Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On Wednesday, 16 June 2021 17:10:42 BST Kenny Duffus wrote: > On Tuesday, 15 June 2021 14:59:09 BST Kenny Duffus wrote: > > On matrix we have a large number of users and the issues of aliases which > > complicates stuff, so that is why we are choosing to migrate them. Just be > > patient a bit longer > > > > That is now all of the simple ones migrated to libera and some of the bigger > rooms are in progress as they need the bridge admin to link them > > I'm now going to look through the various errors and get the remainder sorted > > Just to note again that if @kenny:kde.org is not in your bridged room we > probably don't know of its existence, so please invite me to your rooms > > Thanks to EMS for all their work helping us > > Hi If you encounter any remaining Libera IRC channels not bridged to Matrix, or rooms still bridged to freenode, please file a sysadmin ticket https://go.kde.org/systickets Please also do this if you are in any KDE IRC channels that are not registered (/msg chanserv info #kde-channel) Thanks -- Kenny (Pronouns: he/him)
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
2021 m. birželio 16 d., trečiadienis 17:10:42 BST Kenny Duffus rašė: > On Tuesday, 15 June 2021 14:59:09 BST Kenny Duffus wrote: > > On matrix we have a large number of users and the issues of aliases which > > complicates stuff, so that is why we are choosing to migrate them. Just be > > patient a bit longer > > > > That is now all of the simple ones migrated to libera and some of the bigger > rooms are in progress as they need the bridge admin to link them > > I'm now going to look through the various errors and get the remainder sorted > > Just to note again that if @kenny:kde.org is not in your bridged room we > probably don't know of its existence, so please invite me to your rooms > > Thanks to EMS for all their work helping us > > Thank you Kenny for looking at this too! Hopefully, we'll soon be able to return back to normal. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On Tuesday, 15 June 2021 14:59:09 BST Kenny Duffus wrote: > On matrix we have a large number of users and the issues of aliases which > complicates stuff, so that is why we are choosing to migrate them. Just be > patient a bit longer > That is now all of the simple ones migrated to libera and some of the bigger rooms are in progress as they need the bridge admin to link them I'm now going to look through the various errors and get the remainder sorted Just to note again that if @kenny:kde.org is not in your bridged room we probably don't know of its existence, so please invite me to your rooms Thanks to EMS for all their work helping us -- Kenny (Pronouns: he/him)
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On Tuesday, 15 June 2021 16:02:47 CEST Christoph Cullmann wrote: > > I think we should be a bit patient and honor the work sysadmins and > others put into this. I really, really, really want my bots back, though... -- https://www.krita.org
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On 2021-06-15 15:59, Kenny Duffus wrote: On Tuesday, 15 June 2021 14:50:51 BST Andrius Štikonas wrote: Given the imposion today, can we not just close old matrix rooms with m.room.tombstone and point them to new rooms linked to Libera? In the short term that might be a bit disruptive because matrix users will have to switch to new rooms. But it we keep waiting too long we might end up in a bigger mess. And at least IRC users showed that they are capable of switching servers, so maybe we shouldn't assume that matrix users are less capable. On matrix we have a large number of users and the issues of aliases which complicates stuff, so that is why we are choosing to migrate them. Just be patient a bit longer On IRC nothing can be done to migrate users which is why they are unfortunately left to move themselves Hi, I think we should be a bit patient and honor the work sysadmins and others put into this. Greetings & thanks for all that work on this pressing issue! Christoph -- Ignorance is bliss... https://cullmann.io | https://kate-editor.org
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On Tuesday, 15 June 2021 14:50:51 BST Andrius Štikonas wrote: > Given the imposion today, can we not just close old matrix rooms with > m.room.tombstone and point them to new rooms linked to Libera? > In the short term that might be a bit disruptive because matrix users will > have to switch to new rooms. But it we > keep waiting too long we might end up in a bigger mess. And at least IRC > users showed that they are capable of > switching servers, so maybe we shouldn't assume that matrix users are less > capable. > On matrix we have a large number of users and the issues of aliases which complicates stuff, so that is why we are choosing to migrate them. Just be patient a bit longer On IRC nothing can be done to migrate users which is why they are unfortunately left to move themselves -- Kenny (Pronouns: he/him)
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
2021 m. birželio 15 d., antradienis 14:25:11 BST Kenny Duffus rašė: > Hi > > We had been trying to have a nice orderly migration from freenode but that > wasn't to be despite all our work as freenode imploded earlier today > > The main problem for our migration was that the majority of our matrix > bridged rooms are "portals" which aren't really meant to ever move > > Element Matrix Services support are working with us to convert the portal > rooms to plumbed rooms which we can then migrate > > Existing plumbed rooms can skip this stage and be unlinked from freenode and > using the integration manager add an irc bridge to libera to them instead > > If you are in a kde matrix room that i'm not please invite me there so that i > definitely know of its existance, I'm @kenny:kde.org > > For people using IRC directly life should be simpler, you can just disconect > from freenode if you haven't and then join the corresponding rooms on Libera > https://libera.chat/guides/connect > > The vast majority of IRC rooms have been created and registered, if you find > any that aren't please let me know (seaLne) > > Thanks > > Hi, Given the imposion today, can we not just close old matrix rooms with m.room.tombstone and point them to new rooms linked to Libera? In the short term that might be a bit disruptive because matrix users will have to switch to new rooms. But it we keep waiting too long we might end up in a bigger mess. And at least IRC users showed that they are capable of switching servers, so maybe we shouldn't assume that matrix users are less capable. Personally, KDE rooms are the only ones I still have to use on Freenode. Andrius signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
