Re: Discourse

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Mon, 26 Nov 2018 10:23:42 +0200
Ilmari Lauhakangas
 ha scritto:

> step to recruit someone to upgrade the existing forum to the latest
> version of phpBB (which has evolved during all this time after all)?

The main pain problem because it's not a "one click" update is mainly
because the forum has quite a bit of custom code:

- So called "mods" that would need to get replaced (older phpBB mods
  replaced files directly, but now there's a plugin structure)
- A whole swath of in house code, like Brainstorm etc. (in hindsight,
  doing that much extra stuff on top wasn't the best idea, but again
  hindsight is 20/20). 
- The theme (which would need an overhaul anyway)

So upgrading is the "easy" step. Upgrading without too much breakage is
far harder.

> The main problem in any case will be getting enough engagement. I
> don't think I have ever received a reply from a KDE developer in the
> current forums.

In the past, it happened more than once. Aside very vibrant forums like
Krita's, I've personally poked people to answer in the forums (and they
did).

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
GPG key ID: A29D259B


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Re: Discourse

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Tue, 27 Nov 2018 14:25:06 -0200
Lays Rodrigues  ha scritto:

> As a ~new person~ on KDE, 3 years only, we need to move to a modern
> web. At least in my point of view, I really think that using old

Then someone needs to do it: as you are well aware, that's how most of
the stuff in KDE is born. And I do not only mean the actual setup +
deployment, but have someone willing to "commit" to it (quotes because
even the forum was relatively low maintenance when we still had people
working on it - if it's continuous, the burden is not so heavy).

> community forward. If we have old stuff that is hard to maintain, and
> it is outdated, we should move forward.

Replacing one solution (unmaintained) with another than then it's
forgotten because "it works" would not be an improvement. IOW, it would
make little sense to update to $new_platform if then there's no one
maintaining it. 

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
GPG key ID: A29D259B


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Re: Discourse

[Boudewijn Rempt]

On dinsdag 27 november 2018 17:30:13 CET Martin Flöser wrote:

> I don't want to tell developers to not do user support. If they want to
> do that, it's fine. But currently our infrastructure forces it on us.
> And that's a problem and won't scale in the long run.

Let's see how the ask.krita.org experiment works out. I intend to not add 
answers myself for a couple of weeks to see what happens...

-- 
https://www.krita.org

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Re: Discourse

[Ilmari Lauhakangas]

Lays Rodrigues kirjoitti 27.11.2018 klo 18.25:

Let's not go in that way.
As a ~new person~ on KDE, 3 years only, we need to move to a modern web. 
At least in my point of view, I really think that using old stuff 
doesn't attract new people. In that I have a few ideas for some KDE 
websites go modern, but that is a project for the future.
Discourse is a way to do that. I don't have much idea on how is the cost 
to maintain such an application, but in the field to setup it, I don't

think that is hard since we just need docker and Postgres.

So Ben and other sysadmins,
Ben, you had some concerns that others answered on this thread.
What do you think?

Also, I found this ansible to deploy discourse with and without docker, 
that can be a starting point:

https://github.com/jamielinux/ansible-discourse

Let's think about how this can help all the KDE users, and push our 
community forward. If we have old stuff that is hard to maintain, and it 
is outdated, we should move forward.


The old stuff is not hard to maintain. Everything is hard to maintain, 
if you lack maintainers.


The Ansible setup you linked to is from 2015, but this is fresh: 
https://github.com/xpeppers/ansible-discourse


Ilmari

Re: Discourse

[Martin Flöser]

Am 2018-11-26 22:04, schrieb Ingo Klöcker:

On Montag, 26. November 2018 18:03:55 CET Martin Flöser wrote:

Am 2018-11-26 09:23, schrieb Ilmari Lauhakangas:
> The main problem in any case will be getting enough engagement. I
> don't think I have ever received a reply from a KDE developer in the
> current forums.

And that's good! Do you want that developers spend time answering 
simple
support questions any other user could answer or do you want 
developers

to code? No company would put their expensive developers on the front
line for support.


No company would publish their precious IP (aka source code) as Free 
Software.
Luckily, KDE is not a company but a community of people where 
everybody, even
the most precious developers, can be at the front line for support if 
they

want to be there.


Of course that is not what I meant. Currently we have the problem that 
user support is completely handled by over qualified developers. Just 
check bugs.kde.org in the product KWin. It's me, David and Vlad doing 
the user support. That is such a waste of resources. If we wouldn't do 
it, nobody would do it.


I don't want to tell developers to not do user support. If they want to 
do that, it's fine. But currently our infrastructure forces it on us. 
And that's a problem and won't scale in the long run.


Cheers
Martin

Re: Discourse

[Lays Rodrigues]

Let's not go in that way.
As a ~new person~ on KDE, 3 years only, we need to move to a modern web. At
least in my point of view, I really think that using old stuff doesn't
attract new people. In that I have a few ideas for some KDE websites go
modern, but that is a project for the future.
Discourse is a way to do that. I don't have much idea on how is the cost to
maintain such an application, but in the field to setup it, I don't
think that is hard since we just need docker and Postgres.

So Ben and other sysadmins,
Ben, you had some concerns that others answered on this thread.
What do you think?

Also, I found this ansible to deploy discourse with and without docker,
that can be a starting point:
https://github.com/jamielinux/ansible-discourse

Let's think about how this can help all the KDE users, and push our
community forward. If we have old stuff that is hard to maintain, and it is
outdated, we should move forward.

** My opinions can be *simple*, because I think that the *situation* is
simple, also because I may not have a *macro* view of everything**


Cheers,



On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 7:04 PM Ingo Klöcker  wrote:

> On Montag, 26. November 2018 18:03:55 CET Martin Flöser wrote:
> > Am 2018-11-26 09:23, schrieb Ilmari Lauhakangas:
> > > The main problem in any case will be getting enough engagement. I
> > > don't think I have ever received a reply from a KDE developer in the
> > > current forums.
> >
> > And that's good! Do you want that developers spend time answering simple
> > support questions any other user could answer or do you want developers
> > to code? No company would put their expensive developers on the front
> > line for support.
>
> No company would publish their precious IP (aka source code) as Free
> Software.
> Luckily, KDE is not a company but a community of people where everybody,
> even
> the most precious developers, can be at the front line for support if they
> want to be there.
>
> Regards,
> Ingo
>


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