On Mon, 2004-06-28 at 07:06, Glenn Holmer wrote:
> Gerald Bauer wrote:
> > Tom writes:
> >
> > Sun invariably says that they can't think of what
> > problems open source Java would solve that aren't
> > already solved. Of course that's ridiculous.
>
> Why?
>
> > It is
> > pretty hard for Linu
Gerald Bauer wrote:
Hello,
Allow me to highlight the blog story by Tom Tromey -
Here's another good take on the issue:
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/wlg/5135
--
Glenn Holmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Programmer/Analyst
Charles Forsythe wrote:
Quoting Diego Pons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Think about it, perhaps we would have already JVM's on silicon on the
cheap instead of needing these gigaherz machines to run java properly.
JVMs on silicon? Like, maybe, the Ajile AJ-100?
I'd be interested in comments on the ARM-926
Quoting Diego Pons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Think about it, perhaps we would have already JVM's on silicon on the
> cheap instead of needing these gigaherz machines to run java properly.
JVMs on silicon? Like, maybe, the Ajile AJ-100?
http://www.ajile.com/downloads/aj100.pdf
--
Breaking t
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:20:11 -0500
Glenn Holmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't think anybody consciously wants to break compatibility,
> but I think it would simply be too tempting to add Just One Cool
> Feature(tm). That's the way Open Source works: when a programmer
> feels an itch, he co
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:20:11 -0500
Glenn Holmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't think anybody consciously wants to break compatibility,
> but I think it would simply be too tempting to add Just One Cool
> Feature(tm). That's the way Open Source works: when a programmer
> feels an itch, he co
Glenn Holmer wrote:
I don't think anybody consciously wants to break compatibility,
but I think it would simply be too tempting to add Just One Cool
Feature(tm). That's the way Open Source works: when a programmer
feels an itch, he codes. And that's OK for the kernel, or maybe
XFree86, and for ap
Gerald Bauer wrote:
unfree.
On top of this, non-free core software is something
to be avoided in the community. This overly-controlled
approach on Sun's part is losing the Linux desktop to
.NET.
.NET is freerer than java?
--
To
Glenn Holmer wrote:
Gerald Bauer wrote:
Tom writes:
Sun invariably says that they can't think of what
problems open source Java would solve that aren't
already solved. Of course that's ridiculous.
Why?
It is
pretty hard for Linux vendors to ship a working JRE on
their platform if they make any
Glenn Holmer wrote:
Gerald Bauer wrote:
Tom writes:
Sun invariably says that they can't think of what
problems open source Java would solve that aren't
already solved. Of course that's ridiculous.
Why?
It is
pretty hard for Linux vendors to ship a working JRE on
their platform if they make any
Hello,
Allow me to highlight the blog story by Tom Tromey -
of GNU Compiler for Java (gcj) fame - that points out
some questions to ask if you attend the Java Open
Source Debate at Sun's JavaOne conference. True to
style Sun has - of course - not invited any actual
Free Java hacker t
Hello,
Allow me to highlight the blog story by Tom Tromey -
of GNU Compiler for Java (gcj) fame - that points out
some questions to ask if you attend the Java Open
Source Debate at Sun's JavaOne conference. True to
style Sun has - of course - not invited any actual
Free Java hacker t
Calvin Austin wrote:
> I had a simple roadmap up to 1.5 and some performance graphs between 1.3.0 to
> 1.4
>
> Questions from the attendees ranged from 64bit hammer support to readiness of
> the new ibm pthreads library. Would the libc_wait symbol be fixed for glibc
> 2.2.5. Can the performance t
I made the difficult decision to go to a different BOF than 1579
(J2SE on Linux). Can anyone who was there give a rundown on what
was discussed?
--
=
Glenn Holmer ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--
/Linux at JavaOne
I may have missed this ... will this be covering GCJ?
Compiled Java has some nice advantages. Including
more natural and efficient integration with native code,
as well as faster startup and the ability to do some
aggressive ahead-of-time optimizations, and working
better with
> >
> >Chris!
> >
> >
> >I missed your talk at JavaOne, and not just because it was so early in
> >the morning. ;-)
> >
> >I missed the entire conference because I had some important things to
> >take care of, i.e. work!
> >
> >
-----
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Chris!
I missed your talk at JavaOne, and not just because it was so early in
the morning. ;-)
I m
> > I may have missed this ... will this be covering GCJ?
