tation just a string, or a parseable PHP expression? is it more
useful to use the de facto existing syntax in DocBlocks, or to add a new
keyword or operator? etc
The devil, as ever, is in the detail.
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this list, to make it easier to find what has previously been
discussed on a topic. Regards, -- Rowan Collins [IMSoP]
Ah yes, I've seen them in the request bugs.
https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=52297
It was suggested that a prototype be made, I have provided one, and it
should pass basic
terms such as "package
visibility", "namespace visibility", "private class", and the related
notion of "friend class" / "friend function".
I wonder if we should maintain a Usenet-style FAQ for this list, to make
it easier to find what has previously
ou can normally
limit their use with careful design.
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ising.
More contentious is how is_resource() should behave; assuming *all*
resources are converted, it could just be deprecated anyway, I guess...
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ng
currently returning a resource cannot be changed without declaring a
breaking change. And if you're changing fgets but not fopen, you might
as well just build a new API, which SplFileObject already has most of
(for some reason, it appears to include fputcsv but not fputs).
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duced.
That said, I'd be interested in examples of what any other languages do
around this area, and how it is used in practice.
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ility and robustness) rather outweigh the gains of
marking the class immutable, if the implementation is such that you're
forced to choose.
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nce you've set it up, or have
privileged (private) methods which are allowed to mutate the properties.
[1] https://github.com/guzzle/psr7/blob/master/src/Request.php#L101
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essary. The ability to freeze an array would also
be useful in that case...
I realise this is a lot more complex than the original suggestion, but I
think something of this level of detail is needed to make it useful.
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Steven Hilder wrote on 11/11/2015 02:13:
This behaviour was present in Joe's original implementation, but later
removed[3] by Nikita. His commit message says that this was "dead
code", but
I don't see what was wrong with it.
It looks to me like 'decl->name' will never be set for an anonymous
private members [e.g.
https://3v4l.org/R6Y6k]
In this case, I guess the "@" in "class@anonymous" makes the name
illegal anyway, but I'm not sold on the null byte being more
unacceptable here than anywhere else.
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Rowan Collins wrote on 03/11/2015 09:20:
That's not equivalent, because the version with no arguments
explicitly prohibits zero arguments, which the variadic signature
doesn't.
Sorry, this should read "the version with no arguments explicitly
prohibits passing one argu
Marc Bennewitz wrote on 02/11/2015 19:44:
Hi Rowan,
On 11/02/2015 05:41 PM, Rowan Collins wrote:
Alexander Lisachenko wrote on 02/11/2015 11:12:
First definition declares exactly one single parameter, which can be
absent during the method call, so I can even write
public static function
agree with you that this warning is incorrect, but will
leave this here in case anybody else is equally confused (and becomes
any less so by reading this...)
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data, but named
in a way that was likely to deter use.
Would "package" (namespace-based) visibility have solved the problem in
this case? That's something I've often wanted - "this is public within
this Lib, but should never be used outside it".
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ction signature that Foo specifies, so the warning
seems perfectly correct to me. In your example, you've replaced a single
optional parameter ($bar = null) with a specification of variadic
parameters (...$args); these are clearly not interchangeable, so again,
the signature is different.
Johannes Schlüter wrote on 28/10/2015 22:56:
On Wed, 2015-10-28 at 16:45 +, Rowan Collins wrote:
On the downside, it's worth noting that while PHP destructors are
technically deterministic, the language can actually prevent them
running on scope exit, because Exceptions hold referenc
Erik van Velzen wrote on 28/10/2015 15:02:
The ScopeGuard's destructor can now detect the condition:
if ( $this->success_registered ) {
// Function reached checkpoint for this scope
$this->callSuccessHandlers();
} else {
// Function aborted early, due to a throw or early return
$
lExitHandlers();
No boilerplate throw-catch needed, works even if there is already a catch or
finally within the function's definition.
In fact, I kind of want to use this somewhere now... ;)
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d like to say that although the
documentation is official, I think it should be considered descriptive not
prescriptive - if it labels something as void, but the Engine doesn't consider
it so, the manual would be wrong, not the Engine.
