Warner et. al.
Is there an archive for this list so I can get up to speed on what's
been discussed over the past few months?
I never got into the whole OS 8/9 thing
Heh heh... My Mac days started with the 128K Mac and proceeded until I
fell out of favor with the cult somewhere around oh '93
Well, I was curious to see...looks like mySQL hasn't implemented
sub-selects every as yet. Bummer. But, they show the LEFT JOIN
alternative as Vincent has already pointed out. :-)
http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/ANSI_diff_Sub-selects.html
Excerpt:
MySQL Server currently only supports nested
+1 on SWT preso, especially if there was some info on using it
standalone and/or deployed using java web start, and/or on a Jeode JVM.
Due to the lack of volunteers to present for the next meeting
Well, thinking in a vaguely similar vein, the Thinlet.com stuff builds
widgets entirely with AWT
Howdy Folks -
As promised in the meeting, here are two links to an introductory and
follow-up article on using Java Web Start (JWS).
---
Deploying Software with JNLP and JavaTM Web Start
Going Beyond the Java Plug-in
By John Zukowski
Well, [Warner] personally have some issues with EJB ;-). If I saw a
good
presentation on it maybe I'd change my mind.
I agree with you, especially with the 1.1 spec, but I did see a
compelling preso on 2.x last year at JavaOne...Tyler Jewell from BEA
gave a talk on EJB 2.x and fired me up to
plus I'm still waiting to hear about my Membership proposal ;-).
If membership fees enable more heat and snacks at the meetings, then I'm
all for em'. grin
Tim
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His scope was TOO BIG from
the beginning and certainly doesn't need widening!
+1
(That's why I want to get my favorites near the top. grin)
I advocate that
we stick with the original idea (maybe even cut it down to 3 or 4)
and save the EJB stuff for sometime later (maybe the following
Heat is difficult. It would take a lot to get our systems
manager to raise the temperature of that room. And he would
demand payment in Guinness. :)
I'd gladly pay in Guinness. grin
Seriously though, aren't there any conference rooms that aren't
sub-arctic that could be used? :-)
Or
Castor (castor.exolab.org)
+0
Hibernate (http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/)
+1
Torque (jakarta.apache.org/turbine/torque)
+1
OJB (jakarta.apache.org/ojb)
-1
TJDO (http://tjdo.sourceforge.net/)
-1
My preference would be to drop TJDO and then present that
later on it's own.
+1
OJB seems
Hey folks -
I just ran across an old work email of mine with some JDO discussion.
I'm not sure where the link is on the website, but when I first joined
the list, I think Simon sent around a link to a previous discussion on
Solarmetrics JDO product (Kodo JDO).
http://www.solarmetric.com/
Does anyone have some up to date JDK 1.4.x drag and drop code examples?
Thanks,
Timo
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What's the manifest/file structure look like?
Probably wrong, but could it be case sensitivity in the manifest file
Main Class attrib?
Tim
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Say - if you're looking for a coding exercise that isn't quite so...uh..
pedestrian (sorry, injected my own opinion there grin), I've been
playing with the JXTA Peer2Peer code kit and would love to collaborate
with somebody.
P2P with yourself isn't much fun. ;-)
My goal currently is to:
1) get
Seriously though... I hadn't realized until this morning that the
Thinlet idea for a mini-preso was green lighted. ;-)
1. We twist Tim's arm and make him do a longer presentation
on Thinlets.
I can do a 15 min talk about almost anything (including probably Yuma)
with only a days notice... but
I'm starting to get excited about trying to code something again.
I understand. Intellij IDEA did that for me with Java.
One feature that actually thrilled me, especially when I was newish to
Java is auto-import of packages. Type ArrayList and a little pop-up
balloon appears with the suggestion
Say folks - this is off topic - just wondering if anybody (or somebody
you know) has a Sony VAIO portable CD I could borrow for a day or two?
