Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[R.Harish Navnit]

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Kevin Funk  wrote:
> On Thursday, 17 November 2016 00:51:50 CET Sven Brauch wrote:
>> On 11/11/16 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote:
>> > What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus
>> > on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense?
>>
>> +1 actually. There are a few applications on that list which would, in
>> my eyes, be a real loss if they were not maintained any more; I'm
>> especially looking at kcachegrind (I know of no comparable tool and it's
>> really good), maybe kopete. kmag is nice too on occasion but I don't
>> know if it will die with wayland anyways.
>
> +1 on kcachegrind, that would be a real loss. Actually there's an actively
> maintained frameworks branch, maybe we just need to poke Josef? ;)
There's a kf5 branch for kopete too. While I can't say it's seeing
active development at the moment, it has been worked on quite
extensively and looks near complete. For more :
https://marc.info/?l=kopete-devel=147851133511821=2

>
> @Josef: Is the frameworks branch stable? If yes, let's release!
>
>> I'd be in for a sprint (or a few days of a sprint) to port those.
>
> Consider me in as well.
+1 from me too.

Cheers,
Harish

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[Josef Weidendorfer]

Hi all,

sorry for reading the mailing list very rarely nowadays.

On 17.11.2016 10:25, Kevin Funk wrote:

On Thursday, 17 November 2016 00:51:50 CET Sven Brauch wrote:

On 11/11/16 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote:

What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus
on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense?


+1 actually. There are a few applications on that list which would, in
my eyes, be a real loss if they were not maintained any more; I'm
especially looking at kcachegrind (I know of no comparable tool and it's
really good), maybe kopete. kmag is nice too on occasion but I don't
know if it will die with wayland anyways.


+1 on kcachegrind, that would be a real loss. Actually there's an actively
maintained frameworks branch, maybe we just need to poke Josef? ;)

@Josef: Is the frameworks branch stable? If yes, let's release!


For my point of view, the framework branch should be as stable as the master
regarding features. I recently only added minor stuff in master, and always
merged that also into framework (same with some bugs).

Further, the last porting TODOs happened a few weeks ago, about reviving
icon markers in lists (if a call is part of a recursive call cycle).

So yes, I can switch the frameworks branch to become master already today.

Josef






I'd be in for a sprint (or a few days of a sprint) to port those.


Consider me in as well.

Cheers,
Kevin


Greetings,
Sven

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[Kevin Funk]

On Thursday, 17 November 2016 00:51:50 CET Sven Brauch wrote:
> On 11/11/16 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote:
> > What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus
> > on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense?
> 
> +1 actually. There are a few applications on that list which would, in
> my eyes, be a real loss if they were not maintained any more; I'm
> especially looking at kcachegrind (I know of no comparable tool and it's
> really good), maybe kopete. kmag is nice too on occasion but I don't
> know if it will die with wayland anyways.

+1 on kcachegrind, that would be a real loss. Actually there's an actively 
maintained frameworks branch, maybe we just need to poke Josef? ;)

@Josef: Is the frameworks branch stable? If yes, let's release!

> I'd be in for a sprint (or a few days of a sprint) to port those.

Consider me in as well.

Cheers,
Kevin

> Greetings,
> Sven


-- 
Kevin Funk | kf...@kde.org | http://kfunk.org

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Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[Sven Brauch]

On 11/11/16 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote:
> What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus
> on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense?
+1 actually. There are a few applications on that list which would, in
my eyes, be a real loss if they were not maintained any more; I'm
especially looking at kcachegrind (I know of no comparable tool and it's
really good), maybe kopete. kmag is nice too on occasion but I don't
know if it will die with wayland anyways.

I'd be in for a sprint (or a few days of a sprint) to port those.

Greetings,
Sven



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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[Albert Astals Cid]

El dimarts, 15 de novembre de 2016, a les 19:53:43 CET, Ben Cooksley va 
escriure:
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Albert Astals Cid  wrote:
> > El divendres, 11 de novembre de 2016, a les 18:24:42 CET, Christoph Feck
> > va
> > 
> > escriure:
> >> On 11.11.2016 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote:
> >> > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Albert Astals Cid  
wrote:
> >> >> Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last
> >> >> release
> >> >> we
> >> >> accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year
> >> >> until KDE Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list
> >> >> below to KF5.
> >> >> 
> >> >> The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if
> >> >> they
> >> >> have an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5
> >> >> they could move to "extreagear".
> >> 
> >> Will we still release the KDE4 platform for not-yet-ported extragear
> >> applications (Amarok etc.) with 17.12?
> >> 
> >> If we stop releasing it, then we should also move all unported
> >> applications to 'unmaintained'. Any developer willing to port can
> >> surrect it from there.
> > 
> > I personally think that's a bit extreme tbh, if a group of developers are
> > stubbornly fixated in developing for kdelibs4 and not KF5 I don't see why
> > we should not let them do the releases if they want to.
> > 
> > But this seems a bit hypothetical, I *hope* any actively maintained
> > "extregear" app will be KF5-based in a year :)
> 
> From my perspective, i'd like to drop CI support for Qt 4 based code
> as soon as possible. Keeping it alive requires a whole additional set
> of jobs and associated infrastructure, for something which receives
> little development attention (comparatively).
> 
> Chances are we'll have to keep this support alive until Applications
> 17.08 is released, at which point I think we should drop it
> completely, even if Extragear projects continue to use KDE 4 / Qt 4
> based sources.

