Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
Hi Pierre, On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote: I do not think it has anything to do with OO or procedural but the actual gains. I see none here. Why not? PHP is distributed with set of APIs. i.e. Libraries. Tight binding with libraries and language make library update difficult . Besides zero BC, it seems it's time to introduce namespaces for internal features. Regards, -- Yasuo Ohgaki yohg...@ohgaki.net
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
On Mar 10, 2015 2:41 PM, Yasuo Ohgaki yohg...@ohgaki.net wrote: Hi Pierre and all, On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 1:48 PM, Xinchen Hui larue...@php.net wrote: Hey: On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Yasuo Ohgaki yohg...@ohgaki.net wrote: Hi Reeze, On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 12:56 PM, reeze re...@php.net wrote: It is a deprecated warning I won't break code I think. This could makes those project more maintainable (new PHP programmer could be easier to maintain the code without surprise), and it will be trivial to fix this. We could move things forward ;-) It's possible option for confusing APIs. If sizeof() is kept at least until PHP8 or PHP9, I'll vote yes for this. We just removed all DEPRECATED functions... we did not remove functions as far as I can tell. Some extension at best. then you want to brings new : anyway, I'd prefer don't do it. especially with little gain. Agreed And generally speaking, we should really think again about this flag, it has been proven to be a mess at best, or useless at worst. There are 2 camps, people who would like to keep procedural API as it is and people who would like to improve/maintain procedural API while there are no separated camps having improved/maintained OO API. It may be time to discuss how we are going to use namespace for internal functions/classes/interfaces to move forward both procedural and OO APIs so that we'll have zero BC API upgrade. I do not think it has anything to do with OO or procedural but the actual gains. I see none here. Regards, -- Yasuo Ohgaki yohg...@ohgaki.net
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 1:48 PM, Xinchen Hui larue...@php.net wrote: Hey: On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Yasuo Ohgaki yohg...@ohgaki.net wrote: Hi Reeze, On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 12:56 PM, reeze re...@php.net wrote: It is a deprecated warning I won't break code I think. This could makes those project more maintainable (new PHP programmer could be easier to maintain the code without surprise), and it will be trivial to fix this. We could move things forward ;-) It's possible option for confusing APIs. If sizeof() is kept at least until PHP8 or PHP9, I'll vote yes for this. We just removed all DEPRECATED functions... we did not remove functions as far as I can tell. Some extension at best. then you want to brings new : anyway, I'd prefer don't do it. especially with little gain. Agreed And generally speaking, we should really think again about this flag, it has been proven to be a mess at best, or useless at worst. -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
Hi Reeze, On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 12:56 PM, reeze re...@php.net wrote: It is a deprecated warning I won't break code I think. This could makes those project more maintainable (new PHP programmer could be easier to maintain the code without surprise), and it will be trivial to fix this. We could move things forward ;-) It's possible option for confusing APIs. If sizeof() is kept at least until PHP8 or PHP9, I'll vote yes for this. Regards, -- Yasuo Ohgaki yohg...@ohgaki.net
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
Hey: On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Yasuo Ohgaki yohg...@ohgaki.net wrote: Hi Reeze, On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 12:56 PM, reeze re...@php.net wrote: It is a deprecated warning I won't break code I think. This could makes those project more maintainable (new PHP programmer could be easier to maintain the code without surprise), and it will be trivial to fix this. We could move things forward ;-) It's possible option for confusing APIs. If sizeof() is kept at least until PHP8 or PHP9, I'll vote yes for this. We just removed all DEPRECATED functions... then you want to brings new : anyway, I'd prefer don't do it. especially with little gain. thanks Regards, -- Yasuo Ohgaki yohg...@ohgaki.net -- Xinchen Hui @Laruence http://www.laruence.com/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
