Re: [kde-community] Updating TechBase Getting_Started pages
On 2015-08-17 19:19, John Layt wrote: On 17 August 2015 at 17:57, Alex Merry alex.me...@kde.org wrote: The general equivalent of this page is https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved - it gives an overview of the areas you can get involved in, and links to pages with more detail about how to get involved in that way. I think it makes a nice jumping-off point, and is good for emphasising that writing code is far from the be-all-and-end-all of KDE. It's very much a community involvement page, though, and techbase needs an equivalent whose selection is more along the lines of I want to write code / I want to use the Frameworks in my own project / I want to deploy KDE software to 20 000 computers. The how to build our software is just one part of that. Co-ordinating the development track on the community wiki and the build / send in patches track on the techbase wiki is going to take some thought, though. You mean like https://techbase.kde.org/Contribute? :-) It may help to have standard names for these sorts of matching pages. Not quite. I think techbase's Contribute page I think actually tries to do the job of community's Get Involved page, but does it significantly less well. My understanding is that Techbase is aimed at a wider audience than just KDE developers (including ISVs and sysadmins), and it could do with a starting point the entire audience - this is neither a contribute nor a get involved page. Actually, it could reasonably be called Getting Started, but then we'd need to pick a different name for the current Getting Started page (which is really aimed at developers). Or it could just be the landing page for Techbase. Alex ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Updating TechBase Getting_Started pages
On Monday 17 of August 2015 09:53:58 John Layt wrote: My aim is to teach the one simplest quickest way to build KF5 for new KDE contributors. There's a few key concepts I want this rewrite to follow: 1) There is only one way to do things, no giving alternatives 2) There is only KF5, no KDE4 3) There is only kdesrc-build, no manual messing around The three build scenarios (= new dev personas) that will be presented will be: 1) Build an app only using packaged Qt and KF5 2) Build Plasma only using packaged Qt and KF5 3) Build Frameworks using packaged Qt All the more detailed or historic information will be removed to other parts of TechBase [2]. New build instructions for external devs just wanting to use a Framework or two should also go here and not Getting_Started. Is it really s/removed/moved/, right? We already have name-spaced historical information around (for example https://techbase.kde.org/Development/Architecture/KDE4 ) so I guess it would be just an addition to them. Ciao -- Luigi ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Updating TechBase Getting_Started pages
On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 8:58 PM, David Edmundson da...@davidedmundson.co.uk wrote: On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 9:53 AM, John Layt jl...@kde.org wrote: Hi, I've started to update the old TechBase Getting_Started pages for the new KF5 world [1]. My aim is to teach the one simplest quickest way to build KF5 for new KDE contributors. There's a few key concepts I want this rewrite to follow: 1) There is only one way to do things, no giving alternatives 2) There is only KF5, no KDE4 3) There is only kdesrc-build, no manual messing around The three build scenarios (= new dev personas) that will be presented will be: 1) Build an app only using packaged Qt and KF5 2) Build Plasma only using packaged Qt and KF5 3) Build Frameworks using packaged Qt All the more detailed or historic information will be removed to other parts of TechBase [2]. New build instructions for external devs just wanting to use a Framework or two should also go here and not Getting_Started. This may result in some default build configs needing to be added to the kdesrc-build repo to make life easier. There may also need to be a couple of simple scripts to set-up kdesrc-build to start with, and to actually run things seeing as kdesrc-build doesn't. The less the new dev has to worry about the better. Thoughts? Is anyone else working on something similar? Just want to say Thanks for taking this task on - it's quite an important one to make our software more accessible to new contributors. We have one for Plasma here. https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Building I'm happy for this to become a redirect and unifying them all. Cheers, Ben John. [1] https://techbase.kde.org/KF5/Getting_Started [2] Probably https://techbase.kde.org/Development/Build? ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Updating TechBase Getting_Started pages
