Re: need a steer-committee report to the whole group? [was Re: Server quote]
For what it's worth, IMnsHO, On Fri, 2007-02-16 at 13:05 -0800, James G. Sack (jim) wrote: [...] > I specifically suggest giving thought to justification/rationale to > assure the whole that the smaller committee has been both thoughtful and > responsible, and thereby (hopefully) avoid inviting open-ended rehash of > considerations already given. > > > For devil's advocacy purposes, questions that might need answering may > include: > > - [gulp] why should we spend 1/3 to 1/2 our bankroll on this server? > The server IS about 1/3 to 1/2 of the benefit I get from KPLUG (the biggest benefit being you folks around who can prevent relative beginners like Yours Truly from going in bad directions when trying out new stuff). > - [overkill] could not a smaller expenditure achieve the same benefits? > One important benefit of KPLUG for me is that I don't have to worry (for now) how to configure a server, and where to get reliable parts for it for a reasonable price. On a gut level, I would think that the server is too essential to try and go for a cheap solution. > - [appropriate] are there better ways to contribute to our mission > (promotion, advocacy, education) that compete for these funds? > If, at this time, I can make any useful contribution at all, I need the server, preferably a faster one with the links to specific contents working. > - [mob-democracy] shouldn't we just spend it all on a party for the more > direct benefit of the very people who fed the kitty? Aren't we having that at least twice a month already? - Christoph -- KPLUG-Steer@kernel-panic.org http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-steer
Re: need a steer-committee report to the whole group? [was Re: Server quote]
James G. Sack (jim) wrote: Skipping the question of whether we should aim high-end or low-end, I would like to ask for a steer-poll on whether (and/or how) we should submit a recommendation (whatever becomes the consensus, here -- possibly even multiple choice) to the main list along with a couple of paragraphs of justification/rationale. We should present our good justification to the group. However ... It should be made clear to the membership that the time for discussion has passed and that we are at the approve/disapprove stage. We are already discussing this openly. We have told people in a meeting that we are discussing this on kplug-steer. We have told people on the main list that we are discussing this on kplug-steer. Failure to participate does not merit a reward. I'm even a little torn about presenting this to the group at large given the number of Cheap Bastards(tm). However, I'm going to have faith that the Cheap Bastards(tm) have enough respect and trust in those folks doing the work of running the group that they will actually take the time to consider the implications. I specifically suggest giving thought to justification/rationale to assure the whole that the smaller committee has been both thoughtful and responsible, and thereby (hopefully) avoid inviting open-ended rehash of considerations already given. I'm not convinced about discussion. We can certainly take *questions*, but, again, open ended discussion was done online. It's not like we're trying to hide anything. - [gulp] why should we spend 1/3 to 1/2 our bankroll on this server? Partially, we *need* to use the money. Non-profit organizations are not supposed to accumulate large surpluses. - [overkill] could not a smaller expenditure achieve the same benefits? Using Neil's choices as a baseline (which I quite like, actually): Almost 1/3 of the purchase price is RAM. 1/3 is the chassis, mobo, power supply. 1/3 is *2* dual core Xeons. There's not a lot of slop in this. That machine should have enough headroom to run for quite a few years. - [appropriate] are there better ways to contribute to our mission (promotion, advocacy, education) that compete for these funds? Maybe. But we have asked people many times to suggest such expenditures. About the only thing we ever managed to agree upon was to buy a projector bulb for SDCOE, who didn't want us do that. Sigh. People have thought about buying some equipment for KPLUG. But there is the whole "who is going to sign up to bring it to every meeting and store it in between" problem. Finally, even if someone were to step forward with some other idea, such an expenditure still benefits a small number of people rather than the group as a whole and will likely meet resistance. It's one of the reasons why our treasury is the value it is. - [mob-democracy] shouldn't we just spend it all on a party for the more direct benefit of the very people who fed the kitty? Well, given that most of this comes from auctioning off books and donations for far under value, the people who are really feeding the kitty are O'Reilly and some of the other book publishers. ;) -a -- KPLUG-Steer@kernel-panic.org http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-steer
Re: need a steer-committee report to the whole group? [was Re: Server quote]
Joshua Penix wrote: One further thing to consider might be what our extra server capacity could be used for. No matter what we buy, it's going to be more than necessary to run our single copy of Plone and the mailing lists. So is there anything we could do that would benefit the community (either ours locally or OSS in general), given a bunch of CPU and storage and the ability to virtualize? This is the big advantage from my point of view. We are a Linux user group. Part of our goal is education. Part of that is trying new things. Most people do not have access to a 64-bit machine. Most people do not have access to a machine which can do virtualization. These are important upcoming technologies. KPLUG would be one of the few places they could gain some experience. In addition, most of us are, quite rightly, very leery of touching the configuration of sparky to just "try something out" even if it's as "simple" as an upgrade. Having virtualized instances really helps that. One thing I would note is that virtualization eats RAM and disk. Lots. 4GB RAM is a good start. 200GB disk is a bit small. I have been playing with CentOS the last couple of days and a fairly standard install chews up 3GB off the top. That means the images would be about 8-10GB per instance or so. 200GB will disappear pretty fast. -a -- KPLUG-Steer@kernel-panic.org http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-steer
Re: need a steer-committee report to the whole group? [was Re: Server quote]
On Feb 16, 2007, at 1:05 PM, James G. Sack (jim) wrote: Skipping the question of whether we should aim high-end or low-end, I would like to ask for a steer-poll on whether (and/or how) we should submit a recommendation (whatever becomes the consensus, here -- possibly even multiple choice) to the main list along with a couple of paragraphs of justification/rationale. I conducted a steer-poll once, and the only response I got was "Mo..." ;) I think your suggestion is very wise. We should carefully consider and describe what benefits we're getting and why we're recommending the purchase. One further thing to consider might be what our extra server capacity could be used for. No matter what we buy, it's going to be more than necessary to run our single copy of Plone and the mailing lists. So is there anything we could do that would benefit the community (either ours locally or OSS in general), given a bunch of CPU and storage and the ability to virtualize? -- Joshua Penixhttp://www.binarytribe.com Binary Tribe Linux Integration Services & Network Consulting -- KPLUG-Steer@kernel-panic.org http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-steer
