enough in my opinion./René On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 15:07 Jason H <jh...@gmx.com> wrote:The truth is I often enjoy the hyperbole. In my book it's better to have a thick skin rather than to go around being offended by everyone and asking for them to comply with a fragile nature. However this most recent post put down the Qt mobile community of which I am a significant member having been using Qt in mobile for about the past 5 years. I have argued repeatedly for more attention in the Mobile platforms (except WinRT) and the message was directly contrary to that aim. I pointed out (off list) ironically what should happen is port the application to mobile and just let Samsung make and revise the hardware faster than he ever could. Didn't draw any ire but it didn't go anywhere either. I'm starting to wonder if the hyperbole isn't for comedic effect.My plan of action is that I'm just going to ignore this person's snarky posts which comes with the price that I might have the answer to their issue and I won't contribute it.I on occasion post something snarky because I am frustrated with the problem I'm having. I wouldn't want to be banned over it. There is a social capital here, add I try to have a positive balance. And I think it's reasonable that when you fall below zero, you stop getting replies. I would not bring in the CoC just yet.> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 at 8:18 PM> From: "Konstantin Shegunov" <kshegu...@gmail.com>> To: m...@herrdiel.de> Cc: "Interests Qt" <interest@qt-project.org>> Subject: Re: [Interest] Netiquette [was: Feature Request - QtCreator - Multiple right margins]>> >> > [...]> > I do appreciate the open discussion style on this list. I even do> > appreciate a somewhat harsh style, if it has a factual base and is> > getting straight to the point instead of b*s*ing around. But those> > lengthy wallpapers our President of Logikal solutions commonly utters,> > have long since crossed the border from amusing to annoying.> >>> I, myself, still perceive them more as amusingly misguided, than really> angering (annoying at times, yes). This is just me, though, I have> experience with that kind of thing. However, I can very well imagine how> you, and most certainly others, are finding them taxing; not surprising at> all.> Plus, as I rule, I tend to discard anything that references fortran or> cobol as examples of anything ... ;)> ___> Interest mailing list> Interest@qt-project.org> https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/interest>___Interest mailing listInterest@qt-project.orghttps://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/interest___ Interest mailing list Interest@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/interest,___Interest mailing listInterest@qt-project.orghttps://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/interest  -- Regards,Konstantin ___
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Re: [Interest] Netiquette [was: Feature Request - QtCreator - Multiple right margins]

[Michael Jackson]

We all get frustrated at times and sometimes that frustration comes out in 
posts (hopefully with a short  tag..) but Roland’s posts 
_always_ have put downs for almost every other kind of developer except those 
in the medical/space community. I consider myself having pretty thick skin and 
I can ignore those posts (Gmail server side rules make sure of this) but at 
some point Roland needs to be told in no uncertain terms that the list is for 
questions/answers not long tirades. I don’t mind discussing the merits of the 
different systems, use-cases of those systems, developer learning and all that. 
Those can be enlightening discussions in and of themselves. But at some point, 
we as a community, just need to let Roland know that his demeanor is not 
conducive to getting responses on the list and soon will no longer be tolerated.

 

-- 

Michael A. Jackson 400 S. Pioneer Blvd
Owner, President   Springboro, Ohio 45066
BlueQuartz Software, LLC   EMail: mike.jack...@bluequartz.net


 

From: Interest  on behalf of René Hansen 

Date: Monday, February 11, 2019 at 10:16 AM
To: Jason H 
Cc: Qt Interest 
Subject: Re: [Interest] Netiquette [was: Feature Request - QtCreator - Multiple 
right margins]

 

I'm with Jason here.

I use Qt for mobile development as well, and I don't think a ban is the right 
course of action. Choice of words is a pre-eminent selector in deciding which 
posts to take seriously. Using terms in the the manner Roland does about phone 
development, in all likelihood, self-disqualifies any serious consideration his 
posts might have received otherwise. Although a shame, that is repercussion 
enough in my opinion.


/René

 

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 15:07 Jason H  wrote:

The truth is I often enjoy the hyperbole. In my book it's better to have a 
thick skin rather than to go around being offended by everyone and asking for 
them to comply with a fragile nature. However this most recent post put down 
the Qt mobile community of which I am a significant member having been using Qt 
in mobile for about the past 5 years. I have argued repeatedly for more 
attention in the Mobile platforms (except WinRT) and the message was directly 
contrary to that aim. I pointed out (off list) ironically what should happen is 
port the application to mobile and just let Samsung make and revise the 
hardware faster than he ever could. Didn't draw any ire but it didn't go 
anywhere either. I'm starting to wonder if the hyperbole isn't for comedic 
effect. 