On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 9:53 AM, John Layt jl...@kde.org wrote: Hi, I've started to update the old TechBase Getting_Started pages for the new KF5 world [1]. My aim is to teach the one simplest quickest way to build KF5 for new KDE contributors. There's a few key concepts I want this rewrite to follow: 1) There is only one way to do things, no giving alternatives 2) There is only KF5, no KDE4 3) There is only kdesrc-build, no manual messing around The three build scenarios (= new dev personas) that will be presented will be: 1) Build an app only using packaged Qt and KF5 2) Build Plasma only using packaged Qt and KF5 3) Build Frameworks using packaged Qt All the more detailed or historic information will be removed to other parts of TechBase [2]. New build instructions for external devs just wanting to use a Framework or two should also go here and not Getting_Started. This may result in some default build configs needing to be added to the kdesrc-build repo to make life easier. There may also need to be a couple of simple scripts to set-up kdesrc-build to start with, and to actually run things seeing as kdesrc-build doesn't. The less the new dev has to worry about the better. Thoughts? Is anyone else working on something similar? We have one for Plasma here. https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Building I'm happy for this to become a redirect and unifying them all. John. [1] https://techbase.kde.org/KF5/Getting_Started [2] Probably https://techbase.kde.org/Development/Build? ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Updating TechBase Getting_Started pages
On Mon, August 17, 2015 09:53:58 John Layt wrote: Hi, I've started to update the old TechBase Getting_Started pages for the new KF5 world [1]. My aim is to teach the one simplest quickest way to build KF5 for new KDE contributors. There's a few key concepts I want this rewrite to follow: 1) There is only one way to do things, no giving alternatives 2) There is only KF5, no KDE4 3) There is only kdesrc-build, no manual messing around The three build scenarios (= new dev personas) that will be presented will be: 1) Build an app only using packaged Qt and KF5 2) Build Plasma only using packaged Qt and KF5 3) Build Frameworks using packaged Qt All the more detailed or historic information will be removed to other parts of TechBase [2]. New build instructions for external devs just wanting to use a Framework or two should also go here and not Getting_Started. This may result in some default build configs needing to be added to the kdesrc-build repo to make life easier. There may also need to be a couple of simple scripts to set-up kdesrc-build to start with, and to actually run things seeing as kdesrc-build doesn't. The less the new dev has to worry about the better. Thoughts? Is anyone else working on something similar? This has been sorely needed, and I've never quite had the time to bring kdesrc-buildrc-setup up to speed. But do let me know if there's things I should take *out* of kdesrc-build.git to make it easier, or some kind of feature that's sorely needed. Regards, - Michael Pyne ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Updating TechBase Getting_Started pages
On 17 August 2015 at 10:56, Alex Merry alex.me...@kde.org wrote: At some point we will need to address this extra info as well - there's no point leaving a jumbled mess around. Yes, there lots of more advanced scenarios that we need to provide docs for. There's also a serious need for people to review all of TechBase for KF5 and Git, for example the Application Lifecycle page still refers to SVN! If anyone has time to spare, jump in. I'm wondering though if we shouldn't try organise a week where *everyone* stops coding and writes or cleans-up some docs instead? I think we want a brief next steps at the end of the build instructions - hey, you did the thing, look here for what to do next. The obvious next step is to submit a patch (either claiming a junior job on b.k.o, say, or some pet issue the person already wants to solve). Yeap, linking to Contribute is appropriate here. Most of the stuff is still very draft, but it has had all the unnecessary guff chainsawed out, so now I'm shuffling things around trying to get the right flow before fleshing out the details. John. ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Updating TechBase Getting_Started pages
On 2015-08-17 16:47, Sebastian Kügler wrote: The following doc takes the point of view of a new developer or designer who would like to contribute, it has high-level starting points: https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Mobile/Contributing The general equivalent of this page is https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved - it gives an overview of the areas you can get involved in, and links to pages with more detail about how to get involved in that way. I think it makes a nice jumping-off point, and is good for emphasising that writing code is far from the be-all-and-end-all of KDE. It's very much a community involvement page, though, and techbase needs an equivalent whose selection is more along the lines of I want to write code / I want to use the Frameworks in my own project / I want to deploy KDE software to 20 000 computers. The how to build our software is just one part of that. Co-ordinating the development track on the community wiki and the build / send in patches track on the techbase wiki is going to take some thought, though. Alex ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Updating TechBase Getting_Started pages