Hi We had been trying to have a nice orderly migration from freenode but that wasn't to be despite all our work as freenode imploded earlier today The main problem for our migration was that the majority of our matrix bridged rooms are "portals" which aren't really meant to ever move Element Matrix Services support are working with us to convert the portal rooms to plumbed rooms which we can then migrate Existing plumbed rooms can skip this stage and be unlinked from freenode and using the integration manager add an irc bridge to libera to them instead If you are in a kde matrix room that i'm not please invite me there so that i definitely know of its existance, I'm @kenny:kde.org For people using IRC directly life should be simpler, you can just disconect from freenode if you haven't and then join the corresponding rooms on Libera https://libera.chat/guides/connect The vast majority of IRC rooms have been created and registered, if you find any that aren't please let me know (seaLne) Thanks -- Kenny (Pronouns: he/him)
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
At the moment the "old" network appears to be broken into about 4 pieces. chat.freenode.net and irc.freenode.net point to the "new" network. The "new" network servers have a very low limit for connections per IP address (I don't know the number), and only 20 channels per user. I don't recommend connecting to the "new" network from a shared service such as bnc.kde.org. classic.freenode.net points to the most functional piece of the "old" network. If you wish to remain connected to the "old" network, replacing chat or irc.freenode.net with classic.freenode.net may work for the time being. I don't know for how long, nor how reliable. ~Eli On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 10:43 PM Nicolás Alvarez wrote: > > Freenode has now set up new servers without migrating the > nickserv/chanserv databases, and will likely turn off the old servers > later. You could say freenode has shut down and there is now a new > network under its name. We don't have any registered channels in the > "new network", or even channel topics set. > > Are we going to move to libera.chat already? > > It has been more than three weeks since Andrew Lee took over. I'm > *done* waiting for Matrix to reconfigure the bridge. Leaving it > unbridged entirely is preferred to the current situation. You can't > say that would split the chat community because it's already split > anyway (there's more users in libera.chat KDE channels every day, as > of yesterday irccloud users couldn't use freenode anymore, #kde hasn't > been properly bridged for a long time, etc). > > Just tell me when and I'll switch IrcsomeBot/sKreamer/pursuivant bots > to libera.chat, and update documentation (I already prepared commits > for 30+ repos for this). I can also bring IrcsomeBot into Matrix rooms > temporarily until the proper Matrix appservice is set up. But I will > not accept any more delays caused by Matrix/EMS. Let's get out of > freenode. > > -- > Nicolás
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On Tuesday, 15 June 2021 04:43:25 CEST Nicolás Alvarez wrote: > Freenode has now set up new servers without migrating the > nickserv/chanserv databases, and will likely turn off the old servers > later. You could say freenode has shut down and there is now a new > network under its name. We don't have any registered channels in the > "new network", or even channel topics set. > > Are we going to move to libera.chat already? We have no other choice, I think. Besides, for the Krita community, all relevant discussion is already happening on libera. > > It has been more than three weeks since Andrew Lee took over. I'm > *done* waiting for Matrix to reconfigure the bridge. Leaving it > unbridged entirely is preferred to the current situation. You can't > say that would split the chat community because it's already split > anyway (there's more users in libera.chat KDE channels every day, as > of yesterday irccloud users couldn't use freenode anymore, #kde hasn't > been properly bridged for a long time, etc). > > Just tell me when and I'll switch IrcsomeBot/sKreamer/pursuivant bots > to libera.chat, and update documentation (I already prepared commits > for 30+ repos for this). I can also bring IrcsomeBot into Matrix rooms > temporarily until the proper Matrix appservice is set up. But I will > not accept any more delays caused by Matrix/EMS. Let's get out of > freenode. > Please do! The only reason I'm still on freenode is for skreamer and pursuivant on #krita... -- https://www.krita.org
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On 15/06/2021 04:43, Nicolás Alvarez wrote: Freenode has now set up new servers without migrating the nickserv/chanserv databases, and will likely turn off the old servers later. You could say freenode has shut down and there is now a new network under its name. We don't have any registered channels in the "new network", or even channel topics set. Are we going to move to libera.chat already? It has been more than three weeks since Andrew Lee took over. I'm *done* waiting for Matrix to reconfigure the bridge. Leaving it unbridged entirely is preferred to the current situation. You can't say that would split the chat community because it's already split anyway (there's more users in libera.chat KDE channels every day, as of yesterday irccloud users couldn't use freenode anymore, #kde hasn't been properly bridged for a long time, etc). Just tell me when and I'll switch IrcsomeBot/sKreamer/pursuivant bots to libera.chat, and update documentation (I already prepared commits for 30+ repos for this). I can also bring IrcsomeBot into Matrix rooms temporarily until the proper Matrix appservice is set up. But I will not accept any more delays caused by Matrix/EMS. Let's get out of freenode. FWIW, I had disconnected from freenode two days ago, with the intent to wait for the matrix bridges ...etc on the other, libera, side. Have a good day. -- Ahmad Samir
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
Freenode has now set up new servers without migrating the nickserv/chanserv databases, and will likely turn off the old servers later. You could say freenode has shut down and there is now a new network under its name. We don't have any registered channels in the "new network", or even channel topics set. Are we going to move to libera.chat already? It has been more than three weeks since Andrew Lee took over. I'm *done* waiting for Matrix to reconfigure the bridge. Leaving it unbridged entirely is preferred to the current situation. You can't say that would split the chat community because it's already split anyway (there's more users in libera.chat KDE channels every day, as of yesterday irccloud users couldn't use freenode anymore, #kde hasn't been properly bridged for a long time, etc). Just tell me when and I'll switch IrcsomeBot/sKreamer/pursuivant bots to libera.chat, and update documentation (I already prepared commits for 30+ repos for this). I can also bring IrcsomeBot into Matrix rooms temporarily until the proper Matrix appservice is set up. But I will not accept any more delays caused by Matrix/EMS. Let's get out of freenode. -- Nicolás
