Re: [PHP-DEV] Moving PHP documentation to Git repository
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Christoph Rosse wrote: > On 25.06.2013 08:46, Christian Stoller wrote: >> >> Hi internals. >> >> What do you think about moving the PHP documentation to a Git repository, >> mirrored on Github? Doing this would make it possible for everybody to >> extend the documentation easily by creating pull requests. >> >> Today one has to get an SVN account to edit the docu or you have to use >> https://edit.php.net/ which does not work as expected (at least for me when >> I tried to update some German documentation). My changes have not been >> integrated for some months (I had to write an email to somebody of the doc >> team to apply the changes). >> >> Symfony does it this way (see https://github.com/symfony/symfony-docs/) >> and I like it very much. It is really easy to extend/update parts of the >> docu which are not complete or outdated and I am sure that it is comfortable >> and timesaving for the doc team, too. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Best regards >> Christian >> > > As one who's had very similar experiences when trying to update some > documentation via. edit.php.net (no feedback, no integration etc.) I would > really love to see this feature. Could you guys fill out http://www.php.net/git-php.php please? - It is also important to use the correct mailinglist :) As for the move to Git, if someone is willing to do the work then by all means go for it - but I don't understand how that is some magic fix? You are complaining about patches being available but not applied, how would github fix that? Doesn't that just add yet another platform that we don't have manpower to manage? Also, our current tooling will need a *lot of work*, but the online editor and our revision control for translations to name two big jobs. The docs and websites don't operate in the same way as internals@ does. We employ a lot of trust in these neck of the woods, people with karma to do stuff can actually do what they think is best without going through daunting process, so once you've been around for a little while and get a neat idea you want to work on, you don't have to ask anyone or get permission - just do it! If you want to work on git support for our tools, go for it. There isn't any point in discussing things and coming to decisions when there is noone that is able or willing to do the work. If there work is there however.. :D -Hannes -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Re: [PHP-DEV] Moving PHP documentation to Git repository
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 1:05 PM, David Soria Parra wrote: > On 2013-06-25, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > > there were some initial discussion and work done on moving the docs to > git, > > see > > https://wiki.php.net/doc/git > > > http://git.php.net/?p=3Dweb/doc-editor.git;a=3Dshortlog;h=3Drefs/heads/GIT_= > > READY > > http://marc.info/?l=3Dphpdoc&m=3D132321958514090&w=3D2 > > > > but it seems that we lost momentum, but I think that this isn't a > technical > > problem, just lack of interest (svn and the online editor just works for > > the regulars), maybe others have different opinions on this. > > and I'm fairly certain that the slow integration of the patches also not > a > > technical problem as well. > > I think that it would worth more to figure out and fix the underlying > > problem which causes the current delay for integrating the incoming > patches= > > . > > moving to git/github without fixining the underlying issue would only > mean > > that we switched to pull requests not getting accepted in a timely > > manner(which is unfortunately common with our other git/github repos). > > generally speaking i am in favor in moving more and more to git. we lost > momentum > and I am stuck with a new job and RMing. I can help with technical > questions > but don't hav emuch time implementing it. > I'm also in favor of moving to Git. The amount of contributions to the brazilian portuguese translation would be much more significant if we had a streamlined contribution system, which pull requests on Github allow quite easily. What are the current problems of Git migration?