My plan of action is that I'm just going to ignore this person's snarky posts 
which comes with the price that I might have the answer to their issue and I 
won't contribute it. 

I on occasion post something snarky because I am frustrated with the problem 
I'm having. I wouldn't want to be banned over it. There is a social capital 
here, add I try to have a positive balance. And I think it's reasonable that 
when you fall below zero, you stop getting replies. I would not bring in the 
CoC just yet. 

> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 at 8:18 PM
> From: "Konstantin Shegunov" 
> To: m...@herrdiel.de
> Cc: "Interests Qt" 
> Subject: Re: [Interest] Netiquette [was: Feature Request - QtCreator - 
> Multiple right margins]
>
> >
> > [...]
> > I do appreciate the open discussion style on this list. I even do
> > appreciate a somewhat harsh style, if it has a factual base and is
> > getting straight to the point instead of b*s*ing around. But those
> > lengthy wallpapers our President of Logikal solutions commonly utters,
> > have long since crossed the border from amusing to annoying.
> >
> 
> I, myself, still perceive them more as amusingly misguided, than really
> angering (annoying at times, yes). This is just me, though, I have
> experience with that kind of thing. However, I can very well imagine how
> you, and most certainly others, are finding them taxing; not surprising at
> all.
> Plus, as I rule, I tend to discard anything that references fortran or
> cobol as examples of anything ... ;)
> ___
> Interest mailing list
> Interest@qt-project.org
> https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/interest
>
___
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https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/interest

___ Interest mailing list 
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Re: [Interest] Netiquette [was: Feature Request - QtCreator - Multiple right margins]

[René Hansen]

I'm with Jason here.

I use Qt for mobile development as well, and I don't think a ban is the
right course of action. Choice of words is a pre-eminent selector in
deciding which posts to take seriously. Using terms in the the manner
Roland does about phone development, in all likelihood, self-disqualifies
any serious consideration his posts might have received otherwise. Although
a shame, that is repercussion enough in my opinion.


/René

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 15:07 Jason H  wrote:

> The truth is I often enjoy the hyperbole. In my book it's better to have a
> thick skin rather than to go around being offended by everyone and asking
> for them to comply with a fragile nature. However this most recent post put
> down the Qt mobile community of which I am a significant member having been
> using Qt in mobile for about the past 5 years. I have argued repeatedly for
> more attention in the Mobile platforms (except WinRT) and the message was
> directly contrary to that aim. I pointed out (off list) ironically what
> should happen is port the application to mobile and just let Samsung make
> and revise the hardware faster than he ever could. Didn't draw any ire but
> it didn't go anywhere either. I'm starting to wonder if the hyperbole isn't
> for comedic effect.
>
> My plan of action is that I'm just going to ignore this person's snarky
> posts which comes with the price that I might have the answer to their
> issue and I won't contribute it.
>
> I on occasion post something snarky because I am frustrated with the
> problem I'm having. I wouldn't want to be banned over it. There is a social
> capital here, add I try to have a positive balance. And I think it's
> reasonable that when you fall below zero, you stop getting replies. I would
> not bring in the CoC just yet.
>
> > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 at 8:18 PM
> > From: "Konstantin Shegunov" 
> > To: m...@herrdiel.de
> > Cc: "Interests Qt" 
> > Subject: Re: [Interest] Netiquette [was: Feature Request - QtCreator -
> Multiple right margins]
> >
> > >
> > > [...]
> > > I do appreciate the open discussion style on this list. I even do
> > > appreciate a somewhat harsh style, if it has a factual base and is
> > > getting straight to the point instead of b*s*ing around. But those
> > > lengthy wallpapers our President of Logikal solutions commonly utters,
> > > have long since crossed the border from amusing to annoying.
> > >
> >
> > I, myself, still perceive them more as amusingly misguided, than really
> > angering (annoying at times, yes). This is just me, though, I have
> > experience with that kind of thing. However, I can very well imagine how
> > you, and most certainly others, are finding them taxing; not surprising
> at
> > all.
> > Plus, as I rule, I tend to discard anything that references fortran or
> > cobol as examples of anything ... ;)
> > ___
> > Interest mailing list
> > Interest@qt-project.org
> > https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/interest
> >
> ___
> Interest mailing list
> Interest@qt-project.org
> https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/interest
>
___
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Re: [Interest] Netiquette [was: Feature Request - QtCreator - Multiple right margins]