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Andrea Faulds wrote on 15/10/2015 17:34:
Hi Pedro,
Pedro Cordeiro wrote:
I've been thinking about what PHP should do when accessing the return
value
of a `void` function, and so far, I think the consistent thing should
be to
get NULL, while throwing an E_NOTICE.
We could do this, but I do w
know whether a return value is being used
or discarded for optimisation purposes? If so, could that logic be
hooked to provide the Notice?
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Andrea Faulds wrote on 15/10/2015 16:32:
Hi Rowan,
Rowan Collins wrote:
But why "invent" (as far as PHP is concerned) this new keyword of "void"
to mean exactly the same thing "null" already means - absence of a
definite value?
They don't mean exactly
r could detect the discrepancy, but the
Zend Engine will not, until the function is executed.
It's a shame there's no "tail call this other function and discard its
result" construct.
Yeah, I guess what you really want is for a void function to be able to
"goto foo();
gate:
function foo(): void { do_something(); }
function wrapped_foo(): void { do_something_else(); return foo(); }
// ERROR: can't specify return value in a void function
"return foo()" is not illegal because foo is declared void, but because
wrapped_foo is - even though the result is
Korvin Szanto wrote on 14/10/2015 23:55:
If I capture the result of a "void" method and check if my result variable
with isset(), I'll get false. This sounds like it's void of value to me.
But why "invent" (as far as PHP is concerned) this new keyword of "void"
to mean exactly the same thing "
ore you backport, the more you fragment the ecosystem.
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is more useful if we don't make everything
alias.
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re, or could it just be a lightweight Composer
dependency people could grab when they needed it?
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix
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nctionality is available to move to)
rather than leaving until the last minute; and b) we won't necessarily
know that a particular release is 7.last, e.g. the decision against
releasing a 5.7 happened 6 months after the release of 5.6.0
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Tom Worster wrote on 03/10/2015 21:33:
when the grammar starts with function(args), it seems the main
difference from existing grammar is to make the curly braces when
there's only one statement in the function block.
in other contexts i had the impression that things like
if (bool-expr)
Levi Morrison wrote on 01/10/2015 19:09:
You are capped to saving about 5-7 characters no matter what you do
with this functionality.
I see an upper limit to savings of 21 - using "|" to stand in for "some
single character delimiting the sections" gives:
|$x|$y|$x*$y| // 13 chars
vs
functi
when that would be required.
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ntax in general) but are happy with
the *functionality*. You are assuming that "I think the current syntax
is verbose" is synonymous with "I think having to list captured
variables is annoying", but there are people who do not take that position.
Regards,
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Nikita Nefedov wrote on 01/10/2015 15:58:
On Thu, 01 Oct 2015 15:33:51 +0300, Rowan Collins
wrote:
It is a tool for making them shorter, yes, but it is not the only
way, and it comes with a cost of changing established behaviour.
Again, look at C++'s lambda syntax - it is much shorter
rather
than 3.
Genuine question, not a criticism - this functional(?) style of
composition is not something I'm very familiar with. (For the same
reason, I struggle to read that function definition no matter which
syntax it's expressed in.)
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.
Whereas with auto capture you can at least guess that this variable
will be captured from defining scope, if you don't know how this
feature works).
Well, you certainly can't guess it from the behaviour of anything else
in PHP. You could guess based on the behaviour of other lang
tly reasonable to want both a shorter syntax and a different
capture behaviour; but it also seems perfectly reasonable to want a
shorter syntax with the same functionality as the current one, just as
we have with [] vs array().
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] for array construction. But it does show that "short closures"
and "auto-capture closures" are two different features; we could save up
to 17 characters without changing behaviour if we could eliminate the
keywords "function", "use", and "return".
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a mug's game to guess which factors influence whom. Also,
remember that the votes on RFCs are intended to confirm consensus, not
replace it - the idea is not to win over just enough people to "win", so
it's not necessarily about numbers.
