Re: JDK19 is now available on ci.jenkins.io

['Stephane Merle' via Jenkins Developers]

We were thinking of renaming jdk19 to jdk-edge and have this version
following all new jdk versions almost automatically. And in the same time,
modifying the buildpluging to build on this one too but without failing ...
just informative (except if a specific flag is set to true, like
failonedge: true for example).
That way seems interesting for developers to see how there plugin behave
also on the last jdk (not lts).

What do you think?


On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 10:15 PM Basil Crow  wrote:

> What Tim said. I am not the biggest fan of an edge label either as
> this goes against the principle of reproducible builds. The Java 19
> agent label can be deprecated in the agent documentation when Java 20
> is released (which is minimal effort on the operational side). In
> general consumers of non-LTS versions of Java should realize that by
> signing up to consume a non-LTS version they will need to soon move to
> the next non-LTS version soon or else risk being out of luck when
> upstream drops support for that non-LTS version.
>
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> .
>

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Re: JDK19 is now available on ci.jenkins.io

[Basil Crow]

What Tim said. I am not the biggest fan of an edge label either as
this goes against the principle of reproducible builds. The Java 19
agent label can be deprecated in the agent documentation when Java 20
is released (which is minimal effort on the operational side). In
general consumers of non-LTS versions of Java should realize that by
signing up to consume a non-LTS version they will need to soon move to
the next non-LTS version soon or else risk being out of luck when
upstream drops support for that non-LTS version.

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Re: JDK19 is now available on ci.jenkins.io

[Tim Jacomb]

Personally I'm not the biggest fan of edge I'd rather get a clear error
that the Java version has been removed or a deprecation error in my build
than the Java versions has been randomly changed to another major version.

I think that we would want a deprecation period after 20 is out (and maybe
some batch automated PRs to update consumers as they should be easily
searchable), then removing 19, i.e. not keeping a non LTS version forever.


On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 at 19:52, 'wfoll...@cloudbees.com' via Jenkins
Developers  wrote:

> +1 for the edge approach, to not create "superficial" tech debt
>
> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 8:34:12 AM UTC-8 slide wrote:
>
>> I think the edge idea is a good one. This reduces the churn on
>> Jenkinsfile changes to support building on the latest. It would be nice if
>> we, as plugin developers, could opt in to failures on the edge or not,
>> meaning that a build failure on the latest jdk would not cause the build to
>> fail, unless an option was set to true.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 9:18 AM Damien Duportal 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> > Given this is the first time (I think) that a non-LTS JDK is provided,
>>> what are the plans around supporting this?
>>>
>>> We did not have any plan as we did not thought that much. Interesting
>>> point!
>>>
>>> > Will it be removed once JDK 20 exists?
>>>
>>> I guess yes. That would break pipelines using JDK19 though. Would that
>>> make sense to provide a support policy in the infra that would explain we
>>> follow the JDK lifecycles?
>>>
>>> Also, would that make sense to, instead, provide a "jdk-edge" that would
>>> be always the latest non LTS JDK instead (intermediate status: if there are
>>> no version AND it's name edge, we make it explicit that it could break at
>>> any time)?
>>> Le jeudi 8 décembre 2022 à 17:09:34 UTC+1, db...@cloudbees.com a écrit :
>>>
 On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 11:02 AM 'Stephane Merle' via Jenkins Developers
  wrote:

> Hello dear developers,
>
> I’m happy to announce that in order to allow contributors to prepare
> the future of Jenkins by working in advance with new JDK, we’ve added 
> JDK19
> on ci.jenkins.io.
>

 Given this is the first time (I think) that a non-LTS JDK is provided,
 what are the plans around supporting this? Will it be removed once JDK 20
 exists? Once JDK 21 (next LTS) exists? Will it be supported indefinitely?