> >
> > Compiled Java has some nice advantages. Including
> > more natural and efficient integration with native code,
> > as well as faster startup and the ability to do some
> > aggressive ahead-of-time optimizations, and working
> > be
On 31 May 2001 16:09:38 -0700, David Brownell wrote:
> I may have missed this ... will this be covering GCJ?
>
> Compiled Java has some nice advantages. Including
> more natural and efficient integration with native code,
> as well as faster startup and the ability to do some
> aggressive ahead-
I may have missed this ... will this be covering GCJ?
Compiled Java has some nice advantages. Including
more natural and efficient integration with native code,
as well as faster startup and the ability to do some
aggressive ahead-of-time optimizations, and working
better with standard OS tools
Christopher Smith wrote:
> On 31 May 2001 10:58:08 -0700, ed phillips wrote:
> > Thanks for providing this pre-session back and forth. Although I'm excited by
>
> Probably the only way I can get people to show up for 8:30am (someone at
> KeyMedia obviously doesn't like me).
>
> > the prospects a
Christopher Smith wrote:
> On 31 May 2001 06:45:08 +1000, Jesus M. Salvo Jr. wrote:
> > > 4) Use JNI to use Linux's various asynch I/O API's.
> > Option 4) is how BEA WebLogic Server does it, ( I think ). They have this
> > libmuxer.so ( which is also available for Solaris -- dont know why when J
Hi,
will there be anyone involved with the ARM / iPAQ ports around at the
JavaOne ?
Thomas
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Hash: SHA1
On Thu, 31 May 2001 08:24, Christopher Smith wrote:
> On 31 May 2001 06:45:08 +1000, Jesus M. Salvo Jr. wrote:
> > > 4) Use JNI to use Linux's various asynch I/O API's.
> >
> > Option 4) is how BEA WebLogic Server does it, ( I think ). They have this
On 31 May 2001 06:45:08 +1000, Jesus M. Salvo Jr. wrote:
> > 4) Use JNI to use Linux's various asynch I/O API's.
> Option 4) is how BEA WebLogic Server does it, ( I think ). They have this
> libmuxer.so ( which is also available for Solaris -- dont know why when JVM
> for Solaris makes use of sola
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
I meant this to be sent to the mailing list, but I selected "Reply"
originally instead of "Reply To All"
- -- Forwarded Message --
Subject: Re: Java/Linux at JavaOne
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 21:23:46 +1000
Fro
--On Tuesday, May 29, 2001 21:25:20 -0700 ed phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> It might be helpful and may even spawn other suggestions if
> you were to flesh out in a post some of the aspects, as you articulate
> them, of scaling Java on Linux. Perhaps a kind of pre-BoF statement of
> the to
gt; > Java Technology-Based Application Server
> > Java/Linux performance talk
> > http://servlet.java.sun.com/javaone/conf/sessions/934/0-sf2001.jsp
> > Friday June 8, 8:30 AM - 9:30 AM
>
> That's mine. It should be fun. We're mostly going to focus
-On Tuesday, May 29, 2001 15:01:25 -0700 Nelson Minar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > The Penguin Gets Pumped Up . . . Turning Linux into a High-Powered
> > Java Technology-Based Application Server
> > Java/Linux performance talk
> > http://servlet.java.sun.com/ja
--On Tuesday, May 29, 2001 15:01:25 -0700 Nelson Minar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> The Penguin Gets Pumped Up . . . Turning Linux into a High-Powered
> Java Technology-Based Application Server
> Java/Linux performance talk
> http://servlet.java.sun.com/javaone/conf/session
Took a quick look at the JavaOne schedule and saw two major Linux
related talks:
The Java 2 Platform, Standard Edition (J2SE) on Linux
Sun telling us what's up
http://servlet.java.sun.com/javaone/conf/sessions/1641/0-sf2001.jsp
Tuesday June 5, 2:45 PM - 3:45 PM
The Penguin Gets Pump
more info
> or even documentation on it.
Calvin is doing "The JavaTM 2 Platform, Standard Edition (J2SETM) on
Linux":
http://servlet.java.sun.com/javaone/conf/sessions/1641/0-sf2001.jsp
And I think he'll also be at "The JavaTM 2 Platform on Linux" BOF:
http://servlet.
Hi all,
Is Calvin or anyone else giving any talks on their work to get
the latest JDK and Hotspot going on Linux?
Calvin sent some intriguing hints about the work he had to do
to get Hotspot performing well on Linux, but I'd like more info
or even documentation on it.