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
As an update: last night, new freenode staff seized control over the linux, free software foundation and python channels, banning long term members on the way to do so. https://twitter.com/marklu/status/1403956182524387330 https://twitter.com/fsf/status/1403941542532952067 https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/202106/goodbye_freenode.html The rule that single-# channels are official is no longer in place, and people not endorsed by FSF were granted operator status in the FSF channel. Even though I know that we can't speed up the Matrix migration, I highly recommend we cut ties with freenode as soon as possible, and I expect us to be screwed over during the migration as well, so expect some turbulence. Kind regards, Christian
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On 7 June 2021 14:38:26 BST, Halla Rempt wrote: >On Monday, 7 June 2021 13:23:06 CEST Kenny Duffus wrote: > >> The issue is migrating all the bridged kde matrix rooms (most of which are >> freenode portal rooms) that we use to be instead using libera.chat >> >> While the portal rooms to libera.chat can already be accessed, the bridge is >> only considered to be in a beta state >> >> However we are trying to avoid every single matrix user having to change >> every room they are in and having to manual remove the :kde.org room alias >> and then set it on libera.chat rooms. EMS are working hard on getting that >> ready for us >> >> > >Would it also be possible to get pursuivant and skreamer over? Or should we do >something ourselves to get them into the new channel? > The plan is that after we have migrated to libera on matrix, that libera becomes our new irc home and as such all bots would be moved there with s/freenode.net/libera.chat/ in their configs -- Kenny (Pronouns: he/him)
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On Monday, 7 June 2021 13:23:06 CEST Kenny Duffus wrote: > The issue is migrating all the bridged kde matrix rooms (most of which are > freenode portal rooms) that we use to be instead using libera.chat > > While the portal rooms to libera.chat can already be accessed, the bridge is > only considered to be in a beta state > > However we are trying to avoid every single matrix user having to change > every room they are in and having to manual remove the :kde.org room alias > and then set it on libera.chat rooms. EMS are working hard on getting that > ready for us > > Would it also be possible to get pursuivant and skreamer over? Or should we do something ourselves to get them into the new channel? -- https://www.krita.org
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
Hullo, Last I heard from our favourite Matrix doggo, Half-Shot, the bridge should leave beta state and be ready to be "released" beginning this week. No idea about the EMS state of course, not involved there. Thanks for the work and looking forward to say hi on the Libera side, Christian Am Montag, 7. Juni 2021, 13:23:06 CEST schrieb Kenny Duffus: > On Monday, 7 June 2021 11:02:35 BST Adriaan de Groot wrote: > > On Thursday, 27 May 2021 10:58:00 CEST Adriaan de Groot wrote: > > > On Wednesday, 26 May 2021 11:36:01 CEST Kenny Duffus wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, 26 May 2021 09:56:08 BST Dmitry Kazakov wrote: > > > > > Is there any KDE-wide decision on that? Is there any work done on > > > > > migration > > > > > from freenode to libera? > > > > > > > > Only a coordinated change would be good for our community. This would > > > > obviously be communicated to the community if everything that we need > > > > was > > > > prepared and ready to happen > > > > It **seems** to me that bridging to Libera.Chat is now working normally: I > > have joined #freebsd-desktop:Libera.Chat in Matrix, for instance, and that > > gets me the IRC channel. Some other Libera.Chat channels work too. This > > suggests it's "good enough"? > > The issue is migrating all the bridged kde matrix rooms (most of which are > freenode portal rooms) that we use to be instead using libera.chat > > While the portal rooms to libera.chat can already be accessed, the bridge is > only considered to be in a beta state > > However we are trying to avoid every single matrix user having to change > every room they are in and having to manual remove the :kde.org room alias > and then set it on libera.chat rooms. EMS are working hard on getting that > ready for us
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On Monday, 7 June 2021 11:02:35 BST Adriaan de Groot wrote: > On Thursday, 27 May 2021 10:58:00 CEST Adriaan de Groot wrote: > > On Wednesday, 26 May 2021 11:36:01 CEST Kenny Duffus wrote: > > > On Wednesday, 26 May 2021 09:56:08 BST Dmitry Kazakov wrote: > > > > Is there any KDE-wide decision on that? Is there any work done on > > > > migration > > > > from freenode to libera? > > > > > > Only a coordinated change would be good for our community. This would > > > obviously be communicated to the community if everything that we need was > > > prepared and ready to happen > > It **seems** to me that bridging to Libera.Chat is now working normally: I > have joined #freebsd-desktop:Libera.Chat in Matrix, for instance, and that > gets me the IRC channel. Some other Libera.Chat channels work too. This > suggests it's "good enough"? > The issue is migrating all the bridged kde matrix rooms (most of which are freenode portal rooms) that we use to be instead using libera.chat While the portal rooms to libera.chat can already be accessed, the bridge is only considered to be in a beta state However we are trying to avoid every single matrix user having to change every room they are in and having to manual remove the :kde.org room alias and then set it on libera.chat rooms. EMS are working hard on getting that ready for us -- Kenny (Pronouns: he/him)
