Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 03:04:50PM +0200, Thiadmer Riemersma wrote: > > Ucamco refrained from adding the netlist to X2 as there is a simple and > > well-established format adequately describing netlists: IPC-356-A. No problem then :D :D -- Lorenzo Marcantonio Logos Srl

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 8:24 PM, Lorenzo Marcantonio < l.marcanto...@logossrl.com> wrote: > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 07:20:28PM +0200, jp charras wrote: > > AFAIK, Gerber X2 supports netlist (this is one of TODO features in > Kicad). > > Stackup info is already in our X2 files. > > How should X2

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

> What about IPC-2581? Is really open? Do PCB manufacturers support it? The IPC-2581 specification is freely available. I believe it is as open as Gerber is (but I am not a lawyer). I am unaware of any PCB manufacturers that support IPC-2851, apart from the few listed in the website for the

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

On 13-Sep-15 19:03, jp charras wrote: There are still missing X2 features in KiCad (drill files and a few others). Is there a list somewhere of which X2 features are missing? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to :

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

Le 13/09/2015 10:47, Thiadmer Riemersma a écrit : >> What about IPC-2581? Is really open? Do PCB manufacturers support it? > > The IPC-2581 specification is freely available. I believe it is as open as > Gerber is (but I am not a lawyer). > > I am unaware of any PCB manufacturers that support

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 01:47:21PM +0200, nats wrote: > Hello, > I think many of you miss the point of having ODB++ export. It's not really > usefull for PCB manufacturer, you can always go with gerber + IPC netlist. Actually more gerber+excellon... the IPC netlist is for cross-checking the

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

Also its useful for assembly. If we send an odb++ to China, the manufacturer can produce the pcb and populate it with the correct parts, etc. Dan > To: kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > From: n...@more-magic.org > Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 13:47:21 +0200 > Subject: Re: [Kicad-de

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 08:02:36PM +0930, Marco Hess wrote: > Is there a list somewhere of which X2 features are missing? Not 100% sure but we should have missing only the drill plan as gerber and aperture attributes (not sure if we have the info to make that correctly). Also some 'exotic' layer

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 07:20:28PM +0200, jp charras wrote: > AFAIK, Gerber X2 supports netlist (this is one of TODO features in Kicad). > Stackup info is already in our X2 files. How should X2 give a netlist? You can add an attribute to an aperture definition (like 'this is a pad'), but not to

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

I tend to lean towards Chris' thinking on this as well. The primary problem I see with the ODB++ licensing is that at any time, Mentor can take their ball and go home leaving us in a really awkward position. I'm not saying it will happen but it has happened in the past so we should proceed with

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

Le 13/09/2015 19:04, nats a écrit : > > > Le 13/09/2015 17:44, Lorenzo Marcantonio a écrit : >> On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 01:47:21PM +0200, nats wrote: >>> Hello, >>> I think many of you miss the point of having ODB++ export. It's not >>> really >>> usefull for PCB manufacturer, you can always go

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 06:01:30PM +0200, timofonic timofonic wrote: > I see. > > What about IPC-2581? Is really open? Do PCB manufacturers support it? IPC specs are usually open as in 'buy the paper and then you can implement it'; no consortium, no mandatory fee/royalties/whatever. As in

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

out. Thanks Dan From: Chris Pavlina Sent: 12 September 2015 17:14 To: kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++ Yes, while I still strongly dislike the idea of a FOSS project encouraging that sort of licensing behavior, legally speaking

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

I see. What about IPC-2581? Is really open? Do PCB manufacturers support it? http://www.ipc-2581.com If yes: Would be possible to have the KiCad logo here eventually? http://www.ipc-2581.com/index.php/members-on-top On Sep 12, 2015 5:00 PM, "Thiadmer Riemersma"

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

Not GPL-compatible because the restriction would apply to anyone making a derivative of KiCad as well. The only way I can see to do this is a clean-room reverse engineering, which does not appear to be feasible. On Sep 10, 2015 12:48 PM, "Mark Roszko" wrote: > Nope, you

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

On 12.09.2015 18:04, Chris Pavlina wrote: > Not GPL-compatible because the restriction would apply to anyone making > a derivative of KiCad as well. The only way I can see to do this is a > clean-room reverse engineering, which does not appear to be feasible. Use plugins. The ODB++/IPC-2581 ones

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

Yes, while I still strongly dislike the idea of a FOSS project encouraging that sort of licensing behavior, legally speaking that would work. Personally I would rather Mentor get stuffed with that restriction, but your 5 cents are worth more than my two. :D On Sep 12, 2015 12:11 PM, "Tomasz

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

> What about clean room reverse engineering? > I'd advise against this. I have browsed through the ODB+ specification. Clean room reverse engineering is a massive undertaking. ODB+ may have its advantages, but I doubt it is worth the cost of reverse engineering.

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

On 9/10/2015 2:43 AM, Lorenzo Marcantonio wrote: > On Wed, 09 Sep 2015 22:45:08 +0200, > LordBlick wrote: > >> Give the job to Chuck Norris > > Invoking the Roundhouse Kick License Exception ? :D > > It's not the first time Mentor backtracks on licensing terms. The IPC > footprint calculator

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

Nope, you don't have to advertise for Mentor Graphics Here are the terms: 4. PROMOTION. Participant agrees to promote the integration between the ODB++ Format and the Participant Products by: (i) joining the ODB++ Solutions Alliance as a “solutions development partnering” member, via the ODB++

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

On Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:45:26 +0200, Dan Walmsley wrote: > > Hello, > > I have just discovered KiCad. Great work guys. > > Can KiCad export to ODB++? At the moment, no. In future, with great difficulty :P ODB++ is so closed that AFAIK you need to be in the consortium to have the

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

On Wed, 09 Sep 2015 22:45:08 +0200, LordBlick wrote: > Give the job to Chuck Norris Invoking the Roundhouse Kick License Exception ? :D It's not the first time Mentor backtracks on licensing terms. The IPC footprint calculator (pcb-libraries, Valor... it's Mentor behind them :D) was first a

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

Dan, Thank you for giving KiCad a try. The members of the KiCad development team are glad you like it. KiCad does not support ODB++ and probably wont until it becomes an open standard. ODB++ is currently controlled by Mentor Graphics and requires signing and NDA just to get a copy of the

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

Wayne, ODB++ is now "open". http://www.odb-sa.com/resources (You just have to register a simple account that does not require an NDA). But yes the shitty part is this: "Download of the ODB++ Specification does not grant a license to develop software interfaces based on the format specification.

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

Mark, I'm not surprised. Without a license, we would potentially skating on thin legal ice. I'm not comfortable with this kind of dubious licensing arrangement. There may also be licensing compatibility issues with using GPL code to generate a licensed file format. One way to get around the

Re: [Kicad-developers] FW: Export to ODB++

In response to a message written on 09.09.2015, 22:38, from Wayne Stambaugh: Any takers to put their own personal name on that one? Give the job to Chuck Norris -- Best Regards, LordBlick ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers