Re: [jug-discussion] RE: Bagging on ASF...or not
On Feb 24, 2005, at 1:11 PM, John D. Mitchell wrote: Erik == Erik Hatcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Feb 23, 2005, at 12:48 PM, John D. Mitchell wrote: [...] But sure, I'll concede that yours really is bigger than mine if you want to play that game :) Funny how you've managed to turn it around into some kind of chest thumping thing. Naw, I expected the ironic humor to come through (because that's a kind of argument that's made all too often on the mailing lists and newsgroups). Alas. So you're now guilty of doing exactly that which you complain about. Now that is ironic! :) Even more ironic is that you brought this thread back to life with a reply of mine that was sent to you privately (yes, I did agree that it was acceptable to bring it back to the list), and brought it to a community list specific to a community that neither of us actually reside. I suppose the hard-core sociologists would have a field day with the irony of it all. Erik Mea culpa, John - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[jug-discussion] RE: Bagging on ASF...or not
However, please note that the focus was on the ASF as an organization and how their (lack of) leadership has failed the entire community. Howdy John, et. al I probably would have agreed/shared a lot of John's opinions on ASF... up until this week. I've started talking with the chaps in Apache Infrastructure to try and help understand why wiki.apache.org runs an antiquated MoinMoin install and what I can do to help. These dudes have jobs just like the rest of us, and yet they are flying in from as far away as the UK (perhaps farther) to relocate servers to a different colo facility and do some upgrades in person. And I got to thinking, Uh... yeah, it may be a mess...but what am *I* doing to help? And uh, what organization have I -EVER- been a part of that despite the best intentions, actually delivers on them? And why is that? Are they all incompetent morons? Are they eeevil? Hmm... no, probably they're [volunteer] humans... some smarter than others, some with opinions stronger than others, some who can -donate- more time than others... but in the end, a meritocracy probably is measured by popularity... and by and large ASF's end product(s) are better than a stick in the eye. I think in long rambling sentences. Normally I am not so charitable towards less than perfect organizations...but my head is softening after years of beating it against the walls. ;-) Oh...Jetspeed and Tomcat still suck. grin Cheers, Timo - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] RE: Bagging on ASF...or not
Tim - that is an excellent point and one I should have thought of. I've been watching your infrastructure posts recently. John is a member of this so-called community that has apparently been failed by ASF or is he? What has he done to help? Show me a list of patches or bug reports or even e-mails to the *community* he feels free to poke at from the _outside_. Being such a wise student of life, you know better than most that its all about *experiencing*. Philosophizing is bullshit. *Being* what you preach is true enlightenment. Join that which you feel is evil. Embrace it. Help it. Ya know John... patches always accepted!:) Erik On Feb 23, 2005, at 12:08 PM, Tim Colson (tcolson) wrote: However, please note that the focus was on the ASF as an organization and how their (lack of) leadership has failed the entire community. Howdy John, et. al I probably would have agreed/shared a lot of John's opinions on ASF... up until this week. I've started talking with the chaps in Apache Infrastructure to try and help understand why wiki.apache.org runs an antiquated MoinMoin install and what I can do to help. These dudes have jobs just like the rest of us, and yet they are flying in from as far away as the UK (perhaps farther) to relocate servers to a different colo facility and do some upgrades in person. And I got to thinking, Uh... yeah, it may be a mess...but what am *I* doing to help? And uh, what organization have I -EVER- been a part of that despite the best intentions, actually delivers on them? And why is that? Are they all incompetent morons? Are they eeevil? Hmm... no, probably they're [volunteer] humans... some smarter than others, some with opinions stronger than others, some who can -donate- more time than others... but in the end, a meritocracy probably is measured by popularity... and by and large ASF's end product(s) are better than a stick in the eye. I think in long rambling sentences. Normally I am not so charitable towards less than perfect organizations...but my head is softening after years of beating it against the walls. ;-) Oh...Jetspeed and Tomcat still suck. grin Cheers, Timo - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] RE: Bagging on ASF...or not
Erik == Erik Hatcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] John is a member of this so-called community that has apparently been failed by ASF or is he? What has he done to help? Show me a list of patches or bug reports or even e-mails to the *community* he feels free to poke at from the _outside_. Bullshit. I've been helping and contributing to free/open source projects for longer than you've been programming. Including you and yours. Also, I'm critcizing the ASF and it's leadership. As far as I'm concerned, the community is the entire F/OSS world. Alas, this sort of insular, our way or the highway attitude is a big, fundamental part of the problem. Being such a wise student of life, you know better than most that its all about *experiencing*. Philosophizing is bullshit. *Being* what you preach is true enlightenment. Join that which you feel is evil. Embrace it. Help it. Sorry, I have no interest in supporting self-righteous crusades. There's plenty of people who are not only worthy but who actually want help. Take care, John - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] RE: Bagging on ASF...or not
On Feb 23, 2005, at 12:48 PM, John D. Mitchell wrote: Bullshit. I've been helping and contributing to free/open source projects for longer than you've been programming. Including you and yours. Really? I believe you're only like a year older than me and I started coding when I was 7 years old (1977). But sure, I'll concede that yours really is bigger than mine if you want to play that game :) Funny how you've managed to turn it around into some kind of chest thumping thing. Erik - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
