D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham abandoned this revision.
ngraham added a comment.


  Yeah, after living with this for a while I haven't managed to convince myself 
either. Let's focus on fixing the title redundancy and layout issues another 
way.

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D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[David Edmundson]

davidedmundson added a comment.


  kmymoney to pick one example uses KPageWidgetModel without a KPageDialog. No 
idea if the title is shown or not elsewhere, but it shows it's a risky business 
changing it.
  
  Personally I don't understand what problem we're trying to solve. 
  I also think this would really suck if you were in a situation where the list 
view on the left has the active item out of view.

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D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[Björn Feber]

GB_2 accepted this revision.
GB_2 added a comment.


  In D22884#507052 , @ngraham wrote:
  
  > This patch simply adjusts the defaults. If we decide to do this, KCMShell 
can be adjusted to show the title on the page when showing a single KCM. But 
even then it's not really necessary IMO because the KCMShell window's titlebar 
already shows the KCM title.
  
  
  True.
  
  I agree that this makes sense for the reasons given. Let's make the other 
patches.

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D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  In D22884#506943 , 
@hpereiradacosta wrote:
  
  > "KPageWidgetItems live in a multi-page KPageDialog"
  >  Is that really true ? Does it not live also standalone when running e.g. 
kcmshell5 kwindecoration (or any other kcm ?)
  >  If yes, and at least in this case, the title has to stay, because there is 
no side bar.
  
  
  This patch simply adjusts the defaults. If we decide to do this, KCMShell can 
be adjusted to show the title on the page when showing a single KCM. But even 
then it's not really necessary IMO because the KCMShell window's titlebar 
already shows the KCM title.

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D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[Hugo Pereira Da Costa]

hpereiradacosta added a comment.


  "KPageWidgetItems live in a multi-page KPageDialog"
  Is that really true ? Does it not leave also standalone when running e.g. 
kcmshell5 kwindecoration (or any other kcm ?)
  If yes, and at least in this case, the title has to stay, because there is no 
side bar.

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D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  In D22884#505856 , @broulik wrote:
  
  > Note that `KTitleWidget` originally used normal font size for a descriptive 
text. At some point that was then changed to large heading font which prompted 
developers to just (ab)use it as a headline rather than a full description.
  
  
  Probably because using regular-sized text at the top of the window where you 
would expect a heading to be is weird-looking and offends your sense of 
typographic hierarchy. The only way to make it not weird to have a descriptive 
text/subtitle at the top of the window is if directly above it is a real large 
header (which would mirror the header text in the category chooser). Then you'd 
have a standard presentation of "header + subtitle."
  
  But I don't think it makes much sense to show only a subtitle (because it 
would look lost without its header) or only a header (because it's redundant). 
This probably explains why the header region's text has been in a state of flux 
forever. In my experience when some UI thing is just fundamentally wrong, 
designers can't resist poking and prodding it. Once it's finally right, nobody 
wants to touch it anymore again.

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D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[Kai Uwe Broulik]

broulik added a comment.


  Note that `KTitleWidget` originally used normal font size for a descriptive 
text. At some point that was then changed to large heading font which prompted 
developers to just (ab)use it as a headline rather than a full description.

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D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[Noah Davis]

ndavis added a comment.


  In D22884#505718 , @aspotashev 
wrote:
  
  > In D22884#505656 , @ndavis wrote:
  >
  > > Perhaps it is technically a bug, but it seems to me that most of the time 
(at least in all of the KDE programs I have installed), the title is just the 
section name, "Configure (the) [section name]" or "[secion name] Options". In 
Krita, the page titles are sometimes even shorter than the section names. 
However, if the bug is so widespread and the intended way of using a page title 
is so rare, perhaps we should disable page titles by default? It also seems to 
me that if a page needs an additional description that the user can't see until 
they get to the page, perhaps the section name isn't accurate or descriptive 
enough?
  >
  >
  > It's not always "Configure [section name]". You can't have a long section 
name or it would be truncated. When the section name can't describe all the 
aspects of a KCM, its title can be used to elaborate.
  >
  > Examples:
  >
  > - section name "KDE Connect", title "Connect and sync your devices"
  > - section name "Screen Edges", title "Active Screen Corners and Edges"
  
  
  Those would be decent page titles if we actually used them. "Active Screen 
Corners and Edges" is used for a GroupBox title.
  
  F7141400: Screenshot_20190802_110857.png 

  
  F7141402: Screenshot_20190802_110917.png 

  
  > Even if we manage to make section names and titles short and descriptive at 
some point in time, we shouldn't block way for new KCMs that might be too 
complicated to be named with just a couple of words.
  
