Re: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

2026-03-25 Thread Simon Blake via Koha-devel 
I agree that one round of archive breakage is better than two rounds of archive 
breakage, so if we accept that a move to Mailman 3 is going to be inevitable at 
some point in the future*, that's a good argument for doing the MM3 migration 
now.

Regardless of whether we do MM3 with Mythic Beasts (and avoid the archive 
breakage), or with mailmanlists.net (and live with the archive breakage), it 
looks like we'll be recreating the list and uploading new data (ie the existing 
MM2 list at mailmanlists.net likely can't be reused for MM3).  Assuming that's 
the case and I can't avoid another round of data uploads, I've unblocked SMTP 
inbound to the old server, so the list will start delivering again - might as 
well have it working while we wait for more information.

If Mythic Beasts come back with a cost that is acceptable to Jonathan (as he's 
offered to pay it) and can meet the timeframe, then I can't see why we'd not 
use them - no archive breakage is a much better result.  If they can't, then 
I'll go back to mailmanlists.net and ask them to recreate the list as a MM3 list

Cheers
Simon

[*] because MM2 is officially python2.7 only - there are some third party ports 
to python 3, but they're not in any common distributions, so using them will be 
installation-from-source, which is likely more work than most are prepared to 
commit to.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2026, at 10:58 PM, Paul Poulain via Koha-devel wrote:
> Hello Simon,
> 
> We had a (small group) discussion yesterday at the hackfest, and some more 
> this morning (whole group). The consensus is that, as long as we can search 
> in the archive, it's not a problem to have a URL change for the archive.
> 
> So we propose to move to mailmanlists.net = easy, already paid & very cheap 
> (50€/year), no maintenance effort.
> 
> The topic mailman2 > mailman3 will be addressed later, but it's a good point. 
> Seems that mailmanlists.net can do that for us 
> [https://www.mailmanlists.net/en/faq/02], it will change archive URLs as well 
> so maybe we should move to mailman3 asap, to avoid archive links being broken 
> again in a couple of months.
> 
> QUESTION to the list : does anyone have experience with mailman3 ? Any 
> feedback ? What does change for users ?
> 
> Le 25/03/2026 à 00:35, Simon Blake via Koha-devel a écrit :
>> Random acts of science, grepping around in the current archive, there have 
>> been 8026 messages to the Koha list since January 2020, of those, 56 
>> reference other messages in the archive in the body of the message.   So a 
>> bit less than 1% of messages in the archive contain links to other messages 
>> in the archive that will 404 if we move to mailmanlists.net.
>> 
>> It did occur to me that if it's OK to abandon the archive structure, then 
>> perhaps it makes sense to upgrade to mailman 3 at the same time?  Following 
>> that line of thinking, I found this:
>> 
>> https://www.mythic-beasts.com/blog/2024/09/02/mailman-list-archive-link-preservation/
>> 
>> mostly that post is about the code they wrote to preserve archives, but has 
>> a note at the bottom that they do mailman hosting.  If they can do Koha a 
>> mailman3 list with the mailman2 archive preserved, then that would be a 
>> pretty good outcome.  I've dropped them a line to find out what they can do 
>> and how much, I shall report back.
>> 
>> Also, I just realised that I forgot to remove the firewall rule that refused 
>> SMTP connections when I migrated the Koha list back to the old server, which 
>> is why there hasn't been a message to the list since March 18.  While that 
>> was a dumb move on my part (apologies!), the silver lining is that it does 
>> mean that if the consensus is to move back to mailmanlists.net, then I can 
>> do that without getting them to reimport the list (ie I just change the DNS 
>> entries back to point at mailmanlists.net and delivery will restart). 
>> 
>> Leaving the server blocking SMTP does, though, add some time pressure - in 
>> that sending servers will start dropping messages as undeliverable after 
>> 10-14 days, so we need to make a decision one way or the other in the next 
>> 36 hours.  So I propose:
>>  • I'll give Mythic Beasts 24 hours to respond, if they seem viable, I'll 
>> report that back here, and I'll unblock the firewall to the current server 
>> so that the lists starts working again.
>>  • If Indranil wants to take over lists.katipo.co.nz and move it to a VM, 
>> then that needs to start happening immediately - that is, today.  I'm happy 
>> to tar up the current VM and generally help with the move, I just need a 
>> target.
>>  • If neither of the above come to pass, then 24 hours from now I'll point 
>> the DNS back to mailmanlists.net
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Simon
>> 
>> On Sun, Mar 22, 2026, at 6:43 AM, Katrin Fischer via Koha-devel wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> while Indranil's offer is very generous, I agree with Paul that as long as 
>>> the archive is made searchable again the broken links might be something

Re: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

2026-03-25 Thread Simon Blake via Koha-devel 
Mythic Beasts came back, message below.   TL;DR - they can preserve the archive 
links, but only if we move to MM3.

They want some sizings before they do a price, I'll gather the info they need 
shortly.

--
We can preserve URLs, but only by generating a list of redirects to a Mailman 3 
archive.

Unfortunately, we can't provide Mailman 2 hosting because it relies on Python 2 
which is no longer supported in Debian (or any other mainstream OS).