Thanks,
Tim
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Someone with more JWS experience can confirm/deny/correct...but I am
under the impression that if you launch the application using a Java Web
Start JNLP file, all of the jars will be cached. Additionally, if the
library jars are referenced with an absolute URL in the JNLP, then those
jars can be
If interested in Java Web Start - have a look here:
http://vamphq.com/
-- All sorts of resources.
http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-07-2001/jw-0706-webstart.html
-- JavaWorld July 2001 article.
http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Programming/jn
lp/
-- Simple how-to from
Anthony -
Although Web Start looks interesting, I was thinking in terms of
deploying a standalone application. The calculator example from the
Thinlet site, for example, can be deployed either as an
application or an applet. Same for the demo app.
Sounds to me like there might be some
Warner will be doing his long-awaited presentation on
Whoo Hoo. I await the preso with baited breath. :-)
However, we are still in need of a presenter for the 15min time slot.
Heh heh... if truly nobody steps up, I'll gladly do the super-short
version of the Thinlet preso again since most
There's a very nice article on ZDNet discussing how FCCI
Dennis -
Thanks for that, indeed a good article. I especially liked the nods to
Velocity as a template engine (it rocks) and later the mention of
Thinlets and Swing Apps as a next step up from servlets.
We have progressed from writing
Tom wrote:
p.s. So, just to make it official, I vote for the:
TJUG green gecko tricolor by Tim Colson/Thomas Hicks:
Well, Tom apparently not only has no shame...but is also scarce on
humility. ;-)
If Tom's 'derivative form' of my logo submission is selected, I'll at
least be obliged to create
:( You didn't buy the definitive guide, huh? That would be Java
Development with Ant (Manning). :))
Hah. Why buy the cow when the milk is free? grin
Seriously - you are way too helpful - so I just ordered/dloaded the
ebook. :-)
ORDER SUBMITTED
Drew asked:
Are these hibernate files actually becoming part of the source
(i.e. you build then modify the files) or are they build artifacts
(i.e. you generate them every time you build)?
Good points from both Drew and Erik.
Right now the hibernate mapping files are part of the source
Eddie said he can speak for about half an hour. How long do you think
you will speak for Tim?
Well, I could drone on for hours... but that'd impact beer drinkin'
time. grin
Seriously, the VelocityTools stuff is prolly 20-30 min and the JavaOne
stuff is about 10-15.
Timo
Hmm... I lied folks. Apparently I took more notes at JavaOne 2003 than
at first I remembered. (I had a nasty cold for the entire week, so I
honestly don't remember parts of the week.)
Anyway - I've got 25 slides so far and another 10 pages of notes to
condense.
There are bits that might even be
Howdy Rob -
Sun takes little of the financial risk involved in putting on JavaOne,
and thus gets little of the money paid by attendees,
Ah, I understand, makes sense...
I don't begrudge the original quote since, just looking on the surface
of it, I'd have the same gripe he did if I thought
look like we've had too many volunteers for
presentations. I
guess we can either go with your Velocity + Struts
presentation or skip
the meeting. How long is your presentation?
Simon.
Tim Colson wrote:
Howdy Folks -
The traffic on the list and attendance at the meetings
Howdy Folks -
The traffic on the list and attendance at the meetings for the last
couple months has been...shall I say, less robust than normal. Summer
months involve travel, family vacations and such - so this is probably
to be expected.
Unless there are a lot of folks planning to show up
Hey folks - a quick but late followup here (I was out of the country the
past two weeks.)
We do a mix of what Erik and Rene described.
We create a db-neutral create template which builds the schema, and
another template which populates data.
Ant runs the show - first taking the template and
Howdy folks -
I'm still good with the Tuesday meeting. Looks like that is Veterans
Day - not one that is observed where I work.
Cheers,
Timo
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Chad wrote:
Unfortunately, I work from Phoenix Mon-Wed, so I can never make the
meetings, or else I would volunteer for some presentations.
I did make the Velocity presentation, and I'm very glad I did.
We need to webcast the meetings :)
Interesting idea.
Live broadcast would be
Some dude named Hatcher wrote an article on Lucene for Java.net:
http://today.java.net/pub/a/today/2003/11/07/QueryParserRules.html
Cheers,
Timo
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I thought this was a fun read. :-)
Timo
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http://www.theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=22300
Cameron Purdy started a blogfest with his original piece, gratuitously
titled, Why does Open Source suck?. He is a little sick at how some
people see projects that are open source as
Hatcher wrote:
I think a few locals have used it:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/047120708X
Vince admitted that he'd used it too.