  Yes, but we have more room than you think. In the System Settings, KCM titles 
barely use half of the width (it scales with font size as well). In application 
configuration windows, we just created a lot more vertical space ( D22083 
 ). I would also argue that complex KCMs 
should not attempt to explain their purpose all at once in the title.
  
  F7141429: Screenshot_20190802_111743.png 

  
  This is not a KCM, but it looks like one. It puts a few long words in the 
title that it couldn't put in its section name (Language Support). However, the 
title is still unnecessary because the Code Completion and Semantic Code 
Highlighting have their own GroupBox titles.

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D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


  On the other hand, when the title differs between what's displayed on the 
page and what's displayed in the sidebar/category switcher, this is not really 
a good thing. So when the title is displayed on the page, we always have one of 
two issues:
  
  - If the two titles are the same, then one of them is redundant
  - If the two titles differ, then this is weird and confusing and inconsistent

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D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[Alexander Potashev]

aspotashev added a comment.


  In D22884#505656 , @ndavis wrote:
  
  > Perhaps it is technically a bug, but it seems to me that most of the time 
(at least in all of the KDE programs I have installed), the title is just the 
section name, "Configure (the) [section name]" or "[secion name] Options". In 
Krita, the page titles are sometimes even shorter than the section names. 
However, if the bug is so widespread and the intended way of using a page title 
is so rare, perhaps we should disable page titles by default? It also seems to 
me that if a page needs an additional description that the user can't see until 
they get to the page, perhaps the section name isn't accurate or descriptive 
enough?
  
  
  It's not always "Configure [section name]". You can't have a long section 
name or it would be truncated. When the section name can't describe all the 
aspects of a KCM, its title can be used to elaborate.
  
  Examples:
  
  - section name "KDE Connect", title "Connect and sync your devices"
  - section name "Screen Edges", title "Active Screen Corners and Edges"
  
  Even if we manage to make section names and titles short and descriptive at 
some point in time, we shouldn't block way for new KCMs that might be too 
complicated to be named with a couple of words.

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D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[Björn Feber]

GB_2 added a comment.


  In D22884#505656 , @ndavis wrote:
  
  > In D22884#505651 , @cfeck wrote:
  >
  > > The header title is usually more descriptive (longer) than the icon name, 
so no.
  >
  >
  > Perhaps it is technically a bug, but it seems to me that most of the time 
(at least in all of the KDE programs I have installed), the title is just the 
section name, "Configure (the) [section name]" or "[secion name] Options". In 
Krita, the page titles are sometimes even shorter than the section names. 
However, if the bug is so widespread and the intended way of using a page title 
is so rare, perhaps we should disable page titles by default? It also seems to 
me that if a page needs an additional description that the user can't see until 
they get to the page, perhaps the section name isn't accurate or descriptive 
enough?
  
  
  I agree.

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D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham edited the summary of this revision.

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D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[Noah Davis]

ndavis added a comment.


  In D22884#505651 , @cfeck wrote:
  
  > The header title is usually more descriptive (longer) than the icon name, 
so no.
  
  
  Perhaps it is a bug, but it seems to me that most of the time (at least in 
all of the KDE programs I have installed), the title is just the section name, 
"Configure (the) [section name]" or "[secion name] Options". In Krita, the page 
titles are sometimes even shorter than the section names. However, if the bug 
is so widespread and the intended way of using a page title is so rare, perhaps 
we should disable page titles by default?

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D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[Christoph Feck]

cfeck requested changes to this revision.
cfeck added a comment.
This revision now requires changes to proceed.


  The header title is usually more descriptive (longer) than the icon name, so 
no.

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D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[Marijo Mustac]

mmustac added a comment.


  I agree that it looks quite strange or at least unusual to me.
  Find myself always sliding to the left do regonize which topic is selected 
currently it seems not self explaining and I would miss the header.

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D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham edited the test plan for this revision.

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D22884: [RFC] Don't show title on page by default

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham created this revision.
ngraham added reviewers: VDG, mart.
Herald added a project: Frameworks.
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ngraham requested review of this revision.

REVISION SUMMARY
  KPageWidgetItems live in a multi-page KPageDialog that already shows the 
current page's
  title in its page selector sidebar/tab bar/whatever. Showing it again on the 
page is
  redundant. There's no toolbar where the title could live like in Kirigami, 
either.
  
  RFC because this is mostly to solicit comments. In principle I think this 
change makes
  sense, but when trying it out, not having a header on the page does feel a 
little bit
  strange to me.
  
  If we do decide to do this, obviouslt this is only one of several required 
patches
  (for Plasma, System Settings, etc)

TEST PLAN
  F7135874: no headers on the page.gif 

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BRANCH
  no-headers-on-the-page-by-default (branched from master)

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AFFECTED FILES
  src/kpagewidgetmodel.cpp

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