D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 updated this revision to Diff 48807.
trickyricky26 added a comment.
This revision is now accepted and ready to land.


  - Use a design with the classic Kile design on the cover of the notebook

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 added a comment.


  In D17310#387363 , @mludwig wrote:
  
  > Yes, I like this version better, thanks. What about giving a blue 
foreground to the notebook and use white for the text?
  
  
  That is a great suggestion: Not only will this be closer to the original and 
therefore more recognizable, it even makes more sense semantically as the cover 
of the notebook will say "Kile" instead of the content of one page.
  
  I will work on this and update the revision.

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[Michel Ludwig]

mludwig added a comment.


  In D17310#385180 , @trickyricky26 
wrote:
  
  > Here are some designs that are more faithful to the original:
  >
  > F6520878: kile-faithful.svg.png 
  >  This has almost the same letter design as the original. I adjusted it a 
bit to fit onto the notepad.
  >
  > @mludwig 
  >  What do you think of these designs? Are they close enough to the original 
to be recognizable?
  
  
  Yes, I like this version better, thanks. What about giving a blue foreground 
to the notebook and use white for the text?

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 added a comment.


  Some designs that are more faithful to the original:
  
  F6520878: kile-faithful.svg.png 
  This has almost the same letter design as the original. I adjusted it a bit 
to fit onto the notepad.
  
  F6520887: kile-faithful-alternative.svg.png 

  This one has the letters arranged differently to make better use of the 
available space. 
  However, I think this looks less appealing and it is even less clear that the 
letters make the coherent word "Kile" than the original.
  
  @mludwig 
  What do you think of these designs? Are they close enough to the original to 
be recognizable?

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 planned changes to this revision.

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 added a comment.


  In D17310#384720 , @mludwig wrote:
  
  > Moreover, as you pointed out in https://phabricator.kde.org/T10243, the 
"Don't destroy the app's existing branding" recommendation in the HIG has 
actually been violated by the previous version of this icon already.
  
  
  I have to agree with you here. Do you think a version of the icon with 
identical Text as the original Kile icon (big, horizontal "K", smaller, 
vertical "ile") with the notepad as the background would be enough to not 
differ from the existing branding too much?
  I would like for some of the aspects of the current proposal (notepad, pen) 
to stay as the plain blue circle from the original icon does not integrate too 
well with the Breeze style.
  
  I will update the revision with a version described above (original letters, 
notepad background)

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[Michel Ludwig]

mludwig added a comment.


  In D17310#383350 , @ngraham wrote:
  
  > #kile  folks, are you good with this 
now? If we don't hear back in a week or two, we'll have to assume yes. :)
  
  
  Sorry, but I'm still not a fan of this icon.
  
  Moreover, as you pointed out in https://phabricator.kde.org/T10243, the 
"Don't destroy the app's existing branding" recommendation in the HIG has 
actually been violated by the previous version of this icon already.

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  #kile  folks, are you good with this 
now? If we don't hear back in a week or two, we'll have to assume yes. :)

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham accepted this revision.
ngraham added a comment.


  I like the current version, FWIW. #kile 
 folks ,what do you think?

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[loh tar]

loh.tar added a comment.


  The used traffic cone by VLC is for me also nondescript, but that's their 
icon and therefore we know it.
  My point is only that your new icon should be somehow similar to the stuff 
used by Kile, and not to try to describe what we can do with Kile.
  
  Should I miss that your new icon will be the new Kile icon, I'm sorry for the 
noise :-)

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 edited the summary of this revision.
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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 updated this revision to Diff 47658.
trickyricky26 added a comment.


  - Use Cantor formula design with a bigger pen

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 added a comment.


  In D17310#377145 , @loh.tar wrote:
  
  > For me is these root sign nondescript. When the orig old blue symbol is not 
desired, how about to freshen it up? How? I don't know.
  >  Perhaps Black & White just as all your other offers on these rectangular 
sheet of paper?
  
