D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Ralf Habacker]

habacker added a comment.


  In D17650#380277 , @habacker wrote:
  
  > and try to fix the related issue or check if some else has fixed it.
  
  
  See this https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=380139 as example. The 
different Qt installation layout depending on the platform is a nightmare for 
cross-platform support and ties up resources that are no longer available for 
more important things. Making cross compiled packaged on obs for example is 
mostly a simple copy and replace of specific variables (for example that shared 
files are located in bin dir, not in lib). Converting to the complete different 
Qt 5 path layout results into much more work without any benefit.

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Ralf Habacker]

habacker added a comment.


  In D17650#380272 , @vonreth wrote:
  
  > In kde4 we had 104 unmaintained untested applications.
  >  The 6 now are much better supported, in general we only add applications 
to binary factory if a project asks for it and maintains it for some degree.
  
  
  
  
  In D17650#380266 , @heikobecker 
wrote:
  
  > > no, it is only used in kio internally by klauncher to start io slaves.
  >
  > at least kinit disagrees:
  >
  >   src/klauncher/klauncher.cpp:1021
arg_list.prepend(QLatin1String("kioslave"));
  >
  
  
  Thanks for this pointer, which is one of the major differences to KDE4 and 
makes it sometime hard to follow. In KDE4 kinit  is also located in the same 
repo.

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Ralf Habacker]

habacker added a comment.


  > Why not joining the effort of the people that are working to get those 
applications on Windows,
  
  You did not get the point. If there is anything left over besides the time I 
have to maintain the KDE applications and libraries, I go through this list 
(https://bugs.kde.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=373932&hide_resolved=1) and try 
to fix the related issue.
  The list has already been reduced from 66 to 28.

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Hannah von Reth]

vonreth added a comment.


  In kde4 we had 104 unmaintained untested applications.
  The 6 now are much better supported, in general we only add applications to 
binary factory if a project asks for it and maintain it for some degree.

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Heiko Becker]

heikobecker added a comment.


  > no, it is only used in kio internally by klauncher to start io slaves.
  
  at least kinit disagrees:
  
src/klauncher/klauncher.cpp:1021
arg_list.prepend(QLatin1String("kioslave"));

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Ralf Habacker]

habacker added a comment.


  Yes there are more 'nightly' releases, which is a good thing :-),
  
  but there are only about  6 'release' versions
  
  https://binary-factory.kde.org/view/Windows%2064-bit/ : 5 
  https://binary-factory.kde.org/view/Windows%2032-bit/ : 6
  
  and KMyMoney 'release' version is marked as 'Preview Release' (see 
https://kmymoney.org/)

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Ben Cooksley]

bcooksley added a comment.


  It is much more than 7 - at least on the Binary Factory.
  See https://binary-factory.kde.org/view/Windows%2032-bit/ and 
https://binary-factory.kde.org/view/Windows%2064-bit/

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Luca Beltrame]

lbeltrame added a comment.


  In D17650#380243 , @habacker wrote:
  
  >
  
  
  
  
  >   $ rpm -q -f /usr/i686-w64-mingw32/sys-root/mingw/bin/kioslave.exe 
  >   mingw32-kdelibs4-4.14.60-30.27.noarch
  >   $ rpm -q -f /usr/i686-w64-mingw32/sys-root/mingw/bin/kioslave.exe 
  >   mingw32-kio-5.47.0-11.28.noarch
  
  For the record, those packages aren't shipped officially by the distribution 
you are using.
  
  >> seeing that it's not possible to upstream patches (and there are quite a 
few needed to keep it building) as the git repo is locked down.
  > 
  > It needs someone to take over maintenance of kdelibs.
  
  No. You need to get over the fact that kdelibs4 development is *done* and 
deal, period. Qt4 is EOL, kdelibs4 is EOL. It is time to move on.
  
  > In recent years, of the 104 KDE4 applications for Windows 
(https://community.kde.org/Windows/Releases/4.10.2), only 7 are available for 
KF5 (https://community.kde.org/Windows, minus the stable versions of Umbrello 
and KMymoney that are still on KDE4).  KDE4 will probably stay as a base for a 
while.
  