El Dilluns, 17 d'agost de 2015, a les 09:53:58, John Layt va escriure: Hi, I've started to update the old TechBase Getting_Started pages for the new KF5 world [1]. My aim is to teach the one simplest quickest way to build KF5 for new KDE contributors. There's a few key concepts I want this rewrite to follow: 1) There is only one way to do things, no giving alternatives 2) There is only KF5, no KDE4 3) There is only kdesrc-build, no manual messing around The three build scenarios (= new dev personas) that will be presented will be: 1) Build an app only using packaged Qt and KF5 2) Build Plasma only using packaged Qt and KF5 3) Build Frameworks using packaged Qt All the more detailed or historic information will be removed to other parts of TechBase [2]. New build instructions for external devs just wanting to use a Framework or two should also go here and not Getting_Started. This may result in some default build configs needing to be added to the kdesrc-build repo to make life easier. There may also need to be a couple of simple scripts to set-up kdesrc-build to start with, and to actually run things seeing as kdesrc-build doesn't. The less the new dev has to worry about the better. Thoughts? Is anyone else working on something similar? I think kdesrc-build is a bit of an overkill for the Build an app only using packaged Qt and KF5 scenario. I find it easier to just clone, cmake and make than having to learn how to use kdesrc-build. Cheers, Albert John. [1] https://techbase.kde.org/KF5/Getting_Started [2] Probably https://techbase.kde.org/Development/Build? ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Updating TechBase Getting_Started pages
Thanks all for whipping the pages into shape :) On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Sebastian Kügler se...@kde.org wrote: On Monday, August 17, 2015 09:53:58 John Layt wrote: I've started to update the old TechBase Getting_Started pages for the new KF5 world [1]. My aim is to teach the one simplest quickest way to build KF5 for new KDE contributors. There's a few key concepts I want this rewrite to follow: 1) There is only one way to do things, no giving alternatives 2) There is only KF5, no KDE4 3) There is only kdesrc-build, no manual messing around The three build scenarios (= new dev personas) that will be presented will be: 1) Build an app only using packaged Qt and KF5 2) Build Plasma only using packaged Qt and KF5 3) Build Frameworks using packaged Qt All the more detailed or historic information will be removed to other parts of TechBase [2]. New build instructions for external devs just wanting to use a Framework or two should also go here and not Getting_Started. This may result in some default build configs needing to be added to the kdesrc-build repo to make life easier. There may also need to be a couple of simple scripts to set-up kdesrc-build to start with, and to actually run things seeing as kdesrc-build doesn't. The less the new dev has to worry about the better. Thoughts? Is anyone else working on something similar? Yes. I'm giving the Plasma Mobile docs some love, but have discovered that also most of the other Plasma documentation for new developers is pretty disjoint and lacking. It certainly doesn't guide someone new well to becoming a productive contributor. I much welcome your initiative and want to pitch in. One of the pages I've written last week may serve as an example of what I have in mind for this kind of pages, it's directed at designers how want to contribute. It gives an overview of principles we use, tools, workflows and communication channels. https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Mobile/Design The following doc takes the point of view of a new developer or designer who would like to contribute, it has high-level starting points: https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Mobile/Contributing I think this documentation should probably not be specific to Plasma Mobile but generally should refer to Plasma or even more generic resources -- without losing level-of-detail. I think giving users a too generic guide can be off-putting for some. Thanks for getting this ball rolling. -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9 ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Updating TechBase Getting_Started pages