>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to jenkinsci-de...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/ba7929ca-ae1e-4619-a31b-4b01be0068a3n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Website: http://earl-of-code.com
>>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: Proposal to ensure new plugin hosting requests use Maven instead of Gradle

['Daniel Beck' via Jenkins Developers]

On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 11:20 AM Alexander Brandes 
wrote:

> There's no support for automated releases (CD, JEP-229), missing metadata
> for the plugin page and a few other limitations, which don't make it a
> great experience using it.
> …
> I would be ready to lift this restriction again if the JPI plugin
> developers provide the same scope of tools like we have for Maven.
>

Is the maintainer of Gradle JPI Plugin aware of these requirements and/or
this discussion? I don't see him in cc.

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Re: JDK19 is now available on ci.jenkins.io

['wfoll...@cloudbees.com' via Jenkins Developers]

+1 for the edge approach, to not create "superficial" tech debt 

On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 8:34:12 AM UTC-8 slide wrote:

> I think the edge idea is a good one. This reduces the churn on Jenkinsfile 
> changes to support building on the latest. It would be nice if we, as 
> plugin developers, could opt in to failures on the edge or not, meaning 
> that a build failure on the latest jdk would not cause the build to fail, 
> unless an option was set to true.
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 9:18 AM Damien Duportal  
> wrote:
>
>> > Given this is the first time (I think) that a non-LTS JDK is provided, 
>> what are the plans around supporting this? 
>>
>> We did not have any plan as we did not thought that much. Interesting 
>> point!
>>
>> > Will it be removed once JDK 20 exists?
>>
>> I guess yes. That would break pipelines using JDK19 though. Would that 
>> make sense to provide a support policy in the infra that would explain we 
>> follow the JDK lifecycles? 
>>
>> Also, would that make sense to, instead, provide a "jdk-edge" that would 
>> be always the latest non LTS JDK instead (intermediate status: if there are 
>> no version AND it's name edge, we make it explicit that it could break at 
>> any time)?
>> Le jeudi 8 décembre 2022 à 17:09:34 UTC+1, db...@cloudbees.com a écrit :
>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 11:02 AM 'Stephane Merle' via Jenkins Developers <
>>> jenkin...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
 Hello dear developers,

 I’m happy to announce that in order to allow contributors to prepare 
 the future of Jenkins by working in advance with new JDK, we’ve added 
 JDK19 
 on ci.jenkins.io.

>>>
>>> Given this is the first time (I think) that a non-LTS JDK is provided, 
>>> what are the plans around supporting this? Will it be removed once JDK 20 
>>> exists? Once JDK 21 (next LTS) exists? Will it be supported indefinitely?
>>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Jenkins Developers" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to jenkinsci-de...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/ba7929ca-ae1e-4619-a31b-4b01be0068a3n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Website: http://earl-of-code.com
>

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Re: Proposal to ensure new plugin hosting requests use Maven instead of Gradle

['wfoll...@cloudbees.com' via Jenkins Developers]

+1

On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 8:27:13 AM UTC-8 Adrien Lecharpentier 
wrote:

> +1 as well from me.
>
> Le jeu. 8 déc. 2022 à 17:19, Damien Duportal  a 
> écrit :
>
>> +1
>>
>> Le mercredi 7 décembre 2022 à 15:49:42 UTC+1, bma...@gmail.com a écrit :
>>
>>> +1.
>>>
>>> At least such a move will make it very explicit for any new plugin that 
>>> only Maven really has /production/ support for Jenkins plugin dev.
>>>
>>> I think that we should still "allow" new plugins to use Gradle if they 
>>> wish so. But then they'll be very well aware that they got to be ready for 
>>> a lot of pain and much meta-work around the tooling itself for developing 
>>> their plugins.
>>> Which right now might be overlooked by new developers joining the 
>>> community and thinking that choosing one or another is simply a matter of 
>>> taste and habits.
>>>
>>> Le mer. 7 déc. 2022 à 15:19, Basil Crow  a écrit :
>>>
 +1

