Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

Hi Franck, This should be superceeded by: https://dev-docs.kicad.org/en/file-formats/ Nick On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 at 19:41, Franck Bourdonnec wrote: > > > About doc, this one seems good but bazaar, no revision, no datestamp ? > > Is it maintained ? > > >

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

It looks like this is a sensitive topic, and I now understand the packagers feel pressure and that they aren't appreciated enough. That wasn't my intention and I didn't want to hint or imply anything negative towards anyone. On the contrary, I know packaging isn't easy (I have looked at the

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

> THE MAIN PROBLEM ARE THE OUTDATED DOCUMENTS! > NOT THE WAY THEY ARE DISTRIBUTED. One reason the documents are outdated is that they are hard to contribute to. They are hard to contribute to in part because they use a toolchain that only works well on Linux, and many of our users who might feel

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

Hi, Am 19.01.22 um 23:18 schrieb Eeli Kaikkonen: I don't understand why this discussion is so difficult to understand. sorry but I don't understand what problem you are trying to solve! There is no problem within the Linux world and their distros to provide packaged documentation, there is

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 06:37:46PM -0500, Steven A. Falco wrote: > On 1/19/22 05:18 PM, Eeli Kaikkonen wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 9:13 PM Steven A. Falco > > wrote: > > > > > It would still be helpful if the doc repo could be tagged at the same > > > point that everything else is

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 02:09:08PM -0500, Jon Evans wrote: > I think the "typical" Linux user wants up-to-date documentation and has > Internet access. The kind who does not have Internet access, or cares a > lot about how the documentation is packaged, is not the "mass market" Linux > user.

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 11:38:02AM -0500, Jon Evans wrote: > Carsten, > > There is no reason to remove the ability to package docs offline, I just > don't think it should be a focus of the project. > The majority of users will be served better by keeping a "rolling release" > online at

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

On 1/19/22 05:18 PM, Eeli Kaikkonen wrote: On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 9:13 PM Steven A. Falco wrote: It would still be helpful if the doc repo could be tagged at the same point that everything else is tagged, because every single Fedora package needs a correct version in its name. For

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 9:13 PM Steven A. Falco wrote: > It would still be helpful if the doc repo could be tagged at the same point > that everything else is tagged, because every single Fedora package needs a > correct version in its name. For example, it would be very strange (perhaps >

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

> Here's a wild idea: why not make the documentation bundle(s) downloadable with the PCM? I'm not sure that would be worth the extra effort, since it wouldn't help the people that can't use online documentation because Internet access is restricted. Yes, you could download a PCM package and then

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 6:38 PM Jon Evans wrote: > > What I would propose to improve the situation is: Here's a wild idea: why not make the documentation bundle(s) downloadable with the PCM? Eeli Kaikkonen ___ Mailing list:

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

On 1/19/22 02:16 PM, Jon Evans wrote: On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 2:12 PM Steven A. Falco mailto:stevenfa...@gmail.com>> wrote: Not to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like the code will be changed so that when someone clicks on the Help menu, they will get the on-line version, if

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 2:12 PM Steven A. Falco wrote: > > Not to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like the code will be > changed so that when someone clicks on the Help menu, they will get the > on-line version, if possible. > And only if the on-line version cannot be accessed, the code

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

On 1/19/22 12:45 PM, Jon Evans wrote: ... snip ... The point I was making is that someone who installs 6.0.1 today should get the latest V6 branch docs (not the latest master branch) ideally. Anyone with internet access should be able to get the latest docs, not the docs at the 6.0.1 tag.

[Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 1:05 PM Carsten Schoenert wrote: > [ I'm on this list, no need to address me dedicated. ] > My email client does this automatically, but if it bothers you I removed it manually :) > > Am 19.01.22 um 18:45 schrieb Jon Evans: > > > I think you misunderstand. We currently

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

About doc, this one seems good but bazaar, no revision, no datestamp ? Is it maintained ?

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

[ I'm on this list, no need to address me dedicated. ] Am 19.01.22 um 18:45 schrieb Jon Evans: I think you misunderstand.  We currently have three rolling releases on docs.kicad.org : V5, V6, and master (nightly). We will continue adding new "rolling release" builds for

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 12:37 PM Carsten Schoenert wrote: > Hello Jon, > > Am 19.01.22 um 17:38 schrieb Jon Evans: > > Carsten, > > > > There is no reason to remove the ability to package docs offline, I just > > don't think it should be a focus of the project. > > here start to disagree. > In

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

Am 19.01.22 um 18:12 schrieb Steven A. Falco: I don't disagree, but really, we could say that everything is always outdated - the code, the libs etc. I have to pick a point in time, and create packages as of that point - currently that point is when a new release is tagged. I.e., it is a

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

Hello Jon, Am 19.01.22 um 17:38 schrieb Jon Evans: Carsten, There is no reason to remove the ability to package docs offline, I just don't think it should be a focus of the project. here start to disagree. In my eyes the offline bundled and created documentation IS a strong service the

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

The way we have split things up now, the nightly docs are not the appropriate pairing for the V6 stable release -- they may diverge over time. I think the vast majority of Linux users also have access to the Internet and so directing them to the most up-to-date docs is the right move. I am not