  Why not joining the effort of the people that are working to get those 
applications on Windows, rather than relying on unmaintained software? By 
distributing Qt 4.x based software we are exposing users to risks, given it is 
completely unmaintained.

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Ralf Habacker]

habacker added a comment.


  > I'd argue that the problem is with your distribution.
  
  It is designed in ECM to install mentioned helpers on windows (which are 
cross compiled packages on obs) in main executable install dir.
  
$ rpm -q -f /usr/i686-w64-mingw32/sys-root/mingw/bin/kioslave.exe 
mingw32-kdelibs4-4.14.60-30.27.noarch
$ rpm -q -f /usr/i686-w64-mingw32/sys-root/mingw/bin/kioslave.exe 
mingw32-kio-5.47.0-11.28.noarch
  
  > Everybody still shipping qt4 is on its own anyway,
  
  Unfortunally yes, for example 
https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/windows%3Amingw%3Awin32/mingw32-kdelibs4,
 but this is unrelated, we are about talking about a patch for KF5, not qt4.
  
  > seeing that it's not possible to upstream patches (and there are quite a 
few needed to keep it building) as the git repo is locked down.
  
  It needs someone to take over maintenance of kdelibs.
  
  > And I'm pretty sure this patch breaks at least one other framework.
  
  no, it is only used in kio internally by klauncher to start io slaves.
  
  > Additionally there might be future maintenance costs,
  
  no, it simply follows the name style other kio executables installed in 
normal 'bin' dir already have e.g kcookiejar5, ktelnetservices5, ktrash5.
  
  > so I see no reason to flog a dead horse and penalize everybody else for it.
  
  In recent years, of the 104 KDE4 applications for Windows 
(https://community.kde.org/Windows/Releases/4.10.2), only 7 are available for 
KF5 (https://community.kde.org/Windows, minus the stable versions of Umbrello 
and KMymoney that are still on KDE4).  KDE4 will probably stay as a base for a 
while.

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Luca Beltrame]

lbeltrame added a comment.


  In D17650#379423 , @heikobecker 
wrote:
  
  > In D17650#379396 , @habacker 
wrote:
  >
  > > I think this is unrelated - this request is to fix an issue with an 
available package on a distribution, so can anyone accept this ?
  >
  >
  > I'd argue that the problem is with your distribution. Everybody still 
shipping qt4 is on its own anyway, seeing that it's not possible to
  
  
  It's not even there. I co-maintain the KF5 and Applications packages in 
openSUSE and I would refuse outright such patches downstream (also, there are 
no bug reports downstream either on these possible issues).  For the rest, what 
@heikobecker said is spot on. We don't want extra maintenance to fix *one* edge 
case.

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Heiko Becker]

heikobecker added a comment.


  In D17650#379396 , @habacker wrote:
  
  > I think this is unrelated - this request is to fix an issue with an 
available package on a distribution, so can anyone accept this ?
  
  
  I'd argue that the problem is with your distribution. Everybody still 
shipping qt4 is on its own anyway, seeing that it's not possible to upstream 
patches (and there are quite a few needed to keep it building) as the git repo 
is locked down. And I'm pretty sure this patch breaks at least one other 
framework. Additionally there might be future maintenance costs, so I see no 
reason to flog a dead horse and penalize everybody else for it.

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Ralf Habacker]

habacker added a comment.


  I think this is unrelated - this request is to fix an issue with an available 
package on a distribution, so can anyone accept this ?

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  In D17650#378760 , @lbeltrame 
wrote:
  
  > > umbrello from binary factory is far from been production ready. Windows 
releases are made from the KDE4 branch. See for example 
https://phabricator.kde.org/T7659
  >
  > I would argue this is more of umbrello's problem to keep on supporting 
kdelibs 4.x and KF5 at the same time than anything else.
  
  
  Agreed. Why not put in the effort to port it fully to KF5 instead?

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Ralf Habacker]

habacker added a comment.


  The conflict is still presence on opensuse and relates to the packages
  
  mingw32-cross-kde4-tools
  mingw32-cross-kf5-tools

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Hannah von Reth]

vonreth added a comment.


  In D17650#378765 , @habacker wrote:
  
  > On a recent opensuse Leap 42.3 or 15.x system there is
  >
  > > /usr/lib64/kde4/libexec/kioslave
  > >  /usr/lib64/libexec/kf5/kioslave
  >
  > because the distribution provides kdelibs4 and kio packages. it only does 
not conflict because the executables are located in different directories 
because they are installed in 'libexecdir'. On Windows libexecdir points to the 
regular bin dir, which results into a conflict. The conflict need to be fixed 
by choosing a different name, as it is done also with many helper tools like 
meinproc4, meinproc5
  >
  > > $ ls /usr/bin/*5 | wc -l
  > > 73
  > >  $ls /usr/bin/*4 | wc -l
  > > 46
  
  
  I don't think I get your point.
  So you want to install KDE4 and KF5 into the same directory on Windows?

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Luca Beltrame]

lbeltrame added a comment.


  In D17650#378765 , @habacker wrote:
  
  > On a recent opensuse Leap 42.3 or 15.x system there is
  >
  > > /usr/lib64/kde4/libexec/kioslave
  > >  /usr/lib64/libexec/kf5/kioslave
  
  
  As a packager of KDE software for said distribution, this is just something 
vestigial due to the kdelibs4.x -> KF5 code, back then when KF5 ported software 
was the minority. At this point in time, such a change does not make sense. If 
you want to push this forward I suggest you find another example aside umbrello 
to use.

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Ralf Habacker]

habacker added a comment.


  On opensuse there are the cross compile helper packages
  
  mingw32-cross-kde4-tools 
  mingw32-cross-kf5-tools
  
  both containing docbookl10nhelper and nothing prevents them from been 
installed in parallel

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Ralf Habacker]

habacker added a comment.


  On a recent opensuse Leap 42.3 or 15.x system there is
  
  > /usr/lib64/kde4/libexec/kioslave
  >  /usr/lib64/libexec/kf5/kioslave
  
  because the distribution provides kdelibs4 and kio packages. it only does not 
conflict because the executables are located in different directories because 
they are installed in 'libexecdir'. On Windows libexecdir points to the regular 
bin dir, which results into a conflict. The conflict need to be fixed by 
choosing a different name, as it is done also with many helper tools like 
meinproc4, meinproc5
  
  > $ ls /usr/bin/*5 | wc -l
  > 73
  >  $ls /usr/bin/*4 | wc -l
  > 46

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Hannah von Reth]

vonreth added a comment.


  I see no reason for this. Having a KF5 and kde 4 in the path sounds like a 
bad idea in general.
  Is this for cygwin or something like that?

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Luca Beltrame]

lbeltrame added a reviewer: vonreth.
lbeltrame added a comment.


  That said, let's hear the opinion of someone else as well.

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Luca Beltrame]

lbeltrame added a comment.


  > umbrello from binary factory is far from been production ready. Windows 
releases are made from the KDE4 branch. See for example 
https://phabricator.kde.org/T7659
  
  I would argue this is more of umbrello's problem to keep on supporting 
kdelibs 4.x and KF5 at the same time than anything else.

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Ralf Habacker]

habacker added a comment.


  In D17650#378747 , @lbeltrame 
wrote:
  
  > At this point, I'd rather give my -1 to this. The 4.x kdelibs stack is 
*long* unmaintained, as well as Qt. What are real, **compelling** reasons to do 
this?
  >
  > EDIT: I know it's for Windows, but with the recent work with the 
binary-factory and what not, there are even less reasons to do so there.
  
  
  umbrello from binary factory is far from been production ready. Windows 
releases are made from the KDE4 branch. See for example 
https://phabricator.kde.org/T7659

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Luca Beltrame]

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Luca Beltrame]

lbeltrame added a comment.


  At this point, I'd rather give my -1 to this. The 4.x kdelibs stack is *long* 
unmaintained, as well as Qt. What are real, **compelling** reasons to do this?

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D17650: Install kioslave as kioslave5 on Windows

[Ralf Habacker]

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REVISION SUMMARY
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