  
  This icon is supposed to fit that style. 
  However, instead of black lines on a white background which looks more like 
simple text editing, this uses a mathematical formula which is one thing LaTeX 
handles wonderfully and is often used for.
  The pen shows this is an application for editing/generating such files.
  I can't think of a better symbol for LaTeX other than it's "Logo" which is 
just the Text LaTeX.
  
  > Furthermore exist these splash-screen. So maybe in yellow on these fuzzy 
gray paper?
  >  F6477111: kile_splash.png 
  
  This would not work at a small size and imo isn't very visually appealing.

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[loh tar]

loh.tar added a comment.


  For me is these root sign nondescript. When the orig old blue symbol is not 
desired, how about to freshen it up? How? I don't know.
  Perhaps Black & White just as all your other offers on these rectangular 
sheet of paper?
  Furthermore exist these splash-screen. So maybe in yellow on these fuzzy gray 
paper?
  
  F6477111: kile_splash.png 

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 added a comment.


  I have made another design based on @ndavis feedback:
  F6477088: kile-alternative.svg.png 
  
  F6477093: Original root a with pen screenshot.png 

  This uses the root a design from the Cantor icon which makes it pixel perfect 
and more consistent. Also, the pen is a bigger to be more recognizable at 100% 
scaling (this change can be made to the LaTeX font design as well).

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 edited the test plan for this revision.

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 updated this revision to Diff 47591.
trickyricky26 edited the test plan for this revision.
trickyricky26 added a comment.


  - Usr silver pen design to improve contrast

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 edited the test plan for this revision.

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 updated this revision to Diff 47364.
trickyricky26 added a comment.


  - Use the root a design with a pen

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 added a comment.


  I have made the root a and root capital K design with the pen added:
  F6463710: kile-background-alt.svg.png 
  
  F6463712: kile-background-alt2.svg.png 
  
  At 100% scaling:
  F6463715: Root a with pen screenshot.png 

  
  F6463716: Root capital K with pen screenshot.png 

  
  I think the root "K" is clearer, but looks a bit more cramped.

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[Noah Davis]

ndavis added a comment.


  In D17310#372711 , @trickyricky26 
wrote:
  
  > The proposed icons in my dock:
  >
  > F6461602: Root k screenshot.png 
  >
  > F6461601: Root capital K screenshot.png 

  >
  > F6461600: Root a screenshot.png 
  >
  > In D17310#370842 , @mludwig 
wrote:
  >
  > > The biggest issue that I have with the square root icon is that it 
doesn't symbolize enough that it's the icon of an application. To me, it just 
looks like the application of a file type. Some dynamic element is missing, 
like a pencil, for example, to indicate that it's an application for editing 
such files.
  >
  >
  > I have experimented with adding a black pen to the icon:
  >  F6461623: kile-background-alt.svg.png 

  >  Do you think this looks more like an application? It could be added to all 
of the proposed designs.
  
  
  The uppercase K is crisper at 100% size, so I think that's better than the 
lowercase k. The lowercase a still looks the best because of the empty space 
around it.
  
  The idea with the pen is interesting, but there needs to be something to fill 
up that empty space.

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 added a comment.


  The proposed icons in my dock:
  
  F6461602: Root k screenshot.png 
  
  F6461601: Root capital K screenshot.png 
  
  F6461600: Root a screenshot.png 
  
  In D17310#370842 , @mludwig wrote:
  
  > The biggest issue that I have with the square root icon is that it doesn't 
symbolize enough that it's the icon of an application. To me, it just looks 
like the application of a file type. Some dynamic element is missing, like a 
pencil, for example, to indicate that it's an application for editing such 
files.
  
  
  I have experimented with adding a black pen to the icon:
  F6461623: kile-background-alt.svg.png 
  Do you think this looks more like an application? It could be added to all of 
the proposed designs.

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[Noah Davis]

ndavis added a comment.


  In D17310#371697 , @trickyricky26 
wrote:
  
  > With a small "k" in the equation:
  >  F6457785: kile-alternative.svg.png 
  >
  > With a capital "K":
  >  F6457787: kile-alternative2.svg.png 
  >
  > What do you think?
  
