[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

Katrin Fischer  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|--- |INVALID
 Status|In Discussion   |RESOLVED

--- Comment #18 from Katrin Fischer  ---
Reviewing the comments here the vote was quite clear: the ISBD view needs to
stay. We could still think about offering an alternative way of defining its
contents or at least making sure the syntax is well documented.

Closing.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

Katrin Fischer  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |In Discussion

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

Vitor Fernandes  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||vitorfernande...@gmail.com

--- Comment #17 from Vitor Fernandes  ---
I think the ISBD preview should not be removed. 
However it should work equal to the normal view, ie use XSLT.
It allows more flexibility (repeatable fields, maintain fields ordering, etc.)
to configure the view than the system preferences.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

BestBookBuddies  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||i...@bestbookbuddies.com

--- Comment #16 from BestBookBuddies  ---
We also disagree with this suggestion of removing "ISBD View", as many Indian
Subcontinent libraries are still based on AACR-2 and they are using this
feature in their libraries for the end user's convenience. Even many times
libraries use this ISBD view as default display view. Also, adding more
information in ISBD view is easy for librarians by using Koha Global system
preferences. It just need some more documentation to explore more. And in case,
the community wishes to add additional feature like export cart in "CSV
format", it is good and it can be done while the ISBD should remain in
existence.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

--- Comment #15 from Tomás Cohen Arazi  ---
It seems to me that this bug highlights how complicated(In reply to Elaine
Bradtke from comment #14)
> I think the ISBD has its uses, brevity and clarity for one. It seems to make
> sense to change how the view is generated to a more widely recognized
> standard.  However, we've customized ours to display some of the less common
> fields we use, and if you change how it's coded, I expect that will have to
> be redone.  I imagine other libraries who use it have also customized theirs?

I think this comment highlights one of the problems with the current
XSLT-driven visualization: it is too difficult to do and maintain for most
institutions.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

Elaine Bradtke  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||e...@efdss.org

--- Comment #14 from Elaine Bradtke  ---
I think the ISBD has its uses, brevity and clarity for one. It seems to make
sense to change how the view is generated to a more widely recognized standard.
 However, we've customized ours to display some of the less common fields we
use, and if you change how it's coded, I expect that will have to be redone.  I
imagine other libraries who use it have also customized theirs?

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

Chris Cormack  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||ch...@bigballofwax.co.nz

--- Comment #13 from Chris Cormack  ---
While I agree w(In reply to Bengal Library Association from comment #12)
> Strongly disagree with the initiative of removing ISBD display. This may be
> because of the fact that Librarians are not so much involved in Koha
> development team. The popularity of Koha in Indian Subcontinent is mostly
> based on the ISBD view of entered database. Till now there are a lot of
> users in this Subcontinent those want to view the catalogue not in mnemonic
> format but in ISBD format. As MARC framework is totally based on AACR2, so
> removing ISBD display should be unethical, as I think. Correlating MARC with
> AACR2 properly is the only way of integrating the sense of librarianship
> with the technological aspects of a library management software, is my
> opinion. Again as there are many items described in AACR2 Part 1 and there
> is only one place of writing syntax in ISBD template in Koha, at the time of
> releasing new version of Koha we are waiting for some easier way of
> incorporating syntax of each and every items. Hope effort should be made
> regarding this not removing the existing ISBD display. Regards...

I agree with most of this comment, and agree that ISBD should not be removed.
But it is wrong to say Librarians are not involved with Koha, every single
feature in Koha has come as a request from Librarians. The QA Manager is a
librarian, plenty of others are involved.

It is true that there are not many Indian Librarians involved, and that this
should change. Commenting on bugs is a good start, paying developers to add
features such as an easier way to edit ISBD is a good second step.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

Bengal Library Association  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||blacal@gmail.com

--- Comment #12 from Bengal Library Association  ---
Strongly disagree with the initiative of removing ISBD display. This may be
because of the fact that Librarians are not so much involved in Koha
development team. The popularity of Koha in Indian Subcontinent is mostly based
on the ISBD view of entered database. Till now there are a lot of users in this
Subcontinent those want to view the catalogue not in mnemonic format but in
ISBD format. As MARC framework is totally based on AACR2, so removing ISBD
display should be unethical, as I think. Correlating MARC with AACR2 properly
is the only way of integrating the sense of librarianship with the
technological aspects of a library management software, is my opinion. Again as
there are many items described in AACR2 Part 1 and there is only one place of
writing syntax in ISBD template in Koha, at the time of releasing new version
of Koha we are waiting for some easier way of incorporating syntax of each and
every items. Hope effort should be made regarding this not removing the
existing ISBD display. Regards...