 On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 2:20 AM Alexander Brandes  
 wrote:
 >
 > Hey everyone,
 >
 > the Gradle JPI plugin lacks fundamental support of the jenkins.io 
 infrastructure.
 > There's no support for automated releases (CD, JEP-229), missing 
 metadata for the plugin page and a few other limitations, which don't make 
 it a great experience using it.
 >
 > Additionally, worth to note, the components mentioned above aren't 
 new. People are proactively switching away from Gradle to Maven for better 
 support and acceptance of our tooling, see ivy-plugin/49 for example.
 >
 > For the reasons stated, I would like to propose, that new plugin 
 hosting requests use Maven, to have better toolchain support.
 > I would be ready to lift this restriction again if the JPI plugin 
 developers provide the same scope of tools like we have for Maven.
 >
 > Best,
 > Alexander Brandes, for the hosting team
 >
 > --
 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
 > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
 send an email to jenkinsci-de...@googlegroups.com.
 > To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/bb8f56d3-727b-481a-9132-17bf5eddbbcdn%40googlegroups.com
 .

 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
 an email to jenkinsci-de...@googlegroups.com.

>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAFwNDjq9xnyvJFoB33n07jORm7Hw6fSBf8FY5ho5FdGMDAiKug%40mail.gmail.com
 .

>>> -- 
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>> "Jenkins Developers" group.
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>> email to jenkinsci-de...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/5f43f822-37e4-45e2-85a2-3c60840ffcdfn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: JDK19 is now available on ci.jenkins.io

[Alex Earl]

I think the edge idea is a good one. This reduces the churn on Jenkinsfile
changes to support building on the latest. It would be nice if we, as
plugin developers, could opt in to failures on the edge or not, meaning
that a build failure on the latest jdk would not cause the build to fail,
unless an option was set to true.

On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 9:18 AM Damien Duportal 
wrote:

> > Given this is the first time (I think) that a non-LTS JDK is provided,
> what are the plans around supporting this?
>
> We did not have any plan as we did not thought that much. Interesting
> point!
>
> > Will it be removed once JDK 20 exists?
>
> I guess yes. That would break pipelines using JDK19 though. Would that
> make sense to provide a support policy in the infra that would explain we
> follow the JDK lifecycles?
>
> Also, would that make sense to, instead, provide a "jdk-edge" that would
> be always the latest non LTS JDK instead (intermediate status: if there are
> no version AND it's name edge, we make it explicit that it could break at
> any time)?
> Le jeudi 8 décembre 2022 à 17:09:34 UTC+1, db...@cloudbees.com a écrit :
>
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 11:02 AM 'Stephane Merle' via Jenkins Developers <
>> jenkin...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello dear developers,
>>>
>>> I’m happy to announce that in order to allow contributors to prepare the
>>> future of Jenkins by working in advance with new JDK, we’ve added JDK19 on
>>> ci.jenkins.io.
>>>
>>
>> Given this is the first time (I think) that a non-LTS JDK is provided,
>> what are the plans around supporting this? Will it be removed once JDK 20
>> exists? Once JDK 21 (next LTS) exists? Will it be supported indefinitely?
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Jenkins Developers" group.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/ba7929ca-ae1e-4619-a31b-4b01be0068a3n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


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Re: Proposal to ensure new plugin hosting requests use Maven instead of Gradle

[Adrien Lecharpentier]

+1 as well from me.