Mailman 3 is a complete rewrite of Mailman 2, and although it addresses some of 
the shortcomings in Mailman 2, it is quite different to use, and I would 
recommend doing some evaluation of it before committing to a migration of a 
list of this size and history.
--

On Wed, Mar 25, 2026, at 10:58 PM, Paul Poulain via Koha-devel wrote:
> Hello Simon,
> 
> We had a (small group) discussion yesterday at the hackfest, and some more 
> this morning (whole group). The consensus is that, as long as we can search 
> in the archive, it's not a problem to have a URL change for the archive.
> 
> So we propose to move to mailmanlists.net = easy, already paid & very cheap 
> (50€/year), no maintenance effort.
> 
> The topic mailman2 > mailman3 will be addressed later, but it's a good point. 
> Seems that mailmanlists.net can do that for us 
> [https://www.mailmanlists.net/en/faq/02], it will change archive URLs as well 
> so maybe we should move to mailman3 asap, to avoid archive links being broken 
> again in a couple of months.
> 
> QUESTION to the list : does anyone have experience with mailman3 ? Any 
> feedback ? What does change for users ?
> 
> Le 25/03/2026 à 00:35, Simon Blake via Koha-devel a écrit :
>> Random acts of science, grepping around in the current archive, there have 
>> been 8026 messages to the Koha list since January 2020, of those, 56 
>> reference other messages in the archive in the body of the message.   So a 
>> bit less than 1% of messages in the archive contain links to other messages 
>> in the archive that will 404 if we move to mailmanlists.net.
>> 
>> It did occur to me that if it's OK to abandon the archive structure, then 
>> perhaps it makes sense to upgrade to mailman 3 at the same time?  Following 
>> that line of thinking, I found this:
>> 
>> https://www.mythic-beasts.com/blog/2024/09/02/mailman-list-archive-link-preservation/
>> 
>> mostly that post is about the code they wrote to preserve archives, but has 
>> a note at the bottom that they do mailman hosting.  If they can do Koha a 
>> mailman3 list with the mailman2 archive preserved, then that would be a 
>> pretty good outcome.  I've dropped them a line to find out what they can do 
>> and how much, I shall report back.
>> 
>> Also, I just realised that I forgot to remove the firewall rule that refused 
>> SMTP connections when I migrated the Koha list back to the old server, which 
>> is why there hasn't been a message to the list since March 18.  While that 
>> was a dumb move on my part (apologies!), the silver lining is that it does 
>> mean that if the consensus is to move back to mailmanlists.net, then I can 
>> do that without getting them to reimport the list (ie I just change the DNS 
>> entries back to point at mailmanlists.net and delivery will restart). 
>> 
>> Leaving the server blocking SMTP does, though, add some time pressure - in 
>> that sending servers will start dropping messages as undeliverable after 
>> 10-14 days, so we need to make a decision one way or the other in the next 
>> 36 hours.  So I propose:
>>  • I'll give Mythic Beasts 24 hours to respond, if they seem viable, I'll 
>> report that back here, and I'll unblock the firewall to the current server 
>> so that the lists starts working again.
>>  • If Indranil wants to take over lists.katipo.co.nz and move it to a VM, 
>> then that needs to start happening immediately - that is, today.  I'm happy 
>> to tar up the current VM and generally help with the move, I just need a 
>> target.
>>  • If neither of the above come to pass, then 24 hours from now I'll point 
>> the DNS back to mailmanlists.net
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Simon
>> 
>> On Sun, Mar 22, 2026, at 6:43 AM, Katrin Fischer via Koha-devel wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> while Indranil's offer is very generous, I agree with Paul that as long as 
>>> the archive is made searchable again the broken links might be something we 
>>> could live with. I see an advantage in having one less thing to worry about 
>>> maintaining.
>>> 
>>> It will also be good to get more opinions at the hackfest.
>>> 
>>> Katrin
>>> 
>>> On 20.03.26 11:11, Paul Poulain via Koha-devel wrote:
 No-one has an opinion ?
 
 Mine is that prefer to move to mailmanlists.net and loose the archive 
 links:
 
  • archive is still here, it will be indexed by bots
  • there are not so many critical backlinks
  • no-one else is willing to manage a server, mailmanlists.net cost 
 40€/year, nothing can beat it !
 The topic is added to nextweek hackfest

Re: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

2026-03-25 Thread Paul Poulain via Koha-devel 

Hello Simon,

We had a (small group) discussion yesterday at the hackfest, and some 
more this morning (whole group). The consensus is that, as long as we 
can search in the archive, it's not a problem to have a URL change for 
the archive.


So we propose to move to mailmanlists.net = easy, already paid & very 
cheap (50€/year), no maintenance effort.


The topic mailman2 > mailman3 will be addressed later, but it's a good 
point. Seems that mailmanlists.net can do that for us 
[https://www.mailmanlists.net/en/faq/02], it will change archive URLs as 
well so maybe we should move to mailman3 asap, to avoid archive links 
being broken again in a couple of months.


QUESTION to the list : does anyone have experience with mailman3 ? Any 
feedback ? What does change for users ?


Le 25/03/2026 à 00:35, Simon Blake via Koha-devel a écrit :
Random acts of science, grepping around in the current archive, there 
have been 8026 messages to the Koha list since January 2020, of those, 
56 reference other messages in the archive in the body of the 
message.   So a bit less than 1% of messages in the archive contain 
links to other messages in the archive that will 404 if we move to 
mailmanlists.net.


It did occur to me that if it's OK to abandon the archive structure, 
then perhaps it makes sense to upgrade to mailman 3 at the same time?  
Following that line of thinking, I found this:


https://www.mythic-beasts.com/blog/2024/09/02/mailman-list-archive-link-preservation/

mostly that post is about the code they wrote to preserve archives, 
but has a note at the bottom that they do mailman hosting.  If they 
can do Koha a mailman3 list with the mailman2 archive preserved, then 
that would be a pretty good outcome. I've dropped them a line to find 
out what they can do and how much, I shall report back.