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On Thursday, 27 May 2021 10:58:00 CEST Adriaan de Groot wrote: > On Wednesday, 26 May 2021 11:36:01 CEST Kenny Duffus wrote: > > On Wednesday, 26 May 2021 09:56:08 BST Dmitry Kazakov wrote: > > > Is there any KDE-wide decision on that? Is there any work done on > > > migration > > > from freenode to libera? > > > > Only a coordinated change would be good for our community. This would > > obviously be communicated to the community if everything that we need was > > prepared and ready to happen It **seems** to me that bridging to Libera.Chat is now working normally: I have joined #freebsd-desktop:Libera.Chat in Matrix, for instance, and that gets me the IRC channel. Some other Libera.Chat channels work too. This suggests it's "good enough"? [ade] OT: (puts on Calamares hat) For the Calamares project, we've ended up with a bridge-bot hosted by one of the project participants, freenode <-> libera <-> matrix, so while messy the main conversation can be had in Matrix, natively. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On Wednesday, 26 May 2021 11:36:01 CEST Kenny Duffus wrote: > On Wednesday, 26 May 2021 09:56:08 BST Dmitry Kazakov wrote: > > Is there any KDE-wide decision on that? Is there any work done on > > migration > > from freenode to libera? > > Only a coordinated change would be good for our community. This would > obviously be communicated to the community if everything that we need was > prepared and ready to happen The board of KDE e.V. endorses such a coordinated move. (The e.V. exists to support the KDE community; the community doesn't need permission for this, but I thought I'd make it clear that the board discussed it. If there is something specific needed, then the e.V. can help out -- but I think that our group contacts for IRC itself and our IRC friends and Matrix folks for bridging are already on it and "just" need to push the button.) [ade] PS. FreeBSD also announced a wholesale transition to Libera today. That leaves the #kde-freebsd channel in a weird superposition of states :) Channel elders have basically decided to migrate to #freebsd-desktop on Libera. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On Wednesday, 26 May 2021 09:56:08 BST Dmitry Kazakov wrote: > Hi, all! > > Is there any KDE-wide decision on that? Is there any work done on migration > from freenode to libera? I mean, if a KDE-project wants to migrate from > freenode to libera, what should it do? Do that individually or wait until > the whole organisation does that in a bucket? > Hi I am one of KDE's IRC group contacts with both freenode and libera As most of you are aware there are serious repercussions happening to communities and channels that publicly state their intention to move therefore doing that would be a bad idea Only a coordinated change would be good for our community. This would obviously be communicated to the community if everything that we need was prepared and ready to happen -- Kenny (Pronouns: he/him)
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
Dear KDE community, it appears that over night, the now new management of freenode started to revenge-ban former staff from their servers, therefore I am now unable to connect to freenode and connect to / help out with KDE there. They also post heavily cropped private chatlogs on their blog so that they push their views. https://freenode.net/news/for-foss full chat log at the bottom of the mail, since the cropped part was released without me being asked, I have to assume it's fine to release the rest as well. In addition to that, former official channels from projects that moved to a different place were taken over by the new management. https://mastodon.sdf.org/@kline/106299403921451814 https://twitter.com/UndeadDrMcCoy/status/1397400278916386820 I've been asked in a KDE channel by a member on why I suggest moving, so: yeah, this is it. Seizing official channels you do not represent and banning members of the community for no reason other than revenge, even though I am obviously biased, I really think this is the kind of place that FLOSS projects should abandon. On more positive sidenotes: We had a very constructive chat with Matrix folk earlier this week and are now building up stuff to allow briding, so should KDE want to move over, we'd hopefully soon have a Matrix (and thus also Telegram) bridge available. Kind regards and thanks for the decade of support on freenode, Christian --- Full chatlog that got croppedly released by Andrew Lee. As usual, people are free to make up their own opinion if they have the full information, and not just bits and pieces. cat 2021-05-11.log [19:45:43] Hey there, please join #freenode-board -- this is an official message sent in my capacity as the owner of Freenode. Additionally, if you can please use my gpg key and share with me all of the credentials of Freenode. Thank you in advance. Just to be clear, this is an official message from the ownership of Freenode. [21:05:30] Hi Fuchs, do you have plans to comply? This is an official request from the Freenode Board cat 2021-05-25.log [21:15:32] well, good evening, "sole board member and chairman of freenode" [21:15:49] I assume that didn't go exactly as you planned when you unleashed your bloodhounds, and when you called for my resignation [21:16:20] free tip for next time: money might buy you domains or assets, but it will never buy you the right people, it will never buy you true loyality and, most importantly, it will never buy you a community [21:16:49] go and build one, with dedication and hard work. Good luck. [21:17:54] ? [21:19:01] Fuchs, you know very well my support for FOSS has been strong, what happened here, and why. [21:19:16] trivial: [21:19:35] you sent your bloodhound lawyers after a well respected community member, after _you_ misunderstood blog posts and resignation letters [21:19:45] I know christel already corrected you on your gist, shame you never updated that [21:19:57] I assume by now you also know that there never was a "merger" between OFTC and freenode planned [21:20:01] You are very incorrect Fuchs. [21:20:11] Secondly, you sent your mob on me. [21:20:19] and then you tried to throw out respected members of the community, and you replaced them with people that have 0 credibility in the FOSS world, in some cases even a negative one [21:20:21] The same mob you leashed on others and I, now I know I was wrong to, protected you. [21:20:25] I can't believe why you're doing this. [21:20:33] then you really can't be helped, I guess [21:20:36] good luck in your reality [21:20:51] and enjoy the scorched earth and smoking ruins and ashes that you inherited, killer of IRC [21:21:02] Fuchs, you are wrong to speak ill of the new freenode volunteers. [21:21:08] They've done quite a bit for FOSS and are respectable people. [21:21:11] Attack me all you want. [21:21:17] Not the volunteers. Fair? [21:21:39] Oh, I don't attack them. The community already has spoken on them, I'm rather sure, from the logs I have [21:21:46] and I don't attack you either [21:21:52] I explain to you what you seem to not want to understand [21:21:55] But, can you personally refrain from propelling negativity toward the team members? [21:22:15] if you prefer ingorance: go ahead, and watch the rest of the communities, projects and sponsors leave you as well. And keep asking yourself why. [21:22:23] you went after my friends, Andrew [21:22:26] In the meantime, let me try to save freenode. If you want to come back in the future let me know. I can forgive you, honestly. [21:22:32] what I did here was way more friendlynes than you deserve [21:22:43] Thank you for that. [21:22:47] if you don't want it: fine. Good luck, king of the scorched earth that once was freenode. [21:23:00] haha, _you_ forgiving _me_, that's gold [21:23:11] good luck then, I shall leave you alone and go build better. [21:23:27] I do forgive you.