Fair (unless someone from those KDE 4/Qt 4 projects steps up to provide the 
womanpower/hardwarepower/anypower needed to keep CI for those running).

Cheers,
  Albert

> 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> >   Albert
> 
> Regards,
> Ben

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[Ben Cooksley]

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Albert Astals Cid  wrote:
> El divendres, 11 de novembre de 2016, a les 18:24:42 CET, Christoph Feck va
> escriure:
>> On 11.11.2016 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote:
>> > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Albert Astals Cid  wrote:
>> >> Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release
>> >> we
>> >> accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year
>> >> until KDE Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list
>> >> below to KF5.
>> >>
>> >> The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they
>> >> have an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5
>> >> they could move to "extreagear".
>>
>> Will we still release the KDE4 platform for not-yet-ported extragear
>> applications (Amarok etc.) with 17.12?
>>
>> If we stop releasing it, then we should also move all unported
>> applications to 'unmaintained'. Any developer willing to port can
>> surrect it from there.
>
> I personally think that's a bit extreme tbh, if a group of developers are
> stubbornly fixated in developing for kdelibs4 and not KF5 I don't see why we
> should not let them do the releases if they want to.
>
> But this seems a bit hypothetical, I *hope* any actively maintained
> "extregear" app will be KF5-based in a year :)

>From my perspective, i'd like to drop CI support for Qt 4 based code
as soon as possible. Keeping it alive requires a whole additional set
of jobs and associated infrastructure, for something which receives
little development attention (comparatively).

Chances are we'll have to keep this support alive until Applications
17.08 is released, at which point I think we should drop it
completely, even if Extragear projects continue to use KDE 4 / Qt 4
based sources.

>
> Cheers,
>   Albert

Regards,
Ben

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[Albert Astals Cid]

El divendres, 11 de novembre de 2016, a les 18:24:42 CET, Christoph Feck va 
escriure:
> On 11.11.2016 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Albert Astals Cid  wrote:
> >> Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release
> >> we
> >> accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year
> >> until KDE Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list
> >> below to KF5.
> >> 
> >> The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they
> >> have an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5
> >> they could move to "extreagear".
> 
> Will we still release the KDE4 platform for not-yet-ported extragear
> applications (Amarok etc.) with 17.12?
> 
> If we stop releasing it, then we should also move all unported
> applications to 'unmaintained'. Any developer willing to port can
> surrect it from there.

I personally think that's a bit extreme tbh, if a group of developers are 
stubbornly fixated in developing for kdelibs4 and not KF5 I don't see why we 
should not let them do the releases if they want to.

But this seems a bit hypothetical, I *hope* any actively maintained 
"extregear" app will be KF5-based in a year :)

Cheers,
  Albert

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[Albert Astals Cid]

El divendres, 11 de novembre de 2016, a les 18:24:42 CET, Christoph Feck va 
escriure:
> But we also need someone caring for bugreports/regressions after the
> port. We have some applications ported (e.g. KTorrent) where the
> original developer no longer has time for bug handling, and now the
> regressions pile up.

Does the person that did the port know of those regressions? Maybe the bugs 
were ill-ly assigned to the orgininal maintainer instead of a mailing list and 
its hard for that person to see new bugs coming in.

Cheers,
  Albert

> 
> > Of course, this would only work if we find enough developers that join
> > such an event.
> 
> See above.

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[Albert Astals Cid]

El divendres, 11 de novembre de 2016, a les 16:45:25 CET, Dominik Haumann va 
escriure:
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Albert Astals Cid  wrote:
> > Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release
> > we
> > accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year until
> > KDE Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list below to
> > KF5.
> > 
> > The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they
> > have an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5
> > they could move to "extreagear".
> > 
> > I know lots of you would want to see this happen *now* but remember
> > there's
> > people using those apps so dropping them makes them no good.
> > 
> > Comments?
> 
> I think this is a very good idea and support this.
> 
> However, the list you provided is possibly longer, for instance there
> are applications that are not part of this the Applications release. I
> *know* that this sounds like it's off-topic, but I don't think it is
> for the following reason:
> 
> What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus
> on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense?

