[josm-dev] Please do not change long established shortcuts
My apologies for ranting, but please do not change shortcuts that were in use for I-know-not-how long. I just downloaded rev 5181 and found that the d key did not work. Someone decided that it should be the delete key. I can understand the reasoning. But do not decide for the whole community that it is better to have everyone change the way they work just because you think it is better. If you think deleting an item should be the delete key and it was programmed as d, then your welcome to change it in your favourits. IMHO it is also a bad change because now I have to get my hand off the mouse to use the delete key where the d key is nicely positioned on the left side of the keyboard to use with my left hand. In principle, it is not a good idea to change long established customs. Regards, Maarten ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Please do not change long established shortcuts
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote: In principle, it is not a good idea to change long established customs. This has been decided a looong time ago due to a russian forum complain: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/josm-dev/2012-February/006033.html Our opinion and long established customs does not count very much on josm dev. Btw, you should update your JOSM more frequently. Then you don't have time to acquire habits. Pieren ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Please do not change long established shortcuts
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, Maarten Deen wrote: My apologies for ranting, but please do not change shortcuts that were in use for I-know-not-how long. I just downloaded rev 5181 and found that the d key did not work. Someone decided that it should be the delete key. It is the delete key for probably about 3 years now. As the D key produced unwanted results it has been dropped and only DEL remains. Please read the related tickets and also lots of discussions here in josm-dev why we changed keys and why there was no alternative to this. I can understand the reasoning. But do not decide for the whole community that it is better to have everyone change the way they work just because you think it is better. If you think deleting an item should be the delete key and it was programmed as d, then your welcome to change it in your favourits. Actually it seems you cannot understand the reasoning. We did not simply change a key as we thought that would be nice (we did so for others where we had conflicts). For this function we had * two keys for the same function * one of these two causing troubles IMHO it is also a bad change because now I have to get my hand off the mouse to use the delete key where the d key is nicely positioned on the left side of the keyboard to use with my left hand. Well, deleting is a dangerous function and it is actually wanted that it is not too easy. In principle, it is not a good idea to change long established customs. Sorry, but I always hear that when we make changes but usually more users are happy about cleanups and only some old-timers have problems. I do not agree that we must keep old habits only to support some people to lazy to change. We never changed anything without good reasons and we also did not do now. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Please do not change long established shortcuts
2012/4/30 colliar colliar4e...@aol.com: On 30/04/12 16:54, Maarten Deen wrote: Pieren wrote: On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote: The whole short cut system changed and improved. In this process some short cuts changed, but should not change in the near future. this is true and very much appreciated. After a short time you get used to the new keys, but of course they shouldn't change often (which is also not planned I think). There's just one big annoyance introduced: the key for delete mode. This now is impossible to select with just one hand, so you have to get the other hand off the mouse which really disturbs workflow. Maybe I am a particulare case, because my system seems to have a bug: often the WLAN drops when I hit the delete key (at least in JOSM). My current workaround is to click the delete-mode button with the mouse, which is still not optimal. Cheers, Martin ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Please do not change long established shortcuts
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, Maarten Deen wrote: To continue my rant: N used to be the method to place one node only. That seems to have disappeared too. It looks like I now have to start drawing a way with A and then press escape to end drawing the way so I can change its properties. 'N' was simply a secondary key for 'A' for a very long time now. It had exactly same function and thus has been removed. To place a single node use SHIFT + Click or ESC and afterwards Click. To end drawing after the node has been created either Double-Click or press ESC afterwards. All of this beeing available for a very long time also. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Please do not change long established shortcuts