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On Sun, May 23, 2021 at 3:24 AM Nicolás Alvarez wrote: > > El sáb, 22 de may. de 2021 a la(s) 21:17, Aleix Pol (aleix...@kde.org) > escribió: > > > > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 9:57 PM Aleix Pol wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 7:45 PM Martin Flöser wrote: > > > > > > > > Am Mittwoch, 19. Mai 2021, 10:34:26 CEST schrieb Christian: > > > > > Dear KDE community, > > > > > > > > > > KDE has been using the free services of the freenode IRC networks for > > > > > a > > > > > little bit more than two decades, and hopefully happily and > > > > > successfully > > > > > so. > > > > > > > > Thanks for informing us. This sounds horrible and must have been a very > > > > stressful time for all of you staffers. > > > > > > > > > Due to this leakage, Andrew Lee (former PIA/LTM, now shells.com) > > > > > learned of the new situation and asked democratically elected > > > > > freenode volunteers to step down from their position, as seen in the > > > > > logs linked on [4] [5] [6] > > > > > Therefore making the takover attempt and some details public. > > > > > > > > Given that this is driven by shells.com I think the KDE community > > > > should step > > > > up and remove all references to shells.com. Their behavior in this case > > > > goes > > > > clearly against our values. > > > > > > It seems to me that we are jumping to conclusions only based on hearsay. > > > > > > Today at the Board call we talked with Fuchs and Duffus about > > > Freenode. I've reached out to our Shells contact to see what's > > > happening and will be talking to them soon. > > > At this point the connection between this Freenode kerfuffle and > > > Shells is unclear to me, I'd prefer to understand what the situation > > > is before we ban them from our websites because they're somehow > > > related by blood. > > > > > > Aleix > > > > Hi everyone, > > We (Eike and I) had a short discussion with Shells's CEO and it > > doesn't seem like their relationship to freenode is all that tight as > > portrayed. I do not think we should fire them from being our sponsors > > or to try to work with us. > > > > This does not mean though that we should stay on freenode. If you ask > > me, our matrix instance has been solid enough for it to be the > > official way to join. If we bridge to one or another, I'd say it > > largely should follow wherever people are. > > > > This also does not mean that I believe Shells are above anyone else. I > > know they're observing this situation, let's see what they have in > > mind. They should be at Akademy, it's probably a good opportunity to > > discuss. > > > > Aleix > > Could you please clarify: is Andrew Lee the current CEO of Shells and > the person you talked to? We talked to Alex Lee, the CEO. They are siblings. Andrew Lee is an investor in the company. Aleix
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
El sáb, 22 de may. de 2021 a la(s) 21:17, Aleix Pol (aleix...@kde.org) escribió: > > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 9:57 PM Aleix Pol wrote: > > > > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 7:45 PM Martin Flöser wrote: > > > > > > Am Mittwoch, 19. Mai 2021, 10:34:26 CEST schrieb Christian: > > > > Dear KDE community, > > > > > > > > KDE has been using the free services of the freenode IRC networks for a > > > > little bit more than two decades, and hopefully happily and successfully > > > > so. > > > > > > Thanks for informing us. This sounds horrible and must have been a very > > > stressful time for all of you staffers. > > > > > > > Due to this leakage, Andrew Lee (former PIA/LTM, now shells.com) > > > > learned of the new situation and asked democratically elected > > > > freenode volunteers to step down from their position, as seen in the > > > > logs linked on [4] [5] [6] > > > > Therefore making the takover attempt and some details public. > > > > > > Given that this is driven by shells.com I think the KDE community should > > > step > > > up and remove all references to shells.com. Their behavior in this case > > > goes > > > clearly against our values. > > > > It seems to me that we are jumping to conclusions only based on hearsay. > > > > Today at the Board call we talked with Fuchs and Duffus about > > Freenode. I've reached out to our Shells contact to see what's > > happening and will be talking to them soon. > > At this point the connection between this Freenode kerfuffle and > > Shells is unclear to me, I'd prefer to understand what the situation > > is before we ban them from our websites because they're somehow > > related by blood. > > > > Aleix > > Hi everyone, > We (Eike and I) had a short discussion with Shells's CEO and it > doesn't seem like their relationship to freenode is all that tight as > portrayed. I do not think we should fire them from being our sponsors > or to try to work with us. > > This does not mean though that we should stay on freenode. If you ask > me, our matrix instance has been solid enough for it to be the > official way to join. If we bridge to one or another, I'd say it > largely should follow wherever people are. > > This also does not mean that I believe Shells are above anyone else. I > know they're observing this situation, let's see what they have in > mind. They should be at Akademy, it's probably a good opportunity to > discuss. > > Aleix Could you please clarify: is Andrew Lee the current CEO of Shells and the person you talked to? -- Nicolás
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 9:57 PM Aleix Pol wrote: > > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 7:45 PM Martin Flöser wrote: > > > > Am Mittwoch, 19. Mai 2021, 10:34:26 CEST schrieb Christian: > > > Dear KDE community, > > > > > > KDE has been using the free services of the freenode IRC networks for a > > > little bit more than two decades, and hopefully happily and successfully > > > so. > > > > Thanks for informing us. This sounds horrible and must have been a very > > stressful time for all of you staffers. > > > > > Due to this leakage, Andrew Lee (former PIA/LTM, now shells.com) > > > learned of the new situation and asked democratically elected > > > freenode volunteers to step down from their position, as seen in the > > > logs linked on [4] [5] [6] > > > Therefore making the takover attempt and some details public. > > > > Given that this is driven by shells.com I think the KDE community should > > step > > up and remove all references to shells.com. Their behavior in this case goes > > clearly against our values. > > It seems to me that we are jumping to conclusions only based on hearsay. > > Today at the Board call we talked with Fuchs and Duffus about > Freenode. I've reached out to our Shells contact to see what's > happening and will be talking to them soon. > At this point the connection between this Freenode kerfuffle and > Shells is unclear to me, I'd prefer to understand what the situation > is before we ban them from our websites because they're somehow > related by blood. > > Aleix Hi everyone, We (Eike and I) had a short discussion with Shells's CEO and it doesn't seem like their relationship to freenode is all that tight as portrayed. I do not think we should fire them from being our sponsors or to try to work with us. This does not mean though that we should stay on freenode. If you ask me, our matrix instance has been solid enough for it to be the official way to join. If we bridge to one or another, I'd say it largely should follow wherever people are. This also does not mean that I believe Shells are above anyone else. I know they're observing this situation, let's see what they have in mind. They should be at Akademy, it's probably a good opportunity to discuss. Aleix