I'd sure be interested in a preso/intro in person. ;-)
Timo
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Elly -
I have thought about your suggestion during the weekend.
Actually, it wasn't a suggestion. It was a question for my own
theoretical application which has different req'ts from the MD3 app. :-)
Every peer will be contacted in some way that the
information of all other peers in the
Long topic - An Introduction to J2ME Development - Jeffrey Peacock
Dec 8...rats, it sucks that I'll be in SJ that week. :-(
Jeffrey has several presentations on J2ME
'Advanced J2ME Development'
+1
'Java On A Chip: Robotics using the Javelin Stamp'.
+1 + cl, I want one
What are some of the IT consulting companies in Tucson that
do custom programming/services (not specifically Java)?
Well, here's a few that I know of specifically:
All interesting, but most of the example appear to be one person
operations.
Are there any consulting companies of say 50-60
Howdy Gang -
I'm generally a fan of beer and wine, but does seem kind of a shame
not to have a java topic first. :-(
Curious - anybody interested in JXTA coding?
http://www.jxta.org/servlets/ReadMsg?msgId=89518listName=discuss
I'm thinking about folks jumping onto a LAN and working through
Bruce -
I can't help on the cottage/guesthouse thing, but the entire city is
fairly mellow in my opinion, and good
hiking/road-biking/mtn-biking/rollerblading/rock-climbing is everywhere
- if you aren't a wuss about the heat. ;-)
does the time/place get sent here?
http://tucson-jug.org/ has
Hey Folks -
Looking at my original email, I see now that I should have worded it
better or sent two separate emails.
I was trying to say two things:
1) it would be a shame to not have some Java topic before socializing.
I thought this might goad Simon/Warner into at least a 15 minute talk.
Howdy folks -
Let me try this again. :-)
I think it might be fun to grab some burritos from a local place (ex.
Chipotle/Rubios/Chuy's) and work on a little bit of code in a group.
Extreme programming in action. :-)
I'm personally interested in stuff that I can't try out in my day-job.
JXTA,
What sequence is going to work best? I'm guessing:
My vote would be for the reverse order. Gives Nick plenty of time plus a
chance to get us familiar with some of the concepts that might be
revisited by Chad/Andrew.
3. Nick - Mock Objects using Aspect (1hr)
2. Chad - Bytecode manipulation as
Not necessarily Java - the dev site is down so I can't verify... but
darn interesting none the less...
I was cleaning up a few files, and ran across my notes on a 3 year old
quest of mine to re-find ChipWits. Ostensibly, CW was a game written
in MacForth that ran on the original 128K Mac. The
I happened to be browsing Atlassians Open Source page... started looking
at FatCow and liked what I saw. It's a wiki macro that runs HTML test
cases using HTTP Unit. I think that is a truly novel idea! I'd even do a
preso on it.
http://opensource.atlassian.com/
The only downside... FatCow (oh
Say Todd -
After you get that preso ready for the PHX JUG, what kind of bribe
might it take to convince you to take the presentation on a roadshow
down to the Old Pueblo for a TJUG meeting?
Cheers,
Tim
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Hey there -
Fawcette just spammed me with an invite to get a free year of Visual
Studio Developer. Sure. Why not. They also forced me to tell them which
VS technology I use... so I picked C# for grins mostly.
But just yesterday I noticed that www.codenotes.com converted from J2EE
to .NET, and I
Hey gang -
I love seeing new people come to the meetings. It broadens the
knowledge base, expands the range of experience, and improves the
chances for interesting topics and discussion. And more participation
leads to paradoxically to more participation.
So please do a little thing to help
Simon / Warner -
I'm just curious if there is a topic(s) for March yet?
If not - then I'm going to ask Drew, real nice-like, if he'd consider
giving an OGNL preso. :-)
Cheers,
Timo
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Nick -
I rememeber a discussion on this list about tools for JAR slimming:
ditching all the classes in a JAR than can be proved by
static analysis to be unused by your code.