I would be all for it, seems like a good a live meeting seems like a good 
forum to share/fix hurdles that may be common to lots of projects.

This needs someone to organize such a sprint though ;)

Cheers,
  Albert

> 
> I'm thinking of apps like Kile or similar that while already ported,
> still don't have a stable release. I'm pretty sure there are many
> more.
> 
> Such an initiative would also show that we don't simply drop old apps,
> instead, we would show that we care to bring along as many apps as we
> can.
> 
> Of course, this would only work if we find enough developers that join
> such an event.
> 
> Greetings
> Dominik

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[Kevin Kofler]

Christoph Feck wrote:
> Will we still release the KDE4 platform for not-yet-ported extragear
> applications (Amarok etc.) with 17.12?
> 
> If we stop releasing it, then we should also move all unported
> applications to 'unmaintained'. Any developer willing to port can
> surrect it from there.

Even if you stop releasing the kdelibs, distros will keep releasing them for 
much longer, some for a lot longer. (E.g., we still also ship kdelibs3 in 
Fedora and I have no plans to let it go.)

Kevin Kofler

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[Luigi Toscano]

On Friday, 11 November 2016 18:24:42 CET Christoph Feck wrote:
> On 11.11.2016 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Albert Astals Cid  wrote:
> >> Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release
> >> we
> >> accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year
> >> until KDE Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list
> >> below to KF5.
> >> 
> >> The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they
> >> have an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5
> >> they could move to "extreagear".
> 
> Will we still release the KDE4 platform for not-yet-ported extragear
> applications (Amarok etc.) with 17.12?
> 
> If we stop releasing it, then we should also move all unported
> applications to 'unmaintained'. Any developer willing to port can
> surrect it from there.

I don't see a direct connection. This discussion is about KDE Applications, 
and while I totally agree on having extragear applications ported as well as 
soon as possible and we should try to see which active applications are still 
unported, forcing them from not being released is a bit too much (i.e. they 
could release bugfixes for kdelibs4 versions, for example).

> 
> >> I know lots of you would want to see this happen *now* but remember
> >> there's
> >> people using those apps so dropping them makes them no good.
> >> 
> >> Comments?
> > 
> > I think this is a very good idea and support this.
> > 
> > However, the list you provided is possibly longer, for instance there
> > are applications that are not part of this the Applications release. I
> > *know* that this sounds like it's off-topic, but I don't think it is
> > for the following reason:
> > 
> > What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus
> > on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense?
> 
> If we had developers with free time for other projects, that time would
> be better spent on helping projects such as KDEPIM, rekonq, or Calligra.
> These are applications several of our users would switch to if they worked.

That would be a huge help.

> 
> > I'm thinking of apps like Kile or similar that while already ported,
> > still don't have a stable release. I'm pretty sure there are many
> > more.
> 
> As far as I know, Kile developer had to wait for the KF5 release of Okular.

That's what I knew as well.

> 
> > Such an initiative would also show that we don't simply drop old apps,
> > instead, we would show that we care to bring along as many apps as we
> > can.
> 
> But we also need someone caring for bugreports/regressions after the
> port. We have some applications ported (e.g. KTorrent) where the
> original developer no longer has time for bug handling, and now the
> regressions pile up.

Yes, afaik one of the reasons why it was not packaged in Debian yet 
(regressions).

-- 
Luigi

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[Christoph Feck]

On 11.11.2016 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote:

On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Albert Astals Cid  wrote:

Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release we
accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year until KDE
Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list below to KF5.

The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they have
an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5 they could
move to "extreagear".


Will we still release the KDE4 platform for not-yet-ported extragear 
applications (Amarok etc.) with 17.12?


If we stop releasing it, then we should also move all unported 
applications to 'unmaintained'. Any developer willing to port can 
surrect it from there.



I know lots of you would want to see this happen *now* but remember there's
people using those apps so dropping them makes them no good.

Comments?


I think this is a very good idea and support this.

However, the list you provided is possibly longer, for instance there
are applications that are not part of this the Applications release. I
*know* that this sounds like it's off-topic, but I don't think it is
for the following reason:

What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus
on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense?


If we had developers with free time for other projects, that time would 
be better spent on helping projects such as KDEPIM, rekonq, or Calligra. 
These are applications several of our users would switch to if they worked.



I'm thinking of apps like Kile or similar that while already ported,
still don't have a stable release. I'm pretty sure there are many
more.


As far as I know, Kile developer had to wait for the KF5 release of Okular.