[Jason H]

The truth is I often enjoy the hyperbole. In my book it's better to have a 
thick skin rather than to go around being offended by everyone and asking for 
them to comply with a fragile nature. However this most recent post put down 
the Qt mobile community of which I am a significant member having been using Qt 
in mobile for about the past 5 years. I have argued repeatedly for more 
attention in the Mobile platforms (except WinRT) and the message was directly 
contrary to that aim. I pointed out (off list) ironically what should happen is 
port the application to mobile and just let Samsung make and revise the 
hardware faster than he ever could. Didn't draw any ire but it didn't go 
anywhere either. I'm starting to wonder if the hyperbole isn't for comedic 
effect. 

My plan of action is that I'm just going to ignore this person's snarky posts 
which comes with the price that I might have the answer to their issue and I 
won't contribute it. 

I on occasion post something snarky because I am frustrated with the problem 
I'm having. I wouldn't want to be banned over it. There is a social capital 
here, add I try to have a positive balance. And I think it's reasonable that 
when you fall below zero, you stop getting replies. I would not bring in the 
CoC just yet. 

> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 at 8:18 PM
> From: "Konstantin Shegunov" 
> To: m...@herrdiel.de
> Cc: "Interests Qt" 
> Subject: Re: [Interest] Netiquette [was: Feature Request - QtCreator - 
> Multiple right margins]
>
> >
> > [...]
> > I do appreciate the open discussion style on this list. I even do
> > appreciate a somewhat harsh style, if it has a factual base and is
> > getting straight to the point instead of b*s*ing around. But those
> > lengthy wallpapers our President of Logikal solutions commonly utters,
> > have long since crossed the border from amusing to annoying.
> >
> 
> I, myself, still perceive them more as amusingly misguided, than really
> angering (annoying at times, yes). This is just me, though, I have
> experience with that kind of thing. However, I can very well imagine how
> you, and most certainly others, are finding them taxing; not surprising at
> all.
> Plus, as I rule, I tend to discard anything that references fortran or
> cobol as examples of anything ... ;)
> ___
> Interest mailing list
> Interest@qt-project.org
> https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/interest
>
___
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Re: [Interest] Netiquette [was: Feature Request - QtCreator - Multiple right margins]

[Nuno Santos]

Sebastian,

Thanks for this delightful answer.

I totally agree with your points and I couldn’t have them exposed better myself.

You are not alone!

Best regards,

Nuno

PS: isn’t a mobile device a embedded device anyway? XD

> On 8 Feb 2019, at 17:44, m...@herrdiel.de wrote:
> 
> "All",
> 
> somebody who calls a whole platform "idiot" lacks any respect for those
> who work in that field. Doing so repetetively whenever mentioning
> "phones", is not a slip of the keyboard but is done intentional - which
> puts the author in the very vincinity of his own vocabulary.
> 
> I don't want to read this kind of indignity ever and anon. I've rarely
> seen such constantly condescending and trolling behavior being
> tolerated  as long as with this individual.
> 
> Loaden with self-advertizing links, his rants and unproven premises
> often need no more factual base than his opinion and in their
> narcissistic self-repetition they have long become spam. It is fine to
> have an opinion. It's ok to state it clearly. But to hawk it with
> almost every email and in every non-related context is getting a tad
> tedious.
> 
> I don't want programmers (like me) to be insulted as "script kiddies"
> and "12 year old boy"s with "shabby skill levels" that write "idiot
> apps" for "idiot phones" that have "the lifespan of a fruit fly". It's
> ok to be carried away a bit, but these deliberate defamations are a pattern.
> 
> I don't want to read all that self-righteous boasting about his
> experience from the age of vacuum tubes and Zuse I. I just don't care.
> It's just OT, as Giuseppe D'Angelo pointed out a while ago.
> 
> I don't want to read stuff like "QML (puke)" from somebody who has long
> passed puberty.
> 
> I do appreciate the open discussion style on this list. I even do
> appreciate a somewhat harsh style, if it has a factual base and is
> getting straight to the point instead of b*s*ing around. But those
> lengthy wallpapers our President of Logikal solutions commonly utters,
> have long since crossed the border from amusing to annoying.
> 
> As for me, I have just plonked Roland Hughes again (no, not the first
> time). But that doesn't help if I have to read through all the
> avalanches of replies who just feed the troll (like mine now, probably).
> 
> I'd be happy to see him banned, at least temporarily. But then again, I
> am just a 12-y-o script kiddie (not true) with a shabby skill level
> (true), so you won't really need advice from me.
> 
> Sorry for the rant. Won't happen again on this topic.
> 
> Sebastian
> 
> 
> Am 08.02.2019 um 15:19 schrieb rol...@logikalsolutions.com 
> :
>> 
>> All,
>> 
>> Slightly off topic but still relevant, if Qt cares even slightly about
>> still being used in the embedded world. If all they care about are
>> idiot phones and that declining market, I guess this doesn't matter.
>> 
>> https://barrgroup.com/Embedded-Systems/Books/Embedded-C-Coding-Standard
>> 
>> Given much of the embedded world tries to adhere (mostly) to the Barr
>> standard but falls victim to the wordiness of our C++ world (even
>> COBOL looks askance at Q_PROPERTY macros) we tend to work in worlds
>> which require multiple right margins, only one of which has a hard
>> wrap. While it would be awesome if QtCreator could let it be
>> completely arbitrary as Sublime does:
>> 
>> "rulers": [80, 100, 120],
>> "word_wrap": true,
>> "wrap_width": 120
>> 
>> It would be nice to be able set 2 with the farthest one being the wrap
>> point if wrapping is enabled. Most shops strive for 80 but put in
>> their "overrides" for the standard a hard limit of 130. As it stands
>> now we can see what we strive for or the hard wall, but not both.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
> -- 
> http://www.classintouch.de  - Tablet-Software 
> für Lehrer
> 
> 
> ___
> Interest mailing list
> Interest@qt-project.org 
> https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/interest 
> 
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Re: [Interest] Netiquette [was: Feature Request - QtCreator - Multiple right margins]