Also, I just realised that I forgot to remove the firewall rule that 
refused SMTP connections when I migrated the Koha list back to the old 
server, which is why there hasn't been a message to the list since 
March 18.  While that was a dumb move on my part (apologies!), the 
silver lining is that it does mean that if the consensus is to move 
back to mailmanlists.net, then I can do that without getting them to 
reimport the list (ie I just change the DNS entries back to point at 
mailmanlists.net and delivery will restart).


Leaving the server blocking SMTP does, though, add some time pressure 
- in that sending servers will start dropping messages as 
undeliverable after 10-14 days, so we need to make a decision one way 
or the other in the next 36 hours.  So I propose:


  * I'll give Mythic Beasts 24 hours to respond, if they seem viable,
I'll report that back here, and I'll unblock the firewall to the
current server so that the lists starts working again.
  * If Indranil wants to take over lists.katipo.co.nz and move it to a
VM, then that needs to start happening immediately - that is,
today.  I'm happy to tar up the current VM and generally help with
the move, I just need a target.
  * If neither of the above come to pass, then 24 hours from now I'll
point the DNS back to mailmanlists.net


Cheers
Simon

On Sun, Mar 22, 2026, at 6:43 AM, Katrin Fischer via Koha-devel wrote:


Hi all,

while Indranil's offer is very generous, I agree with Paul that as 
long as the archive is made searchable again the broken links might 
be something we could live with. I see an advantage in having one 
less thing to worry about maintaining.


It will also be good to get more opinions at the hackfest.

Katrin

On 20.03.26 11:11, Paul Poulain via Koha-devel wrote:


No-one has an opinion ?

Mine is that prefer to move to mailmanlists.net and loose the 
archive links:


  * archive is still here, it will be indexed by bots
  * there are not so many critical backlinks
  * no-one else is willing to manage a server, mailmanlists.net cost
40€/year, nothing can beat it !

The topic is added to nextweek hackfest (and it includes 
*@lists.koha-community.org)


Cheers,

Le 19/03/2026 à 05:49, Simon Blake a écrit :
Feedback from mailmanlists.net is that the the url changes are an 
expected side effect of the way they import the existing list - 
they regenerate the archive from scratch from the .mbox file, so 
they assert there is nothing they can do to ensure archive links 
continue to work.    This feels a little arbitrary - the archive is 
just a tree of HTML in the filesystem, there's no obvious reason it 
could't be copied from the old system (as you'd do if you were 
moving from one server to another).


So all opinons welcome.  The current server goes away at the end of 
the month, Koha can


  * continue with maIlmanlists.net and accept the link breakage
  * move/recreate the vm somewhere else, with intact archive
  * something else ?

Cheers
Simon


On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 1:18 PM, Simon Blake via Koha-devel wrote:
After mulling that choice for a few minutes, I concluded that 
reverting is the

Re: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

2026-03-24 Thread Simon Blake via Koha-devel 
Random acts of science, grepping around in the current archive, there have been 
8026 messages to the Koha list since January 2020, of those, 56 reference other 
messages in the archive in the body of the message.   So a bit less than 1% of 
messages in the archive contain links to other messages in the archive that 
will 404 if we move to mailmanlists.net.

It did occur to me that if it's OK to abandon the archive structure, then 
perhaps it makes sense to upgrade to mailman 3 at the same time?  Following 
that line of thinking, I found this:

https://www.mythic-beasts.com/blog/2024/09/02/mailman-list-archive-link-preservation/

mostly that post is about the code they wrote to preserve archives, but has a 
note at the bottom that they do mailman hosting.  If they can do Koha a 
mailman3 list with the mailman2 archive preserved, then that would be a pretty 
good outcome.  I've dropped them a line to find out what they can do and how 
much, I shall report back.

Also, I just realised that I forgot to remove the firewall rule that refused 
SMTP connections when I migrated the Koha list back to the old server, which is 
why there hasn't been a message to the list since March 18.  While that was a 
dumb move on my part (apologies!), the silver lining is that it does mean that 
if the consensus is to move back to mailmanlists.net, then I can do that 
without getting them to reimport the list (ie I just change the DNS entries 
back to point at mailmanlists.net and delivery will restart).  

Leaving the server blocking SMTP does, though, add some time pressure - in that 
sending servers will start dropping messages as undeliverable after 10-14 days, 
so we need to make a decision one way or the other in the next 36 hours.  So I 
propose:
 • I'll give Mythic Beasts 24 hours to respond, if they seem viable, I'll 
report that back here, and I'll unblock the firewall to the current server so 
that the lists starts working again.
 • If Indranil wants to take over lists.katipo.co.nz and move it to a VM, then 
that needs to start happening immediately - that is, today.  I'm happy to tar 
up the current VM and generally help with the move, I just need a target.
 • If neither of the above come to pass, then 24 hours from now I'll point the 
DNS back to mailmanlists.net

Cheers
Simon

On Sun, Mar 22, 2026, at 6:43 AM, Katrin Fischer via Koha-devel wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> while Indranil's offer is very generous, I agree with Paul that as long as 
> the archive is made searchable again the broken links might be something we 
> could live with. I see an advantage in having one less thing to worry about 
> maintaining.
> 
> It will also be good to get more opinions at the hackfest.
> 
> Katrin
> 
> On 20.03.26 11:11, Paul Poulain via Koha-devel wrote:
>> No-one has an opinion ?
>> 
>> Mine is that prefer to move to mailmanlists.net and loose the archive links:
>> 
>>  • archive is still here, it will be indexed by bots
>>  • there are not so many critical backlinks
>>  • no-one else is willing to manage a server, mailmanlists.net cost 
>> 40€/year, nothing can beat it !
>> The topic is added to nextweek hackfest (and it includes 
>> *@lists.koha-community.org) 
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Le 19/03/2026 à 05:49, Simon Blake a écrit :
>>> Feedback from mailmanlists.net is that the the url changes are an expected 
>>> side effect of the way they import the existing list - they regenerate the 
>>> archive from scratch from the .mbox file, so they assert there is nothing 
>>> they can do to ensure archive links continue to work.This feels a 
>>> little arbitrary - the archive is just a tree of HTML in the filesystem, 
>>> there's no obvious reason it could't be copied from the old system (as 
>>> you'd do if you were moving from one server to another).  
>>> 
>>> So all opinons welcome.  The current server goes away at the end of the 
>>> month, Koha can
>>>  • continue with maIlmanlists.net and accept the link breakage
>>>  • move/recreate the vm somewhere else, with intact archive
>>>  • something else ?
>>> Cheers
>>> Simon
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 1:18 PM, Simon Blake via Koha-devel wrote:
 After mulling that choice for a few minutes, I concluded that reverting is 
 the prudent approach - losing subscription changes and archives of 
 messages from the past 12 hours is better than invalidating every external 
 link into the archive.
 