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 12:58 PM Aleix Pol wrote: > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 7:45 PM Martin Flöser wrote: > > > > Am Mittwoch, 19. Mai 2021, 10:34:26 CEST schrieb Christian: > > > Dear KDE community, > > > > > > KDE has been using the free services of the freenode IRC networks for a > > > little bit more than two decades, and hopefully happily and > successfully > > > so. > > > > Thanks for informing us. This sounds horrible and must have been a very > > stressful time for all of you staffers. > > > > > Due to this leakage, Andrew Lee (former PIA/LTM, now shells.com) > > > learned of the new situation and asked democratically elected > > > freenode volunteers to step down from their position, as seen in the > > > logs linked on [4] [5] [6] > > > Therefore making the takover attempt and some details public. > > > > Given that this is driven by shells.com I think the KDE community > should step > > up and remove all references to shells.com. Their behavior in this case > goes > > clearly against our values. > > It seems to me that we are jumping to conclusions only based on hearsay. > > Today at the Board call we talked with Fuchs and Duffus about > Freenode. I've reached out to our Shells contact to see what's > happening and will be talking to them soon. > At this point the connection between this Freenode kerfuffle and > Shells is unclear to me, I'd prefer to understand what the situation > is before we ban them from our websites because they're somehow > related by blood. > > Aleix > I'm very happy to hear that the Board talked to everyone and reached out to Shells. Having read loads of logs about this, if the Board decided to hand Shells back their contribution, I would give some extra money to help cover that if necessary. The sooner we can leave freenode in peace and good order, in my opinion, the better. I love IRC, and I used to love freenode, but it is sullied now. Valorie <--- speaking only for myself -- http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 7:45 PM Martin Flöser wrote: > > Am Mittwoch, 19. Mai 2021, 10:34:26 CEST schrieb Christian: > > Dear KDE community, > > > > KDE has been using the free services of the freenode IRC networks for a > > little bit more than two decades, and hopefully happily and successfully > > so. > > Thanks for informing us. This sounds horrible and must have been a very > stressful time for all of you staffers. > > > Due to this leakage, Andrew Lee (former PIA/LTM, now shells.com) > > learned of the new situation and asked democratically elected > > freenode volunteers to step down from their position, as seen in the > > logs linked on [4] [5] [6] > > Therefore making the takover attempt and some details public. > > Given that this is driven by shells.com I think the KDE community should step > up and remove all references to shells.com. Their behavior in this case goes > clearly against our values. It seems to me that we are jumping to conclusions only based on hearsay. Today at the Board call we talked with Fuchs and Duffus about Freenode. I've reached out to our Shells contact to see what's happening and will be talking to them soon. At this point the connection between this Freenode kerfuffle and Shells is unclear to me, I'd prefer to understand what the situation is before we ban them from our websites because they're somehow related by blood. Aleix
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On 19/05/2021 20:52, Nicolás Alvarez wrote: El mié, 19 de may. de 2021 a la(s) 14:53, Carl Schwan (c...@carlschwan.eu) escribió: Le mercredi, mai 19, 2021 7:45 PM, Martin Flöser a écrit : Am Mittwoch, 19. Mai 2021, 10:34:26 CEST schrieb Christian: Dear KDE community, KDE has been using the free services of the freenode IRC networks for a little bit more than two decades, and hopefully happily and successfully so. Thanks for informing us. This sounds horrible and must have been a very stressful time for all of you staffers. Due to this leakage, Andrew Lee (former PIA/LTM, now shells.com) learned of the new situation and asked democratically elected freenode volunteers to step down from their position, as seen in the logs linked on [4] [5] [6] Therefore making the takover attempt and some details public. Given that this is driven byshells.com I think the KDE community should step up and remove all references to shells.com. Their behavior in this case goes clearly against our values. I agree and created two merge requests: * https://invent.kde.org/websites/kde-org/-/merge_requests/104 * https://invent.kde.org/websites/neon-kde-org/-/merge_requests/8 I would prefer if it's someone who was involved with setting this up that merges these two MRs. CC Jonathan and Aleix Aren't they sponsors? We can't *just* remove them from the website... Yes, first give them their "sponsoring" (whatever that was) back, then remove them from the website. (Just for the sake of fairness, we haven't heard their side of the story; obviously I am biased, the staffers who have been doing all the heavy lifting for years, their word is backed by years of work... :)). -- Nicolás -- Ahmad Samir
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
El mié, 19 de may. de 2021 a la(s) 14:53, Carl Schwan (c...@carlschwan.eu) escribió: > > Le mercredi, mai 19, 2021 7:45 PM, Martin Flöser a écrit > : > > > Am Mittwoch, 19. Mai 2021, 10:34:26 CEST schrieb Christian: > > > > > Dear KDE community, > > > KDE has been using the free services of the freenode IRC networks for a > > > little bit more than two decades, and hopefully happily and successfully > > > so. > > > > Thanks for informing us. This sounds horrible and must have been a very > > stressful time for all of you staffers. > > > > > Due to this leakage, Andrew Lee (former PIA/LTM, now shells.com) > > > learned of the new situation and asked democratically elected > > > freenode volunteers to step down from their position, as seen in the > > > logs linked on [4] [5] [6] > > > Therefore making the takover attempt and some details public. > > > > Given that this is driven byshells.com I think the KDE community should step > > up and remove all references to shells.com. Their behavior in this case goes > > clearly against our values. > > I agree and created two merge requests: > > * https://invent.kde.org/websites/kde-org/-/merge_requests/104 > * https://invent.kde.org/websites/neon-kde-org/-/merge_requests/8 > > I would prefer if it's someone who was involved with setting this up that > merges > these two MRs. CC Jonathan and Aleix Aren't they sponsors? We can't *just* remove them from the website... -- Nicolás
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On 19 May 2021 18:53:18 BST, Carl Schwan wrote: >Le mercredi, mai 19, 2021 7:45 PM, Martin Flöser a écrit : > >> Given that this is driven byshells.com I think the KDE community should step >> up and remove all references to shells.com. Their behavior in this case goes >> clearly against our values. > >I agree and created two merge requests: > >* https://invent.kde.org/websites/kde-org/-/merge_requests/104 >* https://invent.kde.org/websites/neon-kde-org/-/merge_requests/8 > >I would prefer if it's someone who was involved with setting this up that >merges >these two MRs. CC Jonathan and Aleix > We also have the issue that they sponsored Akademy this year for a small amount -- Kenny (Pronouns: he/him)
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