Le jeu. 8 déc. 2022 à 17:19, Damien Duportal  a
écrit :

> +1
>
> Le mercredi 7 décembre 2022 à 15:49:42 UTC+1, bma...@gmail.com a écrit :
>
>> +1.
>>
>> At least such a move will make it very explicit for any new plugin that
>> only Maven really has /production/ support for Jenkins plugin dev.
>>
>> I think that we should still "allow" new plugins to use Gradle if they
>> wish so. But then they'll be very well aware that they got to be ready for
>> a lot of pain and much meta-work around the tooling itself for developing
>> their plugins.
>> Which right now might be overlooked by new developers joining the
>> community and thinking that choosing one or another is simply a matter of
>> taste and habits.
>>
>> Le mer. 7 déc. 2022 à 15:19, Basil Crow  a écrit :
>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 2:20 AM Alexander Brandes 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hey everyone,
>>> >
>>> > the Gradle JPI plugin lacks fundamental support of the jenkins.io
>>> infrastructure.
>>> > There's no support for automated releases (CD, JEP-229), missing
>>> metadata for the plugin page and a few other limitations, which don't make
>>> it a great experience using it.
>>> >
>>> > Additionally, worth to note, the components mentioned above aren't
>>> new. People are proactively switching away from Gradle to Maven for better
>>> support and acceptance of our tooling, see ivy-plugin/49 for example.
>>> >
>>> > For the reasons stated, I would like to propose, that new plugin
>>> hosting requests use Maven, to have better toolchain support.
>>> > I would be ready to lift this restriction again if the JPI plugin
>>> developers provide the same scope of tools like we have for Maven.
>>> >
>>> > Best,
>>> > Alexander Brandes, for the hosting team
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to jenkinsci-de...@googlegroups.com.
>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/bb8f56d3-727b-481a-9132-17bf5eddbbcdn%40googlegroups.com
>>> .
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to jenkinsci-de...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAFwNDjq9xnyvJFoB33n07jORm7Hw6fSBf8FY5ho5FdGMDAiKug%40mail.gmail.com
>>> .
>>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: Proposal to ensure new plugin hosting requests use Maven instead of Gradle

[Damien Duportal]

+1

Le mercredi 7 décembre 2022 à 15:49:42 UTC+1, bma...@gmail.com a écrit :

> +1.
>
> At least such a move will make it very explicit for any new plugin that 
> only Maven really has /production/ support for Jenkins plugin dev.
>
> I think that we should still "allow" new plugins to use Gradle if they 
> wish so. But then they'll be very well aware that they got to be ready for 
> a lot of pain and much meta-work around the tooling itself for developing 
> their plugins.
> Which right now might be overlooked by new developers joining the 
> community and thinking that choosing one or another is simply a matter of 
> taste and habits.
>
> Le mer. 7 déc. 2022 à 15:19, Basil Crow  a écrit :
>
>> +1
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 2:20 AM Alexander Brandes  
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hey everyone,
>> >
>> > the Gradle JPI plugin lacks fundamental support of the jenkins.io 
>> infrastructure.
>> > There's no support for automated releases (CD, JEP-229), missing 
>> metadata for the plugin page and a few other limitations, which don't make 
>> it a great experience using it.
>> >
>> > Additionally, worth to note, the components mentioned above aren't new. 
>> People are proactively switching away from Gradle to Maven for better 
>> support and acceptance of our tooling, see ivy-plugin/49 for example.
>> >
>> > For the reasons stated, I would like to propose, that new plugin 
>> hosting requests use Maven, to have better toolchain support.
>> > I would be ready to lift this restriction again if the JPI plugin 
>> developers provide the same scope of tools like we have for Maven.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Alexander Brandes, for the hosting team
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to jenkinsci-de...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/bb8f56d3-727b-481a-9132-17bf5eddbbcdn%40googlegroups.com
>> .
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Jenkins Developers" group.
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>> email to jenkinsci-de...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAFwNDjq9xnyvJFoB33n07jORm7Hw6fSBf8FY5ho5FdGMDAiKug%40mail.gmail.com
>> .
>>
>

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Re: JDK19 is now available on ci.jenkins.io

[Damien Duportal]

> Given this is the first time (I think) that a non-LTS JDK is provided, 
what are the plans around supporting this? 

We did not have any plan as we did not thought that much. Interesting point!

> Will it be removed once JDK 20 exists?