 So I've reverted the DNS back to the old server while we sort this out.  
 Pathing in to archives will fix itself as DNS caches time out.
 
 Cheers
 Simon
 
 On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 12:51 PM, Simon Blake via Koha-devel wrote:
> That's a fine question, good spotting!   The new server is a managed 
> service (on mailmanlists.net), so we don't get direct access to it.  That 
> said, even if we did, a redirect would be kind of difficult, as it's not 
> just the path - the endpoint HTML file names in the archive have also

Re: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

2026-03-21 Thread Katrin Fischer via Koha-devel 

Hi all,

while Indranil's offer is very generous, I agree with Paul that as long 
as the archive is made searchable again the broken links might be 
something we could live with. I see an advantage in having one less 
thing to worry about maintaining.


It will also be good to get more opinions at the hackfest.

Katrin

On 20.03.26 11:11, Paul Poulain via Koha-devel wrote:


No-one has an opinion ?

Mine is that prefer to move to mailmanlists.net and loose the archive 
links:


  * archive is still here, it will be indexed by bots
  * there are not so many critical backlinks
  * no-one else is willing to manage a server, mailmanlists.net cost
40€/year, nothing can beat it !

The topic is added to nextweek hackfest (and it includes 
*@lists.koha-community.org)


Cheers,

Le 19/03/2026 à 05:49, Simon Blake a écrit :
Feedback from mailmanlists.net is that the the url changes are an 
expected side effect of the way they import the existing list - they 
regenerate the archive from scratch from the .mbox file, so they 
assert there is nothing they can do to ensure archive links continue 
to work.    This feels a little arbitrary - the archive is just a 
tree of HTML in the filesystem, there's no obvious reason it could't 
be copied from the old system (as you'd do if you were moving from 
one server to another).


So all opinons welcome.  The current server goes away at the end of 
the month, Koha can


  * continue with maIlmanlists.net and accept the link breakage
  * move/recreate the vm somewhere else, with intact archive
  * something else ?

Cheers
Simon


On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 1:18 PM, Simon Blake via Koha-devel wrote:
After mulling that choice for a few minutes, I concluded that 
reverting is the prudent approach - losing subscription changes and 
archives of messages from the past 12 hours is better than 
invalidating every external link into the archive.


So I've reverted the DNS back to the old server while we sort this 
out.  Pathing in to archives will fix itself as DNS caches time out.


Cheers
Simon

On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 12:51 PM, Simon Blake via Koha-devel wrote:
That's a fine question, good spotting!   The new server is a 
managed service (on mailmanlists.net), so we don't get direct 
access to it.  That said, even if we did, a redirect would be kind 
of difficult, as it's not just the path - the endpoint HTML file 
names in the archive have also changed (ie


https://oldlists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html

has become

https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2025-February/056688.html

Since Paul is likely asleep, I've contacted the support folks at 
mailmanlists.net to see what they can do (they're in Sydney NSW).


Comparing the two archives, it looks like there hasn't been a posting

Question for you folks, if MML.net come back and say "nothing we 
can do, suck it up cupcake", then what is the feeling of the koha 
project to that?  I can revert the DNS changes back to the old 
server, which will obviously fix all the broken links, but will 
drop any messages sent to the list since the change from the old 
archive (currently only the last two messages on 
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2026-March/date.html#start )


Cheers
Simon

On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 11:41 AM, David Cook via Koha-devel wrote:
By the way, it looks like a lot of old links are broken now like 
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html


Are there plans to do a redirect?

David Cook
Senior Software Engineer
Prosentient Systems
Suite 7.03
6a Glen St
Milsons Point NSW 2061
Australia

Office: 02 9212 0899

-Original Message-
From: Koha-devel  On 
Behalf Of Paul Poulain via Koha-devel

Sent: Wednesday, 18 March 2026 7:29 PM
To: koha-devel 
Subject: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

Hello all,

The https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha has been 
moved from a katipo server to mailmanlists.net 
 provider (BibLibre paying the bill).


I have forwarded the admin password to @rangi (Chris C.) , I have 
it too.


@RACHEL = do you want to still be admin ?

@KOHA-DEVEL = anyone else should be ? Something to be 
discussed/decided during the next general meeting ?


Note that, next week during the hackfest, we may move 
@lists.koha-community.org lists to this provider as well.


--
Paul Poulain, Associé-gérant / CEO
BibLibre, Services et logiciels libres pour votre bibliothèque 
BibLibre, Open Source software and services for your library


___
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website : https://www.koha-community.org/
git : https://git.koha-community.org/
bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/



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Re: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

2026-03-20 Thread Indranil Das Gupta via Koha-devel 
Hi all,

If the community wants to stick around with mailman, i can certainly
dedicate and administer a small VM (4vcpu / 8G / 150GB ssd / Ubuntu 24.04)
located in Europe with the ssh access shared with all the current / future
k-c listadmins.

