RE: [jug-discussion] [dec presentation] survey of O/R tools
I would add to your list. Is it well documented? Is it easy to configure? Does it have community support? (more people that use it, more bugs get found and fixed) Can you get other support? Can you find info on it and best practices with it (with books, articles, etc.)? Can you hire someone off the street who can do it? Is it a standard? Does it have XDoclet support? I would like to offer a presentation for December's topic covering Object-Relational mapping tools. An emphatic +1 :-) Some of the tools I would be reviewing will be: Castor (castor.exolab.org) Hibernate (http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/) Torque (jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque) OJB (jakarta.apache.org/ojb) TJDO (http://tjdo.sourceforge.net/) I'm most interested in Hibernate and TJDO personally, but might be worth adding this project to just the comparison grid: jRelationalFramework version 2.0 http://jrf.sourceforge.net/ The author of SimpleORM has this document that might be a good starting point for some comparisons: http://www.uq.net.au/~zzabergl/simpleorm/ORMTools.html Personally I think that this is more than enough to review in an hour, Agree. Perhaps on the list there are other folks who have intimate experience with one or more of these technologies already? Could split things up to multiple folks, but work on the same example scenario? If this is selected as the next topic. I would like some specific questions asked now, so I can prepare the answers for the presentation. 1) Is it easy to use? 2) Is it easy to use? ;-) 3) Does it impose any constraints on the DB design? (or conversely, will it work with a schema that you didn't design, wouldn't have designed, and was just plain designed by a raving lunatic...but now can't be changed?) 4) Does it adapt well to changes in schema? 5) Does it have cacheing built in? 6) How query-intensive is it? (i.e. how many queries does it take to restore a listed of objects that have nested objects) Looking forward to this! Tim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Richard Hightower CTO | LearningPatterns, Inc. Global Java Education, Mentoring, Courseware Consulting Services +520-290-6855 direct 55 Broad Street , 18th Floor | New York NY 10004 w w w . l e a r n i n g p a t t e r n s . c o m w w w . t r i v e r a t e c h . c o m (new merger) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[jug-discussion] erik's new book on slashdot!
Just thought I'd share this - former JUG Alum Erik Hatcher's Ant book is reviewed on slashdot: http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/11/14/ 0326206mode=threadtid=108 -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] [dec presentation] survey of O/R tools
At 07:29 PM 11/13/2002 -0800, you wrote: See more below: --- Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday, November 13, 2002, at 06:14 PM, Lesiecki Nicholas wrote: Warner says: I'd prefer not to [cover EJB/CMP] for a few reasons: 1) While I know that it is a kind of O/R it is not the kind I am interested in at the moment What kind are you interested in? Well, I personally have some issues with EJB ;-). If I saw a good presentation on it maybe I'd change my mind. But I have problems with any framework that requires me to create multiple files just in order to get some data from a database as an object. You have a point. That's why I want to see EJB covered. Everyone I talk to says EJB sucks. We use it and it doesn't seem so bad. (Back me up Rick, Andy). But I'm always interested in another better idea. So I want to see it compared side by side to other frameworks so that I can make up my mind a little better. I can understand this but Warner's original idea was to cover some of the containerless O/R products. His scope was TOO BIG from the beginning and certainly doesn't need widening! I advocate that we stick with the original idea (maybe even cut it down to 3 or 4) and save the EJB stuff for sometime later (maybe the following month). -tom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] [dec presentation] survey of O/R tools
His scope was TOO BIG from the beginning and certainly doesn't need widening! +1 (That's why I want to get my favorites near the top. grin) I advocate that we stick with the original idea (maybe even cut it down to 3 or 4) and save the EJB stuff for sometime later (maybe the following month). +1 EJB is a vast topic. Perhaps after a good rundown on the containerless persistence frameworks, we can form a generic picture of how they work. Then the EJB 2.x can be presented and finally an educated comparison pro/con? Cheers, Tim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] [dec presentation] survey of O/R tools
At 08:41 PM 11/13/2002 -0700, Warner wrote: Uncle! ;-) Ok, so the lineup will be (contingent on getting some help on unknown frameworks + a consensus): Castor (castor.exolab.org) Hibernate (http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/) Torque (jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque) OJB (jakarta.apache.org/ojb) TJDO (http://tjdo.sourceforge.net/) and EJB (2.x ?) (http://java.sun.com/products/ejb/docs.html) - need help with this one Come on Warner --- don't cave in. There's already too much here to do it all justice without adding the EJB monster, which is a completely different animal anyway. Besides, we just had an EJB presentation a couple of meetings ago, didn't we? -tom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[jug-discussion] dec. presentation recap
