Re: [kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad
I've seen this type of error before when the track had no net associated with it. It would be given some generic name (like net3 or something). This name would most definitely not match the net name of the pad you are trying to connect it to, since it too, without a schematic, would be given another generated net name. The DRC would be warning that you have a track from one net too close to the pad of another net. It will never let you connect them. You would have to start from the pad first and probably rename the net for the destination pad to match the first pad. As said before, just use a schematic and be done it it. You can either beat your head against the tool or you can go with its flow and be done already. Greg From: "ma...@ymail.com" To: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 5:34:07 PM Subject: [kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad Thank you for your answer. Maybe I'm thinking too simple, or Old school... Last time I successfully used a CAD was 15 years ago. Back then I could certainly make a PCB with Proteus lite without using ISIS (the schematic editor) nor making a netlist... According to the Kicad FAQ, I should be able to work this way... "5.1 How do I manually route a PCB? Manual routing is quite straight forward. You don't even need to have a schematic." I tried the thinnest trace possible, and even straight (with no angle at all) the error occurs! Axel --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Andy Eskelson wrote: > > The problem is that you are thinking too simple... > > KIcad like most design software is designed to work via netlists and so > on. > > As has been suggested you could simply turn off the design rules checking > that will prevent errors and so on. > > By far the best method is to create a simple sch. in eeschema and then > use that to generate the required netlist. > > It's well worth getting used to creating the circuit then the PCB and so > on. > > The error is just giving you a warning that a track is too close to a pad. > > Tracks and pads have a clearance setting. The normal problkem is that you > cut across the pad at an angle with a track, and you just clip the edge > of the clearance limit. Centre on where the error is and zoom right in, > and you will prob see the problem. > > Use a slightly thinner track, or re-route it to miss the clearance area. > > Like most packages Kicad takes a bit of getting used to, I used a lot > worse! (and not just PCB packages) > > Andy > > > > > On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:39:38 - > "ma...@..." wrote: > > > Hello group! > > This is my first post, so I apologize but I'm afraid I need some help! > > > > I installed Kicad (2010-05-05 BZR 2356) on Ubuntu Lucid64. Fine. As far as >drawing schematics, everything is ok. Now if I try to draw a PCB without >schematic, without netlist, without autorouter... Just a simple one sided >circuit board. I create a new project, open PCB new, place say a DIP-8_300 >component, click on 'add traces and vias', start tracing... and get: > > Type Err(4) trace near pad > > > > What the hell am I doing wrong? > > I can draw a trace without problem as long as I don't get near to the >component (which is not very useful!). It's not component related (same >behavior >with resistances, caps, and so on) > > Component and traces are both on the 'under' side. I tried different traces >sizes, I searched in the manual, in the different tutos, in the web... Nada! I >searched here but the search server is 'busy' please try again later! Plus I >don't know what to enter in the search engine, 'manual routing' return results >such as auto-routing in the kicad manual, and the likes! > > > > I'm quite convinced that this must be something really simple, but I can't >find it! > > > > Thanks for your help > > Axel > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your >question. > > Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of >Kicad. > > Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your >symbols/modules to the kicad library. > > For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the >kicad-devel group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups >Links > > > > > > > Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question. Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad. Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library. For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links
Re: [kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad
> The error occurs only when I try to create a PCB without schematic > nor netlist AND with the DRC active. I don't get any error when the > DRC is OFF, or if I have a schematic and a proper netlist. That's because you can't have DRC without a netlist; please see my last post on this subject for the explanation. Regards, Robert. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3088 - Release Date: 08/22/10 19:35:00
[kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad
I remember doing the poor man's version of this kind of job with a xerox machine, a pair of scissor, and a black waterproof marker! That was before I could afford a scanner! I know a guy who etches hundreds of PCB each month, and he uses nothing but Illustrator. But being an electronic tech, I'd rather spend nights learning Kicad than Inkscape. And the ability to replace an obsolete package by a new one with a simple click is indeed a feature I use often, especially when dealing with 20yo+ stuff... Axel --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Andy Eskelson wrote: > > > Yes, you are correct, DRC NEEDs other info in order to work. > > In regards to your "old" PCB requirement, many years ago when we had a > similar situation in needing to recreate a PCB when the tape masters had > been lost we would put the PCB on the copy camera and take a pic of it. > If the board was rather dense, we would sometimes tweak the enlargement > factor slightly to get the sizes 100% correct. Using the hi contrast > films, we usually got an acceptable image for reproducing the PCB. A > little lightbox work was sometimes needed but not often. > > You could prob. do just as well if not a better job with a good quality > flatbed scanner. > > Andy > > > > > > On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 11:53:13 - > "ma...@..." wrote: > > > The error occurs only when I try to create a PCB without schematic nor > > netlist AND with the DRC active. I don't get any error when the DRC is OFF, > > or if I have a schematic and a proper netlist. > > > > So I guess my problem was that I expected PCBnew to work as a standalone > > app WITH DRC. Obviously it is not the case. Either I respect the workflow > > (schematic>netlist>CVpcb>PCBnew) which I understand and agree to when in > > 'designer' mode, either I have to sacrifice the DRC safety when I want to > > save some time and draw a PCB from scratch. > > > > Thanks to all for helping me clarifying that out! > > > > Axel > > > > > > --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Andy Eskelson wrote: > > > > > > Odd - not much I can add at this point. If you want, you can upload > > > your files (best to put the sch, brd and netlist or as many of them as > > > you have) to the files section and I'll have a look at it. (or email them > > > to me directly) > > > > > > There maybe some other infringement of the rules going on that you have > > > not spotted as yet. > > > > > > > > > You CAN create PCB's manually. You have to turn off all the DRC rules. > > > However you then miss out on the protection that DRC gives you. > > > > > > preferences > general (middle of the window, DRC on/off tickbox) > > > I'm still using the 2009 linux version of Kicad, so in the latest verson > > > the menu locations may have changed. > > > > > > When you use DRC and then add a module, the system will complain, as DRC > > > will not know anything about this component. > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 22:34:07 - > > > "madax@" wrote: > > > > > > > Thank you for your answer. Maybe I'm thinking too simple, or Old > > > > school... Last time I successfully used a CAD was 15 years ago. Back > > > > then I could certainly make a PCB with Proteus lite without using ISIS > > > > (the schematic editor) nor making a netlist... According to the Kicad > > > > FAQ, I should be able to work this way... > > > > "5.1 How do I manually route a PCB? > > > > Manual routing is quite straight forward. You don't even need to have a > > > > schematic." > > > > > > > > I tried the thinnest trace possible, and even straight (with no angle > > > > at all) the error occurs! > > > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Andy Eskelson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The problem is that you are thinking too simple... > > > > > > > > > > KIcad like most design software is designed to work via netlists and > > > > > so > > > > > on. > > > > > > > > > > As has been suggested you could simply turn off the design rules > > > > > checking > > > > > that will prevent errors and so on. > > > > > > > > > > By far the best method is to create a simple sch. in eeschema and then > > > > > use that to generate the required netlist. > > > > > > > > > > It's well worth getting used to creating the circuit then the PCB and > > > > > so > > > > > on. > > > > > > > > > > The error is just giving you a warning that a track is too close to a > > > > > pad. > > > > > > > > > > Tracks and pads have a clearance setting. The normal problkem is that > > > > > you > > > > > cut across the pad at an angle with a track, and you just clip the > > > > > edge > > > > > of the clearance limit. Centre on where the error is and zoom right > > > > > in, > > > > > and you will prob see the problem. > > > > > > > > > > Use a slightly thinner track, or re-route it to miss the clearance > > > > > area. > > > > > > > > > > Like most packages Kicad takes a bit of getting used to, I used a lot >
