Re: What can we expect from our developers

[Jonathan Riddell]

My opinion is that KDE project maintainers should aspire to get the
projects into the hands of users in a way which makes it a useful tool for
the user.  That means ensuring the projects are packaged and distributed
and updated.  That's a big ask of course especially from volunteers but it
would be the same of self hosted open source projects on Github or
commercial proprietary projects, the difference is we have a community
process where if you aren't sure how to achieve something there is probably
other people who can help out.  When I first took over Umbrello 20 years
ago I was surprised that as well as learning C++ and Qt I'd also need to
know some artwork and how to make it translatable and follow UI design.
Actually making it available to users through app stores is another ask for
sure but it's why I'd like that integrated into processes like the KDE Gear
release service so projects can offload some of the work.  There seems to
be minimal interest in this though which I worry keeps KDE projects back.

Jonathan

Re: Plasma 6 new logo poll

[Jonathan Riddell]

To add some positivity I think Plasma 6.0 release is a great time for a
logo refresh and this is a good way to do it.  It would be normal to
discuss this with the Plasma team ahead of time but we're still 2.5 months
ahead of 6.0 release so we have time yet, Plasma meetings are on Monday EU
afternoons in the #plasma channel, do come along to discuss.

Jonathan

Re: [discussion] archiving and retiring the Dot

[Jonathan Riddell]

I'm not against retiring it.  It used to be cool and must-read and we had
several articles a week but once social media came along and comments
became more spam filled it stopped being so interesting and it's now a
shadow of its former self.

I think it just needs identified what uses still exist for it and can they
move to e.g. the new blogs.kde.org that Harald has proposed.

I think the purpose of https://kde.org/announcements/ should be clarified
too, it's almost all release announcements which is great but can software
be announced on it outwith plasma/gear/frameworks and can other
announcements go there?  I suspect it's best to keep it to just the three
big product announcements.

Jonathan

Re: Proposal for using gitlab for kdereview process

[Jonathan Riddell]

I've gone ahead an updated the Sanity checklist and updated the kde review
policy to ask people to make an Issue on gitlab labelled "KDE Review
Request"

https://community.kde.org/Policies/Application_Lifecycle#kdereview

So you can now find kdereview requests at
https://invent.kde.org/dashboard/issues?sort=created_date=opened_name[]=KDE+Review+Request

Which is linked from
https://community.kde.org/Policies/Application_Lifecycle#kdereview

I'll open Issues for outstanding kdereview projects.

Jonathan



On Mon, 19 Jun 2023 at 19:55, Jonathan Riddell  wrote:

> Seems using issues is more intuitive so I'll ask for a global group label
> for issues and update the process docs for kdereview and incubator.
>
> Incubator suggestion is here
> https://discuss.kde.org/t/proposal-kde-invent-based-incubator-process/
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> On Wed, 1 Mar 2023 at 08:27, David Redondo  wrote:
>
>> So there are two new kdereview requests using gitlab issues now instead
>> of my
>> more complicated idea of merge requests. I imagined a MR to have
>> advantages
>> for codereview but an issue seems to be less complicated (no need to have
>> an
>> empty orphan branch, etc..), so maybe we should go with that.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>

KDE Incubator on invent.kde.org

[Jonathan Riddell]

I've gone over the current KDE incubation process with a view to move
tracking onto invent.kde.org issues.

I've edited the incubation page now to say to use an issue on invent.kde.org
and I've tidied up the old projects so there's now only 1 outstanding
incubtation in progress (kstopmotion).

https://community.kde.org/Incubator

https://invent.kde.org/dashboard/issues?sort=created_date=opened_name[]=Incubation+Request

I'll do something similar with KDE Review next following suggestions in
Febuary for it.

Jonathan

Re: discuss announce forum forward to kde-announce list

[Jonathan Riddell]

I don't think it matters, whichever is easier to implement.  As Discuss can
be used as a mailing list it would be easiest to just tell people to
register and subscribe to the Discuss forum, but I suspect that won't be
universally approved.

Jonathan


On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 at 15:41, Kenny Duffus  wrote:

> On Wednesday, 21 June 2023 15:33:34 BST Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> > Can we set up the Discuss announce forum to forward to the kde-announce
> > mailing list?
> >
> > https://discuss.kde.org/c/announcement/9
> >
> > https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-announce/
> >
> > Currently we have to post twice and that often doesn't happen
> >
>
> Doing it mailing list to forum sounds better?
>
> --
>
> Kenny (he/him)
>
>
>

discuss announce forum forward to kde-announce list

[Jonathan Riddell]

Can we set up the Discuss announce forum to forward to the kde-announce
mailing list?

https://discuss.kde.org/c/announcement/9

https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-announce/

Currently we have to post twice and that often doesn't happen

Jonathan

Re: planet forwarding to discuss?

[Jonathan Riddell]

I'm all for this, it would make our writing more accessible to everyone.
The downside is splitting where discussion happens but it's not a big ask
to expect KDE devs to visit Discuss at times.

Jonathan


On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 at 11:55, Harald Sitter  wrote:

> may be of interest
>
> https://discuss.kde.org/t/post-planet-kde-org-blogs-on-discuss-automatically/2287/1
>

Re: Proposal for using gitlab for kdereview process

[Jonathan Riddell]

Seems using issues is more intuitive so I'll ask for a global group label
for issues and update the process docs for kdereview and incubator.

Incubator suggestion is here
https://discuss.kde.org/t/proposal-kde-invent-based-incubator-process/

Jonathan


On Wed, 1 Mar 2023 at 08:27, David Redondo  wrote:

> So there are two new kdereview requests using gitlab issues now instead of
> my
> more complicated idea of merge requests. I imagined a MR to have
> advantages
> for codereview but an issue seems to be less complicated (no need to have
> an
> empty orphan branch, etc..), so maybe we should go with that.
>
> David
>
>
>

Re: BSD 3 Clause?

[Jonathan Riddell]

>
> Now does this mean that BSD-3-Clause may be used instead of BSD-2-Clause
> for CMake code or that it must not be used? Can we clarify the wiki page?
>

3 clause just adds "Neither the name of the copyright holder nor the names
of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from
this software without specific prior written permission.".  It's fine to
use in KDE software but I'd advise against it as it just adds an additional
restriction that needs cared about which isn't of much benefit.

If you'd like to add a clarification to the licence policy do propose
amendments here or at
https://community.kde.org/Policies/Licensing_Policy/Draft

Jonathan

State of Open Con Fed 7-8 London

[Jonathan Riddell]

We've been offered a free stall at the State of Open Con in London on Feb
7-8 2023.

https://stateofopencon.com/

Is anyone interested in helping out with it?

Jonathan

Re: Extending the license policy to include Apache-2.0

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Wed, 22 Sept 2021 at 13:40, Luigi Toscano 
wrote:

> Jonathan Riddell ha scritto:
> > I don't think it needs to be restricted to infrastructural tooling,
> maybe just
> > a line somewhere saying Apache 2 is an option if needed for code sharing
> > compatibility with third party projects.
>
> That still prevents the usage of Apache 2.0 from scratch, as someone could
> always say you can use MIT for a new project which uses Apache 2.0.
>


Right, I don't think we should allow Apache 2 for new projects unless it's
needed to help with an external 3rd party project, that reduces the ability
or ease of doing code sharing within KDE and doesn't seem to benefit in any
way.

Jonathan

Re: Extending the license policy to include Apache-2.0

[Jonathan Riddell]

I don't think it needs to be restricted to infrastructural tooling, maybe
just a line somewhere saying Apache 2 is an option if needed for code
sharing compatibility with third party projects.

Jonathan

Re: Extending the license policy to include Apache-2.0

[Jonathan Riddell]

I think I'd be against adding it to the policy, the aim of the policy has
always been to keep it simple which licence to use so ensure code and be
swapped around within and outwith KDE with minimal worry about different
licences.  Apache 2 doesn't add any useful use case to our licences that
isn't already covered by another one, it's just a bit more explicit about
the intended uses.

There's no problem with linking to Apache 2 code such as openssl.  When
Apache 2 licenced code is included in KDE because of policies used by other
projects that share the code such as aether-ssas or mycroft that shouldn't
be a problem, we can just note the reason why it's used and make clear the
different licence.

Jonathan

Re: Chat blocking under 16s from KDE

[Jonathan Riddell]

The no-under-16s limitation remains in place on the privacy policy

https://webchat.kde.org/privacy_policy/en/privacy_notice.html

"We never knowingly collect or maintain information in the Service from
those we know are under 16, and no part of the Service is structured to
attract anyone under 16. If you are under 16, please do not use the
Service."

I'd also query if should allow hugging by text, it does seem excessive to
prevent it.
"Physical contact and simulated physical contact (eg, textual descriptions
like "*hug*" or "*backrub*") without consent or after a request to stop"
https://webchat.kde.org/privacy_policy/en/code_of_conduct.html

Jonathan


On Fri, 6 Aug 2021 at 17:27, Adriaan de Groot  wrote:

> On Friday, 6 August 2021 17:05:46 CEST Kenny Duffus wrote:
> > On Monday, 2 August 2021 10:58:20 BST Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> > > I've been notified by a 13 year old who wants to help KDE that he is
> > > unable
> > > to log into our chat setup on Matrix because the privacy policy blocks
> > > anyone under 16.
> >
> > This message is planned to be removed from our home-server next week by
> EMS
>
> (Where EMS = Element Matrix Support, the organization hosting and
> supporting
> KDE's Matrix instances; not Emergency Medical Services, or Extra Mature
> Spinach, or any of a dozen other things those letters might mean)
>
> Thank you, Kenny and Jon, for chasing that through (also for all our
> future
> young contributors).
>
> [ade]
>

Re: Chat blocking under 16s from KDE

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 at 11:09, Christian  wrote:

> > If KDE is restricting who can take part in our activities, against our
> > historical practice, without prior discussion and solely because we are
> > reliant on a third party service we should move to a different service.
>


> As far as the "move to a different service" goes: please not again. Also
> this
> age restriction is due to local laws (e.g. COPPA) and will most likely
> affect
> every commercial third party service we use, so unless we want to start
> self-
> host or use something existing that isn't affected (which is a bit
> limited)
> I doubt there are many options left. Mostly because these services, for
> user
> convenience, do have to store data, including chat log, which makes them
> subject to these laws.
>
>
COPPA seems to be for children under 13 so I doubt that's relevant here
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=4939e77c77a1a1a08c1cbf905fc4b409=16%3A1.0.1.3.36=div5

The GDPR tends to require children under 16 to get parental consent before
signing up to things, but that is the same for all our services there's no
reason why this should be different.

Saying some people need to stay off a KDE service seems like an arbitrary
limitation that will restrict who can be welcomed into our community.