Also, who is using native
Richard Johnson wrote:
> It would be good if the Java reference platform had
> a java.util.Scheduler that perhaps configured itself
> with a policy object (java.util.SchedulerPolicy interface)
> whose implementations could do such things as query the system for
> resources (processor count, memor
Nelson Minar wrote:
> What a great discussion this has been!
>
> >I don't think anyone is arguing that high thread counts are always
> >wrong or that the current implementation is the best of all worlds.
>
> Phew!
>
> >Yes, the Linux kernel can do better and Java implementations can do better
>
>
What a great discussion this has been!
>I don't think anyone is arguing that high thread counts are always
>wrong or that the current implementation is the best of all worlds.
Phew!
>Yes, the Linux kernel can do better and Java implementations can do better
And in the current situation, we hav
On Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 09:36:27AM -0700, Matt Welsh wrote:
>
> Juergen Kreileder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > I still haven't seen one good argument for using thousands of threads
> > except for working around Java's _current_ IO limitations and doing
> > better on benchmarks which test work-
Michael Thome wrote:
1. Java proposes Thread as a general-purpose language
abstraction,
complete with syntactic support for synchronization. Any Java
VM
implementation which significantly limits the ability to use this
abstraction violates the spirit of the language design (if not the
letter, gi
> "Matt" == Matt Welsh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Michael Thome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> Agreed - beginners *do* tend to use too many threads,
> This has nothing to do with "beginners"!
Sorry - I didn't mean to imply that I think that use of many threads
is a bad idea... (quit
Michael Thome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Agreed - beginners *do* tend to use too many threads,
This has nothing to do with "beginners"!
Currently, you *cannot* write a Web server in Java without using one
thread per socket connection. You can limit the number of "active"
connections, a
Juergen Kreileder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I still haven't seen one good argument for using thousands of threads
> except for working around Java's _current_ IO limitations and doing
> better on benchmarks which test work-arounds for these IO limitations.
This is the same kind of argument t
Michael Thome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Yes - one would expect a general purpose hybrid/two-tier threading
> library to be at least at complex as the green threads implementation:
> presumably somewhat hairier.
I would go even further. If you are going to spend a huge amount of
effort to o
> "Juergen" == Juergen Kreileder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Matt" == Matt Welsh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Matt> In either case we need to get Linux native threads to scale
Matt> much better than they do now. This might mean convincing the
Matt> kernel developers that scaling up to th
; Or even one that would significantly benefit from hundreds of threads?
I'm concerned about two related issues which are somewhat different
from what others have proposed [I spent this morning reading all the
email I ignored while at JavaOne - I *have* read the other responses to
your qu
Juergen Kreileder wrote:
> I still haven't seen one good argument for using thousands of threads
> except for working around Java's _current_ IO limitations and doing
> better on benchmarks which test work-arounds for these IO limitations.
>
If one uses Java's natural tools (no JNI/2nd-tier-serv
> "Matt" == Matt Welsh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Michael Thome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> I think the best answer is to do the second tier threading in userspace
>> (best would be in glibc).
> While on the surface this looks like the simple solution, in practice it
> is very diffic
> "Matt" == Matt Welsh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Matt> In either case we need to get Linux native threads to scale
Matt> much better than they do now. This might mean convincing the
Matt> kernel developers that scaling up to thousands of threads is
Matt> important --
I stil
>>>>> "Nelson" == Nelson Minar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Nelson> BTW, one last JavaOne tidbit - I met the guy at Volano
Nelson> who's done all the VolanoMark benchmarks over the
Nelson> years. Friendly chap, I thanked him for all his
ways were and still are interested in replacing Motif with QT or GTK
but we didn't have enough resources to do it in the past. If somebody
wants to help with this feel free to contact me.
Nelson> Java 3D API is forthcoming from Blackdown.
We've already made a final Java3D 1.1.3 r
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nelson Minar) writes:
> And green threads, in many ways, are just a thread
> abstraction on top of the select() magic that you'd have to write
> special purpose.
Still, green threads do not work very well (see the first paper on my website
for details) -- and they cannot take
>> I'm not one of the kernel folk, but can you give me an example of
>> an application that would be impossible without hundreds of threads?
Many of these examples have a common theme - lots of network I/O to
different places. We've learned from web servers that it's actually
better if you multip
Stefaan A Eeckels wrote:
>
>
> I'm not one of the kernel folk, but can you give me an example of
> an application that would be impossible without hundreds of threads?
> Or even one that would significantly benefit from hundreds of threads?