Back in the days i've hosted and managed several m/ls for indian linux
users and foss groups on mailman and before that on majordomo. So, while
I'm not currently running any mailman instance, this wont be my first rodeo
;-)

cheers
idg


--
Indranil Das Gupta
L2C2 Technologies

Phone : +91-98300-20971
WWW  : http://www.l2c2.co.in
Blog: http://blog.l2c2.co.in
IRC : indradg on irc://irc.freenode.net
Twitter : indradg

On Fri, 20 Mar 2026, 15:51 Paul Poulain via Koha-devel, <
[email protected]> wrote:

> No-one has an opinion ?
>
> Mine is that prefer to move to mailmanlists.net and loose the archive
> links:
>
>- archive is still here, it will be indexed by bots
>- there are not so many critical backlinks
>- no-one else is willing to manage a server, mailmanlists.net cost
>40€/year, nothing can beat it !
>
> The topic is added to nextweek hackfest (and it includes *@
> lists.koha-community.org)
>
> Cheers,
> Le 19/03/2026 à 05:49, Simon Blake a écrit :
>
> Feedback from mailmanlists.net is that the the url changes are an
> expected side effect of the way they import the existing list - they
> regenerate the archive from scratch from the .mbox file, so they assert
> there is nothing they can do to ensure archive links continue to work.
> This feels a little arbitrary - the archive is just a tree of HTML in the
> filesystem, there's no obvious reason it could't be copied from the old
> system (as you'd do if you were moving from one server to another).
>
> So all opinons welcome.  The current server goes away at the end of the
> month, Koha can
>
>- continue with maIlmanlists.net and accept the link breakage
>- move/recreate the vm somewhere else, with intact archive
>- something else ?
>
> Cheers
> Simon
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 1:18 PM, Simon Blake via Koha-devel wrote:
>
> After mulling that choice for a few minutes, I concluded that reverting is
> the prudent approach - losing subscription changes and archives of messages
> from the past 12 hours is better than invalidating every external link into
> the archive.
>
> So I've reverted the DNS back to the old server while we sort this out.
> Pathing in to archives will fix itself as DNS caches time out.
>
> Cheers
> Simon
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 12:51 PM, Simon Blake via Koha-devel wrote:
>
> That's a fine question, good spotting!   The new server is a managed
> service (on mailmanlists.net), so we don't get direct access to it.  That
> said, even if we did, a redirect would be kind of difficult, as it's not
> just the path - the endpoint HTML file names in the archive have also
> changed (ie
>
> https://oldlists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html
>
> has become
>
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2025-February/056688.html
>
> Since Paul is likely asleep, I've contacted the support folks at
> mailmanlists.net to see what they can do (they're in Sydney NSW).
>
> Comparing the two archives, it looks like there hasn't been a posting
>
> Question for you folks, if MML.net come back and say "nothing we can do,
> suck it up cupcake", then what is the feeling of the koha project to that?
> I can revert the DNS changes back to the old server, which will obviously
> fix all the broken links, but will drop any messages sent to the list since
> the change from the old archive (currently only the last two messages on
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2026-March/date.html#start )
>
> Cheers
> Simon
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 11:41 AM, David Cook via Koha-devel wrote:
>
> By the way, it looks like a lot of old links are broken now like
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html
>
> Are there plans to do a redirect?
>
> David Cook
> Senior Software Engineer
> Prosentient Systems
> Suite 7.03
> 6a Glen St
> 
>
> 
> Milsons Point NSW 2061
> 
>
> 
> Australia
>

Re: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

2026-03-20 Thread Paul Poulain via Koha-devel 

No-one has an opinion ?

Mine is that prefer to move to mailmanlists.net and loose the archive links:

 * archive is still here, it will be indexed by bots
 * there are not so many critical backlinks
 * no-one else is willing to manage a server, mailmanlists.net cost
   40€/year, nothing can beat it !

The topic is added to nextweek hackfest (and it includes 
*@lists.koha-community.org)


Cheers,

Le 19/03/2026 à 05:49, Simon Blake a écrit :
Feedback from mailmanlists.net is that the the url changes are an 
expected side effect of the way they import the existing list - they 
regenerate the archive from scratch from the .mbox file, so they 
assert there is nothing they can do to ensure archive links continue 
to work.    This feels a little arbitrary - the archive is just a tree 
of HTML in the filesystem, there's no obvious reason it could't be 
copied from the old system (as you'd do if you were moving from one 
server to another).


So all opinons welcome.  The current server goes away at the end of 
the month, Koha can


  * continue with maIlmanlists.net and accept the link breakage
  * move/recreate the vm somewhere else, with intact archive
  * something else ?

Cheers
Simon


On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 1:18 PM, Simon Blake via Koha-devel wrote:
After mulling that choice for a few minutes, I concluded that 
reverting is the prudent approach - losing subscription changes and 
archives of messages from the past 12 hours is better than 
invalidating every external link into the archive.


So I've reverted the DNS back to the old server while we sort this 
out.  Pathing in to archives will fix itself as DNS caches time out.


Cheers
Simon

On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 12:51 PM, Simon Blake via Koha-devel wrote:
That's a fine question, good spotting!   The new server is a managed 
service (on mailmanlists.net), so we don't get direct access to it.  
That said, even if we did, a redirect would be kind of difficult, as 
it's not just the path - the endpoint HTML file names in the archive 
have also changed (ie


https://oldlists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html

has become

https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2025-February/056688.html

Since Paul is likely asleep, I've contacted the support folks at 
mailmanlists.net to see what they can do (they're in Sydney NSW).