Jonathan

Chat blocking under 16s from KDE

[Jonathan Riddell]

I've been notified by a 13 year old who wants to help KDE that he is unable
to log into our chat setup on Matrix because the privacy policy blocks
anyone under 16.

https://kde.modular.im/_matrix/consent?v=1.0
"You must be at least 16 years old to use this Service (webchat.kde.org) "

https://webchat.kde.org/privacy_policy/en/privacy_notice.html
"We never knowingly collect or maintain information in the Service from
those we know are under 16, and no part of the Service is structured to
attract anyone under 16. If you are under 16, please do not use the
Service."

This is contrary to
https://webchat.kde.org/privacy_policy/en/code_of_conduct.html
"Although this list cannot be exhaustive, we explicitly honour diversity in
age"

If KDE is restricting who can take part in our activities, against our
historical practice, without prior discussion and solely because we are
reliant on a third party service we should move to a different service.

Jonathan

Re: MyGNUHealth Personal Health Record 1.0 released!

[Jonathan Riddell]

Well done on getting a novel new KDE app released!

I've packaged it and put it into KDE neon.  I've also headlined the Summer
Apps Update article on dot.kde.org news today with it.

Are there release tars available?  I see nothing on download.kde.org and
had to use the git tag in invent.

One issue I struggled with was an old python-tinydb version 3 in Ubuntu
when this needs version 4 but there's no check for that anywhere so it just
crashes.

Is there a bug tracker for this?  One bug right at the start is the user is
limited to binary choice for their sex when medically and personally this
is very limiting and it would be important to allow users a more complete
option so as not to discriminate.

Jonathan



On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 at 21:53, Luis Falcon  wrote:

> Dear all
>
> I am proud to announce the first stable release of MyGNUHealth, the GNU
> Health Personal Health Record for desktop and mobile devices.
>
> From now on, everyone of us will benefit from a Libre Personal Health
> application that respects our privacy, both from our desktops and from
> our libre phones (such as the PinePhone). MyGNUHealth is more than a
> health and activity tracker, since it incorporates state-of-the-art
> technology and resources from medicine, genomics and
> bioinformatics. Thanks to the integration with the GNU Federation, we
> can communicate and share the information we wish with our health
> professionals in real-time.
>
> You can read the announcement with screenshots from here, as well as
> from GNU.org planet and soon from KDE.org planet.
>
>
> https://meanmicio.org/2021/06/24/welcome-to-mygnuhealth-the-libre-personal-health-record/
>
> Immense gratitude to all of you who, directly or indirectly, have made
> it possible.
>
> Let's keep on fighting for freedom, equity and privacy in healthcare
> around the world!
>
> Happy and healthy hacking
>
> --
> Dr. Luis Falcon, MD, MSc
> President, GNU Solidario
> Advancing Social Medicine
> www.gnuhealth.org
>

Re: All About the Apps Goal

[Jonathan Riddell]

Various responses to this all of which would form interesting discussion
points but the common theme seems to be that this isn't wanted or at least
not in the way that I'm organising it.  So I'll withdraw the proposal and
unless anyone wants to take over close the Goal.

Jonathan


On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 at 10:58, Jonathan Riddell  wrote:

> KDE's All About the Apps Goal hopes to use modern methods of getting our
> apps to users.  I seem not to have been clear about what I mean by that so
> time to check in and ask again.  These days apps (and websites and any
> software) gets developed by developers who are empowered to deploy them all
> the way to the user through suitable QA.  In the apps of KDE apps that
> means using app stores (flathub, snap store, appimagehub, microsoft store,
> fdroid, google play etc) and integrating the packaging for those stores
> into the apps repos themselves and our release tools.
>
> This is a massive change of culture compared to what KDE has largely done
> until now where the packaging and deployment have been separated into often
> entirely separated organisations.  That does not seem to have served us
> well, our software has not taken over the world except by other
> orgaisations who have followed these practices, such as KHTML's derivative
> now being used by Microsoft Edge. It's not a setup done anywhere outside
> the Linux distros and KDE has long aspired to move beyond just Linux
> distros.
>
> Our most successful apps have long gone ahead and done this, Krita is now
> available on the Epic Games store.  It seems strange to me not to want to
> emulate that success.  Moving packaging into app repos makes it smoother
>
> Recently I made a minimum viable patch for the KDE Gear release tooling to
> bump up the version numbers where those apps have snapcraft packaging
> files.  However I've been told I shouldn't "overstate the nature of the
> goal" with an objection to integrating the packaging into the app
> repositories.
>
>
> https://invent.kde.org/sysadmin/release-tools/-/merge_requests/15#note_205935
>
> I've little interest in putting lots of apps into app stores without this
> change of culture where app developers take some responsibility for the end
> result.  It would likely end up with unmaintained apps.
>
> So would KDE developers prefer the status quo where our packaging is
> deliberately separated from our app development?  Or can we start with
> moving, where appropriate for the teams doing the work, to move packaging
> into the app repos and link the apps with the users?
>
> Jonathan
>
>

All About the Apps Goal

[Jonathan Riddell]

KDE's All About the Apps Goal hopes to use modern methods of getting our
apps to users.  I seem not to have been clear about what I mean by that so
time to check in and ask again.  These days apps (and websites and any
software) gets developed by developers who are empowered to deploy them all
the way to the user through suitable QA.  In the apps of KDE apps that
means using app stores (flathub, snap store, appimagehub, microsoft store,
fdroid, google play etc) and integrating the packaging for those stores
into the apps repos themselves and our release tools.

This is a massive change of culture compared to what KDE has largely done
until now where the packaging and deployment have been separated into often
entirely separated organisations.  That does not seem to have served us
well, our software has not taken over the world except by other
orgaisations who have followed these practices, such as KHTML's derivative
now being used by Microsoft Edge. It's not a setup done anywhere outside
the Linux distros and KDE has long aspired to move beyond just Linux
distros.

Our most successful apps have long gone ahead and done this, Krita is now
available on the Epic Games store.  It seems strange to me not to want to
emulate that success.  Moving packaging into app repos makes it smoother

Recently I made a minimum viable patch for the KDE Gear release tooling to
bump up the version numbers where those apps have snapcraft packaging
files.  However I've been told I shouldn't "overstate the nature of the
goal" with an objection to integrating the packaging into the app
repositories.

https://invent.kde.org/sysadmin/release-tools/-/merge_requests/15#note_205935

I've little interest in putting lots of apps into app stores without this
change of culture where app developers take some responsibility for the end
result.  It would likely end up with unmaintained apps.

So would KDE developers prefer the status quo where our packaging is
deliberately separated from our app development?  Or can we start with
moving, where appropriate for the teams doing the work, to move packaging
into the app repos and link the apps with the users?

Jonathan

Rebranding the release service

[Jonathan Riddell]

Here at KDE we've always struggled a bit with branding and the announcement
of formats for the bunch of releases that was originally "KDE" then "KDE
SC" then "KDE Applications" and at Akademy 2019 we decided to debrand it
and make it a release service with lots of different stuff in it.  We had
monthly update announcements that included those releases on the months
when they happened and otherwise included everything else released over the
past month.  But the format doesn't seem to have caught on by various
metrics.  So the promo group had some chat about different formats you can
read at https://phabricator.kde.org/T14091

Currently the plan is to reband it probably with the name KDE Gear.   That
gets released every 4 months (same as currently) with a big announcement
for it and everything in it.  It's still a collection of apps and
supporting libraries with no connection to each other except they happen to
be KDE projects which don't want to do their own release work.  Then every
4 months on the months between times we have an update article highlighting
all the other stuff that has been released by KDE.  The bugfix releases for
KDE Gear happen monthly as currently and only have a minimal announcement.

We hope this format will get some more traction with engagement from
outside press and social media buzz.  Any comments welcome.

Jonathan

20.12 releases

[Jonathan Riddell]

If you have an app which will be released as part of the 20.12 bundle from
the release service please list new feature on this wiki page so we can
write them up in the announcement

https://invent.kde.org/websites/kde-org/-/wikis/20.12-Releases

Tagging is due on Dec 3rd for release on Thu Dec 10th.  I'll be wanting to
write up the announce by Thu Dec 3rd.

Jonathan

FOSDEM 2021

[Jonathan Riddell]

FOSDEM 2021 will be online, it would be good to have some KDE talks there

https://fosdem.org/2021/news/2020-09-01-dates-fosdem-2021/

Jonathan

Re: KDE Apps name trademarks

[Jonathan Riddell]

That being said, to answer your actual question, I would treat this in
several elements:

>
>1. Do we want to trademark the names of more KDE products (I say
>"more" since "KDE" is already trademarked, so arguably at least one product
>is already trademarked). I personally have no strong opinion, but I agree
>that trademarking can discourage modification. There are ways to mitigate
>that, including publishing a trademark policy, offering a contact point to
>ask about the acceptability of changes, and facilitating renaming, for
>example by adding a compilation option to set a different name. I would
>also suggest committing to publish a list of all trademark enforcement
>actions done, so those who consider modifying can get an idea of what will
>actually be accepted or not.
>
>
>1. If we do agree to trademark more names, which names? We tend to
>have lots of names for lots of projects, many of which I suppose may take a
>while to be sufficiently important to justify trademarking. I propose a
>wiki page as a way to list candidates and poll developers about each
>
>
>1. For those names we do trademark, how much should the ™ symbol be
>used? I would not like seeing it everywhere, but I do not mind seeing it in
>the About screen, for instance.
>2. Who would own those trademarks?
>
>
My proposal would be to trademark all app names since they are all liable
to be hijacked by third parties for whatever purposes.  It would mean
adding a ™ symbol on web pages where we promote those apps.  They would be
owned by KDE e.v.  Other apps like KOffice have done this in the past as I
say.  However it seems nobody is very much in suppose of the idea so we'll
just have to live with third parties living off our good names.

Jonathan

Re: KDE Apps name trademarks

[Jonathan Riddell]

One other argument why we might want to trademark our app names would be to
prevent people buying Google adverts against those names such as kdenlive
has had
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/honvoy/google_publishes_misleading_ad_for_a_proprietary/

Jonathan

Re: reddit r_KDE uses KDE logo in LGBT colors

[Jonathan Riddell]

Yes it is legal for KDE to use KDE's logo in any way we want to.  We want
to support KDE contributors and users who are LGBTQI+.  If it blocks people
from funding KDE then we do not want their money.  That you have to ask
shows we still have a long way to go in showing support for an important
issue which affects many people.

