> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Lind [mailto:peter.e.l...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 1:47 PM
> To: Zeev Suraski
> Cc: Dan Ackroyd ; internals@lists.php.net
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] [Re-proposed] Adopt Code of Conduct
>
> On 25 Jan
Hi,
There was a lot of traffic over the weekend, and several of you have
provided suggestions and rewordings of several documents through
https://github.com/derickr/php-community-health
I've adopted some, I have declined some (with reasons), and I've left
some unresolved.
As I wrote in my mail
Hi Stanislav,
I have made a small change to The Pragmatist Code of conduct from
'behave like an adult to 'you are expected to show others civility and
courtesy.'
> This one basically can be TLDRed as "behave as an adult". Which is nice
> if we were to agree what it means, but that is in no wa
On 25 January 2016 at 12:43, Zeev Suraski wrote:
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dan Ackroyd [mailto:dan...@basereality.com]
> > Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 12:48 AM
> > To: Stanislav Malyshev
> > Cc: internals@lists.php.net
> > Sub
> -Original Message-
> From: Dan Ackroyd [mailto:dan...@basereality.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 12:48 AM
> To: Stanislav Malyshev
> Cc: internals@lists.php.net
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] [Re-proposed] Adopt Code of Conduct
>
> A significant
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Stanislav Malyshev wrote:
> Hi!
>
>> I already submitted it here once, so I'm skipping it - but I do
>> personally like how it says the project is about code.
>
> But it's not. Not only. Code is the result, sure, at least one of, but
> there's a lot of things invol
On 25/01/16 05:23, Stanislav Malyshev wrote:
> For me, if people would use CoC to count how many times they sent a
> message on the list and then start arguing about *that* instead of the
> actual matter, then we made things worse, not better. The thought that
> somebody can be banned from discussi
Hi!
> I already submitted it here once, so I'm skipping it - but I do
> personally like how it says the project is about code.
But it's not. Not only. Code is the result, sure, at least one of, but
there's a lot of things involved that aren't code.
> Actually, IMHO it is totally enough. The best
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 6:05 AM, Stanislav Malyshev wrote:
> Hi!
>
>> Now, if we are still adamant on coming up with a CoC first I would like
>> to put forward the following 3 documents as alternatives for the
>> Contributor Covenant:
>>
>>
>> [A contribution policy for open source that
>> works](
Hi!
> You've watered down the text about bad behaviour in general and in
> particular the bits explicitly listing bad behaviour surrounding
> discussion of RFCs; I do not like that direction.
I purposefully removed some examples of bad behavior, restricting it to
minimal list showing in broad lin
Hi!
> Now, if we are still adamant on coming up with a CoC first I would like
> to put forward the following 3 documents as alternatives for the
> Contributor Covenant:
>
>
> [A contribution policy for open source that
> works](https://medium.com/@jmaynard/a-contribution-policy-for-open-source-t
Everyone,
I been following the discussion over the weekend, albeit I been hesitant
to post again I decided to write a blog post with everything in my mind
regarding the subject. Feel free to read it at
http://coderoncode.com/community/2016/01/24/on-codes-on-conduct.html
Now, back to the issu
Or, is the purpose of the CoC really a device to control perceptions, i.e.
protect the image of the PHP project and its citizens?
Well, that would also be a benefit. I don't think these are exclusive
goals. If PHP isn't inviting, people won't want to contribute.
What I fear is that if the c
On 24 January 2016 at 20:27, Stanislav Malyshev wrote:
> Hi!
> if people here agree it's a good direction
You've watered down the text about bad behaviour in general and in
particular the bits explicitly listing bad behaviour surrounding
discussion of RFCs; I do not like that direction.
A signi
Hi Sharon,
Sharon Levy wrote:
After reviewing the proposed CoC, I wonder if its good intent might
boom-a-rang and have an opposite, chilling effect. I would respectfully
suggest re-thinking the notion of a CoC for the PHP project. Some
questions to consider:
1. Who is the CoC for, i.e. who s
After reviewing the proposed CoC, I wonder if its good intent might
boom-a-rang and have an opposite, chilling effect. I would respectfully
suggest re-thinking the notion of a CoC for the PHP project. Some questions
to consider:
1. Who is the CoC for, i.e. who should be its beneficiaries? U
Hi!
As I promised, in the spirit of constructive cooperation I've written an
example of how I would like our CoC to look:
https://github.com/smalyshev/php-community-health/blob/new-coc/RFC.rst
I do not see it as a final result but rather a draft that would provide
a direction and (if people here
Hi!
> That's true, but I think that somewhat goes against the point of
> having a 'penalizing CoC'. The list of violation is supposed to be
> detailed and exhaustive.
Well, this is part of the problem with "penal code". To create and
maintain one, there are teams of very highly paid professional
> -Original Message-
> From: Stanislav Malyshev [mailto:smalys...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2016 7:51 AM
> To: Andrea Faulds ; internals@lists.php.net
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] [Re-proposed] Adopt Code of Conduct
>
> Hi!