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

Jasimudeen  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||jasim...@gmail.com

--- Comment #11 from Jasimudeen  ---
Old is gold ! :)

Its better not to remove ISBD display.its a feature which makes Koha more
welcoming to Indian users.Forget the undocumented internal syntax for a while.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

sujan@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||sujan@gmail.com

--- Comment #10 from sujan@gmail.com ---
(In reply to Indranil Das Gupta from comment #7)
> I disagree and with good reason! yes, agreed that the way it is implemented
> is not in the best possible manner. 
> 
> The ISBD display support is one of the __MAJOR__ reason that has allowed the
> massive use of Koha across the entire Indian sub-continent. Without the ISDB
> display (and I do not mean the code) as an option on the OPAC and staff
> client, Koha will stand to lose the position of de-facto choice. many
> libraries here have infact use the ISBD display as the primary display.
> 
> So, yes I don't mind a code upgrade / cleanup. But that display is *needed*
> and needs to stay. Koha users are not all from the 1st world countries and
> thousands are still using AACR2 instead of RDA.

I agreed with you Mr. Das Gupta.. .

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

--- Comment #9 from Gaetan Boisson  ---
Well, it seems a few people do rely on this display.

My understanding is that the requirement is a more simple display than the
normal one, without all the links, layout, and features we have in the normal
display. (Nicolas, the marc view is indeed quite horrible, somehow some
librarians want it by default yes!)

I think this display would still be better achieved through xslt, which
wouldn't require us to have a half-baked undocumented domain-specific
templating system hanging around in Koha just for this one tab.

Maybe indeed we could make it so that several xslts could be used in the normal
display, and allow the user to switch between them?

This would of course make it possible to have a simple text only ISBD-style
display, but anything would be possible then.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

--- Comment #8 from Nicolas Legrand  ---
We were just about to use it! Our cataloguing colleagues want a quick view of
the data.

You have to click a lot on the MARC view to see it all.

The XSLT view is appropriate for circulation but not for what they want.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

Indranil Das Gupta  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||indr...@l2c2.co.in

--- Comment #7 from Indranil Das Gupta  ---
I disagree and with good reason! yes, agreed that the way it is implemented is
not in the best possible manner. 

The ISBD display support is one of the __MAJOR__ reason that has allowed the
massive use of Koha across the entire Indian sub-continent. Without the ISDB
display (and I do not mean the code) as an option on the OPAC and staff client,
Koha will stand to lose the position of de-facto choice. many libraries here
have infact use the ISBD display as the primary display.

So, yes I don't mind a code upgrade / cleanup. But that display is *needed* and
needs to stay. Koha users are not all from the 1st world countries and
thousands are still using AACR2 instead of RDA.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

Nicolas Legrand  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||nicolas.legr...@bulac.fr

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

Andreas Hedström Mace  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||andreas.hedstrom.mace@sub.s
   ||u.se

--- Comment #6 from Andreas Hedström Mace  ---
I agree with Gaetan that this should be removed. Keeping it (undocumented and
problematic as it is) only for the sake of copy-pasting seems a waste. Better
work on the export formats instead then.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

Eugene Espinoza  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||eugen...@yahoo.com

--- Comment #5 from Eugene Espinoza  ---
Hi Gaetan! For old-fashioned librarians still printing catalog cards, this is
their way of copy-pasting what is in the ISBD display into their word document
in so far as experience is concern.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

Fridolin SOMERS  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||fridolin.som...@biblibre.co
   ||m

--- Comment #4 from Fridolin SOMERS  ---
I think we should provide export with XSLT profiles in addition to CSV
profiles.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

Katrin Fischer  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||katrin.fisc...@bsz-bw.de

--- Comment #3 from Katrin Fischer  ---
Yes, I think we can use CSV profiles in some places.

I agree that the syntax is underdocumented, but I am not sure that some
libraries aren't still wanting this.

Students might use it for creating lists of literature for their projects
maybe? It's an easy to copy summary and somewhat more readable than what you
could do with a CSV.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

--- Comment #2 from Gaetan Boisson  ---
Can't we use csv export there as well?

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

Tomás Cohen Arazi  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||tomasco...@gmail.com

--- Comment #1 from Tomás Cohen Arazi  ---
Would this include the ISBD export format? I ask because, so far, is the only
way to specify custom formats for export/sending lists/carts.

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[Koha-bugs] [Bug 20406] Remove ISBD display

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20406

Gaetan Boisson  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||20396


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20396
[Bug 20396] Omnibus: Koha Cleanup
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