Le mercredi, mai 19, 2021 7:45 PM, Martin Flöser a écrit : > Am Mittwoch, 19. Mai 2021, 10:34:26 CEST schrieb Christian: > > > Dear KDE community, > > KDE has been using the free services of the freenode IRC networks for a > > little bit more than two decades, and hopefully happily and successfully > > so. > > Thanks for informing us. This sounds horrible and must have been a very > stressful time for all of you staffers. > > > Due to this leakage, Andrew Lee (former PIA/LTM, now shells.com) > > learned of the new situation and asked democratically elected > > freenode volunteers to step down from their position, as seen in the > > logs linked on [4] [5] [6] > > Therefore making the takover attempt and some details public. > > Given that this is driven byshells.com I think the KDE community should step > up and remove all references to shells.com. Their behavior in this case goes > clearly against our values. I agree and created two merge requests: * https://invent.kde.org/websites/kde-org/-/merge_requests/104 * https://invent.kde.org/websites/neon-kde-org/-/merge_requests/8 I would prefer if it's someone who was involved with setting this up that merges these two MRs. CC Jonathan and Aleix Cheers, Carl > > Best regards > Martin Flöser
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
Am Mittwoch, 19. Mai 2021, 10:34:26 CEST schrieb Christian: > Dear KDE community, > > KDE has been using the free services of the freenode IRC networks for a > little bit more than two decades, and hopefully happily and successfully > so. Thanks for informing us. This sounds horrible and must have been a very stressful time for all of you staffers. > Due to this leakage, Andrew Lee (former PIA/LTM, now shells.com) > learned of the new situation and asked democratically elected > freenode volunteers to step down from their position, as seen in the > logs linked on [4] [5] [6] > Therefore making the takover attempt and some details public. Given that this is driven by shells.com I think the KDE community should step up and remove all references to shells.com. Their behavior in this case goes clearly against our values. Best regards Martin Flöser
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
Hi, brief, because in between work calls: thanks for the support. New network is up and running, but currently both our human and our computer ressources are a bit overwhelmed with the huge amount of people migrating, registration and the likes might take a while. I shall give more info later when I have more time at hand. So ar thank you very much ♥ Am Mittwoch, 19. Mai 2021, 14:30:10 CEST schrieb Bhushan Shah: > Hi Christian, > > First of all thank you very much for your work, and transparency to report > this. ❤️ > > On Wednesday, 19 May, 2021 2:04:26 PM IST Christian wrote: > > I tried my very best both to not drag KDE into this situation plus to keep > > the network running as I helped running it for the past 10 years, and to > > keep your data safe in the hands of the volunteers that curated it for > > decades. > > Personally speaking at moment I am not concerned about public development > channels *that much*, but rather private channels including those used by > sysadmin, board and other teams should be first priority. > > We should, either migrate them to new IRC network or migrate them to > different platform and in addition disconnect bridges with other networks > for example, matrix/telegram temporarily. > > And yes, what is recommended by other staffers regarding your personal data/ > password/email also stands. > > > Thanks.
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On 19/05/2021 10:34, Christian wrote: Dear KDE community, KDE has been using the free services of the freenode IRC networks for a little bit more than two decades, and hopefully happily and successfully so. During the last few weeks, freenode was a bit in troubled waters due to what was perceived as a potential serious threat of a takeover of the network Due to that, a good amount of us who have been building and running freenode for the past decades prepared their resignation letters. Some of these got leaked a few days and made it to the hackernews frontpage and various other sites. The leaks included a personal draft of a resignation letter. Due to this leakage, Andrew Lee (former PIA/LTM, now shells.com) learned of the new situation and asked democratically elected freenode volunteers to step down from their position, as seen in the logs linked on [4] [5] [6] Therefore making the takover attempt and some details public. Included in these logs are also logs from third party users that show that associates from Mr Lee, namely the user rdv / nirvana, contacted various people and offered them oper access on the new network for money or revenge. It sickens me to the stomach to see our community that we built in the last 20 years to be lost to this kind of management. As you can imagine, the community was unhappy as well and we got loads of feedback. Thank you very much, this means a lot to us. We've also seen channel ops standing up to the potential new management, see e.g. [7] I tried my very best both to not drag KDE into this situation plus to keep the network running as I helped running it for the past 10 years, and to keep your data safe in the hands of the volunteers that curated it for decades. As you can imagine, this whole mess makes me even less want to spend any of my volunteering time for the potential new management, and I wouldn't want to be responsible for sensitive user data under that management, either. Therefore I resigned from my volunteer position as a freenode staffer, along with some colleagues, and I assume a lot more will follow. I had all my access removed, so that I could not hand it or any data over to a third party, even if I wanted or if I were forced to. My resignation letter, along with some details, can be found at https://fuchsnet.ch/freenode-resign-letter.txt Big thanks to the KDE community for having been with us for more than twenty years, and despite IRCs shortcomings and new solutions available still being part of the freenode IRC network. Kind regards, Christian (commonly known as Fuchs) Thank you (all of you) for all the hard work over the years, IRC has been always there as far back as I can remember :) And, yes, I hope I'll be seeing you soon on the new, really free-we-are-making-sure-of-it-by-backing-it-up-with-a-non-profit-organization, node/network :) Have a very good day, and thanks again. (And I didn't know the background of freenode, however I've always thought that it's as amazing as having Linux as whole, Kernel, glibc, KDE, and IRC :)). I second what Bhushan said, we need to act quickly -- Ahmad Samir
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
Hi Christian, First of all thank you very much for your work, and transparency to report this. ❤️ On Wednesday, 19 May, 2021 2:04:26 PM IST Christian wrote: > I tried my very best both to not drag KDE into this situation plus to keep > the network running as I helped running it for the past 10 years, and to > keep your data safe in the hands of the volunteers that curated it for > decades. Personally speaking at moment I am not concerned about public development channels *that much*, but rather private channels including those used by sysadmin, board and other teams should be first priority. We should, either migrate them to new IRC network or migrate them to different platform and in addition disconnect bridges with other networks for example, matrix/telegram temporarily. And yes, what is recommended by other staffers regarding your personal data/ password/email also stands. Thanks.