Re: [PHP-DEV] Moving PHP documentation to Git repository
On 2013-06-25, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > there were some initial discussion and work done on moving the docs to git, > see > https://wiki.php.net/doc/git > http://git.php.net/?p=3Dweb/doc-editor.git;a=3Dshortlog;h=3Drefs/heads/GIT_= > READY > http://marc.info/?l=3Dphpdoc&m=3D132321958514090&w=3D2 > > but it seems that we lost momentum, but I think that this isn't a technical > problem, just lack of interest (svn and the online editor just works for > the regulars), maybe others have different opinions on this. > and I'm fairly certain that the slow integration of the patches also not a > technical problem as well. > I think that it would worth more to figure out and fix the underlying > problem which causes the current delay for integrating the incoming patches= > . > moving to git/github without fixining the underlying issue would only mean > that we switched to pull requests not getting accepted in a timely > manner(which is unfortunately common with our other git/github repos). generally speaking i am in favor in moving more and more to git. we lost momentum and I am stuck with a new job and RMing. I can help with technical questions but don't hav emuch time implementing it. -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] RE: [PHP-DEV] Moving PHP documentation to Git repository
Hi, Just my two cent. The online editor is actually a greats tool to edit & commit some changes into the documentation for *all* translations. Please, don't view only the EN part of the documentation. If we plan to move to GitHub, there were a lot of work to do into the editor to continue to use it. And I'm really not sur that I have the time to do it. I know there is actually a bug witch cause that the change aren't deployed as they should be. I try to find some time to work on it, and I'm sur that i can provide a fix in some few weeks. Just be patient with this, sorry. So, as it was sayed, the delay between reviewed a patch with the editor or the delay to review un pull request with GitHub is the same : if there are no people to do the first, it's the same for the second ;) Grest, Yannick 2013/6/25 Christian Stoller > > That aside: resources is also the issue with the online editor. We have > > too few people working on docs, so in the end it doesn't make much > > difference if they don't have time to review edit.php.net or github. > > (while reviewing on edit.php.net has the benefit that it can directly > > validate the docbook, github can't) > > The difference is that the Git repo with its translations could be viewed > very easily via Github. And it is possible to comment on pull requests or > discuss them. > Plus: Others can see what pull requests have been created already and you > can see at a first glance how many open pull requests there are. > > When I used the online editor, I changed something but I didn't know if it > has been saved correctly (especially when the changes have not been > deployed after weeks) or if there is somebody who has ever seen my changes. > In Github you see what you have changed. That motivates to work on ;-) > > > Christian > > >
RE: [PHP-DEV] Moving PHP documentation to Git repository
> That aside: resources is also the issue with the online editor. We have > too few people working on docs, so in the end it doesn't make much > difference if they don't have time to review edit.php.net or github. > (while reviewing on edit.php.net has the benefit that it can directly > validate the docbook, github can't) The difference is that the Git repo with its translations could be viewed very easily via Github. And it is possible to comment on pull requests or discuss them. Plus: Others can see what pull requests have been created already and you can see at a first glance how many open pull requests there are. When I used the online editor, I changed something but I didn't know if it has been saved correctly (especially when the changes have not been deployed after weeks) or if there is somebody who has ever seen my changes. In Github you see what you have changed. That motivates to work on ;-) Christian
Re: [PHP-DEV] Moving PHP documentation to Git repository
On 06/25/2013 11:10 AM, Johannes Schlüter wrote: That aside: resources is also the issue with the online editor. We have too few people working on docs, so in the end it doesn't make much difference if they don't have time to review edit.php.net or github. (while reviewing on edit.php.net has the benefit that it can directly validate the docbook, github can't) i have to confess that i've only shown the documentation very minimal love in recent years (damn, YEARS! ... when i first started, or better was forced, to use and fix PHP this was supposed to be a 6 month job only ...) In the situations where i'd actually might have time and leisure to do so the web editor fails me though: * on the train or when otherwise mostly offline it doesn't work for obvious reasons * in front of the TV or when being stuck in hotel rooms the lack of screen real estate makes edit.php a not tooo plearurable experience it is usable on small screens somehow, but for a good experience you should have a large primary screen to run it on and a secondary for looking things up (dictionary/translator, source code, ...) (and yes, my multitasking capabilities are far from perfect, but they are for sure good enough for doing translations and watching TV at the same time for most of todays TV content) Doing things "the old way" on the other hand is severely blocked by me not wanting to touch SVN in any way anymore unless i'm payed for it (i'd even prefer doing CVS again instead of "too-little-too-late" SVN, but that's a different story ...) johannes (who is one of the bad people not really actively helping with docs) Is there an official community for that which i could join? ;) -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Moving PHP documentation to Git repository