Comparing the two archives, it looks like there hasn't been a posting

Question for you folks, if MML.net come back and say "nothing we can 
do, suck it up cupcake", then what is the feeling of the koha 
project to that?  I can revert the DNS changes back to the old 
server, which will obviously fix all the broken links, but will drop 
any messages sent to the list since the change from the old archive 
(currently only the last two messages on 
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2026-March/date.html#start )


Cheers
Simon

On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 11:41 AM, David Cook via Koha-devel wrote:
By the way, it looks like a lot of old links are broken now like 
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html


Are there plans to do a redirect?

David Cook
Senior Software Engineer
Prosentient Systems
Suite 7.03
6a Glen St
Milsons Point NSW 2061
Australia

Office: 02 9212 0899

-Original Message-
From: Koha-devel  On 
Behalf Of Paul Poulain via Koha-devel

Sent: Wednesday, 18 March 2026 7:29 PM
To: koha-devel 
Subject: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

Hello all,

The https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha has been moved 
from a katipo server to mailmanlists.net  
provider (BibLibre paying the bill).


I have forwarded the admin password to @rangi (Chris C.) , I have 
it too.


@RACHEL = do you want to still be admin ?

@KOHA-DEVEL = anyone else should be ? Something to be 
discussed/decided during the next general meeting ?


Note that, next week during the hackfest, we may move 
@lists.koha-community.org lists to this provider as well.


--
Paul Poulain, Associé-gérant / CEO
BibLibre, Services et logiciels libres pour votre bibliothèque 
BibLibre, Open Source software and services for your library


___
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[email protected]
https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
website : https://www.koha-community.org/
git : https://git.koha-community.org/
bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/



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bugs

Re: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

2026-03-19 Thread Paul Poulain via Koha-devel 

Hi,

What about asking koha@ mailing list ?

(Note that I/BibLibre don't apply to manage the 2nd solution)

Le 19/03/2026 à 05:49, Simon Blake a écrit :
Feedback from mailmanlists.net is that the the url changes are an 
expected side effect of the way they import the existing list - they 
regenerate the archive from scratch from the .mbox file, so they 
assert there is nothing they can do to ensure archive links continue 
to work.    This feels a little arbitrary - the archive is just a tree 
of HTML in the filesystem, there's no obvious reason it could't be 
copied from the old system (as you'd do if you were moving from one 
server to another).


So all opinons welcome.  The current server goes away at the end of 
the month, Koha can


  * continue with maIlmanlists.net and accept the link breakage
  * move/recreate the vm somewhere else, with intact archive
  * something else ?

Cheers
Simon


On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 1:18 PM, Simon Blake via Koha-devel wrote:
After mulling that choice for a few minutes, I concluded that 
reverting is the prudent approach - losing subscription changes and 
archives of messages from the past 12 hours is better than 
invalidating every external link into the archive.


So I've reverted the DNS back to the old server while we sort this 
out.  Pathing in to archives will fix itself as DNS caches time out.


Cheers
Simon

On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 12:51 PM, Simon Blake via Koha-devel wrote:
That's a fine question, good spotting!   The new server is a managed 
service (on mailmanlists.net), so we don't get direct access to it.  
That said, even if we did, a redirect would be kind of difficult, as 
it's not just the path - the endpoint HTML file names in the archive 
have also changed (ie


https://oldlists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html

has become

https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2025-February/056688.html

Since Paul is likely asleep, I've contacted the support folks at 
mailmanlists.net to see what they can do (they're in Sydney NSW).


Comparing the two archives, it looks like there hasn't been a posting

Question for you folks, if MML.net come back and say "nothing we can 
do, suck it up cupcake", then what is the feeling of the koha 
project to that?  I can revert the DNS changes back to the old 
server, which will obviously fix all the broken links, but will drop 
any messages sent to the list since the change from the old archive 
(currently only the last two messages on 
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2026-March/date.html#start )


Cheers
Simon

On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 11:41 AM, David Cook via Koha-devel wrote:
By the way, it looks like a lot of old links are broken now like 
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html


Are there plans to do a redirect?

David Cook
Senior Software Engineer
Prosentient Systems
Suite 7.03
6a Glen St
Milsons Point NSW 2061
Australia

Office: 02 9212 0899

-Original Message-
From: Koha-devel  On 
Behalf Of Paul Poulain via Koha-devel

Sent: Wednesday, 18 March 2026 7:29 PM
To: koha-devel 
Subject: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

Hello all,

The https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha has been moved 
from a katipo server to mailmanlists.net  
provider (BibLibre paying the bill).


I have forwarded the admin password to @rangi (Chris C.) , I have 
it too.


@RACHEL = do you want to still be admin ?

@KOHA-DEVEL = anyone else should be ? Something to be 
discussed/decided during the next general meeting ?


Note that, next week during the hackfest, we may move 
@lists.koha-community.org lists to this provider as well.


--
Paul Poulain, Associé-gérant / CEO
BibLibre, Services et logiciels libres pour votre bibliothèque 
BibLibre, Open Source software and services for your library


___
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[email protected]
https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
website : https://www.koha-community.org/
git : https://git.koha-community.org/
bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/



___
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website : https://www.koha-community.org/
git : https://git.koha-community.org/
bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/



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git : https://git.koha-community.org/
bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/




--
Paul Poulain, Associé-gérant / CEO
BibLibre, Services et logiciels libres pour votre bibliothèque
BibLibre, Open Source software and services for your library
___
Koha-devel mailing list

Re: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

2026-03-18 Thread Simon Blake via Koha-devel 
Feedback from mailmanlists.net is that the the url changes are an expected side 
effect of the way they import the existing list - they regenerate the archive 
from scratch from the .mbox file, so they assert there is nothing they can do 
to ensure archive links continue to work.This feels a little arbitrary - 
the archive is just a tree of HTML in the filesystem, there's no obvious reason 
it could't be copied from the old system (as you'd do if you were moving from 
one server to another).  