Ok, Before we get too deep here, I would like to know if we have enough +1's for O/R tools for the meeting: Tim +1 Warner +1 Nick +1 (even if no EJB?) Andy +1 Tom Hicks +1 I'll throw in Drew's +1, because he asked me about Torque a while ago, but I don't know if he'll be able to make it and I know Randy was curious as well (he was the one who pointed me towards Hibernate). Now, anyone else? I would like to see a few more votes (from people that regularly attend - no offense) before locking this down. Plus I don't know if Simon had any other possible presenters lined up, Simon? Thank you for your time, you may now return to your previously scheduled program. -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] dec. presentation recap
+1 for O/R tools. I don't think EJB counts as an O/R tool, and the EJB vs. O/R tools discussion would make a fine topic all by its self. I would especially like to see a knowledgable proponent for each duke it out. Maybe we could find an impartial (hah!) moderator. Warner Onstine wrote: Ok, Before we get too deep here, I would like to know if we have enough +1's for O/R tools for the meeting: Tim +1 Warner +1 Nick +1 (even if no EJB?) Andy +1 Tom Hicks +1 I'll throw in Drew's +1, because he asked me about Torque a while ago, but I don't know if he'll be able to make it and I know Randy was curious as well (he was the one who pointed me towards Hibernate). Now, anyone else? I would like to see a few more votes (from people that regularly attend - no offense) before locking this down. Plus I don't know if Simon had any other possible presenters lined up, Simon? Thank you for your time, you may now return to your previously scheduled program. -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] [dec presentation] survey of O/R tools
I would add to your list. Is it well documented? Is it easy to configure? Does it have community support? (more people that use it, more bugs get found and fixed) Can you get other support? Can you find info on it and best practices with it (with books, articles, etc.)? Can you hire someone off the street who can do it? Is it a standard? Does it have XDoclet support? Do these questions refer to the difference between EJB CMR/P and OR Tools? If so then my biggest issue is the container dependent implementations of J2EE. As I remember Resin was been pretty horrific in regards to many of these questions. Weblogic is WAY better, but costs a lot of $$. Has Resin improved in relation to: 1 2 3 4 and 6? I would like to offer a presentation for December's topic covering Object-Relational mapping tools. An emphatic +1 :-) Some of the tools I would be reviewing will be: Castor (castor.exolab.org) Hibernate (http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/) Torque (jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque) OJB (jakarta.apache.org/ojb) TJDO (http://tjdo.sourceforge.net/) I'm most interested in Hibernate and TJDO personally, but might be worth adding this project to just the comparison grid: jRelationalFramework version 2.0 http://jrf.sourceforge.net/ The author of SimpleORM has this document that might be a good starting point for some comparisons: http://www.uq.net.au/~zzabergl/simpleorm/ORMTools.html Personally I think that this is more than enough to review in an hour, Agree. Perhaps on the list there are other folks who have intimate experience with one or more of these technologies already? Could split things up to multiple folks, but work on the same example scenario? If this is selected as the next topic. I would like some specific questions asked now, so I can prepare the answers for the presentation. 1) Is it easy to use? 2) Is it easy to use? ;-) 3) Does it impose any constraints on the DB design? (or conversely, will it work with a schema that you didn't design, wouldn't have designed, and was just plain designed by a raving lunatic...but now can't be changed?) 4) Does it adapt well to changes in schema? 5) Does it have cacheing built in? 6) How query-intensive is it? (i.e. how many queries does it take to restore a listed of objects that have nested objects) Looking forward to this! Tim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Richard Hightower CTO | LearningPatterns, Inc. Global Java Education, Mentoring, Courseware Consulting Services +520-290-6855 direct 55 Broad Street , 18th Floor | New York NY 10004 w w w . l e a r n i n g p a t t e r n s . c o m w w w . t r i v e r a t e c h . c o m (new merger) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] dec. presentation recap
A presentation on O/R Tools sounds great. I have quite an interest in the subject since we wrote one at AMO. I don't have anything lined up for the December presentation, so this sounds fantastic. We still need a good supply of 15 min presenters though, so don't hesitate to volunteer if you think of something. Actually, even if you can only think of a topic, suggest it on the mailling list and there is bound to be someone who can present on it. Simon. Warner Onstine wrote: Now, anyone else? I would like to see a few more votes (from people that regularly attend - no offense) before locking this down. Plus I don't know if Simon had any other possible presenters lined up, Simon? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] dec. presentation recap