Jonathan


On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 at 11:14, sabayon11  wrote:

> I have a question:
> Is it legal for reddit moderators of r_KDE to use KDE logo in LGBT
> colors. Is it consistent with logo license?
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/
>
> Is it in line with KDE code of conduct - to support certain groups
> that are politically active and be selective in this choice? For
> example: why they don't support women rights in middle-east region?
> Who have the right to decide?
>
> Do you realize that it can stop certain people from funding KDE? Of
> course on the other hand it can make others, like George Soros to fund
> but does KDE really want to go in that direction and engage in such
> politics. Pretending that it has nothing to do with politics is a pure
> lie.
>
> What other KDE contributors think about it? For example: do all KDE
> funders support engaging software community in non-software activity?
>
> I know that reddit is separate website and has nothing to do with this
> forum, however this is social and community issue as well.
>
> What about adding to KDE code of conduct: KDE is not engage in social
> or political dispute. KDE doesn't discriminate nor support any groups
> other than Free Software.
>
> Personally I believe there are thousands of other better places on the
> Internet to express whatever point of view someone has and KDE and its
> community should not be involved in such activities.
>
> It is now off. But this doesn't change the meaning of this action.
> My first message about it to this list was on 3rd of July but has not
> been accepted by moderators yet, so I had to subscribe.
>

Re: KDE Apps name trademarks

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 at 12:29, Christoph Cullmann 
wrote:

> You might be able to do that, but as soon as you start to try to keep
> people
> from using the names, the cost-free, bureaucracy-free and layer free
> zone ends.
>

Sending an e-mail to the Microsoft store doesn't need to cost anything, and
it would have more effect if there can be a claim of trademark.  Claiming
copyright infringement as discussed on this thread is also sensible but it
does need more work and will need at least the cost of buying kdiff3 from
their store.


> I really don't think we should start this.
>

Why? Nobody has given any reason against it so far.


> We would need to draft some TM use policy, too.
>

Yeah we'd need to write some simple policy that would allow normal uses
like Linux distros and package archives, but they're not trading using our
app names for the most part so it's not a big issue.


> Better promote our own offerings better and be done
>

I'm all for this as well of course :)

Jonathan

Re: KDE Apps name trademarks

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 at 19:34, Martin Floeser  wrote:

> Am 2020-07-08 18:12, schrieb Jonathan Riddell:
> > Recently we've noticed some KDE apps ending up on the Microsoft Store
> > uploaded by unknown third parties.  Maybe to up some credit score for
> > their developer account.  Maybe to install bitcoin  miners.  We don't
> > know the motivations.  Since it's all free software the licence allows
> > it.
>
> Honestly I don't think we should try to get software from Microsoft
> Store based on trademark. As you already notice our license allows this.
> And even more on Linux it's the normal way that someone else distributes
> our software. Back in the days SuSE even sold our software. It's even
> common that our distributors apply patches to our software. So we
> shouldn't treat the Microsoft Store different to Linux distributions.
>

The difference is we understand the motivations of Linux distros and are
happy to be part of that setup.  We don't understand the motivations of the
random people who put our software on third party app stores and it doesn't
benefit us in any way and it likely detracts from us.

Jonathan

Re: KDE Apps name trademarks

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 at 17:51, Paul Brown  wrote:

> > Should we add ™ next to the app names?
>
> I don't think putting TM next to the name is enough, though. IANAL, so
> take
> the following with a grain of salt: in my experience (I had to register
> several names of magazines back in the day) you always have to go through
> some
> registry office or another to confer any validity to you brand name. It is
> not
> hard and it is not expensive, but it is a bit of a hassle.
>

It is enough to put the TM symbol next to the names, this asserts an
unregistered trademark and is cost-free, bureaucracy-free and applies
internationally.

Jonathan

KDE Apps name trademarks

[Jonathan Riddell]

Recently we've noticed some KDE apps ending up on the Microsoft Store
uploaded by unknown third parties.  Maybe to up some credit score for their
developer account.  Maybe to install bitcoin  miners.  We don't know the
motivations.  Since it's all free software the licence allows it.

One option is to claim Trademark on all our app names.  This isn't hard, we
just add the ™ onto the name anywhere we have it on our website starting
with kde.org/applications. Some apps such as KOffice have done this in the
past anyway.  This doesn't cost anything, only a registered trademark
(which uses the ®. logo) costs money.  It might give us more ability to
take down random people posting our software on app stores.  It might also
make us look more corporate than we want to look and put off Linux distros
from shipping our software.

Should we add ™ next to the app names?

Jonathan

Re: Instagram Account

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 05:46, Valorie Zimmerman 
wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 5:00 AM Jonathan Riddell  wrote:
>
> To you personally, or to some NextCloud instance?
>
>
Whatever works easiest to get it onto my phone.

Jonathan

Re: Instagram Account

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 17:00, Martin Klapetek 
wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 8:00 AM Jonathan Riddell  wrote:
>
>> Me and Niccolo (veggero) have set up an instagram account for KDE.  It
>> feels like a fun new way to engage with some of our users.  Instagram is
>> based on pictures of pretty people and places so screenshots are cool there
>> but will likely bore the audience so we're keen to have pics of KDE doing
>> stuff.
>>
>> https://www.instagram.com/kdecommunity/
>>
>> So send me your pics of doing KDE activities.
>>
>
> Please verify the source and license of whatever you get sent.
>
> The recent "Kubuntu rockstars" photo is mine, I don't know where that
> photo was downloaded from, but whenever I published my KDE-events photos
> they were always under CC-BY-SA, that particular Instagram post does not
> follow this license.
>
> Regardless, it'd be nice to always credit the people who took the photos,
> much like we always credit code and other contributions.
>
>
Yes indeed, sorry about that, updated.

Jonathan

Instagram Account

[Jonathan Riddell]

Me and Niccolo (veggero) have set up an instagram account for KDE.  It
feels like a fun new way to engage with some of our users.  Instagram is
based on pictures of pretty people and places so screenshots are cool there
but will likely bore the audience so we're keen to have pics of KDE doing
stuff.

https://www.instagram.com/kdecommunity/

So send me your pics of doing KDE activities.

More discussion here https://phabricator.kde.org/T12836

And if you want to help out let me know.

Jonathan

Welcoming Kid3

[Jonathan Riddell]

Kid3 has recently passed Incubator to move from hosting on Sourceforge to
hosting as a KDE project.  Please welcome the project to KDE.

https://kid3.kde.org/

*Kid3 - Audio Tagger*

If you want to easily tag multiple MP3, Ogg/Vorbis, FLAC, MPC, MP4/AAC,
MP2, Opus, Speex, TrueAudio, WavPack, WMA, WAV and AIFF files (e.g. full
albums) without typing the same information again and again and have
control over both ID3v1 and ID3v2 tags, then Kid3 is the program you are
looking for.

apps update for Feb

[Jonathan Riddell]

Apps update for Feb is a work in progress at
https://invent.kde.org/websites/kde-org-announcements-releases/blob/master/content/2020-02-apps-update/_index.md
if you have any new feature releases please add them in there

Jonathan

Re: Proposal: Allow REUSE compatible License Statements in License Policy

[Jonathan Riddell]

Well done on taking the lead on this, it seems like a nice step forward in
making our licencing clear and consistent.

Your changes to the policy all seem sensible.

You have kept the licence paragraphs for the file headers in the policy?
Is that needed now with REUSE and SPDX? Can it not just be a line for
SPDX-FileCopyrightText and one for SPDX-License-Identifier in the files
themselves now?

Jonathan

January Apps Update story

[Jonathan Riddell]

If you make releases with new features in the next 31 days please add it to
the January Apps Update story, merge requests welcome
https://invent.kde.org/websites/kde-org-announcements-releases/

Jonathan

Re: Please don't make planet.kde.org into a politics feed

[Jonathan Riddell]

Planet KDE exists to allow KDE people to share information about themselves
as well as their KDE contributions. A hard Brexit will affect KDE
significantly which is why I include it here.  The idea that talking about
politics is dangerous or anti-social really scares me and is one reason why
the populists have taken over so much of the political discussion
currently. I often get people thanking me for my political opinion blogs.
If you don’t want to read it then don’t read it.

The rule we came up with is "The majority of content in your blog should be
about KDE and your work on KDE. Blog posts about personal subjects are also
encouraged since Planet KDE is a chance to learn more about the developers
behind KDE."  I've never heard anyone suggest changes to that rule.

Jonathan


On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 at 11:53, Christian Loosli  wrote:

> Dear Community,
>
> I'm 100% sure this topic came up in the past due to the same blog, but I
> can't
> find it on the mailing list, so I assume it happened on forums or chat:
>
> currently the top blog post on planet.kde.org is about voting for a
> specific
> political party. I understand that in these times there are many countries
> with heated and important political debates, and some very important
> global
> topics as well. However, these already occupy all the news site.
> Now if every blog appearing on the planet would target a political subject
> that is very important to the blogger, planet.kde.org would be yet
> another
> political news/opinions feed.
>
> If I want politics, I go to one of these. If I want to read about KDE, I
> go to
> planet.kde.org.
>
> Please dear bloggers: there are categories, and you can choose which of
> your
> blogs do show up on the planet. I know that some topics are very important
> to
> you and obviously you are free to blog about them, but please keep the
> planet.kde.org feed free of it, so it doesn't become a mess where it's
> hard to
> find the content people actually go there for.
>
> Thanks and kind regards,
>
> Christian
>
>
>

December Apps Update

[Jonathan Riddell]

Our monthly apps update story is being moved onto kde.org for December and
being make to match the release from the release service (previously KDE
Applications).

If you have new features you'd like highlighted that have been released
this month or will be part of the 19.12 releases please let me know or make
merge requests to the story which is in Git here

https://invent.kde.org/websites/kde-org-announcements-releases/blob/master/content/2019-12-apps-update/_index.md

Jonathan

Plasma 5.18 Kickoff Meeting Wednesday 14:00UTC/19500CET

[Jonathan Riddell]

Let's have a Plasma 5.18 Kickoff meeting on Wednesday evening.  Remember
the clocks go back as you wake up on Sunday.  14:00UTC/GMT/British Isles
and 15:00CET

Meet in #plasma:kde.org Matrix room or #plasma freenode IRC channel

Things to discuss and confirm:
Review successes and failures of 5.17
Schedule for 5.18
LTS status for 5.18
What versions of Qt and KF5 we'll support
Propose new Todo items for 5.18

Jonathan

Re: Testbed Discourse Server For Trial discuss.kde.org.uk

[Jonathan Riddell]

How can we progress with this?

It was discussed at Akademy and everyone seemed in favour
https://phabricator.kde.org/T11675

The issues we had with it seem to have useful responses from Discourse
developers
https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-setup-for-kde/128193

I'm very happy to help lead if empowered to do so by sysadmins.

