[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Ben Cooksley]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

Nate Graham  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|CONFIRMED   |RESOLVED
   Version Fixed In||5.14
 Resolution|--- |FIXED
  Latest Commit||https://cgit.kde.org/kwayla
   ||nd.git/commit/?id=10b00a219
   ||e9fddd57431d6bdb6550cdba6ed
   ||73bf

Patrick Silva  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||z...@live.de

--- Comment #34 from Nate Graham  ---
Fixed with
https://cgit.kde.org/kwayland.git/commit/?id=10b00a219e9fddd57431d6bdb6550cdba6ed73bf

--- Comment #35 from Scott Harvey  ---
Thanks, Nate. You beat me to the comment.

--- Comment #36 from Patrick Silva  ---
*** Bug 395425 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Scott Harvey]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #33 from Scott Harvey  ---
(In reply to Eike Hein from comment #32)
> @Scott: Find me on IRC (Sho_ in #plasma) some time if you want to work on
> this, I can give you a hand / answer more detailed questions.

Thanks, Eike. I've got it partially completed (since yesterday). The autotest
for setting the window state (kwindowsystem version) is failing on me; trying
to sort out what I've got wrong. I'll be stubborn a bit longer before bothering
you. Thanks for the assistance.

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Eike Hein]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #32 from Eike Hein  ---
@Scott: Find me on IRC (Sho_ in #plasma) some time if you want to work on this,
I can give you a hand / answer more detailed questions.

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Martin Flöser]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #31 from Martin Flöser  ---
The states are from X11, in KWayland they are all booleans. As Eike wrote: just
look how it was done for the other cases and adapt. It should be straight
forward

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Scott Harvey]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

Scott Harvey  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||bund...@gmail.com

--- Comment #30 from Scott Harvey  ---
(In reply to Eike Hein from comment #27)
> Re comment 24:
> 
> Yup, I can agree with that. I think exposing SkipSwitcher in the API makes
> sense. I also think this makes an excellent "my first kwayland/kwin patch"
> Junior Job, since it's basically just taking a look at how the other Skip*
> stuff works and doing the same. Could be a nice way to onboard a new
> contributor.

I'm always open to being onboarded, but would like to clarify a few things
before bumbling around in the KWin code.

I think I understand this correctly... `skipTaskbar` and `skipPager` are
essentially just flags (in `NET::State`) that can be set on a window. Adding
`skipSwitcher` requires adding another available flag, more or less. KWin
itself doesn't directly act on these flags, but makes them available to other
applications. In other words, KWin doesn't control what shows up in a pager or
a switcher or a taskbar - it just reports which windows are eligible, according
to which `state` flags are set. It's up to the pager/switcher/taskbar to show
only the correctly-flagged windows.

Do I understand that correctly?

I apologize if this question is elementary to any of you. The internals of a
windowing system are new to me. I'm eager to help out (as always), but I'm also
not in the habit of wasting people's time with guesswork submissions.

Thanks.

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[bugzilla_noreply]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #29 from grouchomarx...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to Eike Hein from comment #28)
> Here's the thing: It already does. Activating Present Windows doesn't make
> it lose focus.

Thanks. I've made a wrong assumption.

But then, why do the other traditional menus disappear when a switcher is
launched and the dashboard doesn't?

More importantly, why selecting a window with present windows or alt+tab
doesn't make the dashboard go away? Shouldn't that make it lose focus?

(open some apps, launch the dashboard, launch present windows with the hot
corner or launch alt+tab, select an app other than the dashboard -> the app is
selected, but the dashboard is still there)

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Eike Hein]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #28 from Eike Hein  ---
> I think that the dashboard should quit when it loses its focus. 

Here's the thing: It already does. Activating Present Windows doesn't make it
lose focus.

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Eike Hein]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #27 from Eike Hein  ---
Re comment 24:

Yup, I can agree with that. I think exposing SkipSwitcher in the API makes
sense. I also think this makes an excellent "my first kwayland/kwin patch"
Junior Job, since it's basically just taking a look at how the other Skip*
stuff works and doing the same. Could be a nice way to onboard a new
contributor.

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Martin Flöser]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #26 from Martin Flöser  ---
(In reply to grouchomarx.fr from comment #25)
> - And, if it is possible, present windows should inhibit the super key just
> like it does for alt+F1 (but I guess the super key is handled differently).

Present windows doesn't inhibit alt+F1 - that's just a long-standing bug on X11
and fixed on Wayland.

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[bugzilla_noreply]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #25 from grouchomarx...@gmail.com ---
Sorry, I didn't mean for you to lose too much time on this small issue.


Nevertheless, IMHO hiding the menu in present windows is a partial solution:
- If I open the dashboard, activate present windows and select a window, the
dashboard is still there underneath .


Just my two cents here but:
- I think that the dashboard should quit when it loses its focus. 
It seems to me that the focus stealing that the menu is trying to prevent is
introducing more issues, and the behavior is inconsistent with the other menus.

- And, if it is possible, present windows should inhibit the super key just
like it does for alt+F1 (but I guess the super key is handled differently).

