Re: Bugzilla template problems
On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:01 AM Nate Graham wrote: > > From the perspective of someone who triages non-Krita bugs, I would say that > the template has been a big success. My observations (again, for non-Krita > bugs) are as follows: > > 1. Technically adept users are now filing better bugs, because they are > faithfully filling out the template with useful information. > > 2. Users with moderate technical and reading comprehension skills are filing > better bugs, because the template is guiding them through the process in a > way that's helpful. > > 3. Users with low technical or reading comprehension skills are still filing > un-actionable bugs, because they are ignoring the template (e.g. > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=400150). But they were already filing > useless bugs before; the bugs are just useless in a different way now. > > I understand that this has not been the experience for Krita's bug triagers > because parts of the template assumes Plasma, and perhaps Krita has a > larger-than-average percentage of users who fall under category 3. What this > really suggests to me is that we need per-product templates. If one size does > not fit all, let's try to make it flexible. This could be a huge win for > well-triaged products like Krita since you guys usually know exactly what > information you want to ask bug submitter, and you can tweak your > Krita-specific template until you find that it substantially improves the > situation handling bugs from group #3. It'll also be a massive maintainability issue. Given that quite a bit of the pain at the moment seems to be Platform specific variations, could we try splitting it by Windows / MacOS / Linux before following the path of wanting to partition it per product? (Determining whether they're Plasma, GNOME or something else users might be a bit difficult, but those users should hopefully be aware of the different desktop environments) > > Nate Cheers, Ben > > > > On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:49:53 -0600 Boudewijn Rempt > wrote > > On maandag 8 oktober 2018 21:10:44 CEST Andrew Crouthamel wrote: > > > > > > If someone doesn't want to fill out everything, they don't have to. I've > > > seen plenty of people deleting some of the template or not filling out > some > > > fields. > > > > > > > There's another problem: the template assumes people are using Plasma. > > > > SOFTWARE VERSIONS > > (available in About System) > > KDE Plasma Version: > > KDE Frameworks Version: > > Qt Version: > > > > Over half of bug reports for Krita at least are not even from Linux users, > and > > many Linux users don't use plasma. Without more explanation (like, If you > use > > the KDE Plasma desktop, please...), this part just confuses people like > heck. > > Here's where Krita's bug reports came from in the past 12 months: > > > > Windows: 683 > > linux: 646 > > macOS: 132 > > > > -- > > https://www.valdyas.org | https://www.krita.org > > > > > > > >
Re: Bugzilla template problems
On dinsdag 23 oktober 2018 23:01:21 CEST Nate Graham wrote: > I understand that this has not been the experience for Krita's bug triagers > because parts of the template assumes Plasma, and perhaps Krita has a > larger-than-average percentage of users who fall under category 3. What > this really suggests to me is that we need per-product templates. If one > size does not fit all, let's try to make it flexible. This could be a huge > win for well-triaged products like Krita since you guys usually know > exactly what information you want to ask bug submitter, and you can tweak > your Krita-specific template until you find that it substantially improves > the situation handling bugs from group #3. Yes, that would be the only solution: the current solution basically assumes everyone is using the Plasma desktop, and that's just not true. If we cannot have per-product templates, then the template should be much more explicit about which parts are relevant in which situation. You can be as computer literate as possible, but if you're using Windows, instructions to look up the KDE plasma (what is plasma? it doesn't even add 'desktop') version using the "About System" (how to access that?) just don't make any sense. And that's already over half of Krita's bug reporters. And of course, we've got lots of illiterate bug reporters as well, and I'm working on a mail to start a discussion on how we should have to deal with those, but until we've got something else than bugzilla for people to report problems, we need something that helps the illiterate, instead of making them do useless work. That's a waste of time for the reporter and for the maintainer. -- https://www.valdyas.org | https://www.krita.org
Re: Bugzilla template problems
>From the perspective of someone who triages non-Krita bugs, I would say that >the template has been a big success. My observations (again, for non-Krita >bugs) are as follows: 1. Technically adept users are now filing better bugs, because they are faithfully filling out the template with useful information. 2. Users with moderate technical and reading comprehension skills are filing better bugs, because the template is guiding them through the process in a way that's helpful. 3. Users with low technical or reading comprehension skills are still filing un-actionable bugs, because they are ignoring the template (e.g. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=400150). But they were already filing useless bugs before; the bugs are just useless in a different way now. I understand that this has not been the experience for Krita's bug triagers because parts of the template assumes Plasma, and perhaps Krita has a larger-than-average percentage of users who fall under category 3. What this really suggests to me is that we need per-product templates. If one size does not fit all, let's try to make it flexible. This could be a huge win for well-triaged products like Krita since you guys usually know exactly what information you want to ask bug submitter, and you can tweak your Krita-specific template until you find that it substantially improves the situation handling bugs from group #3. Nate On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:49:53 -0600 Boudewijn Rempt wrote > On maandag 8 oktober 2018 21:10:44 CEST Andrew Crouthamel wrote: > > > > If someone doesn't want to fill out everything, they don't have to. I've > > seen plenty of people deleting some of the template or not filling out > > some > > fields. > > > > There's another problem: the template assumes people are using Plasma. > > SOFTWARE VERSIONS > (available in About System) > KDE Plasma Version: > KDE Frameworks Version: > Qt Version: > > Over half of bug reports for Krita at least are not even from Linux users, > and > many Linux users don't use plasma. Without more explanation (like, If you > use > the KDE Plasma desktop, please...), this part just confuses people like > heck. > Here's where Krita's bug reports came from in the past 12 months: > > Windows: 683 > linux: 646 > macOS: 132 > > -- > https://www.valdyas.org | https://www.krita.org > > >
Re: Bugzilla template problems
On maandag 8 oktober 2018 21:10:44 CEST Andrew Crouthamel wrote: > > If someone doesn't want to fill out everything, they don't have to. I've > seen plenty of people deleting some of the template or not filling out some > fields. > There's another problem: the template assumes people are using Plasma. SOFTWARE VERSIONS (available in About System) KDE Plasma Version: KDE Frameworks Version: Qt Version: Over half of bug reports for Krita at least are not even from Linux users, and many Linux users don't use plasma. Without more explanation (like, If you use the KDE Plasma desktop, please...), this part just confuses people like heck. Here's where Krita's bug reports came from in the past 12 months: Windows: 683 linux: 646 macOS: 132 -- https://www.valdyas.org | https://www.krita.org
Re: Bugzilla template problems
On maandag 8 oktober 2018 21:10:44 CEST Andrew Crouthamel wrote: > > We had this previously, where the details were added in without any template > and the bug reports were very lacking, always requiring follow-up work. The > current template is at least producing bugs with higher quality > information. Um, I'm not convinced of that. Since we've gotten the new template, I'm getting quite a few bugs like https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=400218 -- though I cannot imagine how the system info got into the subject, it's only one of the bugs I've seen recently where the summary isn't filled in at all. -- https://www.valdyas.org | https://www.krita.org