I stayed at the Vegas Hilton but I heard Luxor had a great breakfast buffet -Original Message- From: Tim Colson [mailto:tcolson;cisco.com] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 1:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [jug-discussion] dec. presentation recap Simon - We still need a good supply of 15 min presenters though, so don't hesitate to volunteer if you think of something. My offer to do a quickie preso on Thinlet.com stuff still stands if anyone is interested. FYI - I'm also looking into enode.com, swingml.com, and luxor...but thinlet would be easy to do in 10-15 min since I've worked with it already. Cheers, Tim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] dec. presentation recap
Tim, That's great. You're on the list then. So far, then, for the December presentation we have: Short presentation- Tim speaking on Thinlets Long presentation- Warner speaking on O/R Tools If we get more suggestions we'll have a vote. Simon. Tim Colson wrote: Simon - We still need a good supply of 15 min presenters though, so don't hesitate to volunteer if you think of something. My offer to do a quickie preso on Thinlet.com stuff still stands if anyone is interested. FYI - I'm also looking into enode.com, swingml.com, and luxor...but thinlet would be easy to do in 10-15 min since I've worked with it already. Cheers, Tim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] dec. presentation recap
+1 for the O/R tools comparison. I agree that adding EJB would be too much in one presentation. Eddie --- Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, Before we get too deep here, I would like to know if we have enough +1's for O/R tools for the meeting: Tim +1 Warner +1 Nick +1 (even if no EJB?) Andy +1 Tom Hicks +1 I'll throw in Drew's +1, because he asked me about Torque a while ago, but I don't know if he'll be able to make it and I know Randy was curious as well (he was the one who pointed me towards Hibernate). Now, anyone else? I would like to see a few more votes (from people that regularly attend - no offense) before locking this down. Plus I don't know if Simon had any other possible presenters lined up, Simon? Thank you for your time, you may now return to your previously scheduled program. -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Sun will trademark anything
Warner Onstine wrote: A, someone from Sun on the list (hides head in shame ;-). Actually, not just someone from Sun. Rob is the Chairman of the JCP (sm). - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] dec. presentation recap
I'd also just like to see the O/R tools for the presentation sans EJB. Rene Warner Onstine wrote: Ok, Before we get too deep here, I would like to know if we have enough +1's for O/R tools for the meeting: Tim +1 Warner +1 Nick +1 (even if no EJB?) Andy +1 Tom Hicks +1 I'll throw in Drew's +1, because he asked me about Torque a while ago, but I don't know if he'll be able to make it and I know Randy was curious as well (he was the one who pointed me towards Hibernate). Now, anyone else? I would like to see a few more votes (from people that regularly attend - no offense) before locking this down. Plus I don't know if Simon had any other possible presenters lined up, Simon? Thank you for your time, you may now return to your previously scheduled program. -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[jug-discussion] dec. presentation/jan. presentation
Ok, Since the general consensus is that EJB requires it's own presentation - (BTW who did the last one and can we put a link on the site directing people to it?) I'm going to propose the following: Let's keep the current presentation to 4 tools (max), please vote for your favorite. Castor (castor.exolab.org) Hibernate (http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/) Torque (jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque) OJB (jakarta.apache.org/ojb) TJDO (http://tjdo.sourceforge.net/) My preference would be to drop TJDO and then present that later on it's own. In addition what I would like to do is use a standard schema for this presentation as well as the EJB presentation (and TJDO one if it comes to that). -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] dec. presentation/jan. presentation
My votes ;-) On Thursday, November 14, 2002, at 02:03 PM, Warner Onstine wrote: Ok, Since the general consensus is that EJB requires it's own presentation - (BTW who did the last one and can we put a link on the site directing people to it?) I'm going to propose the following: Let's keep the current presentation to 4 tools (max), please vote for your favorite. Castor (castor.exolab.org) Hibernate (http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/) +1 Torque (jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque) +1 OJB (jakarta.apache.org/ojb) +1 TJDO (http://tjdo.sourceforge.net/) My preference would be to drop TJDO and then present that later on it's own. In addition what I would like to do is use a standard schema for this presentation as well as the EJB presentation (and TJDO one if it comes to that). -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] [dec presentation] survey of O/R tools
At 04:59 PM 11/13/2002 -0700, Warner wrote: If this is selected as the next topic. I would like some specific questions asked now, so I can prepare the answers for the presentation. 1. What entity relationships does the ORMapping support? 11. one-to-one 22. one-to-may 33. many-to-many 44. dependent (weak) entities (class dependent on another) aa. Does it also handle cascaded deletes and such constraints? 55. strong entities (class relating to another) 66. class extending another aa. how does it do this (one-inheritance-tree-one-table or otherwise)? 2. Does it autogenerate unique IDs? 3. Does it allow a Java class to map to more than one DB table? 4. What kind of Query processing does it support? (ODQL, SQL, proprietary)? 5. Read vs. Write performance? 6. Space vs. performance? 7. Does it have a programmable API? If so, what languages does it support? 8. Which platforms does it run on? Other requirements (libraries, packages, etc.)? 9. What is the cost? (probably not applicable to the ones you picked). 10. How does it persist? (alter byte code, Persistance Manager class, XML config file Looking forward to your presentation. -tom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] dec. presentation/jan. presentation
At 02:03 PM 11/14/2002 -0700, you wrote: Let's keep the current presentation to 4 tools (max), please vote for your favorite. Castor (castor.exolab.org) +1 Hibernate (http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/) +1 Torque (jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque) +1 OJB (jakarta.apache.org/ojb) +1 -tom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] dec. presentation/jan. presentation
s/+1/+2/g Michael Oliver AppsAsPeers LLC 7391 S. Bullrider Ave. Tucson, AZ 85747 Phone:(520)574-1150 Fax:(520)844-1036 -Original Message- From: Thomas Hicks [mailto:hickst;tohono.com] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 2:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] dec. presentation/jan. presentation At 02:03 PM 11/14/2002 -0700, you wrote: Let's keep the current presentation to 4 tools (max), please vote for your favorite. Castor (castor.exolab.org) +1 Hibernate (http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/) +1 Torque (jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque) +1 OJB (jakarta.apache.org/ojb) +1 -tom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] dec. presentation/jan. presentation
Sick! Shouldn't that be s/\+1/\+2/g anyway? Mike Oliver wrote: s/+1/+2/g Michael Oliver AppsAsPeers LLC 7391 S. Bullrider Ave. Tucson, AZ 85747 Phone:(520)574-1150 Fax:(520)844-1036 -Original Message- From: Thomas Hicks [mailto:hickst;tohono.com] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 2:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] dec. presentation/jan. presentation At 02:03 PM 11/14/2002 -0700, you wrote: Let's keep the current presentation to 4 tools (max), please vote for your favorite. Castor (castor.exolab.org) +1 Hibernate (http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/) +1 Torque (jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque) +1 OJB (jakarta.apache.org/ojb) +1 -tom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] dec. presentation/jan. presentation
At 02:44 PM 11/14/2002 -0700, you wrote: Sick! Shouldn't that be s/\+1/\+2/g anyway? Not in VI, but maybe he was doing SED? -tom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] [dec presentation] survey of O/R tools
answers for EJB CMP CMR At 04:59 PM 11/13/2002 -0700, Warner wrote: If this is selected as the next topic. I would like some specific questions asked now, so I can prepare the answers for the presentation. 1. What entity relationships does the ORMapping support? 11. one-to-one yes 22. one-to-may yes 33. many-to-many yes 44. dependent (weak) entities (class dependent on another) vendor specific aa. Does it also handle cascaded deletes and such constraints? yes 55. strong entities (class relating to another) don't uderstand question 66. class extending another aa. how does it do this (one-inheritance-tree-one-table or otherwise)? not easily 2. Does it autogenerate unique IDs? yes. (vendor specific) 3. Does it allow a Java class to map to more than one DB table? yes. (vendor specific) 4. What kind of Query processing does it support? (ODQL, SQL, proprietary)? EJBQL 5. Read vs. Write performance? vendor specific Fast... (it can cahce data and opt how data is loaded) 6. Space vs. performance? ? 7. Does it have a programmable API? If so, what languages does it support? supports java... 8. Which platforms does it run on? Other requirements (libraries, packages, etc.)? any j2ee compliant app server 9. What is the cost? (probably not applicable to the ones you picked). free for open source, $1000 for server deployment, up to $10 per server for high end 10. How does it persist? (alter byte code, Persistance Manager class, XML config file Handled by ejb container Looking forward to your presentation. -tom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Richard Hightower CTO | LearningPatterns, Inc. Global Java Education, Mentoring, Courseware Consulting Services +520-290-6855 direct 55 Broad Street , 18th Floor | New York NY 10004 w w w . l e a r n i n g p a t t e r n s . c o m w w w . t r i v e r a t e c h . c o m (new merger) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] [dec presentation] survey of O/R tools