Re: [kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad
Yes, you are correct, DRC NEEDs other info in order to work. In regards to your "old" PCB requirement, many years ago when we had a similar situation in needing to recreate a PCB when the tape masters had been lost we would put the PCB on the copy camera and take a pic of it. If the board was rather dense, we would sometimes tweak the enlargement factor slightly to get the sizes 100% correct. Using the hi contrast films, we usually got an acceptable image for reproducing the PCB. A little lightbox work was sometimes needed but not often. You could prob. do just as well if not a better job with a good quality flatbed scanner. Andy On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 11:53:13 - "ma...@ymail.com" wrote: > The error occurs only when I try to create a PCB without schematic nor > netlist AND with the DRC active. I don't get any error when the DRC is OFF, > or if I have a schematic and a proper netlist. > > So I guess my problem was that I expected PCBnew to work as a standalone app > WITH DRC. Obviously it is not the case. Either I respect the workflow > (schematic>netlist>CVpcb>PCBnew) which I understand and agree to when in > 'designer' mode, either I have to sacrifice the DRC safety when I want to > save some time and draw a PCB from scratch. > > Thanks to all for helping me clarifying that out! > > Axel > > > --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Andy Eskelson wrote: > > > > Odd - not much I can add at this point. If you want, you can upload > > your files (best to put the sch, brd and netlist or as many of them as > > you have) to the files section and I'll have a look at it. (or email them > > to me directly) > > > > There maybe some other infringement of the rules going on that you have > > not spotted as yet. > > > > > > You CAN create PCB's manually. You have to turn off all the DRC rules. > > However you then miss out on the protection that DRC gives you. > > > > preferences > general (middle of the window, DRC on/off tickbox) > > I'm still using the 2009 linux version of Kicad, so in the latest verson > > the menu locations may have changed. > > > > When you use DRC and then add a module, the system will complain, as DRC > > will not know anything about this component. > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 22:34:07 - > > "ma...@..." wrote: > > > > > Thank you for your answer. Maybe I'm thinking too simple, or Old > > > school... Last time I successfully used a CAD was 15 years ago. Back then > > > I could certainly make a PCB with Proteus lite without using ISIS (the > > > schematic editor) nor making a netlist... According to the Kicad FAQ, I > > > should be able to work this way... > > > "5.1 How do I manually route a PCB? > > > Manual routing is quite straight forward. You don't even need to have a > > > schematic." > > > > > > I tried the thinnest trace possible, and even straight (with no angle at > > > all) the error occurs! > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Andy Eskelson wrote: > > > > > > > > The problem is that you are thinking too simple... > > > > > > > > KIcad like most design software is designed to work via netlists and so > > > > on. > > > > > > > > As has been suggested you could simply turn off the design rules > > > > checking > > > > that will prevent errors and so on. > > > > > > > > By far the best method is to create a simple sch. in eeschema and then > > > > use that to generate the required netlist. > > > > > > > > It's well worth getting used to creating the circuit then the PCB and so > > > > on. > > > > > > > > The error is just giving you a warning that a track is too close to a > > > > pad. > > > > > > > > Tracks and pads have a clearance setting. The normal problkem is that > > > > you > > > > cut across the pad at an angle with a track, and you just clip the edge > > > > of the clearance limit. Centre on where the error is and zoom right in, > > > > and you will prob see the problem. > > > > > > > > Use a slightly thinner track, or re-route it to miss the clearance area. > > > > > > > > Like most packages Kicad takes a bit of getting used to, I used a lot > > > > worse! (and not just PCB packages) > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:39:38 - > > > > "madax@" wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello group! > > > > > This is my first post, so I apologize but I'm afraid I need some help! > > > > > > > > > > I installed Kicad (2010-05-05 BZR 2356) on Ubuntu Lucid64. Fine. As > > > > > far as drawing schematics, everything is ok. Now if I try to draw a > > > > > PCB without schematic, without netlist, without autorouter... Just a > > > > > simple one sided circuit board. I create a new project, open PCB new, > > > > > place say a DIP-8_300 component, click on 'add traces and vias', > > > > > start tracing... and get: > > > > > Type Err(4) trace near pad > > > > > > > > > > What the hell am I doing wrong? > > > > > I can draw a trac
[kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad
The error occurs only when I try to create a PCB without schematic nor netlist AND with the DRC active. I don't get any error when the DRC is OFF, or if I have a schematic and a proper netlist. So I guess my problem was that I expected PCBnew to work as a standalone app WITH DRC. Obviously it is not the case. Either I respect the workflow (schematic>netlist>CVpcb>PCBnew) which I understand and agree to when in 'designer' mode, either I have to sacrifice the DRC safety when I want to save some time and draw a PCB from scratch. Thanks to all for helping me clarifying that out! Axel --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Andy Eskelson wrote: > > Odd - not much I can add at this point. If you want, you can upload > your files (best to put the sch, brd and netlist or as many of them as > you have) to the files section and I'll have a look at it. (or email them > to me directly) > > There maybe some other infringement of the rules going on that you have > not spotted as yet. > > > You CAN create PCB's manually. You have to turn off all the DRC rules. > However you then miss out on the protection that DRC gives you. > > preferences > general (middle of the window, DRC on/off tickbox) > I'm still using the 2009 linux version of Kicad, so in the latest verson > the menu locations may have changed. > > When you use DRC and then add a module, the system will complain, as DRC > will not know anything about this component. > > > Andy > > > On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 22:34:07 - > "ma...@..." wrote: > > > Thank you for your answer. Maybe I'm thinking too simple, or Old school... > > Last time I successfully used a CAD was 15 years ago. Back then I could > > certainly make a PCB with Proteus lite without using ISIS (the schematic > > editor) nor making a netlist... According to the Kicad FAQ, I should be > > able to work this way... > > "5.1 How do I manually route a PCB? > > Manual routing is quite straight forward. You don't even need to have a > > schematic." > > > > I tried the thinnest trace possible, and even straight (with no angle at > > all) the error occurs! > > > > Axel > > > > --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Andy Eskelson wrote: > > > > > > The problem is that you are thinking too simple... > > > > > > KIcad like most design software is designed to work via netlists and so > > > on. > > > > > > As has been suggested you could simply turn off the design rules checking > > > that will prevent errors and so on. > > > > > > By far the best method is to create a simple sch. in eeschema and then > > > use that to generate the required netlist. > > > > > > It's well worth getting used to creating the circuit then the PCB and so > > > on. > > > > > > The error is just giving you a warning that a track is too close to a pad. > > > > > > Tracks and pads have a clearance setting. The normal problkem is that you > > > cut across the pad at an angle with a track, and you just clip the edge > > > of the clearance limit. Centre on where the error is and zoom right in, > > > and you will prob see the problem. > > > > > > Use a slightly thinner track, or re-route it to miss the clearance area. > > > > > > Like most packages Kicad takes a bit of getting used to, I used a lot > > > worse! (and not just PCB packages) > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:39:38 - > > > "madax@" wrote: > > > > > > > Hello group! > > > > This is my first post, so I apologize but I'm afraid I need some help! > > > > > > > > I installed Kicad (2010-05-05 BZR 2356) on Ubuntu Lucid64. Fine. As far > > > > as drawing schematics, everything is ok. Now if I try to draw a PCB > > > > without schematic, without netlist, without autorouter... Just a simple > > > > one sided circuit board. I create a new project, open PCB new, place > > > > say a DIP-8_300 component, click on 'add traces and vias', start > > > > tracing... and get: > > > > Type Err(4) trace near pad > > > > > > > > What the hell am I doing wrong? > > > > I can draw a trace without problem as long as I don't get near to the > > > > component (which is not very useful!). It's not component related (same > > > > behavior with resistances, caps, and so on) > > > > Component and traces are both on the 'under' side. I tried different > > > > traces sizes, I searched in the manual, in the different tutos, in the > > > > web... Nada! I searched here but the search server is 'busy' please try > > > > again later! Plus I don't know what to enter in the search engine, > > > > 'manual routing' return results such as auto-routing in the kicad > > > > manual, and the likes! > > > > > > > > I'm quite convinced that this must be something really simple, but I > > > > can't find it! > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting > > > > your question.