That's not to say that automatic ca
as multiple
CPU cores. An asynchronous approach is useful for cases of "do something else
while I wait for this background task to complete", but seems less so for "do
both of these things actively, using whatever resource is available".
It may be that the first class of
x) { $x * 2 }
lambda($x) { $x * 2 }
Or the arrow inside the parens:
fn($x => $x * 2)
function($x => $x * 2)
My point is that there are plenty of other variants, if we're no longer
mimicking the "(params) => expression" syntax of other languages.
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eady been raised:
function($x) use ($y) { foo($x); bar($x, $y); }
fn($x) => { foo($x); bar($x, $y); }
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Hi,
I would like to write up my suggestion of hasitem() and
variable_exists() as a formal RFC.
I have registered on the wiki with username "imsop", please could I have
appropriate karma to draft the RFC.
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least) being that a structure is passed around via
TSRM* macros and ultimately used by the EG macro in place of a true
global: http://lxr.php.net/xref/PHP_5_6/Zend/zend_globals_macros.h#45
All of this is something of an aside from what you really wanted to
know, though. :)
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ink it's a big problem myself, but I can see the logic of
questioning it.
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Rowan Collins wrote on 23/09/2015 21:15:
On 23 September 2015 20:04:57 BST, Ryan Pallas wrote:
I dislike this because it makes refactoring harder.
What's more, the function is not dereferencing a variable to get its value, it
is looking up a name in the symbol table, so the magic syntax
Lester Caine wrote on 24/09/2015 08:06:
So is PHP heading
down the path of a compiled language even if that is hidden in some
automatic cache or is it still mainly an interpreted script?
PHP already is a compiled language; it just has a highly dynamic runtime
engine (which is at times a blessi
proposed function definition is also very all-inclusive, leading
to the risk of hard-to-understand code.
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arge caveats, and uses specific
objects to communicate between threads.
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e using the variable is misleading.
And yes, the same criticism is true of hasitem(); I'm not 100% sure if it's a
good idea or not, only that it's preferable to a Swiss-army knife exists().
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Lester Caine wrote on 23/09/2015 18:15:
On 23/09/15 17:37, Stig Bakken wrote:
I'm still in favor of having a variable_exists('varname') function though.
We had it ...
https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=24274
Actually that looks like what is currently being proposed as exists() -
a swiss-army k
holds the name and an "ordinal"
z_long directly, and only access the object representation if these two
pieces of information are not sufficient.
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d vote yes myself, but it would at least
allow for more opinions to be recorded.
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the same set of columns but there is
nothing demanding that every column in the database is actually returned
in every query? Only returning the subset needed for the job is
perfectly sensible and there are a number of ways that can happen
OK, that makes sense.
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François Laupretre wrote on 23/09/2015 16:05:
Le 23/09/2015 12:18, Rowan Collins a écrit :
Clearly, people misunderstand what isset() does, but I think an exists()
function which mimics it with a slight difference will only add to that
confusion - people will say "oh, if only I had PH
established that the null state is a natural
result of interaction with a database
Indeed, I have never disputed that. A non-existent variable, however, is
not something I've ever come across in a database context - it would
seem to require a result set having rows with different numbers of col
n, variable_exists() would be
a function which had a well-defined scope, and obvious how to use it.
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:
array_key_exists(“var”, get_defined_vars()) && is_null($var)
I wondered if someone would mention that, but didn't want to drift too
far from the point, which was the "prior to call is_null()" part of
Lester's sentence was redundant, since the problem was entirely
unrela
/javase/tutorial/java/javaOO/enum.html
[3] http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/lang/Enum.html
[4] https://docs.python.org/3/library/enum.html
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o the confusion which isset() already seems to cause.
A variable_exists() which took a string (in keeping with class_exists(),
function_exists(), etc) would also be more powerful, since you could
write things like variable_exists('foo_' . $i)
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On 20 September 2015 17:10:23 BST, Lester Caine wrote:
>On 20/09/15 15:05, Rowan Collins wrote:
>> is_null returns true in all the same situations as isset does. There
>is absolutely no difference except for whether it raises a notice.