True but even then weblogic had a much better community and documentation base. 6 of one... -Original Message- From: Richard Hightower [mailto:rhightower;learningpatterns.com] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 3:25 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [jug-discussion] [dec presentation] survey of O/R tools John, Yes. Resin EE has improved. For that matter if you compare WebLogic 6.0 from that time period when you were working with Resin CMP to the 7.0 release of WebLogic you would notice that WebLogic has improved too. WebLogic works really well now. It had problems back then too. It takes a few releases to get the kinks out. WebLogic 6.1 does not fully implement EJB CMP 2.0. WebLogic 7.0 does. I would add to your list. Is it well documented? Is it easy to configure? Does it have community support? (more people that use it, more bugs get found and fixed) Can you get other support? Can you find info on it and best practices with it (with books, articles, etc.)? Can you hire someone off the street who can do it? Is it a standard? Does it have XDoclet support? Do these questions refer to the difference between EJB CMR/P and OR Tools? If so then my biggest issue is the container dependent implementations of J2EE. As I remember Resin was been pretty horrific in regards to many of these questions. Weblogic is WAY better, but costs a lot of $$. Has Resin improved in relation to: 1 2 3 4 and 6? I would like to offer a presentation for December's topic covering Object-Relational mapping tools. An emphatic +1 :-) Some of the tools I would be reviewing will be: Castor (castor.exolab.org) Hibernate (http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/) Torque (jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque) OJB (jakarta.apache.org/ojb) TJDO (http://tjdo.sourceforge.net/) I'm most interested in Hibernate and TJDO personally, but might be worth adding this project to just the comparison grid: jRelationalFramework version 2.0 http://jrf.sourceforge.net/ The author of SimpleORM has this document that might be a good starting point for some comparisons: http://www.uq.net.au/~zzabergl/simpleorm/ORMTools.html Personally I think that this is more than enough to review in an hour, Agree. Perhaps on the list there are other folks who have intimate experience with one or more of these technologies already? Could split things up to multiple folks, but work on the same example scenario? If this is selected as the next topic. I would like some specific questions asked now, so I can prepare the answers for the presentation. 1) Is it easy to use? 2) Is it easy to use? ;-) 3) Does it impose any constraints on the DB design? (or conversely, will it work with a schema that you didn't design, wouldn't have designed, and was just plain designed by a raving lunatic...but now can't be changed?) 4) Does it adapt well to changes in schema? 5) Does it have cacheing built in? 6) How query-intensive is it? (i.e. how many queries does it take to restore a listed of objects that have nested objects) Looking forward to this! Tim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Richard Hightower CTO | LearningPatterns, Inc. Global Java Education, Mentoring, Courseware Consulting Services +520-290-6855 direct 55 Broad Street , 18th Floor | New York NY 10004 w w w . l e a r n i n g p a t t e r n s . c o m w w w . t r i v e r a t e c h . c o m (new merger) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Richard Hightower CTO | LearningPatterns, Inc. Global Java Education, Mentoring, Courseware Consulting Services +520-290-6855 direct 55 Broad Street , 18th Floor | New York NY 10004 w w w . l e a r n i n g p a t t e r n s . c o m w w w . t r i v e r a t e c h . c o m (new merger) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] [dec presentation] survey of O/R tools
i agree. resin's is good. the question was not better, but good. all True but even then weblogic had a much better community and documentation base. 6 of one... -Original Message- From: Richard Hightower [mailto:rhightower;learningpatterns.com] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 3:25 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [jug-discussion] [dec presentation] survey of O/R tools John, Yes. Resin EE has improved. For that matter if you compare WebLogic 6.0 from that time period when you were working with Resin CMP to the 7.0 release of WebLogic you would notice that WebLogic has improved too. WebLogic works really well now. It had problems back then too. It takes a few releases to get the kinks out. WebLogic 6.1 does not fully implement EJB CMP 2.0. WebLogic 7.0 does. I would add to your list. Is it well documented? Is it easy to configure? Does it have community support? (more people that use it, more bugs get found and fixed) Can you get other support? Can you find info on it and best practices with it (with books, articles, etc.)