Re: [PHP-DEV] Defining the PHP Group

2019-09-17 Thread Olumide Samson
I don't think there is a valid way to define "fundamental BC breaks" or "mere BC breaks", all votes will always be a reasonable vote as much as there are people to vote on it. Whats special or different about BC break that would require slim margin or consensus votes on where this is dealing with

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] DOM Living Standard API

2019-09-17 Thread Benjamin Eberlei
On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 10:01 AM Peter Bowyer wrote: > Hi Benjamin, > > I like the proposal. > > On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 at 01:40, Benjamin Eberlei > wrote: > >> I am asking about feedback especially on the section "Implementation >> Details", that explains some key differences to "PHPify" the DOM

Re: [PHP-DEV] Defining the PHP Group

2019-09-17 Thread Alexandru Pătrănescu
Thank you Zeev, I would say it's something to start a more productive discussion. Maybe not everybody would agree from the start with what you mentioned but after resonable talks, it would get to some common conclusions. If I were to summarize, there needs to be defined the voting process for:

Re: [PHP-DEV] Evolving PHP

2019-09-17 Thread Craig Duncan
On Tue, 17 Sep 2019, 09:43 Christian Schneider, wrote: > Just because there are now policy and process RFCs does not mean we could > take a step back and limit RFCs again. > I don't recall seeing anybody suggesting we can't do this. However the established process to limit RFCs would be to

Re: [PHP-DEV] Defining the PHP Group

2019-09-17 Thread Chase Peeler
I agree with pretty much everything Zeev has said. I've added a few additional thoughts On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 11:42 AM Zeev Suraski wrote: > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 3:32 PM Larry Garfield > wrote: > > > Simple question for those that keep arguing that the RFC process is only > > applicable

Re: [PHP-DEV] Defining the PHP Group

2019-09-17 Thread Zeev Suraski
On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 3:32 PM Larry Garfield wrote: > Simple question for those that keep arguing that the RFC process is only > applicable to a certain subset of issues: > > OK, so what's the alternative? > > If we wanted to make a structural or governance change to PHP, what is the >

[PHP-DEV] State of mhash?

2019-09-17 Thread Nikita Popov
Hi, I just noticed that the hash extension has a default-disabled --with-mhash option, that enables a couple of additional mhash_* functions. From what I was able to gather, mhash was an old extension that was superseded by hash, and hash provides a compatibility layer for mhash. Should these

Re: [PHP-DEV] Features related to Object Initializers

2019-09-17 Thread Larry Garfield
On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, at 7:10 PM, Mike Schinkel wrote: > > On Sep 16, 2019, at 6:20 PM, Larry Garfield wrote: > > > > I think everyone's in agreement about: > > > > 1) Making objects easier to work with. > > 2) Devs should use objects more. > > I am glad we are reaching some common ground. :-)

Re: [PHP-DEV] Defining the PHP Group

2019-09-17 Thread Larry Garfield
On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, at 6:56 PM, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > Hi! > > > For there to be a veto, of the kind that anyone can actually use, it must > > be established somewhere. > > And that's what I am concerned about. Once we start assuming the RFC > process is not for solving technical

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Object Initializer

2019-09-17 Thread Arvids Godjuks
чт, 12 сент. 2019 г. в 16:00, Michał Brzuchalski < michal.brzuchal...@gmail.com>: > Hi internals, > > I'd like to open discussion about RFC: Object Initializer. > > This proposal reduces boilerplate of object instantiation and properties > initialization in case of classes without required

Re: [PHP-DEV] Features related to Object Initializers

2019-09-17 Thread Andreas Hennings
On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 00:21, Larry Garfield wrote: > [..] > I think everyone's in agreement about: > > 1) Making objects easier to work with. > 2) Devs should use objects more. > > (Side note: I have an article submitted to php[architect] entitled "Never* > use arrays" that goes into this topic

[PHP-DEV] Re: [i...@ch2o.info] Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's declining(?) popularity

2019-09-17 Thread Mathieu CARBONNEAUX
Hi, One of the IT futur, is Container (docker like and kubernetes like) and Single Page Application... On the other language the tendancy is to simplify the start time and single start of the application (only one process start the application runc) and simplify configuration; and simplify

Re: [PHP-DEV] Features related to Object Initializers

2019-09-17 Thread Rowan Tommins
On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 01:10, Mike Schinkel wrote: > But as I said before, naming is hard — except for abstract examples where > you can just name it "Something" :-) — and developers often don't know what > object schema they will need until they have written much of the code. So > the ability

Re: [PHP-DEV] Evolving PHP

2019-09-17 Thread Christian Schneider
Am 16.09.2019 um 21:32 schrieb Nikita Popov : > Thanks for chiming in Rasmus. A few brief thoughts on recent discussions: > > * The RFC process encompasses language changes (breaking or non-breaking), > as well as policy and process decisions. We have a very wide selection of > precedent cases