Jonathan



On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 at 16:44, Jonathan Riddell  wrote:

> I've set up a Discourse server for a trail to see if it's something we
> should add to KDE's infrastructure.
>
> Discourse is a modern Free Software web forum and mailing list app.
>
> Give it a trial now at http://discuss.kde.org.uk/
>
> If you want to be an admin do ask me.
>
> If you want a new Category (equivalent to a forum topic or mailing list)
> do ask me.
>
> There's no integration with identity (yet) so you'll need to set up a new
> account.
>
> If you want to use it as a mailing list replacement you need to Watch the
> category.  Categories will need to have an e-mail address added to be able
> to start new threads on from e-mail so ask if you want that.  To get a
> mailing list experience turn it on in Preferences -> emails -> Enable
> mailing list mode
>
> Eventually I would like to see this replace forum.kde.org and allow
> projects to move their mailing lists over to it as they wish.
>
> Jonathan
>
>

Re: Licensing policy and Apache 2.0

[Jonathan Riddell]

I'm not against this but the downsides are:
-it's yet another licence so would add confusion
-it's incompatible with the GPL 2 so there's an increased risk of
incompatible licences interfering with each other

It doesn't seem to cover any use case that isn't covered by the other
permissive licences, it's just a bit more explicit about some of the
detail. Can you say why you think it's useful?

Jonathan


On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 at 19:32, Luigi Toscano 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> right now the licensing policy does not contain the Apache 2.0 license:
> https://community.kde.org/Policies/Licensing_Policy
>
> While it may not be really useful for C++ code, the Apache 2.0 license is
> more
> extensively used by the Python community, and it may be useful for
> infrastructure scripts. For example, I have in mind a few Python-based
> scripts
> for the i18n infrastructure and it may be useful to use it.
>
> I feel that adding Apache 2.0 to section 5 of the licensing policy would be
> enough for this, but of course we may want to create a special section to
> restrict its scope, if we want to avoid its usage in C++ code.
>
> Of course it may be possible to avoid it and just use pure MIT or BSD when
> GPL/LGPL are not used.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Ciao
> --
> Luigi
>

Social Media sysadmin accounts

[Jonathan Riddell]

KDE sysadmin has now set up social media accounts on Facebook and Linkedin
so they can be given admin access to Pages for KDE projects allowing for
account recovery in case other admins go inactive.

If you run a Facebook Page for a KDE project please add this account as
admin to your Page.  You'll probably need to file a ticket with sysadmin to
accept the invite to be admin.
https://www.facebook.com/kde.sysadmin.5

And for LinkedIn you will need to connect to this account, wait for that to
be accepted then set it as admin.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kde-sysadmin-3a1316192/

Details here.
https://community.kde.org/Promo/People/social_media
Please add to this page any missing social media accounts.

Sysadmins can also take and store passwords for social media accounts such
as Twitter, to be used in case recovery is needed.

Jonathan

Applications page now has addons

[Jonathan Riddell]

The Applications page now lists addons to our applications so we finally
have a web page for Latte Dock and KIo GDrive and Printer Config and other
important projects

https://kde.org/applications/

Jonathan

Party Train to Akademy

[Jonathan Riddell]

Me and Dan would like to take the train to Akademy from London via Paris,
it's a full day's travel but about the same cost as flying, much better for
your carbon footprint, much better views and none of the faffy and
expensive getting to and from airports to sit around for hours.

If you'd like in to the booking let me know, either joining at London or at
Paris
https://notes.kde.org/p/akademy-2019-party-train

Jonathan

Testbed Discourse Server For Trial discuss.kde.org.uk

[Jonathan Riddell]

I've set up a Discourse server for a trail to see if it's something we
should add to KDE's infrastructure.

Discourse is a modern Free Software web forum and mailing list app.

Give it a trial now at http://discuss.kde.org.uk/

If you want to be an admin do ask me.

If you want a new Category (equivalent to a forum topic or mailing list) do
ask me.

There's no integration with identity (yet) so you'll need to set up a new
account.

If you want to use it as a mailing list replacement you need to Watch the
category.  Categories will need to have an e-mail address added to be able
to start new threads on from e-mail so ask if you want that.  To get a
mailing list experience turn it on in Preferences -> emails -> Enable
mailing list mode

Eventually I would like to see this replace forum.kde.org and allow
projects to move their mailing lists over to it as they wish.

Jonathan

Re: Updated Apps Website

[Jonathan Riddell]

They are ignored if they are in Playground or KDE Review.  Once past KDE
Review they will appear on that website as long as they have the required
appstream .xml and .desktop files.

(The site is updated nightly on the binary-factory job.)

Jonathan


On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 at 10:47, Alexander Potashev 
wrote:

> Hi Jonathan,
>
> How would you handle the apps being developed (thus, not
> "unmaintained") that have a Git repository, but not released yet?
>
> ср, 5 июн. 2019 г. в 14:08, Jonathan Riddell :
> >
> > The new KDE Applications website is now up
> >
> > https://kde.org/applications/
> >
> > The old one was a manual task of keeping the metadata up to date while
> this one scans builds from build.kde.org and git in search of appstream
> appdata.xml files and converts them into the required info.
> >
> > Technical info at
> > https://community.kde.org/KDE.org/applications
> >
> > If you see mistakes, go and fix them by updating the appstream files.
> These files are also used in distro packages and appstores and new
> container packages so a fix there goes a long way.
> >
> > https://community.kde.org/Guidelines_and_HOWTOs/AppStream
> >
> > Icons come from Breeze.  If you see an issue with an icon I'm sure the
> Breeze folks would be happy for a fix
> > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=407527
> >
> > Future work is to make the content more pretty and relevant.  Adding in
> non app projects in some way.  Adding in version numbers and release notes
> and other features supported by appstream.  Workboard at
> https://phabricator.kde.org/project/board/196/
> >
> > KDE needs to up its game for the support it provides for our
> applications, here's to a great future for them :)
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
>
>
> --
> Alexander Potashev
>

Updated Apps Website

[Jonathan Riddell]

The new KDE Applications website is now up

https://kde.org/applications/

The old one was a manual task of keeping the metadata up to date while this
one scans builds from build.kde.org and git in search of appstream
appdata.xml files and converts them into the required info.

Technical info at
https://community.kde.org/KDE.org/applications

If you see mistakes, go and fix them by updating the appstream files.
These files are also used in distro packages and appstores and new
container packages so a fix there goes a long way.

https://community.kde.org/Guidelines_and_HOWTOs/AppStream

Icons come from Breeze.  If you see an issue with an icon I'm sure the
Breeze folks would be happy for a fix
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=407527

Future work is to make the content more pretty and relevant.  Adding in non
app projects in some way.  Adding in version numbers and release notes and
other features supported by appstream.  Workboard at
https://phabricator.kde.org/project/board/196/

KDE needs to up its game for the support it provides for our applications,
here's to a great future for them :)

Jonathan

GNOME Social Hour chat about Social Media

[Jonathan Riddell]

We're having a chat with Gnome folks about “Managing social media in an
open community” tonight, come along if you are interested.

https://discourse.gnome.org/t/the-gnome-and-kde-communities-meet-at-the-social-hour-event/864

Jonathan

maintainer wanted: kipi-plugins

[Jonathan Riddell]

Kipi Plugins are the image plugins used by Gwenview and other apps.  They
come from Digikam but that project has moved on to a new framework.
Someone should go over the plugins, throw out the broken ones and work out
what apps still use it (Spectacle? KPhotoAlbum?) and consider if they can
be easily ported to something else like Purpose.  Anyone want it?

Jonathan

Appstream Release metadata

[Jonathan Riddell]

I just blogged but worth an e-mail for anyone doing application releases.

https://jriddell.org/2019/04/04/add-appstream-release-data-to-your-app-releases/

Appstream is a metadata standard for your software releases which gets
used by package managers and app stores as well as web sites such as
kde.org (one day at least).

If you are incharge of making releases of an application from KDE mind
and make sure it has an appstream appdata file.  You should also
include a screenshot preferably in the product-screenshots git repo.

You should also add release data to your appstream files.  See the
docs for the full details.  Not all the data will be very practical to
add before the release time but it is useful to at least have a
version number and maybe a release date added in.

I’ve added this to the Releasing Software wiki page now. And I’ve
written a wee script appstream-metainfo-release-update
https://invent.kde.org/jriddell/appstream-metainfo-release-update to
update the XML with a simple command which I’ve now added to the
Plasma release process.

UK Open Source Awards Nominations now open

[Jonathan Riddell]

The UK Open Source Awards is happening again in June in Edinburgh, a
day of celebration and recognition of software freedom.  Frank K is
the keynote speaker and I'm the head judge for the awards.  We're
after nominations for people, companies and organisations doing
interesting things with open source in the UK.

Nominations close April 22, there's 5 categories, if you know anyone
eligible (and self-nominations are welcome too) then do send them in
https://opensourceawards.org/the-awards/

And I hope to see people at the awards day in June.

(This event depends on there not being a no-deal Brexit of course.)

Jonathan

Re: KDE now has its own Matrix infrastructure

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 08:08:14AM -0700, Andy B wrote:
> On his insistence, we worked to have a
> more clear policy of access to social media.

The board didn't work to have a more clear policy of access to social
media.  The promo team did this.  What I'm frustrated at is
understanding why the board would restrict it in the first place
rather than accept and encourage it as a community project where
contributors can get full access like every other part of KDE.

Thanks for engaging.

Love Jonathan

Re: KDE now has its own Matrix infrastructure

[Jonathan Riddell]

Thanks for the discussion, it's what I've been missing :)

I've asked numberous e.V. board members and staff over the years how
e.V. can help people running conference stalls such as the one at
FOSDEM with stuff like logistics, banking, stocktaking, venue hire,
accounts review and stock storage, and each time I get back "meh",
sometimes literally.  Given e.V.'s resources and remit I would have
expected it to be able to help with some of these but so far it
doesn't.  I get some unitemised t-shirts from old Akademys which is
appreciated.

So in the spirit of KDE I've worked out how to do all that for FOSDEM,
it's quite a satisfying way to help the project and I enjoy it.

KDE GB was set up in 2006 to organise Akademy and work around the
limited help from the e.v. board at the time.  All transactions are
publically logged and itemised and I'd always welcome any review. I've
suggested making it a partner organisation of the e.v. to board
members before and suggested making it a registered charity in
Scotland which would bring in 20% extra revenue from any donations
from UK tax payers but heard back no interest from the e.v. so not
pursued it.

Jonathan

Re: KDE now has its own Matrix infrastructure

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 08:06:00AM -0800, Andy B wrote:
> However, I recommend to always assume best intentions in everything.
> Once we deride, criticize and slander, we stop the e.V. Board’s
> ability to help. We walk into the battle wounded. Assuming best
> intentions will also help you remove the pressure that suspicion
> creates. I tell that to our engineers at my work all the time. I think
> it is sound advice.

Given this principle does the board see that its choice to query the
legality of me running a conference stall at FOSDEM after 15 years of
only token involvement from the e.v. was insulting?