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 5:10 AM, Johannes Schlüter wrote: > On Tue, 2013-06-25 at 08:46 +0200, Christian Stoller wrote: > > Hi internals. > > > > What do you think about moving the PHP documentation to a Git > > repository, mirrored on Github? Doing this would make it possible for > > everybody to extend the documentation easily by creating pull > > requests. > > Basically that is good. To the best of my knowledge the issue though, is > not will but time. Migrating the docs is not just converting the repo, > like with PECL repos but changing the supporting infrastructure. For > instance there are tools which help to identify outdated translations > and the mentioned editor which all have to be adopted. If you want to > help there the docs group certainly would welcome it. > > That aside: resources is also the issue with the online editor. We have > too few people working on docs, so in the end it doesn't make much > difference if they don't have time to review edit.php.net or github. > (while reviewing on edit.php.net has the benefit that it can directly > validate the docbook, github can't) > I'm all for docs moving to git, but I have to say it would be a purely cosmetic move. This won't change the pace at which our patches are getting through or the fact that the lack of man-power can be overwhelming for docs. The documentation is over 10,000 pages and growing with multiple translations. PHP also suffers from a problem where patches go into php-src that never get into the changelog for some reason and end up becoming documentation bugs. I've definitely fixed a number of those in bugs.php.netand I know I'm not the only one that has complained about this problem. It's hard to keep up with the pace at which PHP changes and consistently document that. I will say that we do need more people helping out with docs before we should consider investing the resources in moving docs to git. Again, this move would only serve to be superficial in the long-run. > > johannes > (who is one of the bad people not really actively helping with docs) > So YOU'RE the one! (*kidding* it's been a while since I've made some commits myself) > > > -- > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > >
Re: [PHP-DEV] Moving PHP documentation to Git repository
On Tue, 2013-06-25 at 08:46 +0200, Christian Stoller wrote: > Hi internals. > > What do you think about moving the PHP documentation to a Git > repository, mirrored on Github? Doing this would make it possible for > everybody to extend the documentation easily by creating pull > requests. Basically that is good. To the best of my knowledge the issue though, is not will but time. Migrating the docs is not just converting the repo, like with PECL repos but changing the supporting infrastructure. For instance there are tools which help to identify outdated translations and the mentioned editor which all have to be adopted. If you want to help there the docs group certainly would welcome it. That aside: resources is also the issue with the online editor. We have too few people working on docs, so in the end it doesn't make much difference if they don't have time to review edit.php.net or github. (while reviewing on edit.php.net has the benefit that it can directly validate the docbook, github can't) johannes (who is one of the bad people not really actively helping with docs) -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Moving PHP documentation to Git repository
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Pierre Joye wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 9:45 AM, Christoph Rosse > wrote: > >> On 25.06.2013 08:46, Christian Stoller wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi internals. > >>> > >>> What do you think about moving the PHP documentation to a Git > repository, > >>> mirrored on Github? Doing this would make it possible for everybody to > >>> extend the documentation easily by creating pull requests. > >>> > >>> Today one has to get an SVN account to edit the docu or you have to use > >>> https://edit.php.net/ which does not work as expected (at least for > me when > >>> I tried to update some German documentation). My changes have not been > >>> integrated for some months (I had to write an email to somebody of the > doc > >>> team to apply the changes). > >>> > >>> Symfony does it this way (see https://github.com/symfony/symfony-docs/ > ) > >>> and I like it very much. It is really easy to extend/update parts of > the > >>> docu which are not complete or outdated and I am sure that it is > comfortable > >>> and timesaving for the doc team, too. > >>> > >>> What do you think? > >>> > >>> Best regards > >>> Christian > >>> > >> > >> As one who's had very similar experiences when trying to update some > >> documentation via. edit.php.net (no feedback, no integration etc.) I > would > >> really love to see this feature. > > > > Really? That's not too good as we have been promoted this tool for > > some time already. > > > > However adding the php-doc list to CC so they can answer and give us > > some feedback/info. > > > > Cheers, > > -- > > Pierre > > > > @pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org > there were some initial discussion and work done on moving the docs to git, see https://wiki.php.net/doc/git http://git.php.net/?p=web/doc-editor.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/GIT_READY http://marc.info/?l=phpdoc&m=132321958514090&w=2 but it seems that we lost momentum, but I think that this isn't a technical problem, just lack of interest (svn and the online editor just works for the regulars), maybe others have different opinions on this. and I'm fairly certain that the slow integration of the patches also not a technical problem as well. I think that it would worth more to figure out and fix the underlying problem which causes the current delay for integrating the incoming patches. moving to git/github without fixining the underlying issue would only mean that we switched to pull requests not getting accepted in a timely manner(which is unfortunately common with our other git/github repos). -- Ferenc Kovács @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu
Re: [PHP-DEV] Moving PHP documentation to Git repository
and now with the right name... On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Pierre Joye wrote: > On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 9:45 AM, Christoph Rosse > wrote: >> On 25.06.2013 08:46, Christian Stoller wrote: >>> >>> Hi internals. >>> >>> What do you think about moving the PHP documentation to a Git repository, >>> mirrored on Github? Doing this would make it possible for everybody to >>> extend the documentation easily by creating pull requests. >>> >>> Today one has to get an SVN account to edit the docu or you have to use >>> https://edit.php.net/ which does not work as expected (at least for me when >>> I tried to update some German documentation). My changes have not been >>> integrated for some months (I had to write an email to somebody of the doc >>> team to apply the changes). >>> >>> Symfony does it this way (see https://github.com/symfony/symfony-docs/) >>> and I like it very much. It is really easy to extend/update parts of the >>> docu which are not complete or outdated and I am sure that it is comfortable >>> and timesaving for the doc team, too. >>> >>> What do you think? >>> >>> Best regards >>> Christian >>> >> >> As one who's had very similar experiences when trying to update some >> documentation via. edit.php.net (no feedback, no integration etc.) I would >> really love to see this feature. > > Really? That's not too good as we have been promoted this tool for > some time already. > > However adding the php-doc list to CC so they can answer and give us > some feedback/info. > > Cheers, > -- > Pierre > > @pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Moving PHP documentation to Git repository
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 9:45 AM, Christoph Rosse wrote: > On 25.06.2013 08:46, Christian Stoller wrote: >> >> Hi internals. >> >> What do you think about moving the PHP documentation to a Git repository, >> mirrored on Github? Doing this would make it possible for everybody to >> extend the documentation easily by creating pull requests. >> >> Today one has to get an SVN account to edit the docu or you have to use >> https://edit.php.net/ which does not work as expected (at least for me when >> I tried to update some German documentation). My changes have not been >> integrated for some months (I had to write an email to somebody of the doc >> team to apply the changes). >> >> Symfony does it this way (see https://github.com/symfony/symfony-docs/) >> and I like it very much. It is really easy to extend/update parts of the >> docu which are not complete or outdated and I am sure that it is comfortable >> and timesaving for the doc team, too. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Best regards >> Christian >> > > As one who's had very similar experiences when trying to update some > documentation via. edit.php.net (no feedback, no integration etc.) I would > really love to see this feature. Really? That's not too good as we have been promoted this tool for some time already. However adding the php-doc list to CC so they can answer and give us some feedback/info. Cheers, -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Moving PHP documentation to Git repository
On 25/06/13 07:46, Christian Stoller wrote: What do you think about moving the PHP documentation to a Git repository, mirrored on Github? Doing this would make it possible for everybody to extend the documentation easily by creating pull requests. Today one has to get an SVN account to edit the docu or you have to use https://edit.php.net/ which does not work as expected (at least for me when I tried to update some German documentation). My changes have not been integrated for some months (I had to write an email to somebody of the doc team to apply the changes). Symfony does it this way (see https://github.com/symfony/symfony-docs/) and I like it very much. It is really easy to extend/update parts of the docu which are not complete or outdated and I am sure that it is comfortable and timesaving for the doc team, too. +1 Regards Terry Ellison
Re: [PHP-DEV] Moving PHP documentation to Git repository
On 25.06.2013 08:46, Christian Stoller wrote: Hi internals. What do you think about moving the PHP documentation to a Git repository, mirrored on Github? Doing this would make it possible for everybody to extend the documentation easily by creating pull requests. Today one has to get an SVN account to edit the docu or you have to use https://edit.php.net/ which does not work as expected (at least for me when I tried to update some German documentation). My changes have not been integrated for some months (I had to write an email to somebody of the doc team to apply the changes). Symfony does it this way (see https://github.com/symfony/symfony-docs/) and I like it very much. It is really easy to extend/update parts of the docu which are not complete or outdated and I am sure that it is comfortable and timesaving for the doc team, too. What do you think? Best regards Christian As one who's had very similar experiences when trying to update some documentation via. edit.php.net (no feedback, no integration etc.) I would really love to see this feature. best regards christoph -- Christoph Rosse Softwaredevelopment | Operations 2bePUBLISHED Internet Services Austria GmbH Brünner Straße 85/2, 1210 Wien Tel.: 0043.1.9971500 Fax.: 0043.1.997150066 E-mail: cro...@2bepublished.at Skype: christoph.rosse Home: http://www.2bepublished.at -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
