Re: [jug-discussion] If you started a web project on the JVM today...

2009-05-01 Thread nlesiecki


If only I could write GWT code in Groovy then I would be in complete
Nirvana.



So, you'd want to write code in a dynamic language in the browser.  
Hmm. Some would say that's what Javascript is for. :)


(Just imagine. Groovy compiling to Java compiling to Javascript. VM  
optimization nightmare!)


Nick

On May 1, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Richard Hightower wrote:


I agree with Nick.

GAEJ/Grails/GWT

I'd want GWT on the frontend and GAEJ/Grails on the backend. I would  
use

JPA/JDO talking to GAEJ datastore on the backend which I could port to
another datastore if I needed.

This is very nascent and I have not deployed an real world app yet.  
But if I
was working on a green field app. This would be something I would  
consider.


I am working on an App that we are considering porting to GWT (it is
currently a SpringMVC/Ajax web app). I plan on writing a prototype  
graphing

package to show what is possible with GWT.

I am writing a series of articles on Google App Engine for Java for  
IBM. I
love the idea of it. GWT on the front end makes a lot of sense to  
me. I
prefer programming in Java and like the open nature of GWT (third  
party OS

components seem to abound).

The Groovy/Grails guy just added support for Grails running on GAEJ  
so if I

could put that into the mix even better.

If only I could write GWT code in Groovy then I would be in complete
Nirvana.


On 4/30/09 10:52 PM, Nick Lesiecki ndlesie...@yahoo.com wrote:


java on app engine. If I didn't want to use AppEngine, I'd still do
GWT with a GWT RPC backend on the serverside. Ajax apps with RPC to
the server is the *only* way to develop web applications.

Disclaimer, I didn't write GWT, and I have more than a few complaints
about it. But it's architecture is the future of web app development.
Period.

No comment on storage. We do things differently at Google, so I'm out
of touch with normal. We have concerns like: is it redundant in  
the

face of two simultaneous data center outages?

Nick
On Apr 30, 2009, at 4:12 PM, Warner Onstine wrote:


There are Java options for this, but why go with imitators :P?

There's FeatherDB - http://code.google.com/p/featherdb/
Project Voldemort - http://project-voldemort.com/

And I'm sure others. But I'm sticking with CouchDB as I think it  
has a

lot of strengths that the Java versions might not (Concurrency,
Distributable out of the box, etc.).

-warner

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Andrew Lenards
andrew.lena...@gmail.com wrote:

I fell victim to CouchDB's April Fools joke last year:

http://damienkatz.net/2008/04/couchdb_language_change.html

But it could have been two of three if that was true.

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Warner Onstine warn...@gmail.com
wrote:


I guess that's one out of three Java :P.

-warner

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Warner Onstine
warn...@gmail.com wrote:

Grails, with Flex and CouchDB.

-warner

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Andrew Lenards
andrew.lena...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm curious for the opinion of the list.  If you started a
project to
build
a web application today, what would you Java technology-stack  
be?








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Re: [jug-discussion] If you started a web project on the JVM today...

2009-05-01 Thread Kit Plummer
Not saying that it is a valid concern, but does anyone else have a  
Google-fear?  There's just something about so much technical-debt with  
a single provider that makes me nervous.


Surprised a bit on the GWT thing too.  I'm not a GUI developer, let  
alone a Javascript developer but it just seems like there are better  
starting points.  Having done a few things with Flex, I'm not all that  
impressed there either.  I do know that ExtJS is a PITA...and it's  
licensing quagmire doesn't help.


Off topic for sure - Anybody tracking Capuccino?

Kit

On May 1, 2009, at 1:29 PM, nlesiecki wrote:



If only I could write GWT code in Groovy then I would be in complete
Nirvana.



So, you'd want to write code in a dynamic language in the browser.  
Hmm. Some would say that's what Javascript is for. :)


(Just imagine. Groovy compiling to Java compiling to Javascript. VM  
optimization nightmare!)