Jonathan

Re: KDE now has its own Matrix infrastructure

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 03:06:22PM -0800, Valorie Zimmerman wrote:
> Hey Jon, I hope that the CWG response was not dismissive, and you were
> certainly not ignored. We always listen and try to help when possible. If you
> didn't feel at the very least listened to, we failed there. 
> 
> You are one of the most stalwart and longest-serving volunteers, so when you
> are unhappy and angry, I don't think anyone is happy about that. That doesn't
> mean that all of us see your list above as an accurate statement.

Thanks :)

In over a decade of helping promo in KDE it was always the case that
someone could come in and show willingness and competance and be given
access to the accounts needed to be a full member.  When I left the
team in 2017 and came back in 2018 this had changed and I was told I
could not get access to accounts, a decision which seems to have been
taken by the e.v. board.  We fixed this after Akademy 2018 with a
formal policy.  Will the CWG now look into why this change happened
against the norms everywhere else in KDE?

Jonathan

Re: KDE now has its own Matrix infrastructure

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 08:06:00AM -0800, Andy B wrote:
> With that said, is there anything that we can help with in this
> particular instance? Do we feel that we are satisfied with the answers
> provided?

Why did the e.v. president block shutting down the social-media
mailing list?  The list is unused (we assume), unwanted and not the
business of the e.v. board which lists it uses.

Jonathan

Re: KDE now has its own Matrix infrastructure

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 11:22:03AM -0700, Nate Graham wrote:
> It's no great secret that Paul and Jonathan don't have a great working 
> relationship, but this problem needs to be addressed openly.

Au contrate, we have spent many a fine night drinking beer and whisky
together from Edinburgh to Sarajevo.  The issue I have is when we have
structures intended to resolve issues like the e.v. board or the CWG
and they choose not to.

Jonathan

Re: KDE now has its own Matrix infrastructure

[Jonathan Riddell]

The workboard item is https://phabricator.kde.org/T10477 ,  it wasn't
tagged KDE promo, it wasn't sent to the dot-editors list and I wasn't
pinged (I'm the only active volunteer Dot editor).

I've tried to discuss problems in promo with the e.V. board and CWG in
the past when long term contributors have left, when the team was
changed from a community team to a closed access team, when our
mailing lists were micro managed or when I was insulted for organising
a conference stall but I've only been dismissed or ignored and the
community at large seems happy for that to happen so I can't offer any
assurances of changes.

Jonathan

On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 at 11:46, Christian Loosli  wrote:
>
> Hi Jonathan,
>
> thanks for the wrap-up.
> I am less interested in pointing blame, and more interested in
>
> - how this could have happened
> - what our learnings are so this doesn't happen again in the future?
>
> It still is unclear to me how non-true accusations without further explanation
> made it into the article. Even for people who are not familiar with the
> subject, this imho should never happen. If you are not sure, you don't throw
> around accusations of things being insecure.
> It bothers me even more that there is a lengthy discussion on the subject (and
> a follow up survey and result) available to the people who participated in
> this, the article looked to me like this discussion, survey and result (that
> we did put a lot of time and effort in) were ignored.
>
> From what I gathered it even was given to the right people to proof-read, but
> the article was released without waiting for a reply. How can that happen, and
> why was it so urgent to push that article out?
>
> So to avoid this in the future, I'd like to see us following a process that
> does involved proof-reading by people familiar with the subject, so we look as
> professional as we as KDE should be by now, and usually are.
>
> As a last but not least, I'm also not terribly happy when people involved were
> also the ones still, in public, making statements against one of the
> technologies we decided to use and support, stating we should abandon them.
> Together with the flawed article this doesn't look good.
> I'd love to see people at least try to not let their personal views bias them
> too much, especially not when a group decision was made. I have my personal
> views and preferences on this too, but I try my best to accept the decision
> taken and support it.
>
> Thanks and kind regards,
>
> Christian
>
>

Re: KDE now has its own Matrix infrastructure

[Jonathan Riddell]

Chatting about this Dot story on the dot-editors list it seems the
story was written by the Matrix and Onboarding teams, reviewed by a
few people, but none who happened to pick up the concerns noted when
it was published.  The story was amended when those concerns were
raised. Apologies for the controversy.

Jonathan

Re: Notice of forced moderation being enabled

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 09:32:47PM +1300, Ben Cooksley wrote:
> Following discussions over the past 24 hours which have been rather
> inflammatory I have taken the step of enabling mandatory moderation
> for all messages posted to this mailing list.

I don't see anything which would require this mailing list to get
posts blocked.  Not being able to communicate during a major change in
our infrastructure seems quite counter-productive.

Jonathan

Re: Don't shoot the messenger (was Re: KDE now has its own Matrix

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 02:06:26PM +0100, Paul Brown wrote:
> What the subject says. Please address your concerns to the people who made 
> the 
> decision and passed down the bullet points of the text.

Posts on KDE Dot News should be reviewed by other Dot editors which
this one doesn't seem to have been, and editors should take
reposonsibility for the contents rather than hide behind some
anonymous decision makers, this is not how we work in KDE.

Jonathan

Planet KDE's Twitter KDE List

[Jonathan Riddell]

Planet KDE has a feed of Twitter posts from a manually curated list of
KDE people on it.  This is below the Reddit feed and Mastodon KDE
account feed.  It replaced the embedded #kde tag in Twitter when they
removed the ability to embed that.

Since it's been set up I've had nobody suggest themselves or others be
added to the feed and I fear it'll just get more off topic and
irrelevant.

Does anyone have an opinion on whether it's useful and interesting?  I
can't decide.

Jonathan

KDE at FOSDEM 2019

[Jonathan Riddell]

KDE at FOSDEM 2019

I organised the stall and evening meal at FOSDEM for KDE again this year.

Stall:
1 table again in building K, about as wide as stretching your arms out
sideways but we extended it with boxes.  Nice table cloth. Nice back
drop using Come Home to KDE in 2019 design.  Nice monitor from Kenny
C. Most stuff I drove from Scotland and back.

Demos:
Plasma Mobile
Slimbook (but my charger broke half way through!)
Pinebook (but I also lacked a charger for my one, other people brought
their ones)
Plasma Mobile on Nexus 5X (which similarly liked to run out of charge
when on USB and needed mains power)
RK3399 (worked great on the main monitor)
RISC V (Alistair did a stormer on the stall and got lots of queries on this)
Raspberry Pi 3
Krita - live drawing from Wolkera and Boud on hand for questions and selfies
GCompris - Timotee and Aish for demos, popular with children
KDevLive - Camille did a live demo which was so popular with questions
I'm not sure how far he got with the editing, which is a good thing

Sales:
Tally says we sold 35 t-shirts but in the rush that will miss some and
the stock difference is 43 t-shirts.
1 hoodie sold. 1 cushion. 1 krita bag. 6 krita videos.
I used a SumUp card reader for the first time which was a great help.
Some people insisted on paying with cash which is faffy.
total taken £706.11
Stock take at 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QLH76Dk-F8vwIjJ1K56wDozj08NGn2BR6l1uTsIAOMM/edit?usp=sharing
My KDE GB stock has 30 random t-shirts left, 5 krita videos, 1
cushion, a table cloth, a backdrop, a roll-up poster stand for KDE and
one for KDE neon.  This is available for others to use as needed.
I was pretty jelous of Gnome's fold up set of shelves which allowed
t-shirts to maintain some sort of order, maybe an idea for future.

Food:
The venue I'd booked for the Saturday meal turned out not to exist so
I had to find another one at short notice but that seemed to work
fine.
25 people came. 13 KDE people, 5 nextcloud, 5 lawyers, 2 canoeists
Lots of KDE people did their own thing or went to a more fancy do with Pine.
We went to the Gnome beer event afterwards which was much more busy
but that's because it was advertised to the general public which I'm
scared to do with a food event incase we get too many people. I did
have to turn away some people from our event who in the end could have
come because I'd been told to expect more but this is pretty common
and it's never quite ideal.

Talks:
no KDE talks sadly

e.V.
I got a weird query from an e.V. board member in the week before the
stall suggesting it wasn't legal for me to help KDE.  e.V. has never
done more then token aid for these stalls and in the spirit of KDE
I've always just worked around that, so this was pretty insulting.
I'd hope that e.V. would start helping people running KDE stalls more
in future, it is its reason for existing, but until then people will
continue to do it through other means.

Various photos at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/albums/72157678444061768

Jonathan

Re: Licensing policy change proposal

[Jonathan Riddell]

Well others have queried and objected so I guess it's not final.  But
if someone declares their work to be in the pubic domain then a) that
satisfies our needs and the needs of all our distributors and b) no
court in the world is going to uphold a complaint for any use when it
has been explicitly said it's unrestricted.

Jonathan

On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 19:43, Krešimir Čohar  wrote:
>
> Thanks for the vote of confidence haha
> So to sum up though, is CC0 acceptable?
> if we confirm that the images we're going to use are CC0 can we use them?
>
> On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 8:22 PM Jonathan Riddell  wrote:
>>
>> You can but try :)
>>
>> On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 18:56, Krešimir Čohar  wrote:
>> >
>> > Should we ask Unsplash and/or the photographers if they'd be willing to 
>> > release the photographs we selected (seeing as there aren't that many) as 
>> > CC0?
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 9:25 AM Jonathan Riddell  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > The Unsplash license looks like a FOSS license to me.
>> >>
>> >> It is a non-free licence which we can not use. 'This license does not
>> >> include the right to compile photos from Unsplash to replicate a
>> >> similar or competing service.'
>> >>
>> >> > The CC0 and other public domain licenses bring in complexity without a 
>> >> > clear benefit.
>> >>
>> >> CC0 is a declaration not a licence and we really can't stop including
>> >> works in the public domain, as others have said it includes many
>> >> elements of what we ship including other works people have declared as
>> >> public domain, UI elements and APIs and indeed the complete works of
>> >> Shakespeare if we so wished.
>> >>
>> >> Jonathan

Re: Licensing policy change proposal

[Jonathan Riddell]

You can but try :)

On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 18:56, Krešimir Čohar  wrote:
>
> Should we ask Unsplash and/or the photographers if they'd be willing to 
> release the photographs we selected (seeing as there aren't that many) as CC0?
>
> On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 9:25 AM Jonathan Riddell  wrote:
>>
>> > The Unsplash license looks like a FOSS license to me.
>>
>> It is a non-free licence which we can not use. 'This license does not
>> include the right to compile photos from Unsplash to replicate a
>> similar or competing service.'
>>
>> > The CC0 and other public domain licenses bring in complexity without a 
>> > clear benefit.
>>
>> CC0 is a declaration not a licence and we really can't stop including
>> works in the public domain, as others have said it includes many
>> elements of what we ship including other works people have declared as
>> public domain, UI elements and APIs and indeed the complete works of
>> Shakespeare if we so wished.
>>
>> Jonathan

Re: Licensing policy change proposal

[Jonathan Riddell]

> The Unsplash license looks like a FOSS license to me.