Re: [kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad
Odd - not much I can add at this point. If you want, you can upload your files (best to put the sch, brd and netlist or as many of them as you have) to the files section and I'll have a look at it. (or email them to me directly) There maybe some other infringement of the rules going on that you have not spotted as yet. You CAN create PCB's manually. You have to turn off all the DRC rules. However you then miss out on the protection that DRC gives you. preferences > general (middle of the window, DRC on/off tickbox) I'm still using the 2009 linux version of Kicad, so in the latest verson the menu locations may have changed. When you use DRC and then add a module, the system will complain, as DRC will not know anything about this component. Andy On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 22:34:07 - "ma...@ymail.com" wrote: > Thank you for your answer. Maybe I'm thinking too simple, or Old school... > Last time I successfully used a CAD was 15 years ago. Back then I could > certainly make a PCB with Proteus lite without using ISIS (the schematic > editor) nor making a netlist... According to the Kicad FAQ, I should be able > to work this way... > "5.1 How do I manually route a PCB? > Manual routing is quite straight forward. You don't even need to have a > schematic." > > I tried the thinnest trace possible, and even straight (with no angle at all) > the error occurs! > > Axel > > --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Andy Eskelson wrote: > > > > The problem is that you are thinking too simple... > > > > KIcad like most design software is designed to work via netlists and so > > on. > > > > As has been suggested you could simply turn off the design rules checking > > that will prevent errors and so on. > > > > By far the best method is to create a simple sch. in eeschema and then > > use that to generate the required netlist. > > > > It's well worth getting used to creating the circuit then the PCB and so > > on. > > > > The error is just giving you a warning that a track is too close to a pad. > > > > Tracks and pads have a clearance setting. The normal problkem is that you > > cut across the pad at an angle with a track, and you just clip the edge > > of the clearance limit. Centre on where the error is and zoom right in, > > and you will prob see the problem. > > > > Use a slightly thinner track, or re-route it to miss the clearance area. > > > > Like most packages Kicad takes a bit of getting used to, I used a lot > > worse! (and not just PCB packages) > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:39:38 - > > "ma...@..." wrote: > > > > > Hello group! > > > This is my first post, so I apologize but I'm afraid I need some help! > > > > > > I installed Kicad (2010-05-05 BZR 2356) on Ubuntu Lucid64. Fine. As far > > > as drawing schematics, everything is ok. Now if I try to draw a PCB > > > without schematic, without netlist, without autorouter... Just a simple > > > one sided circuit board. I create a new project, open PCB new, place say > > > a DIP-8_300 component, click on 'add traces and vias', start tracing... > > > and get: > > > Type Err(4) trace near pad > > > > > > What the hell am I doing wrong? > > > I can draw a trace without problem as long as I don't get near to the > > > component (which is not very useful!). It's not component related (same > > > behavior with resistances, caps, and so on) > > > Component and traces are both on the 'under' side. I tried different > > > traces sizes, I searched in the manual, in the different tutos, in the > > > web... Nada! I searched here but the search server is 'busy' please try > > > again later! Plus I don't know what to enter in the search engine, > > > 'manual routing' return results such as auto-routing in the kicad manual, > > > and the likes! > > > > > > I'm quite convinced that this must be something really simple, but I > > > can't find it! > > > > > > Thanks for your help > > > Axel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your > > > question. > > > Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator > > > of Kicad. > > > Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute > > > your symbols/modules to the kicad library. > > > For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the > > > kicad-devel group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your > question. > Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of > Kicad. > Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your > symbols/modules to the kicad library. > For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the > kicad-devel group at h
[kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad
I understand the idea of following a logical path schema>netlist>pcb... It's a better way, it's safer, it's perfect for learning, and so on. And when I'm designing, that's how I want to work. But for some applications it's plain frustrating, if not time wasting! Let me give you an example: Part of my job is maintenance for vintage audio equipment. Say an old console comes in and needs 4 more channel strips. Those are 'unobtainable', manufacturer has closed years ago, spare parts and schematics are unavailable, but the thing is old enough so there's no copyright or patent issue. So my job is to make some new PCBs and populate them. We are talking a big pcb, with 300+ components. Some of them are obsolete, so I really need to redraw the PCB to accommodate newer parts. Using good photographs of the original board, and transparent windows, I can redraw the whole thing in about a day... Job done. Now if I have to trace out the schemo, we are talking at least two more days of work! Maybe I just need to use obsolete tools to work with vintage stuff :) For this kind of job, the latest brand new and up-to-date software would be the one who allows me to