Hi Pierre and all, On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 1:48 PM, Xinchen Hui larue...@php.net wrote: Hey: On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Yasuo Ohgaki yohg...@ohgaki.net wrote: Hi Reeze, On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 12:56 PM, reeze re...@php.net wrote: It is a deprecated warning I won't break code I think. This could makes those project more maintainable (new PHP programmer could be easier to maintain the code without surprise), and it will be trivial to fix this. We could move things forward ;-) It's possible option for confusing APIs. If sizeof() is kept at least until PHP8 or PHP9, I'll vote yes for this. We just removed all DEPRECATED functions... we did not remove functions as far as I can tell. Some extension at best. then you want to brings new : anyway, I'd prefer don't do it. especially with little gain. Agreed And generally speaking, we should really think again about this flag, it has been proven to be a mess at best, or useless at worst. There are 2 camps, people who would like to keep procedural API as it is and people who would like to improve/maintain procedural API while there are no separated camps having improved/maintained OO API. It may be time to discuss how we are going to use namespace for internal functions/classes/interfaces to move forward both procedural and OO APIs so that we'll have zero BC API upgrade. Regards, -- Yasuo Ohgaki yohg...@ohgaki.net
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 2:51 AM, reeze re...@php.net wrote: Hi internals, I'd like to deprecate function: sizeof() [1][2], which is an alias of count(). some people expect it return the memory size of the variable. The doc page's[1] user contributed notes indicate that too. What do you think? As I tend to like the idea to cleanup things, adding warning and deprecation warnings for the sake of it is not too appealing to me. Especially for this kind of things. Cheers, -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
Hi, On 8 March 2015 at 00:41, Kalle Sommer Nielsen ka...@php.net wrote: Hi 2015-03-07 16:51 GMT+01:00 reeze re...@php.net: Hi internals, I'd like to deprecate function: sizeof() [1][2], which is an alias of count(). some people expect it return the memory size of the variable. The doc page's[1] user contributed notes indicate that too. What do you think? 'm a big -1 on this, while I know it returns the memory size in a C perspective, I think it makes perfect sense to remain an alias, it would break lots of applications for a very tiny to nothing gain. It is a deprecated warning I won't break code I think. This could makes those project more maintainable (new PHP programmer could be easier to maintain the code without surprise), and it will be trivial to fix this. We could move things forward ;-) -- regards, Kalle Sommer Nielsen ka...@php.net -- Reeze Xia http://reeze.cn
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
On 8 March 2015 at 09:39, Yasuo Ohgaki yohg...@ohgaki.net wrote: Hi all, On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 5:41 AM, Stanislav Malyshev smalys...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to deprecate function: sizeof() [1][2], which is an alias of count(). some people expect it return the memory size of the variable. Why? So, some people are wrong, why we need to mess with the language to accommodate them? I don't think it is a good idea. The same opinion. Unless there are good enough reasons, these aliases should be kept. If Consistent function names RFC passes, aliases will be Yes, I think so, it didn't remove the alias, but propose use use count() instead. listed in main function page only. It may reduce confusions hopefully. That might helps. Regards, -- Yasuo Ohgaki yohg...@ohgaki.net -- Reeze Xia http://reeze.cn
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
On 9 March 2015 at 06:44, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 2:51 AM, reeze re...@php.net wrote: Hi internals, I'd like to deprecate function: sizeof() [1][2], which is an alias of count(). some people expect it return the memory size of the variable. The doc page's[1] user contributed notes indicate that too. What do you think? As I tend to like the idea to cleanup things, adding warning and deprecation warnings for the sake of it is not too appealing to me. Especially for this kind of things. Yes it will not really fix the confusion, and it is a small problem, I know few decent projects use sizeof, we could make the old code involve and more consist. sizeof() was kept because of BC since PHP4.0, count() should be the recommended function. Cheers, -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org -- Reeze Xia http://reeze.cn
[PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
Hi internals, I'd like to deprecate function: sizeof() [1][2], which is an alias of count(). some people expect it return the memory size of the variable. The doc page's[1] user contributed notes indicate that too. What do you think? [1] http://php.net/sizeof [2] https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/1161 [3] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3974385/php-array-count-or-sizeof -- Reeze Xia http://reeze.cn
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