It is a non-free licence which we can not use. 'This license does not
include the right to compile photos from Unsplash to replicate a
similar or competing service.'

> The CC0 and other public domain licenses bring in complexity without a clear 
> benefit.

CC0 is a declaration not a licence and we really can't stop including
works in the public domain, as others have said it includes many
elements of what we ship including other works people have declared as
public domain, UI elements and APIs and indeed the complete works of
Shakespeare if we so wished.

Jonathan

Re: Licensing policy change proposal

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 at 18:04, Krešimir Čohar  wrote:
> The licenses are:
> - the Pexels license: https://www.pexels.com/photo-license/
> - the Unsplash license: https://unsplash.com/license, 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsplash#License

These are both non-free licences and we can not ship files which can
only be copied with their restrictions.

> - the Creative Commons Zero License: https://spdx.org/licenses/CC0-1.0.html

We can of course ship files which are in the public domain as they are
unrestricted, it doesn't need a change to our licence policy.

Jonathan

Re: Discourse

[Jonathan Riddell]

I asked Alan the Ubuntu community manager if he had insights into their setup 
and security concerns, he said:

 In short, do what upstream supports. I setup a discourse recently which 
I did using digitialocean and the upstream install process, which indeed is 
inside docker
 ( I haven't read that thread yet, just voicing what I did recently )
 If you want support when things break, it's best to install the way 
upstream recommend, which is docker
 Also, tiny tidbit, the Ubuntu Desktop team completely shutdown the 
ubuntu desktop mailing list and moved to discourse. 
 We get so much more engagement with the community now. Especially as we 
use Ubuntu SSO for sign on.

Re: Discourse

[Jonathan Riddell]

I asked Greg from Fedora who has led their change away from mailing lists onto 
Discourse.

 gwmngilfen: over in KDE land the discussion about Discourse
continues with queries about whether running in a Docker is a good
idea (seems ideal to me but sysadmins disagree) and if there's any
security concerns
 any insight?

 i'm largely with you

 it does make things very easy to manage with respect to
rebuilding the app if needed, and i'm not sure what your security
implications might be, assuming the box is appropriately secured (we
only open 443, 22, and 25 to recieve mail)

 also if discourse itself is compromised, does it not
follow that docker would be more secure, since you;d also have to
escape the container?

-*- gwmngilfen doesn't know that for certain but it seems logical

Re: social-media list

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Thu, Nov 01, 2018 at 11:24:26PM +0100, Albert Astals Cid wrote:
> El dijous, 1 de novembre de 2018, a les 21:48:36 CET, Jonathan Riddell va 
> escriure:
> > On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 08:34:31PM +0000, Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> > > Is anyone using this list or can we shut it down?
> > > 
> > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/social-media
> > 
> > Guess not, I'll ask for it to be removed.
> 
> I'm really puzzled by your email:
>  A) Why did you ask if that list is used here instead of asking in the list 
> itself? 
>  B) Do you realize you just waited for 24 hours and on top of that today is a 
> holiday in lots of places in the world thus people will be less prone to 
> answering?

Shrug, nobody on the promo team is on the list or knows what it is for
or who is on the list or who runs it.  We don't use it.  We've put a
lot of effort into reverting promo back to a community team after some
still anonymous group decided it, alone in all of KDE, could not be
run in a community process.  We can only hope the same problem does
not get caused in other KDE teams.  This is a final bit of tidying up
to make the infrastructure reflect how it works.

Jonathan

Re: social-media list

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 08:34:31PM +, Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> Is anyone using this list or can we shut it down?
> 
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/social-media

Guess not, I'll ask for it to be removed.

Jonathan

Re: Fwd: Top 15 Mailinglists with messages in moderation

[Jonathan Riddell]

Why not just use kde-apps-announce? Having a separate mailing list for each 
application just means people won't bother subscribing or moderating.

Jonathan


On Thu, Nov 01, 2018 at 03:30:33PM -0500, Scott Petrovic wrote:
> @boud - Yes, that is the mailing list for Krita release notifications. The
> emails say not to directly reply to it, but some people still do. Every once 
> in
> a while there is something important. With so many people on that mailing 
> list,
> it is usually spam email responses. 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:07 PM Boudewijn Rempt  wrote:
> 
> On donderdag 1 november 2018 19:18:14 CET Ben Cooksley wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Please see below, can the moderators for those lists please take a look
> at
> > their queues?
> >
> > If needed we can also look at adding additional moderators for some of
> > those lists to help out.
> 
> >       5 krita-announce
> 
> Huh... What's that? Is that the list we use for release notification that
> people can subscribe from at krita.org? If so, please make me moderator.
> 
> --
> https://www.valdyas.org | https://www.krita.org
> 
> 
> 

social-media list

[Jonathan Riddell]

Is anyone using this list or can we shut it down?

https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/social-media

Jonathan

Re: Discourse

[Jonathan Riddell]

More information on Fedora use experience, the graphs are impressive
for those who think it's important to keep people in KDE

https://theforeman.org/2018/07/discourse-6-months-on-impact-assesment.html

Jonathan

On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 at 18:32, Jonathan Riddell  wrote:
>
>
> Discourse is modern forum and mailing list software.  Examples at 
> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ or https://discourse.ubuntu.com/
>
> I went to a talk at the Embedded Linux Summit about how Fedora moved to use 
> Discourse.  Similar to the discussion of moving away from IRC we had last 
> year I see people moving away from mailing lists and new contributors not 
> wanting to get into them.  Our KDE Forums also look quite old school.  In 
> Fedora they moved to Discourse and mailing lists and forums and saw a marked 
> increase in engagement.
>
> I think KDE should consider moving away from mailman and onto Discourse and 
> at the same time forum.kde.org could move to this more modern software. It 
> might also help cover Boud's use case of a user support method for people 
> with queries before the report a bug.
>
> More coverage on last week's LWN
> https://lwn.net/Articles/768483/
>
> Discussing it in person it was pointed out that we do already use
> Phabricator Workboards for much discussion and it might well overlap
> there, although I don't think that would be any more of an issue than
> mailing lists overlapping.
>
> Jonathan

Re: Discourse

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 at 20:56, Luca Beltrame  wrote:
> - As far as I remember, they *only* supported deployment with Docker.
>   This is is IMO a terrible and black-magic approach

Seems like a perfectly sensible and modern way to deploy.  You can log
into the running container fine and twiddle as needed.

> - It uses (used to use?) PostgreSQL as database, for which Sysadmin
>   isn't really keen on using unless absolutely necessary

Shrug, personal taste.

> - The UX is not as best as it looks, hijacks stuff like the back button
>   on the browser and what not

Shrug, personal taste.

> - The "app" on mobile is a joke, basically a web view of the mobile page

I'm told the app works fine web view or no, doesn't seem a reason to
dislike an app.

> > I think KDE should consider moving away from mailman and onto
>
> Does Discourse have a mail interface to avoid breaking user workflows?
> How should a migration be handled? Don't forget we'll lose distributed
> archiving of the mailing lists as well (very useful).

It certainly notifies by e-mail, I've not yet worked out how it treats
incoming e-mail.

It has import filters for mailman and maybe phpBB but also if we ever
got to a point where we dropped the current systems entirely they can
just be turned read only and continue to be used as archives.

> Also, don't forget that "should", to quote a seminar I was at recently,
> should become "I/we/they will". If no one is willing to put support
> with the (aged! I'm not saying it's perfect) forum infrastructure why
> do you think one would put up with the new?

Of course it would need someone to do the work, but it would mean
replacing two systems with one.

Jonathan

Discourse

[Jonathan Riddell]

Discourse is modern forum and mailing list software.  Examples at 
https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ or https://discourse.ubuntu.com/

I went to a talk at the Embedded Linux Summit about how Fedora moved to use 
Discourse.  Similar to the discussion of moving away from IRC we had last year 
I see people moving away from mailing lists and new contributors not wanting to 
get into them.  Our KDE Forums also look quite old school.  In Fedora they 
moved to Discourse and mailing lists and forums and saw a marked increase in 
engagement.  

I think KDE should consider moving away from mailman and onto Discourse and at 
the same time forum.kde.org could move to this more modern software. It might 
also help cover Boud's use case of a user support method for people with 
queries before the report a bug.

More coverage on last week's LWN
https://lwn.net/Articles/768483/

Discussing it in person it was pointed out that we do already use
Phabricator Workboards for much discussion and it might well overlap
there, although I don't think that would be any more of an issue than
mailing lists overlapping.

Jonathan

Re: help desk vs bug tracker

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 03:31:35PM +0100, Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
> As for a helpdesk system vs bugzilla: we get too many user support questions 
> in bugzilla, like https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=399639 or  https://
> bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=399494.

For Ubuntu there is a Questions feature in Launchpad is similar to the bug 
tracker but for support.

https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu

But in over a decade doing Ubuntu stuff I never used it and I think the number 
of people using it it very few.  Users would rather use forums like 
https://ubuntuforums.org/ or Stack Exchange or Discourse for asking for help.  
Which takes me onto a related topic I'll e-mail about next.

Jonathan

Re: pseudonymous contributions to KDE

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 06:38:15AM -0400, Adriaan de Groot wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 6:02:22 AM EDT Luigi Toscano wrote:
> > Jonathan Riddell ha scritto:
> > > On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 07:38:35PM +0200, Jos van den Oever wrote:
> > >> Can one sign a Fiduciary License Agreement under pseudonym?
> > > 
> > > Same as above on the whole.  At least in Scotland there's no
> > > restrictions on what name you chose to use for any purpose as long as
> > > it's not for fraud.
> > 
> > Can we talk to lawyers and other coding communities? This is not something
> > that can be decided just thinking about "more contributions".
> 
> The FLA is an agreement between a German organization (that is, the KDE e.V.) 
> and the licensor (that is, the contributor who is handing the fiduciary 
> license to the licensee). That makes Scottish norms irrelevant -- and part of 
> this discussion, too, since it's about what the *e.V.* will (or can) accept. 
> I 
> don't know if the FLA contains, off-hand, choice-of-jurisdiction phrasing. 
> It's certainly something to discuss with one of our tame lawyers (who are not 
> our lawyers in a formal sense).

This question has two parts, code contributions and FLA.  Code
contributions are public and we could easily allow psudonames there
but not for FLA which is just a bit of paper in a filing cabinet
somewhere.  This would allow for privacy and German court happyness.

Jonathan

Re: pseudonymous contributions to KDE

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 07:38:35PM +0200, Jos van den Oever wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> What is the KDE policy on accepting code contributions under pseudonym? I've 
> gotten review requests on Rust Qt Binding Generator under a pseudonym. Now I 
> wonder if I can accept the contribution. The contributor has, under 
> pseudonym, 
> a KDE account.

I don't see why not, we are nerds and for whatever reason lots of
nerds like to use pseudonym, shutting that off would just limit our
contributions for no good reason.

