Oops, forgot to reply to the list. ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Adam Collard <adam.coll...@canonical.com> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 at 13:43 Subject: Re: A (Very) Minimal Charm To: Marco Ceppi <marco.ce...@canonical.com>
On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 at 12:53 Marco Ceppi <marco.ce...@canonical.com> wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 5:00 AM Adam Collard <adam.coll...@canonical.com> wrote: On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 at 04:02 Nate Finch <nate.fi...@canonical.com> wrote: On IRC, someone was lamenting the fact that the Ubuntu charm takes longer to deploy now, because it has been updated to exercise more of Juju's features. My response was - just make a minimal charm, it's easy. And then of course, I had to figure out how minimal you can get. Here it is: It's just a directory with a metadata.yaml in it with these contents: name: min summary: nope description: nope series: - xenial (obviously you can set the series to whatever you want) No other files or directories are needed. This is neat, but doesn't detract from the bloat in the ubuntu charm. I'm happy to work though changes to the Ubuntu charm to decrease "bloat". Great! IMHO the bloat in the ubuntu charm isn't from support for Juju features, but the switch to reactive plus conflicts in layer-base wanting to a) support lots of toolchains to allow layers above it to be slimmer and b) be a suitable base for "just deploy me" ubuntu. But it is to support the reactive framework, where we utilize newer Juju features, like status and application-version to make the charm rich despite it's minimal goal set. Honestly, a handful of cached wheelhouses and some apt packages don't strike me as bloat, but I do want to make sure the Ubuntu charm works for those using it. So, What's the real problem with the Ubuntu charm today? It apt-get installs something It pip installs something Both of these take non-trivial amounts of time. How does it not achieve it's goal of providing a relatively blank Ubuntu machine? It does, but an additional goal (IMO) is to do so quickly and with minimal (zero?) network requirements. What are people using the Ubuntu charm for? Demonstrating/finding Juju bugs whilst ruling out lots of other potential sources of confusion. Other than demos, hacks/workarounds, and testing I'm not clear on the purpose of an Ubuntu charm in a model serves. Hope this sheds some light on what we were using the Ubuntu charm for. Marco
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