So all opinons welcome.  The current server goes away at the end of the month, 
Koha can
 • continue with maIlmanlists.net and accept the link breakage
 • move/recreate the vm somewhere else, with intact archive
 • something else ?
Cheers
Simon


On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 1:18 PM, Simon Blake via Koha-devel wrote:
> After mulling that choice for a few minutes, I concluded that reverting is 
> the prudent approach - losing subscription changes and archives of messages 
> from the past 12 hours is better than invalidating every external link into 
> the archive.
> 
> So I've reverted the DNS back to the old server while we sort this out.  
> Pathing in to archives will fix itself as DNS caches time out.
> 
> Cheers
> Simon
> 
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 12:51 PM, Simon Blake via Koha-devel wrote:
>> That's a fine question, good spotting!   The new server is a managed service 
>> (on mailmanlists.net), so we don't get direct access to it.  That said, even 
>> if we did, a redirect would be kind of difficult, as it's not just the path 
>> - the endpoint HTML file names in the archive have also changed (ie
>> 
>> https://oldlists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html
>> 
>> has become 
>> 
>> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2025-February/056688.html
>> 
>> Since Paul is likely asleep, I've contacted the support folks at 
>> mailmanlists.net to see what they can do (they're in Sydney NSW).  
>> 
>> Comparing the two archives, it looks like there hasn't been a posting
>> 
>> Question for you folks, if MML.net come back and say "nothing we can do, 
>> suck it up cupcake", then what is the feeling of the koha project to that?  
>> I can revert the DNS changes back to the old server, which will obviously 
>> fix all the broken links, but will drop any messages sent to the list since 
>> the change from the old archive (currently only the last two messages on 
>> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2026-March/date.html#start )
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Simon
>> 
>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 11:41 AM, David Cook via Koha-devel wrote:
>>> By the way, it looks like a lot of old links are broken now like 
>>> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html
>>> 
>>> Are there plans to do a redirect?
>>> 
>>> David Cook
>>> Senior Software Engineer
>>> Prosentient Systems
>>> Suite 7.03
>>> 6a Glen St
>>> Milsons Point NSW 2061
>>> Australia
>>> 
>>> Office: 02 9212 0899
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Koha-devel  On Behalf Of 
>>> Paul Poulain via Koha-devel
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 18 March 2026 7:29 PM
>>> To: koha-devel 
>>> Subject: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> 
>>> The https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha has been moved from a 
>>> katipo server to mailmanlists.net provider (BibLibre paying the bill).
>>> 
>>> I have forwarded the admin password to @rangi (Chris C.) , I have it too.
>>> 
>>> @RACHEL = do you want to still be admin ?
>>> 
>>> @KOHA-DEVEL = anyone else should be ? Something to be discussed/decided 
>>> during the next general meeting ?
>>> 
>>> Note that, next week during the hackfest, we may move 
>>> @lists.koha-community.org lists to this provider as well.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Paul Poulain, Associé-gérant / CEO
>>> BibLibre, Services et logiciels libres pour votre bibliothèque BibLibre, 
>>> Open Source software and services for your library
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Koha-devel mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
>>> website : https://www.koha-community.org/
>>> git : https://git.koha-community.org/
>>> bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Koha-devel mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
>> website : https://www.koha-community.org/
>> git : https://git.koha-community.org/
>> bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/
>> 
> 
> ___
> Koha-devel mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> website : https://www.koha-community.org/
> git : https://git.koha-community.org/
> bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/
> 
___
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[email protected]

Re: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

2026-03-18 Thread Simon Blake via Koha-devel 
After mulling that choice for a few minutes, I concluded that reverting is the 
prudent approach - losing subscription changes and archives of messages from 
the past 12 hours is better than invalidating every external link into the 
archive.

So I've reverted the DNS back to the old server while we sort this out.  
Pathing in to archives will fix itself as DNS caches time out.

Cheers
Simon

On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 12:51 PM, Simon Blake via Koha-devel wrote:
> That's a fine question, good spotting!   The new server is a managed service 
> (on mailmanlists.net), so we don't get direct access to it.  That said, even 
> if we did, a redirect would be kind of difficult, as it's not just the path - 
> the endpoint HTML file names in the archive have also changed (ie
> 
> https://oldlists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html
> 
> has become 
> 
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2025-February/056688.html
> 
> Since Paul is likely asleep, I've contacted the support folks at 
> mailmanlists.net to see what they can do (they're in Sydney NSW).  
> 
> Comparing the two archives, it looks like there hasn't been a posting
> 
> Question for you folks, if MML.net come back and say "nothing we can do, suck 
> it up cupcake", then what is the feeling of the koha project to that?  I can 
> revert the DNS changes back to the old server, which will obviously fix all 
> the broken links, but will drop any messages sent to the list since the 
> change from the old archive (currently only the last two messages on 
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2026-March/date.html#start )
> 
> Cheers
> Simon
> 
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 11:41 AM, David Cook via Koha-devel wrote:
>> By the way, it looks like a lot of old links are broken now like 
>> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html
>> 
>> Are there plans to do a redirect?
>> 
>> David Cook
>> Senior Software Engineer
>> Prosentient Systems
>> Suite 7.03
>> 6a Glen St
>> Milsons Point NSW 2061
>> Australia
>> 
>> Office: 02 9212 0899
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Koha-devel  On Behalf Of 
>> Paul Poulain via Koha-devel
>> Sent: Wednesday, 18 March 2026 7:29 PM
>> To: koha-devel 
>> Subject: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> The https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha has been moved from a 
>> katipo server to mailmanlists.net provider (BibLibre paying the bill).
>> 
>> I have forwarded the admin password to @rangi (Chris C.) , I have it too.
>> 
>> @RACHEL = do you want to still be admin ?
>> 
>> @KOHA-DEVEL = anyone else should be ? Something to be discussed/decided 
>> during the next general meeting ?
>> 
>> Note that, next week during the hackfest, we may move 
>> @lists.koha-community.org lists to this provider as well.
>> 
>> --
>> Paul Poulain, Associé-gérant / CEO
>> BibLibre, Services et logiciels libres pour votre bibliothèque BibLibre, 
>> Open Source software and services for your library
>> 
>> ___
>> Koha-devel mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
>> website : https://www.koha-community.org/
>> git : https://git.koha-community.org/
>> bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/
>> 
> 
> ___
> Koha-devel mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> website : https://www.koha-community.org/
> git : https://git.koha-community.org/
> bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/
> 
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bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/