Nick

On May 1, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Richard Hightower wrote:


I agree with Nick.

GAEJ/Grails/GWT

I'd want GWT on the frontend and GAEJ/Grails on the backend. I  
would use
JPA/JDO talking to GAEJ datastore on the backend which I could port  
to

another datastore if I needed.

This is very nascent and I have not deployed an real world app yet.  
But if I
was working on a green field app. This would be something I would  
consider.


I am working on an App that we are considering porting to GWT (it is
currently a SpringMVC/Ajax web app). I plan on writing a prototype  
graphing

package to show what is possible with GWT.

I am writing a series of articles on Google App Engine for Java for  
IBM. I
love the idea of it. GWT on the front end makes a lot of sense to  
me. I
prefer programming in Java and like the open nature of GWT (third  
party OS

components seem to abound).

The Groovy/Grails guy just added support for Grails running on GAEJ  
so if I

could put that into the mix even better.

If only I could write GWT code in Groovy then I would be in complete
Nirvana.


On 4/30/09 10:52 PM, Nick Lesiecki ndlesie...@yahoo.com wrote:


java on app engine. If I didn't want to use AppEngine, I'd still do
GWT with a GWT RPC backend on the serverside. Ajax apps with RPC to
the server is the *only* way to develop web applications.

Disclaimer, I didn't write GWT, and I have more than a few  
complaints
about it. But it's architecture is the future of web app  
development.

Period.

No comment on storage. We do things differently at Google, so I'm  
out
of touch with normal. We have concerns like: is it redundant in  
the

face of two simultaneous data center outages?

Nick
On Apr 30, 2009, at 4:12 PM, Warner Onstine wrote:


There are Java options for this, but why go with imitators :P?

There's FeatherDB - http://code.google.com/p/featherdb/
Project Voldemort - http://project-voldemort.com/

And I'm sure others. But I'm sticking with CouchDB as I think it  
has a

lot of strengths that the Java versions might not (Concurrency,
Distributable out of the box, etc.).

-warner

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Andrew Lenards
andrew.lena...@gmail.com wrote:

I fell victim to CouchDB's April Fools joke last year:

http://damienkatz.net/2008/04/couchdb_language_change.html

But it could have been two of three if that was true.

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Warner Onstine  
warn...@gmail.com

wrote:


I guess that's one out of three Java :P.

-warner

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Warner Onstine
warn...@gmail.com wrote:

Grails, with Flex and CouchDB.

-warner

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Andrew Lenards
andrew.lena...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm curious for the opinion of the list.  If you started a
project to
build
a web application today, what would you Java technology-stack  
be?








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Re: [jug-discussion] If you started a web project on the JVM today...

2009-05-01 Thread Kit Plummer
Ha.  Well, yeh there's that kind of fear too. :)  Outside of the  
infrastructure potential what's the benefit of slagging all  
transactions through a Google API?  Pleading ignorance here too - I  
don't know squat about GWT - so the API notion could be way off.


Don't get me wrong this is a purely hypothetical question (not  
intentionally loaded either).  I'm really leading to the question of  
whether or not to use GAEJ, or a hosting provider, or AWS, or...


Kit

BTW, Nick I noticed your at Google comment - and your email address  
and find myself slightly puzzled.


On May 1, 2009, at 1:50 PM, nlesiecki wrote:


I'm afraid of Google. Deeply afraid. :)

Feel free to spread your debt around. GWT + Grails Backend? GWT +  
Ruby on Rails Backend? (The latter is actually pretty close to what  
my team is doing right now.)


Nick

On May 1, 2009, at 1:47 PM, Kit Plummer wrote:

Not saying that it is a valid concern, but does anyone else have a  
Google-fear?  There's just something about so much technical-debt  
with a single provider that makes me nervous.