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
Hey there, everyone On Wed, 19 May, 2021, 2:08 pm Halla Rempt, wrote: > On Wednesday, 19 May 2021 10:34:26 CEST Christian wrote: > > > > During the last few weeks, freenode was a bit in troubled waters due to > what > > was perceived as a potential serious threat of a takeover of the > network > > Due to that, a good amount of us who have been building and running > freenode > > for the past decades prepared their resignation letters. > > Some of these got leaked a few days and made it to the hackernews > frontpage > > and various other sites. The leaks included a personal draft of a > resignation > > letter. > > Thank you for taking the big step, Christian. > > We've been discussing this in the Krita community as well. We're still > IRC-centric -- matrix doesn't work as well for us. Is there a different > network we should migrate to? > Christian mentioned a new network in the resignation letter The excerpt is mentioned below: - Where will we be going from here? We are founding a new network with the same goals and ambitions: libera.chat. It is backed by a swedish non-profit which lets us hold the name, domain and various other assets to avoid a hostile corporate takeover. It allows us to continue to operate the network as unpaid, neutral volunteers. It allows us to ensure that your personal data does not end up as an asset to some company that could consider monetizing it. You can connect to the new network at `irc.libera.chat`, ssl port 6697 (and the usual clearnet port. Best Piyush Aggarwal
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
Hi Halla, Libera, mentioned in my resignation letter, should open soon. It is ran by now / soon to be ex-freenode staff, under a swedish non profit so this can't happen again, but with the same goals and values as freenode. OFTC would be an other option coming to mind, but I'd love to see you lot on libera, of course. Sorry that this was a bit rushed, one of us really couldn't live with us handing over the data (well, to be honest, none of us can, but he decided to go public before we could) and thus we now are a bit in a rush mode, I'll try to give more updates as soon as I can, I'm currently at work and my time is very limited. Kind regards, Christian
Re: The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
On Wednesday, 19 May 2021 10:34:26 CEST Christian wrote: > > During the last few weeks, freenode was a bit in troubled waters due to what > was perceived as a potential serious threat of a takeover of the network > Due to that, a good amount of us who have been building and running freenode > for the past decades prepared their resignation letters. > Some of these got leaked a few days and made it to the hackernews frontpage > and various other sites. The leaks included a personal draft of a resignation > letter. > We've been discussing this in the Krita community as well. We're still IRC-centric -- matrix doesn't work as well for us. Is there a different network we should migrate to? -- https://www.krita.org
The status of freenode (the IRC network used by KDE)
Dear KDE community, KDE has been using the free services of the freenode IRC networks for a little bit more than two decades, and hopefully happily and successfully so. During the last few weeks, freenode was a bit in troubled waters due to what was perceived as a potential serious threat of a takeover of the network Due to that, a good amount of us who have been building and running freenode for the past decades prepared their resignation letters. Some of these got leaked a few days and made it to the hackernews frontpage and various other sites. The leaks included a personal draft of a resignation letter. Due to this leakage, Andrew Lee (former PIA/LTM, now shells.com) learned of the new situation and asked democratically elected freenode volunteers to step down from their position, as seen in the logs linked on [4] [5] [6] Therefore making the takover attempt and some details public. Included in these logs are also logs from third party users that show that associates from Mr Lee, namely the user rdv / nirvana, contacted various people and offered them oper access on the new network for money or revenge. It sickens me to the stomach to see our community that we built in the last 20 years to be lost to this kind of management. As you can imagine, the community was unhappy as well and we got loads of feedback. Thank you very much, this means a lot to us. We've also seen channel ops standing up to the potential new management, see e.g. [7] I tried my very best both to not drag KDE into this situation plus to keep the network running as I helped running it for the past 10 years, and to keep your data safe in the hands of the volunteers that curated it for decades. As you can imagine, this whole mess makes me even less want to spend any of my volunteering time for the potential new management, and I wouldn't want to be responsible for sensitive user data under that management, either. Therefore I resigned from my volunteer position as a freenode staffer, along with some colleagues, and I assume a lot more will follow. I had all my access removed, so that I could not hand it or any data over to a third party, even if I wanted or if I were forced to. My resignation letter, along with some details, can be found at https://fuchsnet.ch/freenode-resign-letter.txt Big thanks to the KDE community for having been with us for more than twenty years, and despite IRCs shortcomings and new solutions available still being part of the freenode IRC network. Kind regards, Christian (commonly known as Fuchs)