Such an initiative would also show that we don't simply drop old apps,
instead, we would show that we care to bring along as many apps as we
can.


But we also need someone caring for bugreports/regressions after the 
port. We have some applications ported (e.g. KTorrent) where the 
original developer no longer has time for bug handling, and now the 
regressions pile up.



Of course, this would only work if we find enough developers that join
such an event.


See above.

--
Christoph Feck
https://kdepepo.wordpress.com/
KDE Quality Team

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[Dominik Haumann]

On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Albert Astals Cid  wrote:
> Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release we
> accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year until KDE
> Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list below to KF5.
>
> The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they have
> an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5 they could
> move to "extreagear".
>
> I know lots of you would want to see this happen *now* but remember there's
> people using those apps so dropping them makes them no good.
>
> Comments?

I think this is a very good idea and support this.

However, the list you provided is possibly longer, for instance there
are applications that are not part of this the Applications release. I
*know* that this sounds like it's off-topic, but I don't think it is
for the following reason:

What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus
on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense?

I'm thinking of apps like Kile or similar that while already ported,
still don't have a stable release. I'm pretty sure there are many
more.

Such an initiative would also show that we don't simply drop old apps,
instead, we would show that we care to bring along as many apps as we
can.

Of course, this would only work if we find enough developers that join
such an event.

Greetings
Dominik

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[laurent Montel]

Le jeudi 10 novembre 2016, 23:42:36 CET Albert Astals Cid a écrit :
> Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release we
> accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year until
> KDE Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list below to KF5.
> 
> The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they
> have an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5 they
> could move to "extreagear".
> 
> I know lots of you would want to see this happen *now* but remember there's
> people using those apps so dropping them makes them no good.
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Cheers,
>   Albert
> 

There is a framework branch for theses games:

> kgoldrunner
> kigo
> kolf
> konquest
> kreversi
> ksnakeduel
> kspaceduel
> ksudoku
> kubrick
> lskat
> palapeli

But nobody merged or finished porting.
I made first step but for sure I didn't have time to finish it.

+1 remove them in 17.12 if nobody finishs porting.

-- 
Laurent Montel | laurent.mon...@kdab.com | KDE/Qt Senior Software Engineer 
KDAB (France) S.A.S., a KDAB Group company Tel. France +33 (0)4 90 84 08 53, 
 www.kdab.fr KDAB - The Qt, C++ and OpenGL Experts - Platform-independent 
software solutions 

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Thu, 10 Nov 2016 23:42:36 +0100
Albert Astals Cid  ha scritto:

> Comments?

+1 from me, seems like a good idea.


-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
GPG key ID: A29D259B


pgp8PgrKPav7L.pgp
Description: Firma digitale OpenPGP

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[Albert Astals Cid]

El dijous, 10 de novembre de 2016, a les 23:42:36 CET, Albert Astals Cid va 
escriure:
> Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release we
> accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year until
> KDE Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list below to KF5.
> 
> The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they
> have an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5 they
> could move to "extreagear".
> 
> I know lots of you would want to see this happen *now* but remember there's
> people using those apps so dropping them makes them no good.
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Cheers,
>   Albert
> 
> 
> 
> jovie
> juk
> kaccessible
> kajongg
> kcachegrind
> kde-dev-utils
> kdesdk-kioslaves
> kget
> kgoldrunner
> kigo
> kmag
> kmix (is a weird kdelibs/kf5 dual codebase)
> kmousetool
> kmouth
> kolf
> konquest
> kopete
> kppp
> kremotecontrol
> kreversi
> ksaneplugin
> kscd
> ksirk
> ksnakeduel
> kspaceduel
> ksudoku
> kubrick
> kuser
> lskat
> palapeli
> sweeper
> umbrello (is a weird kdelibs/kf5 dual codebase)
> zeroconf-ioslave

And the 4 kdewebdev apps

Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

[Albert Astals Cid]

Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release we 
accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year until KDE 
Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list below to KF5.

The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they have 
an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5 they could 
move to "extreagear".

I know lots of you would want to see this happen *now* but remember there's 
people using those apps so dropping them makes them no good.

Comments?

Cheers,
  Albert



jovie
juk
kaccessible
kajongg
kcachegrind
kde-dev-utils
kdesdk-kioslaves
kget
kgoldrunner
kigo
kmag
kmix (is a weird kdelibs/kf5 dual codebase)
kmousetool
kmouth
kolf
konquest
kopete
kppp
kremotecontrol
kreversi
ksaneplugin
kscd
ksirk
ksnakeduel
kspaceduel
ksudoku
kubrick
kuser
lskat
palapeli
sweeper
umbrello (is a weird kdelibs/kf5 dual codebase)
zeroconf-ioslave