On 30-4-2012 18:46, Dirk Stöcker wrote: On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, Maarten Deen wrote: To continue my rant: N used to be the method to place one node only. That seems to have disappeared too. It looks like I now have to start drawing a way with A and then press escape to end drawing the way so I can change its properties. 'N' was simply a secondary key for 'A' for a very long time now. It had exactly same function and thus has been removed. To place a single node use SHIFT + Click or ESC and afterwards Click. N had not the same function. A starts a way, N sets a node. To set one node now, you have to do the things you mention. To set one note before you only had to select N and click once. In any case: it is more work. Yes, I'm nitpicking, but nitpicking is easy when there is no guide or releasenotes where this is mentioned. To end drawing after the node has been created either Double-Click or press ESC afterwards. All of this beeing available for a very long time also. If you are not using those other keys, you are not aware of them. I haven't read anywhere in releasenotes that certain shortcuts were dropped. I must have also missed all those discussions about it on this list because I can't remember any. Maarten ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Please do not change long established shortcuts
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: is also not planned I think). There's just one big annoyance introduced: the key for delete mode. This now is impossible to select with just one hand, so you have to get the other hand off the mouse which really disturbs workflow. The D key removal was actually requested, as too many people accidentially deleted stuff. If you have trouble with DEL key, then reassign the function to D. Together with shortcuts changes the whole system was reworked, so that local key assignments should be much more stable in the future (Conflicts now always lead to uncommon shortcuts instead of the cascading of the past). Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Please do not change long established shortcuts
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, Maarten Deen wrote: 'N' was simply a secondary key for 'A' for a very long time now. It had exactly same function and thus has been removed. To place a single node use SHIFT + Click or ESC and afterwards Click. N had not the same function. A starts a way, N sets a node. To set one node now, you have to do the things you mention. To set one note before you only had to select N and click once. I find no code which validates your description. N was removed in this changeset and it was a simple analogon to A: https://josm.openstreetmap.de/changeset/4956/josm/trunk/src/org/openstreetmap/josm/actions/mapmode/DrawAction.java If it was as you described, then it vanished a long time ago and nobody noticed it. Which also is a good point to remove it. In any case: it is more work. Yes, I'm nitpicking, but nitpicking is easy when there is no guide or releasenotes where this is mentioned. It is still mentioned on the Start page, that key assignment are changed. For 3 months now. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Please do not change long established shortcuts
Dirk Stöcker wrote: On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, Maarten Deen wrote: 'N' was simply a secondary key for 'A' for a very long time now. It had exactly same function and thus has been removed. To place a single node use SHIFT + Click or ESC and afterwards Click. N had not the same function. A starts a way, N sets a node. To set one node now, you have to do the things you mention. To set one note before you only had to select N and click once. I find no code which validates your description. N was removed in this changeset and it was a simple analogon to A: https://josm.openstreetmap.de/changeset/4956/josm/trunk/src/org/openstreetmap/josm/actions/mapmode/DrawAction.java If it was as you described, then it vanished a long time ago and nobody noticed it. Which also is a good point to remove it. You are right, the simple fact that the N was dropped must have set me on the wrong foot. But I still remember there was a way (then maybe even longer ago) that you could just set one node and be done with it. But there you go: change one simple thing and there are people who are completely off track. You can make fun of this, but that's what happens. Still haven't found a mention that the N was going to be dropped. Maarten ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Please do not change long established shortcuts
On 30/04/2012 18:00, Dirk Stöcker wrote: The D key removal was actually requested, as too many people accidentially deleted stuff. Absolutely - hugely better, thank you! The problem was it was right next to the S key so you ended up deleting stuff instead of selecting it. I was used to using the N key instead of A (if there was a difference, it was extremely subtle). But I've now unlearned my previous behaviour without too much trouble. David ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
[josm-dev] next tested version - skip stabilization?
Hi, most of the commits in the last weeks have been bug fixing, so I'd suggest we skip the stabilization period and release tomorrow's version as next tested. The only recent change that could break something is [5206], but I hope it's Ok. :) Paul ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
Re: [josm-dev] Please do not change long established shortcuts
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 7:41 PM, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote: Absolutely - hugely better, thank you! The problem was it was right next to the S key so you ended up deleting stuff instead of selecting it. I don't know how small are you keyboard keys (or fat your fingers) but I never had this problem. As pointed by others, when you really edit/draw with this tool, the mode switch on one hand and the mouse on the other hand was very practical.Fortunately, it is still allowed to customize the shortcuts.Unfortunatelly, preferences are too often reset by versions upgrades. Pieren ___ josm-dev mailing list josm-dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/josm-dev