>
>? is_null returns true when i
On 20 September 2015 01:43:06 BST, Ryan Pallas wrote:
>I would also point out that is_null returns true (after the engine
>produces
>a notice) for undefined variables:
>
>$ php -r "var_dump(is_null($a));"
>
>Notice: Undefined variable: a in Command line code on line 1
>
>Call Stack:
> 0.0001
completely separate problem from how to avoid the notices.
Again, it is not the noise which is stopping your car from flying.
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On 19/09/2015 22:43, Lester Caine wrote:
On 19/09/15 22:22, Rowan Collins wrote:
If what you want to do is avoid the notice, then you don't need to "find out before
calling is_null", you need to call isset *instead of* is_null. Again, ignore the
name, and concentrate on what i
On 19 September 2015 15:49:55 BST, Lester Caine wrote:
>On 19/09/15 13:15, Rowan Collins wrote:
>If there was a bug with 'isset' it is that it returns false for a
>variable that IS SET to null.
I honestly think that the only problem there is the name. If instead of isset()
th a multi-paradigm language is it becoming "Jack of all
trades, master of none", either because the features themselves are
sub-standard, or because people use features designed for one style of coding
as stand-ins for other styles. e.g. mixing variable variables and object
composition is likely to lead to some confusion.
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and tempted to give it a "scarier" name
Importantly, neither of these should be presented as "fixing isset", since I
have seen absolutely zero evidence that it is broken; the names and behaviours
are designed to highlight that these are functions to be used for specifi
27;d choose.
Every time you start talking about avoiding notices, and existing code, I
therefore get confused - there is no code using exists() in order for it to be
buggy!
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) gives a notice.
>IS there another fix for is_null($bar) not throwing a notice if it has
>not been created in my example for the current template.
Yes, use isset().
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here is a method to select an instance by value, which will always
return the first member with that value, not the alias. The examples also
include lots of ways of using the value with overloaded operators etc.
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On 18 September 2015 18:31:55 BST, Lester Caine wrote:
>On 18/09/15 00:06, Rowan Collins wrote:
>> So, what are anyone's thoughts? Am I rambling on too much as usual?
>;)
>
>What happens when you need to switch language?
Yes, the names of enum members should be
be an enum with two - you can define (int)true as 1,
but true is not an integer, and 1 is not a boolean value.
I suspect both styles may have their place, but algebraic types certainly
wouldn't take away my thirst for object-like enums.
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for bitsets, which overloaded bitwise
operators without ever exposing the underlying integers, might be interesting,
though.
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On 18 September 2015 03:58:57 BST, Stephen Coakley
wrote:
>On 09/17/2015 06:06 PM, Rowan Collins wrote:
>> member THURSDAY, FRIDAY, SATURDAY, SUNDAY; // don't force people
>to
>> write each entry on its own line; maybe even the "member" keyword is
>too
th exists() and receive no notices. The things you could do with exists
are simply impossible right now.
It would not be a replacement for is_null, nor for isset(), but a way of
writing a completely new type of code, which examined not a variable's value,
but its state within the Engine.
tures can be used to write bad code, but it
seems much easier to write bad code than good using this proposed function.
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Jefferson Gonzalez wrote on 18/09/2015 19:25:
I also believe the rfc should include type hinting of enums as has
been mentioned on this discussion. That would make enumerations more
useful and the rfc more complete.
It already mentions that:
> Enums are strongly typed and can be used as param
thing as generic as exists(),
and please don't edit the isset() documentation to recommend its usage
in any but the most unusual cases.
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language, since I've been spending a
lot of time talking down new features lately. :)
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Lester Caine wrote on 18/09/2015 17:20:
On 18/09/15 17:01, Rowan Collins wrote:
Right, so stop talking about Notices. Ignoring Notices does not get you
any closer to that goal.
And stop lecturing me about Nulls. The is_null($foo) part of that is the
part that already works fine.