> Can one sign a Fiduciary License Agreement under pseudonym?

Same as above on the whole.  At least in Scotland there's no
restrictions on what name you chose to use for any purpose as long as
it's not for fraud.  Obviously the harder it is to prove a name
matches to a real person the harder it would be to test in a
worst-case-scenario court case but I think limiting it would just
limit our contributions for no good reason.

Jonathan

Re: Public report of the Community Working Group

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Sat, 11 Aug 2018 at 16:53, Valorie Zimmerman
 wrote:
> * Case: conflict between Plasma release manager and Promo team in
> public (KDE Community list)
> Outcome: Open

This has now been resolved and the team has reverted back to it's
previous state as a community team where all can play a full part.
This has been one of the most de-spiriting episodes I've had in the 20
years I've spent with KDE and has taken a vast amount of effort from
me and others on the promo team. Community members should not just be
told they can't play a full part in a team they have been long
standing members of and the CWG should not just ignore community
concerns when asked as happened here.

Jonathan

Re: FOSDEM: call to action!

[Jonathan Riddell]

https://phabricator.kde.org/T9477

On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 03:12:43PM +, Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> 
> Yes, I send them out every year after the stall to this list.  The links are 
> on the Phab item for FOSDEM where FOSDEM work is also being coordinated.

Re: FOSDEM: call to action!

[Jonathan Riddell]

Yes, I send them out every year after the stall to this list.  The links are on 
the Phab item for FOSDEM where FOSDEM work is also being coordinated.

Jonathan


On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 09:14:11PM +0200, Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
> Do we actually have any numbers about how much merchandise we can get through 
> during Fosdem? I know that my Krita tat was all gone by the end of Saturday...
> 
> On vrijdag 24 augustus 2018 20:26:46 CEST Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
> > Okay, I will contact my friendly local printer and get estimates. I guess
> > that actually asking for the table is already something set in motion?
> > 
> > On vrijdag 24 augustus 2018 20:05:31 CEST Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> > > Hey :)
> > > 
> > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 9:23 PM Boudewijn Rempt  wrote:
> > > > * We need decoration for the stand. Cloths for the table. Do we have
> > > > those? We should have vertical banners designed and printed: I would
> > > > like
> > > > one for kde as a whole, one for krita + kdenlive, one for plasma --
> > > > three
> > > > would cover the backside of the table, and obviate the necessity to
> > > > plaster the window with tape. Can KDE e.V. pay for those?
> > > 
> > > Yeah that shouldn't be a problem. Send a rough budget to the board and
> > > we'll sort it out.
> > > 
> > > > * Merchandise. I have, again, or maybe still, plenty of Krita stuff to
> > > > hand
> > > > out. We should have KDE stuff, too. For that, we need designs, we need
> > > > money; I have a local printer who can do cool stuff and a big suitcase.
> > > > We need a budget.
> > > 
> > > Same. Send the budget to the board and we'll sort it out. I don't
> > > expect any issues.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Cheers
> > > Lydia
> 
> 
> -- 
> https://www.valdyas.org | https://www.krita.org
> 

Re: Twitter access

[Jonathan Riddell]

I had asked the CWG the following:


Who are the higher-ups I've been told control access to KDE social
media accounts, how did they get their position, how are they
accountable to KDE as a whole and how do they decide who can
contribute to KDE's promo?

Is it desired I have access to two of KDE's social media accounts but
not more or should I be removed from the accounts I do have access to?

Is there a general blockage on community members being full members of
KDE promo or is it just a limitation for me?


The only answer I got was about how feeling amongst wider Linux users
was good for Plasma these days and therefor the promo team must be the
right setup, which confuses correlation and causation.  I understood
the CWG would take no further interest and it was surprising to see
Valorie considered it an open issue today.  Any other feedback I've
had on the issue is just patronising comments about the need for
review as if I was not aware of the process over the last 15 years.  I
had hoped to get back into promo having stepped back from being
hassled last year.  But as all of KDE except a few I have spoken to
privately are happy with the current promo set up I have just stopped
my involvement and will move on to other places where I can take a
full part.  Stuff I did which KDE may want to try to fill includes
FOSDEM stalls, Embedded Linux Conf stall, Planet KDE, promo for Plasma
releases beyond the announcement, articles during Akademy week, other
random stuff as I felt the need.

Jonathan





On 11 August 2018 at 20:59, Paul Brown  wrote:
> On sábado, 11 de agosto de 2018 20:39:51 (CEST) Jonathan Riddell wrote:
>> Everyone seems fine for Promo to be run in an opaque way with
>> community members unable to take a full part.
>
> What do you think is opaque, Jonathan? It would help us if you could give us
> concrete examples so we could change anything that isn't working.
>
>> That makes it
>> uninteresting as a volunteer activity for me so I stopped doing promo
>> again.  The promo team is very welcome to work with me on Plasma
>> releases,
>
> This is good news.
>
>> although they've had a very poor record of doing this in the
>> past.
>
> I recall things differently, than again, we have worked with several projects,
> (such as Kdenlive, Krita, etc.) on their releases and things have worked well.
> I may be mixing things up. The thing is, if we can make it work for them, we
> can sure make it work for Plasma.
>
> As with other projects, for which we have representatives connected to the
> Promo channels all day, every day, I would again like to invite you to rejoin
> Promo actively so we can all work together openly on what's best for Plasma.
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 01:16:44AM -0700, Valorie Zimmerman wrote:
>> > Sorry to speak up so late in this process; however I need to make an
>> > Akademy report.
>> >
>> > Jon, have you worked out with the Promo team how best to coordinate
>> > release promo in the future? If not, is there someone else in the
>> > Plasma release team who will be taking over this duty?
>> >
>> > I would appreciate a response today.
>> >
>> > Valorie
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Andy B  wrote:
>> > > On July 19, 2018 at 9:26:03 AM, David Narvaez
>> > > (david.narv...@computer.org)
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:05 AM, Jonathan Riddell 
> wrote:
>> > >> I did but I see nobody has an interest in me being a full part of it
>> > >
>> > > That's simply not true: we have all seen Paul Brown's message where
>> > > you are invited to participate in the promo team. What you mean to say
>> > > is that you are not allowed to be part of the promo team under your
>> > > own rules and conditions, but when you put it like that you do not
>> > > sound much like a victim and you lose some negotiation power.
>> > >
>> > > While I personally have no position regarding your one-man charge
>> > > against the promo team (I do not have enough information to pick a
>> > > side here), I am very much against your theatrical portrayal of the
>> > > issue when we can all clearly see what is going on here. If you want
>> > > to do promo under your own terms like back in the ol' days 15 years
>> > > ago, then just say so, no need to play victim.
>> > >
>> > > David E. Narvaez
>> > >
>> > > Before we are too flustered by this interaction, let’s see what we can
>> > > do
>> > > now. Jon, does the team need to post anything to our twitter account? Is
>> > > there something that needs to be out soon?
>
>
> --
> Promotion & Communication
>
> www: http://kde.org
> Mastodon: https://mastodon.technology/@kde
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/
> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity
>

Re: Twitter access

[Jonathan Riddell]

Everyone seems fine for Promo to be run in an opaque way with
community members unable to take a full part.  That makes it
uninteresting as a volunteer activity for me so I stopped doing promo
again.  The promo team is very welcome to work with me on Plasma
releases, although they've had a very poor record of doing this in the
past.

Jonathan



On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 01:16:44AM -0700, Valorie Zimmerman wrote:
> Sorry to speak up so late in this process; however I need to make an
> Akademy report.
> 
> Jon, have you worked out with the Promo team how best to coordinate
> release promo in the future? If not, is there someone else in the
> Plasma release team who will be taking over this duty?
> 
> I would appreciate a response today.
> 
> Valorie
> 
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Andy B  wrote:
> >
> > On July 19, 2018 at 9:26:03 AM, David Narvaez (david.narv...@computer.org)
> > wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:05 AM, Jonathan Riddell  
> > wrote:
> >> I did but I see nobody has an interest in me being a full part of it
> >
> > That's simply not true: we have all seen Paul Brown's message where
> > you are invited to participate in the promo team. What you mean to say
> > is that you are not allowed to be part of the promo team under your
> > own rules and conditions, but when you put it like that you do not
> > sound much like a victim and you lose some negotiation power.
> >
> > While I personally have no position regarding your one-man charge
> > against the promo team (I do not have enough information to pick a
> > side here), I am very much against your theatrical portrayal of the
> > issue when we can all clearly see what is going on here. If you want
> > to do promo under your own terms like back in the ol' days 15 years
> > ago, then just say so, no need to play victim.
> >
> > David E. Narvaez
> >
> > Before we are too flustered by this interaction, let’s see what we can do
> > now. Jon, does the team need to post anything to our twitter account? Is
> > there something that needs to be out soon?
> 
> -- 
> http://about.me/valoriez

Re: Twitter access

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 04:19:50PM +0200, Aleix Pol wrote:
> I don't see how requesting access to by-pass the team is to be part of the 
> team.
> Do you want to be part of the KDE promo team?

I did but I see nobody has an interest in me being a full part of it
and I've no interest in being a part member and I'm out of energy now.

Jonathan

Re: Twitter access

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 03:10:29PM +0200, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> Nobody has wronged you. There are no unnamed higher powers blocking community 
> contributions. As Paul has explained in detail in his reply to your email, 
> there is a standard procedure within the Promo community that everyone 
> follows. You are not treated any different from the rest of the team.

I am aware of the process.  I have followed it for 15 years.

> It's a team effort, and as long as you can act as part of that team, your 
> contributions are valued and welcome like everyone else's.

Then why do I have access to some accounts but not to others?  It's
trivial to fix, obviously illogical, but everyone thinks that's ok.

> We are finally at a point where we have a promo team truly acting as a team, 
> and it would be great if you could be part of that team.

I'm very much feeling like I'm not wanted on the team.

Jonathan

Re: Twitter access

[Jonathan Riddell]

> On Thursday, 19 July 2018 14:25:41 CEST Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> > But
> > I have access to KDE social media and have done since we started
> > having any.  But for some reason I am being blocked from this one
> > account.  Nobody has yet said who by or why.  It's illogical,
> > humiliating and despiriting.
> 
> I think this is a feeling constructed from the simple coincidence that nobody 
> has found out who is actually capable of giving you access to that account 
> yet, so let's maybe tune down the whole discussion one level, please?
> 
> I'm sure all is meant well by everyone and there is not really anything 
> adverse going on here.

I have been told there are higher-ups who control this.  Somebody knows and 
isn't letting on.

Jonathan

Re: Twitter access

[Jonathan Riddell]

> On 07/19/2018 09:25 PM, Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> > As I say I am aware of the process and the need for restrictions.  But
> > I have access to KDE social media and have done since we started
> > having any.  But for some reason I am being blocked from this one
> > account.  Nobody has yet said who by or why.  It's illogical,
> > humiliating and despiriting.
> 
> First of, we're kind of on the wrong mailing list for this, which
> is making the whole exchange a bit awkward and is probably making
> people a bit stand-off-ish. For discussing the details of promo
> business we have a promo list.