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

On 1/19/22 12:00 PM, Jon Evans wrote: That just doesn't seem that useful to me.  The fact that Fedora forces this process means that Fedora offline docs will always be outdated. I don't disagree, but really, we could say that everything is always outdated - the code, the libs etc. I have to

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

That just doesn't seem that useful to me. The fact that Fedora forces this process means that Fedora offline docs will always be outdated. If there is no way to work around it for Fedora, I suggest we develop an out-of-band way of delivering offline docs to people (not using the Fedora packaging

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

Right now, the downstream (official) Fedora builds depend on a single tag for all the components - source code, libraries, and docs. I could substitute a SHA for the docs, but I'd have to hard-code the SHA in the "spec file" that controls the build, the same way the tag is hard-coded in the

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

I think we are saying the same thing? The other parts of what I said were to ensure it is downloadable for offline use. When I say "online documentation," I mean: 1. it is html files viewed from a browser 2. the most up-to-date version is online and updated rapidly (instantly) as new

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

Carsten, There is no reason to remove the ability to package docs offline, I just don't think it should be a focus of the project. The majority of users will be served better by keeping a "rolling release" online at docs.kicad.org (with a download button, ideally). > It absolutely doesn't hurt

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

Hello, Am 19.01.22 um 17:21 schrieb Gabriel Staples, ElectricRCAircraftGuy.com: ... In other words, please do make "online documentation" only, as it allows faster updates to it and better consistency, please don't! It absolutely doesn't hurt to build completely offline usable documentation.

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

Oh, ok. I agree with this. I'd be fine with downloading the code separate from the documentation and not packaging them together. The documentation released separately just needs to clearly state which software version it goes with is all. Thanks! Gabriel Staples (sent from my Android) Le mer.

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

I am not saying offline documentation isn't important. I'm saying offline documentation *bundled with a specific KiCad release* isn't important. If someone needs offline documentation, we should make it easy for them to obtain the latest "snapshot" of any given doc branch from our website. Just

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

> I'm not sure that this is a very important feature in today's world. In many parts of the government, and in some research labs, offline documentation is still **very important** because they block nearly all of the internet. But, a healthy compromise would be to have online documentation only,

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

I agree that if the same documentation is taken as a snapshot of the latest version at that time, it must be clearly noted for the user (and maybe together with a note it is likely out of date compared to the online version). I will read the README files and we can go from there. Haven't really

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

The documentation lives in this git repo: https://gitlab.com/kicad/services/kicad-doc The same sources build the version on the website (docs.kicad.org) and the offline docs. If keeping the offline docs is important, I think the next best thing is to insert some extra text in the offline build

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

In my opinion it is great to have fall-back plan such as built in documentation (which is particularly handy if you lost internet connection) but at the moment it is too different from online version which is why I raised this question. Assuming there is a reasonably easy way to export online

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 08:02:51AM +, Martijn Kuipers wrote: > If separate, you could update it more frequently. Just take care it is > understandable for which lkicad version it applies. > > Local docs is where I look first. Version matching should be handled by the packaging system in use,

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

If separate, you could update it more frequently. Just take care it is understandable for which lkicad version it applies. Local docs is where I look first. Just my 2cents. Martijn A quarta, 19/01/2022, 05:44, Ajith Narayanan escreveu: > Greetings! > > KiCad's documentation is in a standard

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

Greetings! KiCad's documentation is in a standard source format (asciidoc) from which HTML/CSS are generated. Currently 'KiCad Help' just kicks off a browser pointing it to the local file(s) (e.g. /usr/share/doc/kicad/help/en/kicad.html). This is quite clean. In other words, KiCad already has a

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

We have decided to update the online documentation in a rolling fashion, meaning that new changes go "live" pretty quickly after being approved and merged. The version that is bundled with the application is a snapshot in time (at the point that software release was made). I think moving to an

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

I don't have view at all, not really a software engineer so may take a bit of spamming with some questions that may be quite obvious to others. My first question is why in the software Help section is so dated and online version much more up to date? It seems you can access online version from

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

I don't personally see the point of spamming the list with back and forth about setting up Git/Gitlab, installing dependencies, etc. But, I am not opposed to it if others don't care. -Jon On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 12:02 PM Marco Ciampa wrote: > On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 09:10:22AM -0500, Jon

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 09:10:22AM -0500, Jon Evans wrote: > Hi Tomas, > > I've been loosely coordinating documentation updates for V6. There are not > very many other people working on it. We'd be happy to have your help. > If you contact me off-list I can help you get set up to make changes

Re: [Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

Hi Tomas, I've been loosely coordinating documentation updates for V6. There are not very many other people working on it. We'd be happy to have your help. If you contact me off-list I can help you get set up to make changes and we can figure out where you'd like to start. Best, Jon On Tue,

[Kicad-developers] V6 documentation

Hi all, I've been using KiCad daily for last couple of years and I think it's great project with a lot of potential. Congratulations on V6 release to everyone involved. I had few challenges with new version and found documentation being rather weak. Is there someone working on it (dedicated) or