Re: JEP proposal: Removing user-facing scripting features from core

2017-11-14 Thread Jesse Glick 
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Kohsuke Kawaguchi  wrote:
> Is this any different from all the other extractions of features into
> plugins? I guess back then we used to bundle those extracted stuff as
> bundled plugins?

We now bundle them in `jenkins.war` as _detached_ plugins, meaning
they are not automatically installed—only if there is some implicit
dependency on them from another plugin, or (IIRC) when you are
upgrading from prior to the split point.

The JEP should clarify the status of the split plugin w.r.t. the setup
wizard for new installations: should it be “suggested” but not
“recommended”, say?

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Re: JEP proposal: Removing user-facing scripting features from core

2017-11-13 Thread Kohsuke Kawaguchi 
Is this any different from all the other extractions of features into
plugins? I guess back then we used to bundle those extracted stuff as
bundled plugins?

On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 4:30 AM Jesse Glick  wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 6:25 AM, Daniel Beck  wrote:
> > Would https://github.com/jenkinsci/jenkins/pull/3006 (the goal,
> rationale etc., not the implementation details) have a chance as a JEP
>
> Yes.
>
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Re: JEP proposal: Removing user-facing scripting features from core

2017-11-13 Thread Jesse Glick 
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 6:25 AM, Daniel Beck  wrote:
> Would https://github.com/jenkinsci/jenkins/pull/3006 (the goal, rationale 
> etc., not the implementation details) have a chance as a JEP

Yes.

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Re: JEP proposal: Removing user-facing scripting features from core

2017-11-13 Thread Oleg Nenashev 
Personally I am +1 about **considering** it. My main concern is that Groovy 
logic is being often [mis]used by configuration management tools, e.g. to 
install plugins by CLI calls. If we remove CLI handlers from the core, I 
would expect it to cause some collateral damage on this scenarios. IMHO it 
needs a wider poll via Users mailing list and blog post once CI is accepted 
as a draft.

Regarding keeping Groovy in the core, we need a pluggable core components 
story (JENKINS-41196 ) 
to be delivered for that. Groovy Init Hooks are critical to Jenkins 
environments, and this part should not be detached to plugins IMHO.

BR, Oleg


понедельник, 13 ноября 2017 г., 17:52:06 UTC+1 пользователь Daniel Beck 
написал:
>
>
> > On 13. Nov 2017, at 17:40, R. Tyler Croy  > wrote: 
> > 
> > What impact does this have on the Script Console or the CLI, both of 
> which 
> > expose scripting functionality? 
>
> The "Script Console" and groovy/groovysh CLI commands (and more) would be 
> moved into a plugin, so OOTB, Jenkins would have no text fields taking 
> 'system' Groovy for management purposes. 
>
> The idea is that with that plugin, the exact same features will be 
> available, but without it, you don't have them. Implementation TBD. 
>
>

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Re: JEP proposal: Removing user-facing scripting features from core

2017-11-13 Thread Daniel Beck 

> On 13. Nov 2017, at 17:40, R. Tyler Croy  wrote:
> 
> What impact does this have on the Script Console or the CLI, both of which
> expose scripting functionality?

The "Script Console" and groovy/groovysh CLI commands (and more) would be moved 
into a plugin, so OOTB, Jenkins would have no text fields taking 'system' 
Groovy for management purposes.

The idea is that with that plugin, the exact same features will be available, 
but without it, you don't have them. Implementation TBD.

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Re: JEP proposal: Removing user-facing scripting features from core

2017-11-13 Thread R. Tyler Croy 
(replies inline)

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, Daniel Beck wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> This is a pre-JEP check[1]: Would 
> https://github.com/jenkinsci/jenkins/pull/3006 (the goal, rationale etc., not 
> the implementation details) have a chance as a JEP, or is it a waste of time?


What impact does this have on the Script Console or the CLI, both of which
expose scripting functionality?

I might not be educated enough to understand the nuance of "removing scripting"
which somehow still leaves Groovy in core, and features like init.groovy.d/.
Can you elaborate a bit more on what features/functionalities are being
proposed for extraction here?


Cheers
- R. Tyler Croy

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JEP proposal: Removing user-facing scripting features from core

2017-11-13 Thread Daniel Beck 
Hi everyone,

This is a pre-JEP check[1]: Would 
https://github.com/jenkinsci/jenkins/pull/3006 (the goal, rationale etc., not 
the implementation details) have a chance as a JEP, or is it a waste of time?

Thanks,
Daniel

1: https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/1#discussion

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