Re: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

2026-03-18 Thread Simon Blake via Koha-devel 
That's a fine question, good spotting!   The new server is a managed service 
(on mailmanlists.net), so we don't get direct access to it.  That said, even if 
we did, a redirect would be kind of difficult, as it's not just the path - the 
endpoint HTML file names in the archive have also changed (ie

https://oldlists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html

has become 

https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2025-February/056688.html

Since Paul is likely asleep, I've contacted the support folks at 
mailmanlists.net to see what they can do (they're in Sydney NSW).  

Comparing the two archives, it looks like there hasn't been a posting

Question for you folks, if MML.net come back and say "nothing we can do, suck 
it up cupcake", then what is the feeling of the koha project to that?  I can 
revert the DNS changes back to the old server, which will obviously fix all the 
broken links, but will drop any messages sent to the list since the change from 
the old archive (currently only the last two messages on 
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2026-March/date.html#start )

Cheers
Simon

On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 11:41 AM, David Cook via Koha-devel wrote:
> By the way, it looks like a lot of old links are broken now like 
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html
> 
> Are there plans to do a redirect?
> 
> David Cook
> Senior Software Engineer
> Prosentient Systems
> Suite 7.03
> 6a Glen St
> Milsons Point NSW 2061
> Australia
> 
> Office: 02 9212 0899
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Koha-devel  On Behalf Of 
> Paul Poulain via Koha-devel
> Sent: Wednesday, 18 March 2026 7:29 PM
> To: koha-devel 
> Subject: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> The https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha has been moved from a 
> katipo server to mailmanlists.net provider (BibLibre paying the bill).
> 
> I have forwarded the admin password to @rangi (Chris C.) , I have it too.
> 
> @RACHEL = do you want to still be admin ?
> 
> @KOHA-DEVEL = anyone else should be ? Something to be discussed/decided 
> during the next general meeting ?
> 
> Note that, next week during the hackfest, we may move 
> @lists.koha-community.org lists to this provider as well.
> 
> --
> Paul Poulain, Associé-gérant / CEO
> BibLibre, Services et logiciels libres pour votre bibliothèque BibLibre, Open 
> Source software and services for your library
> 
> ___
> Koha-devel mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> website : https://www.koha-community.org/
> git : https://git.koha-community.org/
> bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/
> 
___
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bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/

Re: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

2026-03-18 Thread David Cook via Koha-devel 
By the way, it looks like a lot of old links are broken now like 
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html

Are there plans to do a redirect?

David Cook
Senior Software Engineer
Prosentient Systems
Suite 7.03
6a Glen St
Milsons Point NSW 2061
Australia

Office: 02 9212 0899

-Original Message-
From: Koha-devel  On Behalf Of 
Paul Poulain via Koha-devel
Sent: Wednesday, 18 March 2026 7:29 PM
To: koha-devel 
Subject: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

Hello all,

The https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha has been moved from a 
katipo server to mailmanlists.net provider (BibLibre paying the bill).

I have forwarded the admin password to @rangi (Chris C.) , I have it too.

@RACHEL = do you want to still be admin ?

@KOHA-DEVEL = anyone else should be ? Something to be discussed/decided during 
the next general meeting ?

Note that, next week during the hackfest, we may move @lists.koha-community.org 
lists to this provider as well.

--
Paul Poulain, Associé-gérant / CEO
BibLibre, Services et logiciels libres pour votre bibliothèque BibLibre, Open 
Source software and services for your library

___
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Re: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ?

2026-03-18 Thread Simon Blake via Koha-devel 
Rachel isn't on koha-devel, so she's unlikely to see your question.  I asked 
her last night, she has no particular desire to continue to be a listadmin - 25 
years is more than enough service, pass the baton to somebody closer to the 
project.

Cheers
Simon

On Wed, Mar 18, 2026, at 9:28 PM, Paul Poulain via Koha-devel wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> The https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha has been moved from a 
> katipo server to mailmanlists.net provider (BibLibre paying the bill).
> 
> I have forwarded the admin password to @rangi (Chris C.) , I have it too.
> 
> @RACHEL = do you want to still be admin ?
> 
> @KOHA-DEVEL = anyone else should be ? Something to be discussed/decided 
> during the next general meeting ?
> 
> Note that, next week during the hackfest, we may move 
> @lists.koha-community.org lists to this provider as well.
> 
> -- 
> Paul Poulain, Associé-gérant / CEO
> BibLibre, Services et logiciels libres pour votre bibliothèque
> BibLibre, Open Source software and services for your library
> ___
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> bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/
> 
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