A RMI server on the net. One of our servers is handlin
Stefaan A Eeckels wrote:
> Seriously, "hundreds" of threads in _Java_, the acknowledged speed-demon
> of languages?
I don't think you'll find too much argument that huge threadcounts do not
necessarily add up to brilliant programming. An unfortunate, early design
decision against supporting asyn
"Rousseau, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> A performance critical application server that needs to handle
> hundreds of simultaneous requests and wants to keep a pool of
> threads around so as to not re-instantiate a client thread per
> incoming request.
This is the scenario we discuss in
Artur Biesiadowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Of course you can tell: Let's make java support nonblocking io. But it
> is not possible for now, JCP process is quite long,
We are working on it (I am on the expert group for the JCP specification
to add nonblocking I/O APIs to Java). It is slat
Michael Thome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I think the best answer is to do the second tier threading in userspace
> (best would be in glibc).
While on the surface this looks like the simple solution, in practice it
is very difficult to do. It requires that any operation that might block
the
On 09-Jun-2000 Avi Cherry wrote:
> >I'm not one of the kernel folk, but can you give me an example of
> >an application that would be impossible without hundreds of threads?
> >Or even one that would significantly benefit from hundreds of threads?
>
> Easy. How about any sort of stateful serv
On Friday Jun 9, 2000, Stefaan A Eeckels wrote:
>
> On 09-Jun-2000 Michael Thome wrote:
> > I think the best answer is to do the second tier threading in userspace
> > (best would be in glibc). The kernel folks have some good points
> > about doing it the kernel but seem to have a mental bl
On 09-Jun-2000 Michael Thome wrote:
> I think the best answer is to do the second tier threading in userspace
> (best would be in glibc). The kernel folks have some good points
> about doing it the kernel but seem to have a mental block as to why
> you'd *ever* want hundreds of threads in a
Java
relying on the OS' threads, and it seems like we might have a train
wreck coming. Some work now might avert that.
Anyone else want to chime in?
BTW, one last JavaOne tidbit - I met the guy at Volano who's done all
the VolanoMark benchmarks over the years. Friendly chap, I th
> "Nelson" == Nelson Minar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Newer Sun releases will be native threads only, not green threads. I
> asked why, and got two answers:
> Hotspot assumes native threads, so a green threads version would be hard.
> Thread management is the OS' job, not the applicati
Quoting Nelson Minar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Newer Sun releases will be native threads only, not green threads. I
> asked why, and got two answers:
> Hotspot assumes native threads, so a green threads version would be hard.
> Thread management is the OS' job, not the application's.
>
> We talke
Not much new news from JavaOne for Linux (or for anything, really). I
did stop by Sun's booth for J2SE on Linux and talked a bit with Hong
Zhang, their Hotspot guy for Linux.
Newer Sun releases will be native threads only, not green threads. I
asked why, and got two answers:
Hotspot as
aring
benchmarks with 1.3 + Hotspot was a bit silly.
All in all, it was nice to see stronger support from Sun for Linux.
Adam Ambrose
On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Nelson Minar wrote:
> Just got back from the first day of JavaOne. I'm happy to say that Sun
> sounds like they're fairl
Just got back from the first day of JavaOne. I'm happy to say that Sun
sounds like they're fairly serious about Linux support. Lots of Linux
visibility at the conference, several talks and BOFs. The biggest news
I heard is that Java 1.4 ("Merlin") should be released simul
SHUDO Kazuyuki wrote:
>
> Mo DeJong wrote:
>
> > I would be interested in going to JavaGrande, but I hear bad things
> > about JavaOne.
>
> JavaOne costs us very expensive fee to attend it, at
> least US$ 1295. I'll attend Java Grande Conference but
> not
Mo DeJong wrote:
> I would be interested in going to JavaGrande, but I hear bad things
> about JavaOne.
JavaOne costs us very expensive fee to attend it, at
least US$ 1295. I'll attend Java Grande Conference but
not JavaOne.
> Where can I find more info about JavaGrande?
A
On Wed, 24 May 2000, Matt Welsh wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nelson Minar) writes:
> > Are many Linux/Java folks coming to JavaOne? I'll be there.
>
> I am also interested in meeting people who may be coming to JavaGrande
> (which is held in SF just before JavaOne).
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nelson Minar) writes:
> Are many Linux/Java folks coming to JavaOne? I'll be there.
I am also interested in meeting people who may be coming to JavaGrande
(which is held in SF just before JavaOne).
If there is enough interest, we should plan an informal Linux/
Are many Linux/Java folks coming to JavaOne? I'll be there.