I guess yes. That would break pipelines using JDK19 though. Would that make 
sense to provide a support policy in the infra that would explain we follow 
the JDK lifecycles? 

Also, would that make sense to, instead, provide a "jdk-edge" that would be 
always the latest non LTS JDK instead (intermediate status: if there are no 
version AND it's name edge, we make it explicit that it could break at any 
time)?
Le jeudi 8 décembre 2022 à 17:09:34 UTC+1, db...@cloudbees.com a écrit :

> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 11:02 AM 'Stephane Merle' via Jenkins Developers <
> jenkin...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello dear developers,
>>
>> I’m happy to announce that in order to allow contributors to prepare the 
>> future of Jenkins by working in advance with new JDK, we’ve added JDK19 on 
>> ci.jenkins.io.
>>
>
> Given this is the first time (I think) that a non-LTS JDK is provided, 
> what are the plans around supporting this? Will it be removed once JDK 20 
> exists? Once JDK 21 (next LTS) exists? Will it be supported indefinitely?
>

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Re: JDK19 is now available on ci.jenkins.io

['Daniel Beck' via Jenkins Developers]

On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 11:02 AM 'Stephane Merle' via Jenkins Developers <
jenkinsci-dev@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Hello dear developers,
>
> I’m happy to announce that in order to allow contributors to prepare the
> future of Jenkins by working in advance with new JDK, we’ve added JDK19 on
> ci.jenkins.io.
>

Given this is the first time (I think) that a non-LTS JDK is provided, what
are the plans around supporting this? Will it be removed once JDK 20
exists? Once JDK 21 (next LTS) exists? Will it be supported indefinitely?

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Re: Next baseline shift

[Damien Duportal]

As explained by Jesse in 
https://github.com/jenkins-infra/pipeline-library/pull/541#issuecomment-1342884874,
 
changing the default of buildPlugin() could create problems. I'll close the 
PR as there is no value in changing the default as it.

The archetypes used to generate a new plugin project are already up to 
date: there is a documentation effort to be done that would be much more 
valuable (I heard that some documentation contributors are going to propose 
help) which make sense.

Eventually, once the documentation is up to date, we could add a message 
when "buildPlugin()" is called without argument, recomending to list 
explicit configurations.


Le mercredi 7 décembre 2022 à 16:51:06 UTC+1, Damien Duportal a écrit :

> Prepared the draft PR for "buildPlugin()": 
> https://github.com/jenkins-infra/pipeline-library/pull/541
>
> Le jeudi 1 décembre 2022 à 19:16:40 UTC+1, m...@basilcrow.com a écrit :
>
>> I released the first tranche of PRs in 4.52 
>> . Next 
>> week I will take a look at migrating from Jetty 9 to Jetty 10 in the plugin 
>> build toolchain.
>>
>

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Re: JDK19 is now available on ci.jenkins.io

[Verachten Bruno]

That's great, thanks a lot, Jenkins Infra team. 

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JDK19 is now available on ci.jenkins.io

['Stephane Merle' via Jenkins Developers]

Hello dear developers,

I’m happy to announce that in order to allow contributors to prepare the
future of Jenkins by working in advance with new JDK, we’ve added JDK19 on
ci.jenkins.io.
Multiple options are available,

   - with the new tools installer 'jdk19', though the buildPlugin()
   function (for example : buildPlugin(useContainerAgent: true, platforms:
   ['linux'], jdkVersions: ['11','17','19'])
   - using the new 'label maven-19' or 'maven-19-windows'
   - or even, for some edge cases, directly on the VM agent (vm &&
   linux-amd64) using /opt/jdk-19.


More information can be found here :
https://github.com/jenkins-infra/helpdesk/issues/3243 and
https://github.com/jenkins-infra/documentation/blob/d05ca4341b646f5598941492d8277c097060fa10/ci.adoc

The version of JDK19 currently used is 19.0.1+10

For the Jenkins Infra,
Stéphane MERLE
Staff SRE

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