Surprised a bit on the GWT thing too.  I'm not a GUI developer, let  
alone a Javascript developer but it just seems like there are  
better starting points.  Having done a few things with Flex, I'm  
not all that impressed there either.  I do know that ExtJS is a  
PITA...and it's licensing quagmire doesn't help.


Off topic for sure - Anybody tracking Capuccino?

Kit

On May 1, 2009, at 1:29 PM, nlesiecki wrote:



If only I could write GWT code in Groovy then I would be in  
complete

Nirvana.



So, you'd want to write code in a dynamic language in the browser.  
Hmm. Some would say that's what Javascript is for. :)


(Just imagine. Groovy compiling to Java compiling to Javascript.  
VM optimization nightmare!)


Nick

On May 1, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Richard Hightower wrote:


I agree with Nick.

GAEJ/Grails/GWT

I'd want GWT on the frontend and GAEJ/Grails on the backend. I  
would use
JPA/JDO talking to GAEJ datastore on the backend which I could  
port to

another datastore if I needed.

This is very nascent and I have not deployed an real world app  
yet. But if I
was working on a green field app. This would be something I would  
consider.


I am working on an App that we are considering porting to GWT (it  
is
currently a SpringMVC/Ajax web app). I plan on writing a  
prototype graphing

package to show what is possible with GWT.

I am writing a series of articles on Google App Engine for Java  
for IBM. I
love the idea of it. GWT on the front end makes a lot of sense to  
me. I
prefer programming in Java and like the open nature of GWT (third  
party OS

components seem to abound).

The Groovy/Grails guy just added support for Grails running on  
GAEJ so if I

could put that into the mix even better.

If only I could write GWT code in Groovy then I would be in  
complete

Nirvana.


On 4/30/09 10:52 PM, Nick Lesiecki ndlesie...@yahoo.com wrote:

java on app engine. If I didn't want to use AppEngine, I'd still  
do
GWT with a GWT RPC backend on the serverside. Ajax apps with RPC  
to

the server is the *only* way to develop web applications.

Disclaimer, I didn't write GWT, and I have more than a few  
complaints
about it. But it's architecture is the future of web app  
development.

Period.

No comment on storage. We do things differently at Google, so  
I'm out
of touch with normal. We have concerns like: is it redundant  
in the

face of two simultaneous data center outages?

Nick
On Apr 30, 2009, at 4:12 PM, Warner Onstine wrote:


There are Java options for this, but why go with imitators :P?

There's FeatherDB - http://code.google.com/p/featherdb/
Project Voldemort - http://project-voldemort.com/

And I'm sure others. But I'm sticking with CouchDB as I think  
it has a

lot of strengths that the Java versions might not (Concurrency,
Distributable out of the box, etc.).

-warner

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Andrew Lenards
andrew.lena...@gmail.com wrote:

I fell victim to CouchDB's April Fools joke last year:

http://damienkatz.net/2008/04/couchdb_language_change.html

But it could have been two of three if that was true.

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Warner Onstine warn...@gmail.com 


wrote:


I guess that's one out of three Java :P.

-warner

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Warner Onstine
warn...@gmail.com wrote:

Grails, with Flex and CouchDB.

-warner

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Andrew Lenards
andrew.lena...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm curious for the opinion of the list.  If you started a
project to
build
a web application today, what would you Java technology- 
stack be?








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For 

Re: [jug-discussion] If you started a web project on the JVM today...

2009-05-01 Thread Richard Hightower
True enough


On 5/1/09 1:29 PM, Nick Lesiecki ndlesie...@yahoo.com wrote:

 
 If only I could write GWT code in Groovy then I would be in complete
 Nirvana.
 
 
 So, you'd want to write code in a dynamic language in the browser.
 Hmm. Some would say that's what Javascript is for. :)
 
 (Just imagine. Groovy compiling to Java compiling to Javascript. VM
 optimization nightmare!)
 
 Nick
 
 On May 1, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Richard Hightower wrote:
 
 I agree with Nick.
 