I see a few Linux sessions and BOFs scheduled:
Enterprise JavaTM for Linux HOWTO TS-977
Tuesday, June 6, 1:30 PM
The J2SETM Platform on Linux, Update and Roadmap BUS-1698
Tuesday, June 6, 8:00 PM
JavaTM 2 Platform on
On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Nelson Minar wrote:
> Seriously, that's great. What was the audience reaction? How much
> Linux presence is there at JavaOne? Hopefully IBM will make a big
> splash.
Well the Linux BOF was packed, and notes will be posted somewhere when
people get a chance
piracy send
her her payment.
Seriously, that's great. What was the audience reaction? How much
Linux presence is there at JavaOne? Hopefully IBM will make a big
splash.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
. . . .. . . . http://w
At this morning's JavaOne opening keynote session, Alan Baratz was spouting
off about how Sun is "listening, improving, and empowering" the Java
community and during the listening portion did a cheesy bit... He talked
about how his daughter is even learning Java in high-school --
Just a reminder folks attending JavaOne to come participate in the Linux
Java BOF...
JavaTM Technology on Linux BOF
Tuesday - June 15th
12:15 pm - 1:15 pm
The Marriott Hotel - BOF room - C3
Take care,
John
--
To
eed any volunteers.
>You can contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > -Kenneth Zhang
> >
> > --
> >
> > On Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:05:53 Tim Wilkinson wrote:
> > >All,
> > >
> > >Don't know if anyone else is looking into this but we&
able to make it to JavaOne next year to be part of the BOF and give a
short presentation of their particular project. I need their name,
affiliation, address, email, phone numbers and website for the proposal.
The BOFs are only 60 minutes in length and while I'm sure we could al
ny interest.
--Fred McDavid
> All,
>
> Don't know if anyone else is looking into this but we'd like to put
> together a free Java BOF at the coming JavaOne and obviously it'd make
> sense to get all the free Java people together for this. We've tried to
> do this infor
Birds Of a Feather
Chris Sommers wrote:
> Kinf Folks,
> What does "BOF" stand for?
>
> - chris sommers
>
Chris Sommers writes:
> Kinf Folks,
> What does "BOF" stand for?
"Birds of a Feather" .. ie, more-or-less last minute groups of
people who want to get together to talk about whatever they
want to talk about, but without a full presentation, etc.
-Archie
_
Oct 1998 10:05:53 Tim Wilkinson wrote:
> >All,
> >
> >Don't know if anyone else is looking into this but we'd like to put
> >together a free Java BOF at the coming JavaOne and obviously it'd make
> >sense to get all the free Java people together fo
ooking into this but we'd like to put
> >together a free Java BOF at the coming JavaOne and obviously it'd
make
> >sense to get all the free Java people together for this. We've
tried to
> >do this informally the last two years (they confiscated the megaphone
&g
t;together a free Java BOF at the coming JavaOne and obviously it'd make
>sense to get all the free Java people together for this. We've tried to
>do this informally the last two years (they confiscated the megaphone
>last year) but though we might try to get it into the off
Return Receipt
YourRE: Free Java @ JavaOne 1999
document
];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Free Java @ JavaOne 1999
Tim wrote:
> Don't know if anyone else is looking into this but we'd like to put
> together a free Java BOF at the coming JavaOne and obviously it'd make
> sense to get all the free Java people together for thi
Sounds reasonable. One format is 5-10 presentation from each group,
followed by 5-10 minutes questions to a specific group, followed
by open floor.
However, 60 minutes in length may not be enough for all the groups.
Two back-to-back sessions would be better, if we could get it.
Alternatively, j
TED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Free Java @ JavaOne 1999
>
> All,
>
> Don't know if anyone else is looking into this but we'd like to put
> together a free Java BOF at the coming JavaOne and obv
Tim wrote:
> Don't know if anyone else is looking into this but we'd like to put
> together a free Java BOF at the coming JavaOne and obviously it'd make
> sense to get all the free Java people together for this.
> Any interest?
Yes, absolut
Tim Wilkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Don't know if anyone else is looking into this but we'd like to put
> together a free Java BOF at the coming JavaOne and obviously it'd make
> sense to get all the free Java people together for this. We've trie
All,
Don't know if anyone else is looking into this but we'd like to put
together a free Java BOF at the coming JavaOne and obviously it'd make
sense to get all the free Java people together for this. We've tried to
do this informally the last two years (they confiscated the
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