  
  Can you show it at 100% size? You should generally show icons at 100% size so 
that they can be seen the way the user will see them.

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 added a comment.


  With a small "k" in the equation:
  F6457785: kile-alternative.svg.png 
  
  With a capital "K":
  F6457787: kile-alternative2.svg.png 

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[Noah Davis]

ndavis added a comment.


  What if instead of using 'a' as a variable in the equation, we used 'k'?

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  Yeah, a stylized "K" on its own might work.

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[Michel Ludwig]

mludwig added a comment.


  In D17310#370758 , @ngraham wrote:
  
  > I would not recommend embedding the app name into the icon itself. The text 
isn't localizable, the icon would become really cramped, and in any event it 
would look weird since no other app does this.
  >
  > For those reasons, our HIG specifically recommends against this: 
https://hig.kde.org/style/icon.html?highlight=icons#general-guidelines
  
  
  Well, it's not really arbitrary text, but the name of the application, so I 
it wouldn't be localized much. Besides, Kile's official icons have contained 
the character "K" or the string "Kile" for over 15 years.
  
  F6453199: kile_big.png  F6453202: 
favicon.ico 
  
  Off the top of my head, another example of such an icon design is the one of 
Evince , which contains a stylized letter 
'e' - I know it's from the competition ;)
  
  Or to some extent, the icon of kcharselect, which I really like.
  
  The biggest issue that I have with the square root icon is that it doesn't 
symbolize enough that it's the icon of an application. To me, it just looks 
like the application of a file type. Some dynamic element is missing, like a 
pencil, for example, to indicate that it's an application for editing such 
files.

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  I would not recommend embedding the app name into the icon itself. The text 
isn't localizable, the icon would become really cramped, and in any event it 
would look weird since no other app does this.
  
  For those reasons, our HIG specifically recommends against this: 
https://hig.kde.org/style/icon.html?highlight=icons#general-guidelines

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 added a comment.


  Thats rather difficult. Adding it to the proposed design looks quite cramped: 
  F6452990: kile-alternative.svg.png 
  
  The only good way to fit "Kile" into that shape is vertical, which looks 
weird and is not very legible:
  F6452992: kile-alternative2.svg.png 
  
  A more elegant way would be just the letter K:
  F6452998: kile-alternative3.svg.png 
  But I think at that point the meaning is less obvious than the root sign imo

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[Michel Ludwig]

mludwig added a comment.


  Hey, thanks for working on this.
  
  I don't mind the change in font style.
  
  However, do you think it's possible to add "Kile" somewhere onto the icon as 
well, preferably quite largely. With this icon, I always find it hard to locate 
Kile in the task manager.

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[Noah Davis]

ndavis added a comment.


  The original design was more consistent with the usual style for text 
characters used in Breeze icons, but I think using actual LaTeX fonts in this 
context works just as well or better for LaTeX users.
  
  +1

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham accepted this revision.
ngraham added a reviewer: Kile.
ngraham added a comment.
This revision is now accepted and ready to land.


  Looks great to me! Let's make sure the Kile folks agree. :)

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D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 edited the summary of this revision.
trickyricky26 edited the test plan for this revision.
trickyricky26 added a reviewer: VDG.

REPOSITORY
  R266 Breeze Icons

REVISION DETAIL
  https://phabricator.kde.org/D17310

To: trickyricky26, #vdg
Cc: kde-frameworks-devel, michaelh, ngraham, bruns

D17310: Improve Kile icon with LaTeX font

[TrickyRicky]

trickyricky26 created this revision.
Herald added a project: Frameworks.
Herald added a subscriber: kde-frameworks-devel.
trickyricky26 requested review of this revision.

REPOSITORY
  R266 Breeze Icons

BRANCH
  improve-kile-icon (branched from master)

REVISION DETAIL
  https://phabricator.kde.org/D17310

AFFECTED FILES
  icons-dark/apps/48/kile.svg
  icons/apps/48/kile.svg

To: trickyricky26
Cc: kde-frameworks-devel, michaelh, ngraham, bruns