 GAEJ/Grails/GWT
 
 I'd want GWT on the frontend and GAEJ/Grails on the backend. I would
 use
 JPA/JDO talking to GAEJ datastore on the backend which I could port to
 another datastore if I needed.
 
 This is very nascent and I have not deployed an real world app yet.
 But if I
 was working on a green field app. This would be something I would
 consider.
 
 I am working on an App that we are considering porting to GWT (it is
 currently a SpringMVC/Ajax web app). I plan on writing a prototype
 graphing
 package to show what is possible with GWT.
 
 I am writing a series of articles on Google App Engine for Java for
 IBM. I
 love the idea of it. GWT on the front end makes a lot of sense to
 me. I
 prefer programming in Java and like the open nature of GWT (third
 party OS
 components seem to abound).
 
 The Groovy/Grails guy just added support for Grails running on GAEJ
 so if I
 could put that into the mix even better.
 
 If only I could write GWT code in Groovy then I would be in complete
 Nirvana.
 
 
 On 4/30/09 10:52 PM, Nick Lesiecki ndlesie...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 java on app engine. If I didn't want to use AppEngine, I'd still do
 GWT with a GWT RPC backend on the serverside. Ajax apps with RPC to
 the server is the *only* way to develop web applications.
 
 Disclaimer, I didn't write GWT, and I have more than a few complaints
 about it. But it's architecture is the future of web app development.
 Period.
 
 No comment on storage. We do things differently at Google, so I'm out
 of touch with normal. We have concerns like: is it redundant in
 the
 face of two simultaneous data center outages?
 
 Nick
 On Apr 30, 2009, at 4:12 PM, Warner Onstine wrote:
 
 There are Java options for this, but why go with imitators :P?
 
 There's FeatherDB - http://code.google.com/p/featherdb/
 Project Voldemort - http://project-voldemort.com/
 
 And I'm sure others. But I'm sticking with CouchDB as I think it
 has a
 lot of strengths that the Java versions might not (Concurrency,
 Distributable out of the box, etc.).
 
 -warner
 
 On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Andrew Lenards
 andrew.lena...@gmail.com wrote:
 I fell victim to CouchDB's April Fools joke last year:
 
 http://damienkatz.net/2008/04/couchdb_language_change.html
 
 But it could have been two of three if that was true.
 
 On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Warner Onstine warn...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 I guess that's one out of three Java :P.
 
 -warner
 
 On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Warner Onstine
 warn...@gmail.com wrote:
 Grails, with Flex and CouchDB.
 
 -warner
 
 On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Andrew Lenards
 andrew.lena...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm curious for the opinion of the list.  If you started a
 project to
 build
 a web application today, what would you Java technology-stack
 be?
 
 
 
 
 
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 To unsubscribe, e-mail: jug-discussion-unsubscr...@tucson-jug.org
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 jug.org
 
 
 
 
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Re: [jug-discussion] If you started a web project on the JVM today...

2009-04-30 Thread Warner Onstine
I guess that's one out of three Java :P.

-warner

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Warner Onstine warn...@gmail.com wrote:
 Grails, with Flex and CouchDB.

 -warner

 On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Andrew Lenards
 andrew.lena...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm curious for the opinion of the list.  If you started a project to build
 a web application today, what would you Java technology-stack be?





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Re: [jug-discussion] If you started a web project on the JVM today...

2009-04-30 Thread Kit Plummer
Well, sorta.  Grails is mostly non-Java, right?  Sure, you can write  
Java services, or embed Java in Groovy...


:)
On Apr 30, 2009, at 2:55 PM, Warner Onstine wrote:


I guess that's one out of three Java :P.

-warner

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Warner Onstine warn...@gmail.com  
wrote:

Grails, with Flex and CouchDB.

-warner

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Andrew Lenards
andrew.lena...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm curious for the opinion of the list.  If you started a project  
to build

a web application today, what would you Java technology-stack be?







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