I wasn't around for that discussion (or I claim ignorance)... but it's
an interesting idea. Due to reflection,
Yes, Cia and I will be doing Usability and Programming
(focusing on Web
and desktop apps). Rob Gingell (I believe) is singed on to do
an update on the JCP.
Good God Man! That's fantastic. :-)
Rob Gingell singing.. that'd be fun too. grin
So, howabout getting this Next Meeting - March 9
Warner wrote:
BTW - The domain is due to expire soon, it would be nice if someone
else could pay for the two years this time 'round. Maybe a collection
plate at the next meeting ;-). It ain't much, I think $15/year.
Looks like tucson-jug.org is hosted/registered by ProRoom.com, and
they are
As to the Powerbook, it was totaled. $1000 for repairs.
Ouch. :-(
So I bought a new one. 17 inch monitor, 1.3 ghz G4, 1.5 gigs of RAM.
I am now the ubergeek.
Indeed! And I bow down before your geekiness... 1.5 gigs of RAM. Wow.
-Timo
Hey folks -
It's only a week away, howabout updating the website to show the future
meeting schedule (dates and speakers where known)? When folks browse the
site currently, they don't know there is a new meeting coming up or what
to expect.
Cheers,
Timo
I know it takes time to keep up with stuff like that but it
would be great
for the group to have the site updated whenever the speakers
are set for a meeting.
+1 :-)
I threw together a CSS based revamp of the site and just emailed it to
Warner and Rene for consideration. It includes the
Hey gang -
I was looking for the date for that Tech Oasis mtg tonight... and ran
across this calendar:
http://atic.researchedge.com/cal/2004/0304.html
For monthly e-mail or fax distribution of the ATIC Calendar or if you
have comments or notice of upcoming events for inclusion, please contact
Drew said:
They all fail to realize that a build
system *is* a process, and a script is a closer
analog to some tasks than a declarative model.
+1 on this, and most of the rest of Drew's post... (not including the
farting bit, on that I'm -1 ;-)
I dig simple ant stuff... but the more
Robert wrote:
suffice it to say that I'm not convinced that [Struts is] the
framework for me... at least not for this project.
It's kind of funny to me. Two years ago at JavaOne, Craig McClanahan and
Struts seemed to be the talk of the show. I'm in the minority, but I'm
not a fan of JSP. So our
Some colleagues are trying out OptimalJ and this MDA thing.
I'm wondering if anybody has used this stuff?
On a similar topic...
I think someone in a meeting once said there was a sales person wanting
to give us a demo of some tools (I don't know what tool).
Personally, I would not be
You have any URLs?
I haven't read any of these - but they are from the an MDA wiki page a
colleague setup internally:
OptimalJ http://www.compuware.com/products/optimalj/
OMG MDA site http://www.omg.org/mda/
MDA Productivity Analysis (PDF) from The Middleware Company: case study
of using MDA to
I just votedit seemed to allow me to select a time AND an Other,
which is kinda cool because I wanted to use the Other to elaborate
on my choice. Is that the way it's supposed to work, though?
Yep. I made it so folks can check all the ones that may apply.
For instance, I personally
Let me break this explicitly into two topics :-)
TOPIC 1: Acceptability of Product demos in meetings.
Also, there's the whole issue of wasting...er spending our one meeting
per month on a sales pitch.
Agreed -- that is the reason for the poll - did you vote? ;-)
Current talley:
60 min: 1
Consequently, I would be interested in presentations on [x,y,z]
but I would have little interest in [j].
Okay, so it is my fault for putting Optimal J and Product Demo in
one original email. But I brought up OptimalJ because it may be part of
my life in another few weeks. Originally I was just
So I think in general, if we have a choice between a vendor
presentation and something else, then the non-vendor
presentation should be the preference.
I'd prefer to have both - not an either/or choice. :-)
Vendor shows up, brings food or freebies, and gets a small amount of our
time
I've been working on logging application events (i.e. granular
'activities' of which several may happen during one HttpRequest). Along
with that, I have been checking out Servlet Filters and Listeners and
found a few good links with source worthy of sharing:
Writing Servlet Filters
by Kief
I'm getting a 404 on the above link...