[Konstantin Shegunov]

>
> [...]
> I do appreciate the open discussion style on this list. I even do
> appreciate a somewhat harsh style, if it has a factual base and is
> getting straight to the point instead of b*s*ing around. But those
> lengthy wallpapers our President of Logikal solutions commonly utters,
> have long since crossed the border from amusing to annoying.
>

I, myself, still perceive them more as amusingly misguided, than really
angering (annoying at times, yes). This is just me, though, I have
experience with that kind of thing. However, I can very well imagine how
you, and most certainly others, are finding them taxing; not surprising at
all.
Plus, as I rule, I tend to discard anything that references fortran or
cobol as examples of anything ... ;)
___
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https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/interest

Re: [Interest] Netiquette [was: Feature Request - QtCreator - Multiple right margins]

[Mitch Curtis]

Yep. Why don't we use our Code of Conduct here?
 
https://codereview.qt-project.org/#/c/243623/

On 2/8/19, 6:47 PM, "Interest on behalf of m...@herrdiel.de" 
 wrote:

"All",

somebody who calls a whole platform "idiot" lacks any respect for those
who work in that field. Doing so repetetively whenever mentioning
"phones", is not a slip of the keyboard but is done intentional - which
puts the author in the very vincinity of his own vocabulary.

I don't want to read this kind of indignity ever and anon. I've rarely
seen such constantly condescending and trolling behavior being
tolerated  as long as with this individual.

Loaden with self-advertizing links, his rants and unproven premises
often need no more factual base than his opinion and in their
narcissistic self-repetition they have long become spam. It is fine to
have an opinion. It's ok to state it clearly. But to hawk it with
almost every email and in every non-related context is getting a tad
tedious.

I don't want programmers (like me) to be insulted as "script kiddies"
and "12 year old boy"s with "shabby skill levels" that write "idiot
apps" for "idiot phones" that have "the lifespan of a fruit fly". It's
ok to be carried away a bit, but these deliberate defamations are a pattern.

I don't want to read all that self-righteous boasting about his
experience from the age of vacuum tubes and Zuse I. I just don't care.
It's just OT, as Giuseppe D'Angelo pointed out a while ago.

I don't want to read stuff like "QML (puke)" from somebody who has long
passed puberty.

I do appreciate the open discussion style on this list. I even do
appreciate a somewhat harsh style, if it has a factual base and is
getting straight to the point instead of b*s*ing around. But those
lengthy wallpapers our President of Logikal solutions commonly utters,
have long since crossed the border from amusing to annoying.

As for me, I have just plonked Roland Hughes again (no, not the first
time). But that doesn't help if I have to read through all the
avalanches of replies who just feed the troll (like mine now, probably).

I'd be happy to see him banned, at least temporarily. But then again, I
am just a 12-y-o script kiddie (not true) with a shabby skill level
(true), so you won't really need advice from me.