? Can you hire someone off the street who can do it? Is it a standard? Does it have XDoclet support? Do these questions refer to the difference between EJB CMR/P and OR Tools? If so then my biggest issue is the container dependent implementations of J2EE. As I remember Resin was been pretty horrific in regards to many of these questions. Weblogic is WAY better, but costs a lot of $$. Has Resin improved in relation to: 1 2 3 4 and 6? I would like to offer a presentation for December's topic covering Object-Relational mapping tools. An emphatic +1 :-) Some of the tools I would be reviewing will be: Castor (castor.exolab.org) Hibernate (http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/) Torque (jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque) OJB (jakarta.apache.org/ojb) TJDO (http://tjdo.sourceforge.net/) I'm most interested in Hibernate and TJDO personally, but might be worth adding this project to just the comparison grid: jRelationalFramework version 2.0 http://jrf.sourceforge.net/ The author of SimpleORM has this document that might be a good starting point for some comparisons: http://www.uq.net.au/~zzabergl/simpleorm/ORMTools.html Personally I think that this is more than enough to review in an hour, Agree. Perhaps on the list there are other folks who have intimate experience with one or more of these technologies already? Could split things up to multiple folks, but work on the same example scenario? If this is selected as the next topic. I would like some specific questions asked now, so I can prepare the answers for the presentation. 1) Is it easy to use? 2) Is it easy to use? ;-) 3) Does it impose any constraints on the DB design? (or conversely, will it work with a schema that you didn't design, wouldn't have designed, and was just plain designed by a raving lunatic...but now can't be changed?) 4) Does it adapt well to changes in schema? 5) Does it have cacheing built in? 6) How query-intensive is it? (i.e. how many queries does it take to restore a listed of objects that have nested objects) Looking forward to this! Tim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Richard Hightower CTO | LearningPatterns, Inc. Global Java Education, Mentoring, Courseware Consulting Services +520-290-6855 direct 55 Broad Street , 18th Floor | New York NY 10004 w w w . l e a r n i n g p a t t e r n s . c o m w w w . t r i v e r a t e c h . c o m (new merger) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Richard Hightower CTO | LearningPatterns, Inc. Global Java Education, Mentoring, Courseware Consulting Services +520-290-6855 direct 55 Broad Street , 18th Floor | New York NY 10004 w w w . l e a r n i n g p a t t e r n s . c o m w w w . t r i v e r a t e c h . c o m (new merger) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Richard Hightower CTO | LearningPatterns, Inc. Global Java Education, Mentoring, Courseware Consulting Services +520-290-6855 direct 55 Broad Street , 18th Floor | New York NY 10004 w w w . l e a r n i n g p a t t e r n s . c o m w w w . t r i v e r a t e c h . c o m (new merger) -
Re: [jug-discussion] dec. presentation recap
it has OR support +1 for O/R tools. I don't think EJB counts as an O/R tool, and the EJB vs. O/R tools discussion would make a fine topic all by its self. I would especially like to see a knowledgable proponent for each duke it out. Maybe we could find an impartial (hah!) moderator. Warner Onstine wrote: Ok, Before we get too deep here, I would like to know if we have enough +1's for O/R tools for the meeting: Tim +1 Warner +1 Nick +1 (even if no EJB?) Andy +1 Tom Hicks +1 I'll throw in Drew's +1, because he asked me about Torque a while ago, but I don't know if he'll be able to make it and I know Randy was curious as well (he was the one who pointed me towards Hibernate). Now, anyone else? I would like to see a few more votes (from people that regularly attend - no offense) before locking this down. Plus I don't know if Simon had any other possible presenters lined up, Simon? Thank you for your time, you may now return to your previously scheduled program. -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Richard Hightower CTO | LearningPatterns, Inc. Global Java Education, Mentoring, Courseware Consulting Services +520-290-6855 direct 55 Broad Street , 18th Floor | New York NY 10004 w w w . l e a r n i n g p a t t e r n s . c o m w w w . t r i v e r a t e c h . c o m (new merger) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] list policy
Heat is difficult. It would take a lot to get our systems manager to raise the temperature of that room. And he would demand payment in Guinness. :) I'd gladly pay in Guinness. grin Seriously though, aren't there any conference rooms that aren't sub-arctic that could be used? :-) Or perhaps the University, would allow the use of a lecture hall for a small fee? Has anybody already explored this route, or should I make a few calls to check? -TLC - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] dec. presentation/jan. presentation
Castor (castor.exolab.org) +0 Hibernate (http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/) +1 Torque (jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque) +1 OJB (jakarta.apache.org/ojb) -1 TJDO (http://tjdo.sourceforge.net/) -1 My preference would be to drop TJDO and then present that later on it's own. +1 OJB seems to also be gearing toward having a JDO API. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