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Nate Graham]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #24 from Nate Graham  ---
> If someone wants to do code on it the IMHO only solution is:
>  * add skipSwitcher to the Plasma Surface protocol
>  * use this in Plasma
>  * add it to KWin (relevant method: ShellClient::installPlasmaShellSurface)
>  * ignore X11

Eike, is that an approach we can agree on?

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Martin Flöser]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #23 from Martin Flöser  ---
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #21)
> Let's consider enabling the script by default, and if any expert users or
> KWin developers don't like it, they can turn it off, and the huge mass of
> regular users will benefit from it at least.
> 
> Turning this script on by default should be a trivial change, if we can
> agree on that.

Absolutely not! This would remove windows with skip taskbar also from Alt+Tab.
It would create way more problems than you expect. There are many, many
applications setting this state and one should be able to Alt+Tab to them. E.g.
Yakuake.

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Martin Flöser]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #22 from Martin Flöser  ---
If someone wants to do code on it the IMHO only solution is:
 * add skipSwitcher to the Plasma Surface protocol
 * use this in Plasma
 * add it to KWin (relevant method: ShellClient::installPlasmaShellSurface)
 * ignore X11

I'm strictly against just mapping skipPager to skipSwitcher. There's a reason
why we introduced it in KWin.

It is not a huge issue. SkipSwitcher was introduce in 2011 and since then
nobody cared about adding it to the X11 API. This means it's not as much a deal
as it looks like in the last few comments. Now it's of course too late to add
it to X11, KWin is feature frozen.

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Nate Graham]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #21 from Nate Graham  ---
Ah, so it does! That's nice. I can confirm that it works for me on Plasma
5.12.2

However, the power of good defaults is that they're, well, default. :) The set
of users who understand this matter well enough to know that this script exists
and should be enabled is probably equal to the KWin developers. :)

Let's consider enabling the script by default, and if any expert users or KWin
developers don't like it, they can turn it off, and the huge mass of regular
users will benefit from it at least.

Turning this script on by default should be a trivial change, if we can agree
on that.

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Martin Flöser]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #20 from Martin Flöser  ---
For the record: KWin ships a script which synchronizes skip taskbar to skip
switcher. Any user can just enable this.

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Martin Flöser]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #19 from Martin Flöser  ---
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #18)
> > My preferred option is still for KWin to start ignoring windows that have 
> > SkipPager set in Present Windows (because my argument remains that any 
> > summarized view of windows is conceptually a pager).
> 
> Makes sense to me. Do the KWin maintainers feel otherwise?

Yes

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Nate Graham]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

Nate Graham  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||subd...@gmail.com

--- Comment #18 from Nate Graham  ---
> My preferred option is still for KWin to start ignoring windows that have 
> SkipPager set in Present Windows (because my argument remains that any 
> summarized view of windows is conceptually a pager).

Makes sense to me. Do the KWin maintainers feel otherwise?

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Eike Hein]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #17 from Eike Hein  ---
My preferred option is still for KWin to start ignoring windows that have
SkipPager set in Present Windows (because my argument remains that any
summarized view of windows is conceptually a pager).

In lieu of that, we need a new SkipSwitcher state in the KWindowSystem API (for
X11) as well as in the PlasmaWindowManagement protocol (for Wayland).

IMHO the rule-based approach is a hack.

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Nate Graham]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #16 from Nate Graham  ---
OK, so then it seems we have four options:
- KWin exposes something for launchers to signal that they don't want to be
displayed in the effect
- We ship KWin with a default skipSwitcher rule for launchers
- KWin does nothing, and it's up to distros to ship with the rule (and we
continue to get bug reports from users of other distros)
- Nothing happens, and we continue to get bug reports

Is that correct?

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Eike Hein]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

--- Comment #15 from Eike Hein  ---
It doesn't currently exist in the way that matters from the launcher side:

https://api.kde.org/frameworks/kwindowsystem/html/classKWindowSystem.html#a2fcec2ab4297afe9edae7971b1a4cd86

https://api.kde.org/frameworks/kwindowsystem/html/classNET.html#a08dce7f5ea8a2a6d1d38aea3498f00ee

If it was a simple as that I'd have done it long ago.

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[plasmashell] [Bug 375921] present windows shows launchers (Kicker, Kickoff, Application Dashboard, SimpleMenu, etc)

[Nate Graham]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375921

Nate Graham  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|present windows shows the   |present windows shows
   |Application Dashboard   |launchers (Kicker, Kickoff,
   |fullscreen window   |Application Dashboard,
   ||SimpleMenu, etc)
 CC||n...@kde.org
 Ever confirmed|0   |1
 Status|UNCONFIRMED |CONFIRMED

--- Comment #14 from Nate Graham  ---
We have multiple bug reports about this issue, and it's not intended or useful
behavior from a user perspective (not a developer perspective); in short, it's
a bug. The question is how we resolve it.

skipSwitcher does in fact exist, and is visible in System Settings > Window
Management > Window Behavior > [new rule] > Arrangement & Access.

Setting a rule and targeting my launcher works like a charm: no more launcher
in the Present Windows effect. So fixing this bug is possible; the question is
just whose responsibility it is do do it: should (could?) launchers signal that
they want to be skipped, or do we need a built-in KWin rule?

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