Sorry for the rant. Won't happen again on this topic.

Sebastian


Am 08.02.2019 um 15:19 schrieb rol...@logikalsolutions.com:
>
> All,
>
> Slightly off topic but still relevant, if Qt cares even slightly about
> still being used in the embedded world. If all they care about are
> idiot phones and that declining market, I guess this doesn't matter.
>
> https://barrgroup.com/Embedded-Systems/Books/Embedded-C-Coding-Standard
>
> Given much of the embedded world tries to adhere (mostly) to the Barr
> standard but falls victim to the wordiness of our C++ world (even
> COBOL looks askance at Q_PROPERTY macros) we tend to work in worlds
> which require multiple right margins, only one of which has a hard
> wrap. While it would be awesome if QtCreator could let it be
> completely arbitrary as Sublime does:
>
> "rulers": [80, 100, 120],
> "word_wrap": true,
> "wrap_width": 120
>
> It would be nice to be able set 2 with the farthest one being the wrap
> point if wrapping is enabled. Most shops strive for 80 but put in
> their "overrides" for the standard a hard limit of 130. As it stands
> now we can see what we strive for or the hard wall, but not both.
>
> Thanks
>
-- 
http://www.classintouch.de - Tablet-Software für Lehrer


___
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Re: [Interest] Netiquette [was: Feature Request - QtCreator - Multiple right margins]

[mail]

"All",

somebody who calls a whole platform "idiot" lacks any respect for those
who work in that field. Doing so repetetively whenever mentioning
"phones", is not a slip of the keyboard but is done intentional - which
puts the author in the very vincinity of his own vocabulary.

I don't want to read this kind of indignity ever and anon. I've rarely
seen such constantly condescending and trolling behavior being
tolerated  as long as with this individual.

Loaden with self-advertizing links, his rants and unproven premises
often need no more factual base than his opinion and in their
narcissistic self-repetition they have long become spam. It is fine to
have an opinion. It's ok to state it clearly. But to hawk it with
almost every email and in every non-related context is getting a tad
tedious.

I don't want programmers (like me) to be insulted as "script kiddies"
and "12 year old boy"s with "shabby skill levels" that write "idiot
apps" for "idiot phones" that have "the lifespan of a fruit fly". It's
ok to be carried away a bit, but these deliberate defamations are a pattern.

I don't want to read all that self-righteous boasting about his
experience from the age of vacuum tubes and Zuse I. I just don't care.
It's just OT, as Giuseppe D'Angelo pointed out a while ago.

I don't want to read stuff like "QML (puke)" from somebody who has long
passed puberty.

I do appreciate the open discussion style on this list. I even do
appreciate a somewhat harsh style, if it has a factual base and is
getting straight to the point instead of b*s*ing around. But those
lengthy wallpapers our President of Logikal solutions commonly utters,
have long since crossed the border from amusing to annoying.

As for me, I have just plonked Roland Hughes again (no, not the first
time). But that doesn't help if I have to read through all the
avalanches of replies who just feed the troll (like mine now, probably).

I'd be happy to see him banned, at least temporarily. But then again, I
am just a 12-y-o script kiddie (not true) with a shabby skill level
(true), so you won't really need advice from me.

Sorry for the rant. Won't happen again on this topic.

Sebastian


Am 08.02.2019 um 15:19 schrieb rol...@logikalsolutions.com:
>
> All,
>
> Slightly off topic but still relevant, if Qt cares even slightly about
> still being used in the embedded world. If all they care about are
> idiot phones and that declining market, I guess this doesn't matter.
>
> https://barrgroup.com/Embedded-Systems/Books/Embedded-C-Coding-Standard
>
> Given much of the embedded world tries to adhere (mostly) to the Barr
> standard but falls victim to the wordiness of our C++ world (even
> COBOL looks askance at Q_PROPERTY macros) we tend to work in worlds
> which require multiple right margins, only one of which has a hard
> wrap. While it would be awesome if QtCreator could let it be
> completely arbitrary as Sublime does:
>
> "rulers": [80, 100, 120],
> "word_wrap": true,
> "wrap_width": 120
>
> It would be nice to be able set 2 with the farthest one being the wrap
> point if wrapping is enabled. Most shops strive for 80 but put in
> their "overrides" for the standard a hard limit of 130. As it stands
> now we can see what we strive for or the hard wall, but not both.
>
> Thanks
>
-- 
http://www.classintouch.de - Tablet-Software für Lehrer


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