On 17 August 2015 at 17:57, Alex Merry alex.me...@kde.org wrote: The general equivalent of this page is https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved - it gives an overview of the areas you can get involved in, and links to pages with more detail about how to get involved in that way. I think it makes a nice jumping-off point, and is good for emphasising that writing code is far from the be-all-and-end-all of KDE. It's very much a community involvement page, though, and techbase needs an equivalent whose selection is more along the lines of I want to write code / I want to use the Frameworks in my own project / I want to deploy KDE software to 20 000 computers. The how to build our software is just one part of that. Co-ordinating the development track on the community wiki and the build / send in patches track on the techbase wiki is going to take some thought, though. You mean like https://techbase.kde.org/Contribute? :-) It may help to have standard names for these sorts of matching pages. But yes, ideally we would have an overall design to follow, complete with personas for target audience, then lock down the pages so no-one can dilute the message (while leaving it open enough to edit as things change!). John. ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Updating TechBase Getting_Started pages
On 17 August 2015 at 10:25, Luigi Toscano luigi.tosc...@tiscali.it wrote: Is it really s/removed/moved/, right? We already have name-spaced historical information around (for example https://techbase.kde.org/Development/Architecture/KDE4 ) so I guess it would be just an addition to them. Yes, one of the joys of the ambiguity/redundancy built into English, here 'removed to' is the same as 'moved to' :-) Yes, was thinking of moving the https://techbase.kde.org/Getting_Started/Build/Historic page (instructions since 2.2.2!) to Development/Build/Historic and adding all the KDE4 stuff to it, leaving the top level Development/Build page to the detailed yet-to-be-written KF5 stuff. John. ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Updating TechBase Getting_Started pages
On 17 August 2015 at 10:56, Alex Merry alex.me...@kde.org wrote: At some point we will need to address this extra info as well - there's no point leaving a jumbled mess around. Yes, there lots of more advanced scenarios that we need to provide docs for. There's also a serious need for people to review all of TechBase for KF5 and Git, for example the Application Lifecycle page still refers to SVN! If anyone has time to spare, jump in. I'm wondering though if we shouldn't try organise a week where *everyone* stops coding and writes or cleans-up some docs instead? I think we want a brief next steps at the end of the build instructions - hey, you did the thing, look here for what to do next. The obvious next step is to submit a patch (either claiming a junior job on b.k.o, say, or some pet issue the person already wants to solve). Yeap, linking to Contribute is appropriate here. Most of the stuff is still very draft, but it has had all the unnecessary guff chainsawed out, so now I'm shuffling things around trying to get the right flow before fleshing out the details. John. ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] Updating TechBase Getting_Started pages
On Monday, August 17, 2015 09:53:58 John Layt wrote: I've started to update the old TechBase Getting_Started pages for the new KF5 world [1]. My aim is to teach the one simplest quickest way to build KF5 for new KDE contributors. There's a few key concepts I want this rewrite to follow: 1) There is only one way to do things, no giving alternatives 2) There is only KF5, no KDE4 3) There is only kdesrc-build, no manual messing around The three build scenarios (= new dev personas) that will be presented will be: 1) Build an app only using packaged Qt and KF5 2) Build Plasma only using packaged Qt and KF5 3) Build Frameworks using packaged Qt All the more detailed or historic information will be removed to other parts of TechBase [2]. New build instructions for external devs just wanting to use a Framework or two should also go here and not Getting_Started. This may result in some default build configs needing to be added to the kdesrc-build repo to make life easier. There may also need to be a couple of simple scripts to set-up kdesrc-build to start with, and to actually run things seeing as kdesrc-build doesn't. The less the new dev has to worry about the better. Thoughts? Is anyone else working on something similar? Yes. I'm giving the Plasma Mobile docs some love, but have discovered that also most of the other Plasma documentation for new developers is pretty disjoint and lacking. It certainly doesn't guide someone new well to becoming a productive contributor. I much welcome your initiative and want to pitch in. One of the pages I've written last week may serve as an example of what I have in mind for this kind of pages, it's directed at designers how want to contribute. It gives an overview of principles we use, tools, workflows and communication channels. https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Mobile/Design The following doc takes the point of view of a new developer or designer who would like to contribute, it has high-level starting points: https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Mobile/Contributing I think this documentation should probably not be specific to Plasma Mobile but generally should refer to Plasma or even more generic resources -- without losing level-of-detail. I think giving users a too generic guide can be off-putting for some. Thanks for getting this ball rolling. -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9 ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