Indeed you are - sorry about that folks... missing the trailing 'l'.
http://javaboutique.internet.com/tutorials/Servlet_Filters/index.html
Cheers,
Timo
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Currently there are only 11 votes, and I presume there are more folks
than that on the discussion list.
Please voice your opinion, be heard before we close the poll tonight!
:-)
http://www.pollmonkey.com/p.asp?U=249419879
It only takes 3 clicks.
Thanks!
Timo
Anybody have an external IBM floppy I could borrow? (needs to have the
funky little floppy cable/plug)
Thanks,
Tim
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I have to write a task that takes a group of directories convert
them to all lowercase (including filenames) and then zip them up.
something similar already or had any suggestions
Haha. In a past life when Perl scripts roamed more freely in my user
directory, I'd have done something like
From: Warner Onstine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] i'm lazy ;-), copy/move
uppercase files/folders to lower-case
So nobody picked up on my question about Groovy...
I'm not clear on what Groovy is built to do... isn't this kind of thing
it's Bag?
Warner said
sysadmin experience to know how to install Perl modules for Windows
boxes.
Heh heh - we all know you're just scared of the terse power of Perl like
Drew. ;-)
FYI, the script example I sent only used built-in modules. To do
recursion through dirs, you'd need to add a bit more of
Okay - so spurred on by Warners question about directories, I think I
might have hit upon something that COULD use a JSR. Maybe. :-)
FACT: Libraries are really helpful.
FACT: Libraries [in any language] are a pain to install/maintain.
FACT: There is usually dev talk about how to manually install
I've been smittin with Confluence and JIRA from those Atlassian folks,
but now I think they and a handful of others ( Eclipse, Intellij) are
changing how we think about software. If there is an Open API, then the
product can be extended in ways the company never imagined, or might
have imagined
Hey gang -
I've upgraded a couple machines for relatives, and have three more old
clunkers taking up too much space (these are Pentium 200 and BELOW class
machines).
I don't want to send them to the landfill, so worst case I'll drop
them at GoodWil. Before I do that, does anyone have
Hey gang -
Javaworld article from 1997 talks about the good/bad of static
finals compared to enumerated constants and provides a template for the
latter. Other JW articles expand on that theme over the years.
http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-07-1997/jw-07-enumerated_p.html
Found another
I thought this was funny considering our recent discussion of all things
JCP... here are two excerpts from the rant, emphasis on OGNL is mine.
I cannot believe that that toy, groovy, is now a JCP submission.
Why use such underhanded methods to leapfrog beanshell, __ognl__,
pnuts, and a host of
I cannot believe that that toy, groovy, is now a JCP submission.
Doh! I forgot the link:
http://www.jroller.com/page/fate/20040316#increase_your_girth_by_jsr
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Hey folks -
Maybe there are some brave souls on the list interested in giving a
short preso at the JUG, but maybe limited on time to prepare. If so,
this SQLTags topic seems like a good candidate for a mini-topic (15-25
minutes + QA) and due to the good documentation I would expect only a
few
Just happened upon this full-blown swing XML editor, and embeddable
component... thought it was interesting. Passing along because a few
other folks had talked about XML editor fun.
http://www.editix.com/
Cheers,
Timo
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To
I'm having fun/frustration with filters...
http://server/contextroot/ is not invoking a filter with
url-pattern/contextroot/*/url-pattern
Or several other various incarnations of the pattern. Ugh.
While searching for more information about url-patterns on TC 4.1, I ran
across this March 2003
http://server/contextroot/ is not invoking a filter with
url-pattern/contextroot/*/url-pattern
Erik asked:
It is context root relative, so you would not put /contextroot/* into
web.xml, you'd only put /*
Thanks Erik, I figured that out a few minutes ago. :-)
But it still leaves me with a
Noticed this serverside article on Slide. Is the Main topic for next
month still going to be Jakarta Slide? :-)
http://www.theserverside.com/articles/article.tss?l=JakartaSlide
This article delves deep into the guts of Slide's transactional storage
system. Guided by samples from real code, you
Can't recall if I'd mentioned this on this list... but I think maybe
not.
Wondering if anyone has used and/or would be interested in a JFig
mini-topic?
JFig gives developers a simple yet powerful tool to manage their
applications' configuration.