I asked on promo list and social-media list and I've just been
blanked.  This is not a new issue it has been going on for some time.

> Then, did you miss Paul's reply? The exchange from my POV is
> currently at "Hey, can I have the password to Twitter directly
> because I am Plasma release person?" - "Hey, the promo community
> has a whole strategy now for how we compose these together with
> peer review and doesn't really have anyone direct-post anymore".

I am aware of the process.  I have followed it for the last 15 years.
I have been the only active member for much of that time.  To be
managed out like this after all that time is horrible and being told
what the process is that I've maintained for longer than anyone is
just patronising.

Jonathan

Re: Twitter access

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 09:13:16PM +0900, Eike Hein wrote:
> I agree the "unnamed" and not having good docs (hello again, topic)
> on this is bad.
> 
> There's a long history of the web presence being treated in a special
> way, though. Even in the good old CVS/SVN days, you needed a special
> permission bit to be able to commit to www/ doled out by sysadmin via
> a murky badly-defined process. This isn't a new problem. This problem
> predates most of our present-day contributors, so it's ironically a
> very KDE thing.
> 
> Here's the way to fix this: kde-promo writes a documentation page on
> the wiki about how the Twitter account is run and how exactly to
> escalate requests related to it.

As I say I am aware of the process and the need for restrictions.  But
I have access to KDE social media and have done since we started
having any.  But for some reason I am being blocked from this one
account.  Nobody has yet said who by or why.  It's illogical,
humiliating and despiriting.

Jonathan

Re: Twitter access

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 01:01:25PM +0100, David Edmundson wrote:
> 
> So that's a no then.  Tell these higher-ups that partial blocking of a
> proven contributor from completing a specific task when they have 15
> years of track record is demotivating and not how things should be
> done in KDE.
> 
> 
> Peer review is exactly how things should be done in KDE.
> 
> I don't understand the problem, maybe you can explain what is unique about 
> your
> specific task that means you should skip it.

I know the process, I've been doing it for 15 years.  I'm not skipping
the process I'm being blocked by an opaque group from doing it in an
efficient manor as I have done successfully for longer than any other
person in KDE.

Jonathan

Re: Twitter access

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 03:45:26PM +0200, Paul Brown wrote:
> On miércoles, 18 de julio de 2018 15:16:39 (CEST) Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> > I'll stop doing KDE promo again then.
> 
> Please don't. I for one value your contributions and think that a rift 
> between 
> Promo and yourself would be bad for both parties.
> 
> > KDE shouldn't have unnamed
> > higher powers who block community contributions.
> 
> This is not the case. The only thing is that  we don't do off-the-cuff social 
> posts any more. Is there a small group of people who has access to the social 
> media accounts? Yes. And not everybody even in promo has access to the social 
> media account? That is correct.
> 
> But that is because it is not necessary: when somebody wants to post 
> something, we discuss the wording (for a very short while -- it doesn't drag 
> on anything) in the promo channels, find an image, and then publish. It is 
> never the work of one single person.
> 
> You're subscribed to the Promo channels. You must've seen this in action. 
> This 
> is the same for everybody, whether they have direct access to the accounts or 
> not.
> 
> We work like this with Kdenlive, Krita, Akademy organisers, and so on and it 
> works well. We are getting consistently more traction on posts since we 
> stopped improvising.
> 
> I hope the above convinces you to carry on being part of promo

So that's a no then.  Tell these higher-ups that partial blocking of a
proven contributor from completing a specific task when they have 15
years of track record is demotivating and not how things should be
done in KDE.

Jonathan

Re: Twitter access

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 03:31:42PM +0200, Luca Beltrame wrote:
> Il giorno Wed, 18 Jul 2018 14:16:39 +0100
> Jonathan Riddell  ha
> scritto:
> 
> > I'll stop doing KDE promo again then.  KDE shouldn't have unnamed
> > higher powers who block community contributions.
> 
> There are no "unnamed powers" and no one is blocking anything, as far
> as I can see.

That is what I told is the case.  I've not seen anything different and you've 
not said anything different.

Jonathan

Re: Twitter access

[Jonathan Riddell]

I'll stop doing KDE promo again then.  KDE shouldn't have unnamed
higher powers who block community contributions.

Jonathan


On 16 July 2018 at 10:26, Jonathan Riddell  wrote:
> Hi KDE community I'd like to request access to post on the
> @kdecommunity Twitter account.  This is to make announcements of
> Plasma releases, our flagship product.  I already do this on G+ and
> Facebook.  I'm told there are higher powers who have to approve this
> but I've no idea who they are or how to get a message to them, they
> seem to have not received my requests so far.  I've been an active
> contributoir to kde-promo for about 15 years after the only
> contributor.
>
> Jonathan

Twitter access

[Jonathan Riddell]

Hi KDE community I'd like to request access to post on the
@kdecommunity Twitter account.  This is to make announcements of
Plasma releases, our flagship product.  I already do this on G+ and
Facebook.  I'm told there are higher powers who have to approve this
but I've no idea who they are or how to get a message to them, they
seem to have not received my requests so far.  I've been an active
contributoir to kde-promo for about 15 years after the only
contributor.

Jonathan

Re: Neon Pinebook Remix as part of KDE

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 08:45:27PM +0200, Albert Astals Cid wrote:
> El dimarts, 17 d’abril de 2018, a les 15:27:52 CEST, Jonathan Riddell va 
> escriure:
> > Seems nobody is too fussed about this and since KDE already has done
> > this for some years I'll release it
> 
> How urgent is this, can we wait until a BoF at Akademy? I think it's one of 
> those things it's easier to get an agreement on person.

I was hoping to announce it this week.

Jonathan

Re: Neon Pinebook Remix as part of KDE

[Jonathan Riddell]

Seems nobody is too fussed about this and since KDE already has done
this for some years I'll release it

Jonathan


On 11 April 2018 at 14:18, Jonathan Riddell <j...@jriddell.org> wrote:
> Dearest KDE
>
> KDE neon is a project to bring KDE's software to the people by various
> convenient and rapid methods.  Recently we've been working on packages
> for the Pinebook [1].  Pinebook is a < $100 laptop using an ARM
> processor which will open up whole new markets to KDE software and
> computing generally as well as a great proof of concept of plasma on a
> really low profile device.  We have a real chance of having Plasma and
> other free software shipped on a laptop which will enable people to
> access digital freedom who otherwise would be offline.
>
> However it needs a proprietary driver for the graphics to work.  Neon
> is only building free software of course and the installable images as
> well as the Docker images and Snap packages we make are all 100% free
> software.  The packaging for the driver is hosted outside Neon and KDE
> infrastructure but of course it's needed for the images.  At the
> moment the Neon Pinebook Remix's installable images are built on
> Neon's servers but hosted on my private server.
>
> While the manifesto and licencing policy are clear that KDE projects
> must be free software it doesn't say anything about supporting drivers
> or build infrastructure for that software.  Plasma Active has shipped
> images with non-free firmware and drivers on for years
> (https://files.kde.org/plasma/active/4.0/images/nexus7/).
>
> How do we feel about shipping installable images with non-free
> supporting software?  The alternative is to drop and not ship any more
> images for Plasma Active or Mobile etc.
>
> Jonathan
>
> [1] https://www.pine64.org/?page_id=3707

Neon Pinebook Remix as part of KDE

[Jonathan Riddell]

Dearest KDE

KDE neon is a project to bring KDE's software to the people by various
convenient and rapid methods.  Recently we've been working on packages
for the Pinebook [1].  Pinebook is a < $100 laptop using an ARM
processor which will open up whole new markets to KDE software and
computing generally as well as a great proof of concept of plasma on a
really low profile device.  We have a real chance of having Plasma and
other free software shipped on a laptop which will enable people to
access digital freedom who otherwise would be offline.

However it needs a proprietary driver for the graphics to work.  Neon
is only building free software of course and the installable images as
well as the Docker images and Snap packages we make are all 100% free
software.  The packaging for the driver is hosted outside Neon and KDE
infrastructure but of course it's needed for the images.  At the
moment the Neon Pinebook Remix's installable images are built on
Neon's servers but hosted on my private server.

While the manifesto and licencing policy are clear that KDE projects
must be free software it doesn't say anything about supporting drivers
or build infrastructure for that software.  Plasma Active has shipped
images with non-free firmware and drivers on for years
(https://files.kde.org/plasma/active/4.0/images/nexus7/).

How do we feel about shipping installable images with non-free
supporting software?  The alternative is to drop and not ship any more
images for Plasma Active or Mobile etc.

Jonathan

[1] https://www.pine64.org/?page_id=3707

Re: [kde-community] Re: kde.org and Plasma LTS

[Jonathan Riddell]

The image is a large 8 so the whole thing needs changed.  The background behind 
the 8 image would be best to update but I don't suppose anyone is too fussed.  
The 'Plasma 5.8 LTS' text is just text which is changed in a json file.

Jonathan


On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 10:59:52AM -0700, Andy Betts wrote:
> Like I said. Are we ok if we just change the version number and keep the same
> background?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Andy
> 
> 
> On 2/28/2018 10:51:39 AM, Ben Cooksley  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 5:17 AM, Andy Betts wrote:
> > I was approached to work on a banner for the page, but I haven't had the
> > time to make anything. I think that maybe an easy change is to simply
> change
> > the text to show the right version but maybe not change the wallpaper
> behind
> > it. Bushan seemed to have access.
> 
> Access isn't a problem, it's having an image ready to replace the current
> one.
> I've no idea how the current one was produced, so it would be nice if
> someone familiar with that, or an artist, where to put together the
> replacement.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ben
> 
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > On 2/28/2018 9:15:39 AM, Ivan Čukić wrote:
> >
> > I can do it for Plasma if nobody from VDG is available.
> >
> > Ch
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > KDE, ivan.cu...@kde.org, http://cukic.co/
> > gpg key fingerprint: 292F 9B5C 5A1B 2A2F 9CF3 45DF C9C5 77AF 0A37 240A
> 

Re: kde.org and Plasma LTS

[Jonathan Riddell]

It needs an artist to make a new 5.12 banner.  Same for the slimbook.

Jonathan


On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 05:09:48PM +0100, Ivan Čukić wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Can someone (who has the permissions to do so) update www.kde.org -
> the scrolling banner thingie shows Plasma 5.8 LTS instead of 5.12 LTS.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ivan
> 
> -- 
> KDE, ivan.cu...@kde.org, http://cukic.co/
> gpg key fingerprint: 292F 9B5C 5A1B 2A2F 9CF3  45DF C9C5 77AF 0A37 240A