draw the pcb first, THEN generate a netlist from the pcb, and then read this netlist IN the schematic editor so I could arrange them in a readable order... Bah, guess I should stop dreaming about simple things that could make life simpler... Axel --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Robert wrote: > > > Well, I am human! Therefore, when something try to NOT LET ME do > > things, I tend to struggle :) It works when I turn the DRC off, but > > it looks messy, and then I loose the isolation check and the comfort > > of the isolation zones delimited. That's why I would like to keep the > > DRC on... > > You can't have DRC without a netlist, because the netlist is what tells > PCBNew what can and can't be connected. You can create a netlist > manually (it's a text file), but the quickest, easiest, most reliable > way to generate a netlist is with a schematic editor. I create a > schematic even for very simple boards because it allows me to leave DRC > on, ensuring my board is neat and correct first time. If the schematic > is purely being used as a means of generating a netlist and I don't have > the exact component in the library, I save time by improvising with > something similar (because PCBNew only cares about footprints and > connectivity, not electrical properties). > > I used to use ISIS, and churned out one scrap board after another. > Since using Kicad (with DRC on) that no longer happens. Kicad is a far > better tool for producing boards, but only if you don't force it to > behave like obsolete software. > > Regards, > > Robert. > > > > > I don't see how I could make a netlist without drawing a schematic > > first? > > > > Axel > > > > > > --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Cat C wrote: > >> > >> > >> Did you turn DRC off? > >> > >> That's the purpose of DRC, to NOT LET YOU do things that are not in > >> the netlist (among other things). > >> > >> If you don't want to make a schematic, make a netlist. > >> > >> > >> > >> Cat > >> > >>> To: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com From: mad.ax@ Date: Fri, 20 > >>> Aug 2010 23:40:39 + Subject: [kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) > >>> trace near pad issue in Kicad > >>> > >>> Well, I made a simple schematic with EEschema, passed the > >>> electrical check without trouble, made the netlist, did the CVpcb > >>> thing, and routed in PCBnew. All is fine, so my Kicad build seems > >>> to be working. > >>> > >>> I tried to add another module in the pcb. Fine. I tried to > >>> connect the new module with a trace... Type Err(4)! It doesn't > >>> agree to connect the trace to the new component. > >>> > >>> I still don't understand why I cannot route manually without a > >>> schematic or a netlist when the faq says I could? > >>> > >>> Axel > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting > > your question. Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked > > up by the creator of Kicad. Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for > > details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad > > library. For building Kicad from source and other development > > questions visit the kicad-devel group at > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - > > www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3083 - Release > > Date: 08/20/10 07:35:00 > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3083 - Release Date: 08/20/10 > 07:35:00 >
Re: [kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad
> Well, I am human! Therefore, when something try to NOT LET ME do > things, I tend to struggle :) It works when I turn the DRC off, but > it looks messy, and then I loose the isolation check and the comfort > of the isolation zones delimited. That's why I would like to keep the > DRC on... You can't have DRC without a netlist, because the netlist is what tells PCBNew what can and can't be connected. You can create a netlist manually (it's a text file), but the quickest, easiest, most reliable way to generate a netlist is with a schematic editor. I create a schematic even for very simple boards because it allows me to leave DRC on, ensuring my board is neat and correct first time. If the schematic is purely being used as a means of generating a netlist and I don't have the exact component in the library, I save time by improvising with something similar (because PCBNew only cares about footprints and connectivity, not electrical properties). I used to use ISIS, and churned out one scrap board after another. Since using Kicad (with DRC on) that no longer happens. Kicad is a far better tool for producing boards, but only if you don't force it to behave like obsolete software. Regards, Robert. > > I don't see how I could make a netlist without drawing a schematic > first? > > Axel > > > --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Cat C wrote: >> >> >> Did you turn DRC off? >> >> That's the purpose of DRC, to NOT LET YOU do things that are not in >> the netlist (among other things). >> >> If you don't want to make a schematic, make a netlist. >> >> >> >> Cat >> >>> To: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com From: mad...@... Date: Fri, 20 >>> Aug 2010 23:40:39 + Subject: [kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) >>> trace near pad issue in Kicad >>> >>> Well, I made a simple schematic with EEschema, passed the >>> electrical check without trouble, made the netlist, did the CVpcb >>> thing, and routed in PCBnew. All is fine, so my Kicad build seems >>> to be working. >>> >>> I tried to add another module in the pcb. Fine. I tried to >>> connect the new module with a trace... Type Err(4)! It doesn't >>> agree to connect the trace to the new component. >>> >>> I still don't understand why I cannot route manually without a >>> schematic or a netlist when the faq says I could? >>> >>> Axel >> > > > > > > > Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting > your question. Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked > up by the creator of Kicad. Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for > details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad > library. For building Kicad from source and other development > questions visit the kicad-devel group at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - > www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3083 - Release > Date: 08/20/10 07:35:00 > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3083 - Release Date: 08/20/10 07:35:00
[kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad
Well, I am human! Therefore, when something try to NOT LET ME do things, I tend to struggle :) It works when I turn the DRC off, but it looks messy, and then I loose the isolation check and the comfort of the isolation zones delimited. That's why I would like to keep the DRC on... I don't see how I could make a netlist without drawing a schematic first? Axel --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Cat C wrote: > > > Did you turn DRC off? > > That's the purpose of DRC, to NOT LET YOU do things that are not in the > netlist (among other things). > > If you don't want to make a schematic, make a netlist. > > > > Cat > > > To: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com > > From: mad...@... > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 23:40:39 + > > Subject: [kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad > > > > Well, I made a simple schematic with EEschema, passed the electrical check > > without trouble, made the netlist, did the CVpcb thing, and routed in > > PCBnew. All is fine, so my Kicad build seems to be working. > > > > I tried to add another module in the pcb. Fine. > > I tried to connect the new module with a trace... Type Err(4)! > > It doesn't agree to connect the trace to the new component. > > > > I still don't understand why I cannot route manually without a schematic or > > a netlist when the faq says I could? > > > > Axel >
RE: [kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad
Did you turn DRC off? That's the purpose of DRC, to NOT LET YOU do things that are not in the netlist (among other things). If you don't want to make a schematic, make a netlist. Cat > To: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com > From: mad...@free.fr > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 23:40:39 +0000 > Subject: [kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad > > Well, I made a simple schematic with EEschema, passed the electrical check > without trouble, made the netlist, did the CVpcb thing, and routed in PCBnew. > All is fine, so my Kicad build seems to be working. > > I tried to add another module in the pcb. Fine. > I tried to connect the new module with a trace... Type Err(4)! > It doesn't agree to connect the trace to the new component. > > I still don't understand why I cannot route manually without a schematic or a > netlist when the faq says I could? > > Axel
[kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad
Well, I made a simple schematic with EEschema, passed the electrical check without trouble, made the netlist, did the CVpcb thing, and routed in PCBnew. All is fine, so my Kicad build seems to be working. I tried to add another module in the pcb. Fine. I tried to connect the new module with a trace... Type Err(4)! It doesn't agree to connect the trace to the new component. I still don't understand why I cannot route manually without a schematic or a netlist when the faq says I could? Axel --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, "ma...@..." wrote: > > Thank you for your answer. I will try to make a simple schematic and netlist, > to see if it works better... But it is my understanding that I shouldn't be > forced to go through those steps. > > Axel > > --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Ricardo Cárdenes Medina > wrote: > > > > On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 9:39 AM, madax@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hello group! > > > This is my first post, so I apologize but I'm afraid I need some help! > > > > > > I installed Kicad (2010-05-05 BZR 2356) on Ubuntu Lucid64. Fine. As far as > > > drawing schematics, everything is ok. Now if I try to draw a PCB without > > > schematic, without netlist, without autorouter... Just a simple one sided > > > circuit board. I create a new project, open PCB new, place say a DIP-8_300 > > > component, click on 'add traces and vias', start tracing... and get: > > > Type Err(4) trace near pad > > > > > > What the hell am I doing wrong. > > > > > As far as I can see, the problem is that you're trying to draw a track > > to/from a pad that doesn't have a net assigned. How to assign a net to a > > pad? Editing the pad of course, but as you're coming from a "blank" > > situation, with no netlist, then I don't know how it works... Tagging a pad > > with a net that doesn't exists will actually crash my pcbnew. > > >
[kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad
Thank you for your answer. Maybe I'm thinking too simple, or Old school... Last time I successfully used a CAD was 15 years ago. Back then I could certainly make a PCB with Proteus lite without using ISIS (the schematic editor) nor making a netlist... According to the Kicad FAQ, I should be able to work this way... "5.1 How do I manually route a PCB? Manual routing is quite straight forward. You don't even need to have a schematic." I tried the thinnest trace possible, and even straight (with no angle at all) the error occurs! Axel --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Andy Eskelson wrote: > > The problem is that you are thinking too simple... > > KIcad like most design software is designed to work via netlists and so > on. > > As has been suggested you could simply turn off the design rules checking > that will prevent errors and so on. > > By far the best method is to create a simple sch. in eeschema and then > use that to generate the required netlist. > > It's well worth getting used to creating the circuit then the PCB and so > on. > > The error is just giving you a warning that a track is too close to a pad. > > Tracks and pads have a clearance setting. The normal problkem is that you > cut across the pad at an angle with a track, and you just clip the edge > of the clearance limit. Centre on where the error is and zoom right in, > and you will prob see the problem. > > Use a slightly thinner track, or re-route it to miss the clearance area. > > Like most packages Kicad takes a bit of getting used to, I used a lot > worse! (and not just PCB packages) > > Andy > > > > > On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:39:38 - > "ma...@..." wrote: > > > Hello group! > > This is my first post, so I apologize but I'm afraid I need some help! > > > > I installed Kicad (2010-05-05 BZR 2356) on Ubuntu Lucid64. Fine. As far as > > drawing schematics, everything is ok. Now if I try to draw a PCB without > > schematic, without netlist, without autorouter... Just a simple one sided > > circuit board. I create a new project, open PCB new, place say a DIP-8_300 > > component, click on 'add traces and vias', start tracing... and get: > > Type Err(4) trace near pad > > > > What the hell am I doing wrong? > > I can draw a trace without problem as long as I don't get near to the > > component (which is not very useful!). It's not component related (same > > behavior with resistances, caps, and so on) > > Component and traces are both on the 'under' side. I tried different traces > > sizes, I searched in the manual, in the different tutos, in the web... > > Nada! I searched here but the search server is 'busy' please try again > > later! Plus I don't know what to enter in the search engine, 'manual > > routing' return results such as auto-routing in the kicad manual, and the > > likes! > > > > I'm quite convinced that this must be something really simple, but I can't > > find it! > > > > Thanks for your help > > Axel > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your > > question. > > Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of > > Kicad. > > Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your > > symbols/modules to the kicad library. > > For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the > > kicad-devel group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > >
[kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad
Thank you for your answer. I will try to make a simple schematic and netlist, to see if it works better... But it is my understanding that I shouldn't be forced to go through those steps. Axel --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Ricardo Cárdenes Medina wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 9:39 AM, ma...@... wrote: > > > > > > > Hello group! > > This is my first post, so I apologize but I'm afraid I need some help! > > > > I installed Kicad (2010-05-05 BZR 2356) on Ubuntu Lucid64. Fine. As far as > > drawing schematics, everything is ok. Now if I try to draw a PCB without > > schematic, without netlist, without autorouter... Just a simple one sided > > circuit board. I create a new project, open PCB new, place say a DIP-8_300 > > component, click on 'add traces and vias', start tracing... and get: > > Type Err(4) trace near pad > > > > What the hell am I doing wrong. > > > As far as I can see, the problem is that you're trying to draw a track > to/from a pad that doesn't have a net assigned. How to assign a net to a > pad? Editing the pad of course, but as you're coming from a "blank" > situation, with no netlist, then I don't know how it works... Tagging a pad > with a net that doesn't exists will actually crash my pcbnew. >
[kicad-users] Re: Type Err(4) trace near pad issue in Kicad
Thank you for your answers. I certainly agree that disabling the DRC is not a good thing. If I should not need the DRC, I could as well use the Gimp to make my PCB! It would certainly give me a better output on my laser printer :) I can think of a few cases when creating a schematic would not be easier nor quickier... And according to the Kicad FAQ, chapter 5.1: 5.1 How do I manually route a PCB? Manual routing is quite straight forward. You don't even need to have a schematic. That's exactly what I would like to do... Axel --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Robert wrote: > > The OP is certainly going to need good luck if he turns off the DRC. > Turning it off may well allow the track to be placed, but since the DRC > is there to dramatically reduce the chances of designing a scrap board, > in the long run it is quicker and easier to create a schematic and leave > the DRC on, even for a "simple" board (and just think how many ways > there are of misconnecting a rectangular box with eight legs). Not > doing so is like being given a ruler to help you draw a straight line, > but not using it in order to save the time involved in placing it on the > the paper. > > Regards, > > Robert. > > On 20/08/2010 15:18, Cat C wrote: > > > > I think you need to turn DRC (Design Rules Checking) off, but I'm a > > beginner too, so I'm not sure. > > > > > > > > Good luck, > > > > > > > > Cat > > > > > >> To: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com > >> From: mad...@... > > ... > > > > I create a new project, open PCB new, place say a DIP-8_300 component, > > click on 'add traces and vias', start tracing... and get: > >> Type Err(4) trace near pad > >> > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3083 - Release Date: 08/20/10 > > 07:35:00 > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3083 - Release Date: 08/20/10 > 07:35:00 >