Upcoming Tucson JUG meeting --
Tuesday, April 13, 2004
6:30 - 8:30PM
Please note the new time!
6:30-7:00 will be for mingling with food and beverages!
(An RSVP would be appreciated to help plan.)
At the April meeting, Ivis Technologies will discuss how web-tier
entropy can deteriorate the
Howdy folks -
I have created a HALF-PAGE flyer, available as a PDF or Word Doc, and
posted it to the website.
Please download/print/post to havens for like-minded Java
professionals that might enjoy coming to the meeting(s). :-)
http://www.tucson-jug.org/flyer.html
Cheers,
Timo
P.S. I've
Last night we talked a little bit about the Java Desktop from Sun
which seems to be a corporate desktop alternative (i.e. Linux +
StarOffice + JVM instead of MS XP Pro)
Oddly, today I ran across a couple projects that are more of a true
java desktop -- the whole enchilda is Java.
tfug.org would be very enthusiastic about solving these
problems permanently,
lol. :-)
best buy and compusa will be able to
fix the problem in a less drastic manner.
Yikes. Their solution might be fdisk and reinstall, so it might be
almost as drastic. grin
I don't know of anyone locally
I've been playing with these today... lightweight wrapper around JDBC. I
rigged up the MapListHandler -- which returns a List of HashMaps...
which can easily be displayed in a template.
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/dbutils/examples.html
Found an article later in the day:
a consistent schedule is key to growing membership. And from
this point forward no more cancelled meetings will be my mantra ;-).
+1
As we found out in this meeting, there are folks who are not on the
mailing list, and/or would not get the cancellation notice in time and
would show up to an
Definitely! Topics of any type are welcome. I have a feeling
more of us will be getting into client-side stuff or rich
internet apps soon so this would definitely be of interest to me.
+1
Hey, didn't someone also offer a .NET preso?
Yeah, wasn't that offer from the friendly Phoenix Jug
If there's interest in C# I'd be happy to ask Andrew Lenards
about giving a presentation. He teaches CS 386, C#
Programming for the .Net Platform at the U.
+1
Timo
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Alright here's the offer (if people are interested) if we get
the c# preso I'll do a mini on mono on os x.
+1
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* Web service details: rpc/enc vs. doc/lit, WS-I Basic Profile,
howtos with JAX-RPC, Axis, JibxSoap
+1 ...with possibility to move into some of the advanced stuff.
Speaking for myself, I've played with Axis interacting with SOAP::Lite
(Perl), and I've seen somebody throw/retrieve SOAP
1) Dennis presenting on Web Services (Axis, jax-rpc, JiBX-Soap) for
roughly an hour with half an hour QA
+1
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Ok, so the next meeting will be all Dennis' ;-). Tim, let us
know when you have a new flyer for us to download.
I just finished updating the website and the flyer! :-)
Since there have been so many last minute changes, I decided to create a
flyer with just the meeting dates from now until
Hey folks -
I'm curious to try out some JMS features. Jboss AppServer apparently has a
JMS 1.1. queue, but it's a fairly large beast. OpenJMS is free, but only
supports the 1.0.2 JMS API. (http://openjms.sourceforge.net/)
Are there any small and cheap/free JMS 1.1 servers out there?
Timo
Just wondering if anyone has read this article, and if it's a worth the time
to try out the sample code?
http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=174533seqNum=2
I just skimmed -- seems to use a JBOSS AOP component... what is that based
on?
Timo
The joys of Java UI coding:
http://madbean.com/blog/2004/17/totallygridbag.html
And of course, the Inside Jack I love you man animation:
http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/media/features/insidejack1/index.html
Cheers,
Timo
-
To
Hey, I'm going to be down in the area for the September meeting. Have
you guys been exposed to SWT/JFace yet? If not, perhaps I can give a
quick demo/discussion for a short topic.
Glad to hear you'll be in town Dennis, I'd be interested in a mini on
SWT/JFace.
Similar topic -- I went
How do they actually handle the layouts, if they're not
generating code?
Voodoo. :)
It's a black box... I visually created a .form in XY space (creates an XML
file but do not edit the file), then you slap a grid on the components,
bind the form to a class, add bindings for each component,
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