KR> weight and balance

2015-08-20 Thread John Martindale
Hi Sid

It is not that the centre of lift for the RAF48 wing has been inaccurately
mapped. That would have been well calculated by the wing designers (not Stu
Robinson) and has little or nothing to do with the aircraft it is put on.
Rather the issue is that the CoG envelope for the KR2 was set too broadly
and perhaps somewhat arbitrarily at 8" to 16".

We know that flight in the rear 2" or so has whiskers on it and in fact in
Australia in the early days the authorities downright banned it.

However, this does not mean that the forward limit at 8" is also incorrect.
I think reducing it to 6" may be ill advised without proper analysis and you
may find difficulty in raising the nose at low airspeeds such as in the
flare.

As I have explained previously you cannot simply equate Centre of Lift with
Centre of Gravity because the balance is the outcome of four vectors, the
other two being thrust and drag. Further, the CoL varies with Angle of
Attack and at the stall moves backwards lending support to a nose down
tendency that aids in recovery. If the CoL is actually 2" further forward as
you claim then this design aspect would be compromised.

I suspect the problem with your aircraft is not the CoL but the fact that it
was tail heavy and too far back in the envelope as you have correctly
addressed. It is not necessarily to do with an inaccurate mapping of the
CoL. Please do not blame the designer for what is essentially a construction
error. There are many KR2s flying without a problem and have been for years.


Cheers John

John Martindale
29 Jane Circuit
Toormina NSW 2452
Australia

ph:61 2 6658 4767
m:0403 432179
email:john_martindale at bigpond.com
web site: 

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Sid Wood via
KRnet
Sent: Wednesday, 19 August 2015 5:54 AM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Cc: Sid Wood
Subject: Re: KR> weight and balance

The KR-2 Plans have a serious error regarding Weight & Balance.  The 
designer, Stu Robinson, chose the RAF48 Center
of Lift 2 inches to far forward..snip



-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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KR> weight and B result.

2015-08-20 Thread stefkr2 at kpnmail.nl
Everybody thanks for the reply.
We gonne use the 8 till 14 range. I think with our leadingedge fuel thanks this 
should not a problem.
Then result of the weight mesurment is 198 kg without engine. But we 
calculaties the pant and filter in it. All the instrument And seatbelts radio's 
enz enz. 
I think we can be happy with this result.
Now the calculations can be started. I can use the sheet of the kr net. ( with 
my own dimension)
Thanks
Stef


--
Steph and his dad are building the KR-2S see   
http://www.masttotaalconcept.nl/kr2




>Origineel Bericht
>Van : krnet at list.krnet.org
>Datum : 20/08/2015 01:27
>Aan : krnet at list.krnet.org
>Cc : john_martindale at bigpond.com
>Onderwerp : Re: KR> weight and balance
>
>Hi Sid
>
>It is not that the centre of lift for the RAF48 wing has been inaccurately
>mapped. That would have been well calculated by the wing designers (not Stu
>Robinson) and has little or nothing to do with the aircraft it is put on.
>Rather the issue is that the CoG envelope for the KR2 was set too broadly
>and perhaps somewhat arbitrarily at 8" to 16".
>
>We know that flight in the rear 2" or so has whiskers on it and in fact in
>Australia in the early days the authorities downright banned it.
>
>However, this does not mean that the forward limit at 8" is also incorrect.
>I think reducing it to 6" may be ill advised without proper analysis and you
>may find difficulty in raising the nose at low airspeeds such as in the
>flare.
>
>As I have explained previously you cannot simply equate Centre of Lift with
>Centre of Gravity because the balance is the outcome of four vectors, the
>other two being thrust and drag. Further, the CoL varies with Angle of
>Attack and at the stall moves backwards lending support to a nose down
>tendency that aids in recovery. If the CoL is actually 2" further forward as
>you claim then this design aspect would be compromised.
>
>I suspect the problem with your aircraft is not the CoL but the fact that it
>was tail heavy and too far back in the envelope as you have correctly
>addressed. It is not necessarily to do with an inaccurate mapping of the
>CoL. Please do not blame the designer for what is essentially a construction
>error. There are many KR2s flying without a problem and have been for years.
>
>
>Cheers John
>
>John Martindale
>29 Jane Circuit
>Toormina NSW 2452
>Australia
> 
>ph:61 2 6658 4767
>m:0403 432179
>email:john_martindale at bigpond.com
>web site: 
>
>-Original Message-
>From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Sid Wood via
>KRnet
>Sent: Wednesday, 19 August 2015 5:54 AM
>To: krnet at list.krnet.org
>Cc: Sid Wood
>Subject: Re: KR> weight and balance
>
>The KR-2 Plans have a serious error regarding Weight & Balance.  The 
>designer, Stu Robinson, chose the RAF48 Center
>of Lift 2 inches to far forward..snip
>
>
>
>-
>No virus found in this message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 2015.0.6125 / Virus Database: 4401/10469 - Release Date: 08/19/15
>
>
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