Hi, 2015-03-07 17:41 GMT+01:00 Kalle Sommer Nielsen ka...@php.net: I'm a big -1 on this, while I know it returns the memory size in a C perspective, I think it makes perfect sense to remain an alias, it would break lots of applications for a very tiny to nothing gain. I don't think the alias make sense and is really misleading and I've seen sizeof(abc); often enough (Don't get me wrong that's equally bad with count, but sizeof encourages that usage, imo). Having two functions that do exactly the same using different names for no good reason (one of them referring to a different operation in a more popular language) isn't optimal. Code using a deprecated sizeof call is trivial to fix. But:. I'm not sure if the cost involved is really worth it, after all some big projects enforce sizeof over count and github returns over 1.2m results for sizeof+php (many false positives from html files documenting c code etc., still a huge number) . Random first two projects with over 500 stars/or big installation base I found: http://area51.phpbb.com/docs/31x/coding-guidelines.html#general : Use sizeof instead of count https://github.com/atoum/atoum/blob/master/CC.md#arrays : To get length of an array, use sizeof instead of count (no technical reason about that, it's just the current convention). On the other side: Removal of sizeof is doable with a patch release for almost all projects and shouldn't really require more than 5 to 10 minutes (+ time to review the diff) for most projects. -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
On 07/03/15 17:35, Sebastian B.-Hagensen wrote: On the other side: Removal of sizeof is doable with a patch release for almost all projects and shouldn't really require more than 5 to 10 minutes (+ time to review the diff) for most projects. If taken in conjunction with tidying up the IEEE C standard consistency then dropping what is basically the wrong use of sizeof makes a lot of sense? Eventually using sizeof for the physical size of elements in line with it's C use would be more consistent. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
Hi
2015-03-07 18:35 GMT+01:00 Sebastian B.-Hagensen sbj.ml.r...@gmail.com:
Hi,
I don't think the alias make sense and is really misleading and I've
seen sizeof(abc); often enough (Don't get me wrong that's equally
bad with count, but sizeof encourages that usage, imo).
Having two functions that do exactly the same using different names
for no good reason (one of them referring to a different operation in
a more popular language) isn't optimal. Code using a deprecated sizeof
call is trivial to fix.
Well we could make count()/sizeof() work for strings, so that if:
C:\ php -r echo sizeof('abc');
3
although it would not really accomplish much imo., I think it is more
of what background you come from that makes the most sense to me, I
got into PHP before C and I enjoy sizeof more for array sizes than
count, but that is just a pure preference.
--
regards,
Kalle Sommer Nielsen
ka...@php.net
--
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
On 7 March 2015 at 20:42, Kalle Sommer Nielsen ka...@php.net wrote:
Hi
Well we could make count()/sizeof() work for strings, so that if:
C:\ php -r echo sizeof('abc');
3
although it would not really accomplish much imo., I think it is more
of what background you come from that makes the most sense to me, I
got into PHP before C and I enjoy sizeof more for array sizes than
count, but that is just a pure preference.
Maybe count() and sizeof() should retain original functionality for the
sake of compatibility, but should emit warning if used on non-array/object
variables?
This seems like a gentle way to steer users towards using strlen() on
strings.
Using sizeof(null) seems somewhat legitimate, but sizeof(asdf) seems like
a newbie mistake at counting characters in a string.
b.
PS: All above assumes the functionality of sizeof() does not change. If
sizeof() functionality should be changed to be more aligned with it's C
counterpart, then above argument does not stand.
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
Hi 2015-03-07 16:51 GMT+01:00 reeze re...@php.net: Hi internals, I'd like to deprecate function: sizeof() [1][2], which is an alias of count(). some people expect it return the memory size of the variable. The doc page's[1] user contributed notes indicate that too. What do you think? 'm a big -1 on this, while I know it returns the memory size in a C perspective, I think it makes perfect sense to remain an alias, it would break lots of applications for a very tiny to nothing gain. -- regards, Kalle Sommer Nielsen ka...@php.net -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
Hi! I'd like to deprecate function: sizeof() [1][2], which is an alias of count(). some people expect it return the memory size of the variable. Why? So, some people are wrong, why we need to mess with the language to accommodate them? I don't think it is a good idea. -- Stas Malyshev smalys...@gmail.com -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Deprecate function sizeof()
Hi all, On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 5:41 AM, Stanislav Malyshev smalys...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to deprecate function: sizeof() [1][2], which is an alias of count(). some people expect it return the memory size of the variable. Why? So, some people are wrong, why we need to mess with the language to accommodate them? I don't think it is a good idea. The same opinion. Unless there are good enough reasons, these aliases should be kept. If Consistent function names RFC passes, aliases will be listed in main function page only. It may reduce confusions hopefully. Regards, -- Yasuo Ohgaki yohg...@ohgaki.net