ONLY if $foo
Lester Caine wrote on 18/09/2015 16:55:
On 18/09/15 16:35, Rowan Collins wrote:
If what you want to write is "if ( ! exists($foo) || is_null($foo) ) {
... }" then that is exactly what "if ( isset($foo) )" will give you,
without any notices whatsoever.
NO what I want
ate, quite separate from null.
If what you want to write is "if ( ! exists($foo) || is_null($foo) ) {
... }" then that is exactly what "if ( isset($foo) )" will give you,
without any notices whatsoever.
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Lester Caine wrote on 18/09/2015 15:39:
On 18/09/15 15:06, Rowan Collins wrote:
A PHP variable can have all sorts of states, because you can take
advantage of loose typing:
$date = new DateTime();
$date = null;
$date = 'TODAY';
$date = -1;
$date = M_PI;
And isset() returns true for
g representation for debugging, or to do a dynamic
Weekdays::getByName($_GET['day']), would be annoying.
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variable can have all sorts of states, because you can take
advantage of loose typing:
$date = new DateTime();
$date = null;
$date = 'TODAY';
$date = -1;
$date = M_PI;
etc
Those are all readily distinguishable, and don't require any changes to
the language for you to base your code around them.
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with
exists(). No room for assumptions that lead you to not check the docs.
I agree 100% with this. If we do add a new function, which I'm still
not entirely convinced of the need for, we should be very explicit about
what it does, and very careful in naming it.
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Lester Caine wrote on 18/09/2015 01:32:
On 18/09/15 00:14, Rowan Collins wrote:
I'm confused - do you mean that some rows in the result set from the
database have columns "missing", rather than just set to NULL? That's
not something I've ever come across before.
Whi
Jefferson Gonzalez wrote on 18/09/2015 03:20:
On 09/17/2015 08:05 PM, Rowan Collins wrote:
I don't think serializing to a name is particularly more inefficient
than serializing to an integer - depending on the internal
implementation, of course. Or do you mean efficiency in terms of the
l
erties of an object; so what is it about enums that makes having
an integer accessible so important?
I note that Java does supply an ordinal(), but the docs say you should
basically never use it.
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any difference, since most access would be of the form
TypeName::ValueName.
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s if not:
enum RenewalAction{
Deny( 0 ),
Approve( 1 );
public $ordinal;
}
enum Flags{
a (1 << 0),
b( 1 << 1),
c( 1 << 2),
d( 1 << 3 ); public $value; }
enum PimaryColours { RED, GREEN, BLUE }
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) so it's use is not possible may be another 'fix'?
Surely there are plenty of ways to use extract() without attempting to
give meaning to missing variables.
Regards,
--
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]
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URSDAY;
foreach ( Weekdays::getMembers() as $day_name => $day ) {
echo $day->dayNumber;
if ( $day == $today ) {
echo "Today!";
} else {
echo $day_name; // equivalently: echo $day->getName();
}
}
// Do we need a static method to access a member by name, o
On 17/09/2015 20:51, Rowan Collins wrote:
What would really be handy in a case like this is the ability to
create your own null-like values, guaranteed to be distinct from all
other values:
type hidden extends \php\basetypes\terminal {}
type default extends \php\basetypes\terminal
t
have the notion of "does not exist" in tables or result sets - the
result of a Left Join failing is the same type of Null as can be stored
in a Nullable column.
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Rowan Collins
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$checklist == deafult; // false
isset($checklist); // true
Maybe even:
type missing extends \php\basetypes\null {}
$foo = missing;
isset($foo); // false
is_null($foo); // not sure...
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--
Rowan Collins
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ons, so you couldn't use it until your code had a minimum version
requirement of 7.1. A PECL extension *might* be able to backport it to
older versions of PHP, but I doubt it would gain much adoption.
Regards,
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Rowan Collins
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Terry Cullen wrote on 17/09/2015 13:41:
Here is an example where exists would be useful;
You answered your own request:
// I should have used property_exists() instead of isset().. wasn't
expecting a null..
We already have that function, so that's alright then! :)
As I've said several time
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