>
> > Th
> -Original Message-
> From: Andrea Faulds [mailto:a...@ajf.me]
> Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2016 7:38 AM
> To: internals@lists.php.net
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] [Re-proposed] Adopt Code of Conduct
>
> Hi Zeev,
>
> Zeev Suraski wrote:
> > One
On 24/01/2016 04:52, Andrea Faulds wrote:
The Go one looks pretty great to me. It might not be such a bad idea
if we were to adopt it almost verbatim.
I also don't think we need to write anything new. Other people have
done that legwork for us, we are wasting our time if we try to create
some
Hi!
> This is a question I'm wondering about as well. It all seems pretty
> good, but I wonder if, for example, the lists of unwelcome behaviour and
> discrimination characteristics are sufficiently complete.
They are not supposed to be complete. Again, we're not writing a penal
code. If somebody
Hi Zeev,
Zeev Suraski wrote:
One thing which isn't clear to me is whether this:
"If you conduct yourself in a way that is explicitly forbidden by the CoC, you will
be warned and asked to stop. If you do not stop, you will be removed from our community
spaces temporarily. Repeated, wilful breac
Hi Derick,
Derick Rethans wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jan 2016, Florian Anderiasch wrote:
On 22.01.2016 15:29, Pierre Joye wrote:
Freshly adopted:
http://rubyonrails.org/conduct/
https://golang.org/conduct
Ruby (the language) is discussing the adoption of a Code of Conduct
right now, and several p
Hi,
On 23 January 2016 at 21:30, Matt Prelude wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> This is my first mail to the list so please let me know if I do anything
> wrong or if there's a better channel by which to have this kind of
> discussion.
>
> I'd like to propose adoption of an alternative code of conduct, the Go
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Prelude [mailto:m...@mprelu.de]
> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 11:31 PM
> To: internals@lists.php.net
> Subject: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] [Re-proposed] Adopt Code of Conduct
>
> Hi all,
>
> This is my first mail to the list so
Hi all,
This is my first mail to the list so please let me know if I do anything
wrong or if there's a better channel by which to have this kind of
discussion.
I'd like to propose adoption of an alternative code of conduct, the Go
Code: https://golang.org/conduct
The primary reasons for su
Hi,
On 22 January 2016 at 18:15, Chase Peeler wrote:
> 1.) I think everyone already knows how to be an adult. The fact that
> sometimes we don't act in a civil manner isn't because we don't have
> something telling us what civil behavior entails. Putting it in writing
> might make us feel good, b
On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 2:42 PM John Bafford wrote:
> Chase,
>
> On Jan 22, 2016, at 13:15, Chase Peeler wrote:
> >
> > 1.) I think everyone already knows how to be an adult. The fact that
> > sometimes we don't act in a civil manner isn't because we don't have
> > something telling us what civi
On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 1:59 PM Alda Marteau-Hardi <
php-intern...@leetchee.fr> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
>
> Hello everyone !
>
> It's my first mail here and before writing anything else I'd like to
> say that I'm thankful to Anthony and Derick for carrying this R
Chase,
On Jan 22, 2016, at 13:15, Chase Peeler wrote:
>
> 1.) I think everyone already knows how to be an adult. The fact that
> sometimes we don't act in a civil manner isn't because we don't have
> something telling us what civil behavior entails. Putting it in writing
> might make us feel goo
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
Hello everyone !
It's my first mail here and before writing anything else I'd like to
say that I'm thankful to Anthony and Derick for carrying this RFC.
Now… I have one issue with this argument :
Chase Peeler a écrit le 22/01/2016 19:15 :
> 3.) Fi
I just want to reiterate what I've said a few times before. I'm leaving the
points about why I think a Code of Conduct, in general, is a bad idea until
the end, in hopes that others will at least read my other points. I don't
think there is anything "new" in what I'm saying below either - I'm prett
On Fri, 22 Jan 2016, Florian Anderiasch wrote:
> On 22.01.2016 15:29, Pierre Joye wrote:
> >
> > Freshly adopted:
> >
> > http://rubyonrails.org/conduct/
> > https://golang.org/conduct
> >
>
> Ruby (the language) is discussing the adoption of a Code of Conduct
> right now, and several people i
On 22.01.2016 15:29, Pierre Joye wrote:
>
> Freshly adopted:
>
> http://rubyonrails.org/conduct/
> https://golang.org/conduct
>
Ruby (the language) is discussing the adoption of a Code of Conduct
right now, and several people in that thread issue what I think are
similar concerns about the word
On Jan 22, 2016 7:03 PM, "Derick Rethans" wrote:
Freshly adopted:
http://rubyonrails.org/conduct/
https://golang.org/conduct
I like both with a very good special mention for the Go one for its clarity
and completeness.
Cheers,
On 22 January 2016 at 14:29, Pierre Joye wrote:
> On Jan 22, 2016 7:03 PM, "Derick Rethans" wrote:
>
> Freshly adopted:
>
> http://rubyonrails.org/conduct/
> https://golang.org/conduct
>
> I like both with a very good special mention for the Go one for its clarity
> and completeness.
>
> Cheers,
Hi,
Sorry, this turned out to be longer than I wanted.
First of all, thanks for all your comments, well wishes and suggestions.
I can't possibly reply to all of them individually, but I think the main
take aways are below. I deliberately left out names.
- Putting a document to collaborate on o
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