KR> engine update

[Oscar Zuniga via KRnet]

Larry; it's always refreshing to read an engine success story.  Most of them 
seem to read like mystery movies or horror stories when cases are cracked and 
the insides are exposed, especially when the engines are older and have passed 
through several sets of hands since being taken off of a certified aircraft.  
Yours sounds like what every cared-for engine should be... just a no-surprises, 
relaxed, by-the-book overhaul.


I enjoyed renting and flying a 182 back when I was in Texas and flying on 
business trips.  The airplane belonged to a group of A who made their living 
wrenching on radial-engined cargo planes, mostly military surplus and post-war 
Curtis C46s, DC-3s, Convair 240s that smuggled appliances and electronics into 
Mexico at night in the 70s.  That 182 was very plain and basic but it could 
carry anything you could fit into it and it was one stout airplane.  When I 
first saw the logs, I saw that the Continental O-470-R engine was well past 
TBO, maybe 2500 hrs on an engine that had a 1500-1700 hr TBO by the book, but 
the owners maintained it and they never felt the need to overhaul it just 
because of what the tach time showed.  The reason is because of what you've 
found with your engine.


By the way, flying that 182 with normally-aspirated O-470 in cruise one fine 
summer afternoon in warm and humid south Texas, I experienced carb ice in 
flight for the first time in anything other than a J-3.  When the sputtering 
started, I thought I should grab a pencil and notepad and start writing my last 
will and testament real quick, but then on second thought I figured I should do 
something useful like switch tanks, flip on the fuel boost pump, check the oil 
pressure, and... and... since nothing else worked, maybe pull carb heat?  
Ye-!!  That smoothed out the engine!  Beautiful clear skies, I was between 
summer cumulus puffies up at maybe 5500-6500 trimmed in level cruise and maybe 
65-70% power, and carb ice was forming.  I don't know what carb those engines 
have, maybe a Marvel-Schebler MA-4, but whatever the case- it can happen, and 
happen quite suddenly.


Oscar Zuniga

Medford, OR
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KR> engine update

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

I found time today to remove the rods from the crank and do an 
amateur measurement of the crank with a digital micrometer.  Crank is 
standard and right at "new spec's with zero abrasion or wear on any 
of the bearing locations.  I'm guessing this crank could have gone 
another 2400 hours without a problem, with proper maintenance and 
care of course.  Anyway, now I know.  I'll have it checked for "out 
of round", flange runout, and dye tested for cracks and if it  passes 
I can start the assembly process.


Film at 11:00...

Larry Flesner


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Re: KR> engine update

[Joe. E. Wallace via KRnet]

Larry, was our teachers on “pick it up, or else”   sisters   jw

> On Jan 17, 2017, at 07:11, Larry Flesner via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
> At 12:02 AM 1/17/2017, you wrote:
>> I do not see an

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Re: KR> engine update

[Jeff Scott via KRnet]

 
 Clearly you took good notes when you visited my shop!  -Jeff Scott

---
Cc: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildr...@hotmail.com>
Subject: KR> engine update
Larry: I see your problem immediately. Your hangar is too clean for you to get 
any serious work done. I do not see *any* tools on the floor, *no* old gasket 
scraps, dripped oil, pieces of snipped safety wire, errant washers, used and 
bent cotter pins, or any other evidence of actual progress on your engine 
removal and overhaul. I do not see any masking tape with handwritten labels on 
any wires or cables on the firewall, no yellow note-pad with items to remember 
to take care of in reverse order when re-assembling, so it's obvious that 
you'll never get everything put back in the proper place even if you get the 
engine overhauled in the first place. Which is questionable, since the short 
block is not sitting on an old blanket, some old sofa pillows, or a worn-out 
6.00x6 tire. These things are necessary for a proper engine rebuild, so you 
might want to get busy and get your hangar in order.


You need to take a serious look at getting your hangar disorganized so you can 
make measurable progress. And PS, a light coating of spilled Aeroshell 50 with 
about 20 hours on it will help cut the glare from the overhead lights off that 
clean floor. Just sayin'.


Oscar Zuniga

Medford, OR

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Re: KR> engine update

[Paul Visk via KRnet]

Oscar wrote: At 12:02 AM 1/17/2017, you wrote:>I do not see any masking tape 
with handwritten labels on any wires 
>or cables on the firewall, no yellow note-pad with items to remember 
>to take care of in reverse order when re-assembling,---

My daughter in law's father how is a A inspector at Delta took me on a 
personal tour of the maintenance complex in Atlanta. It was amazing at there 
engine overhaul stations. They had shadow boards for every part of an engine in 
the order it was removed with part numbers for quick reference.  It was very 
organized. 
Paul Visk Belleville Il.
618-406-4705
 Original message From: Larry Flesner via KRnet 
<krnet@list.krnet.org> Date: 1/17/17  7:11 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: KRnet 
<krnet@list.krnet.org> Cc: Larry Flesner <fles...@frontier.com> Subject: Re: 
KR> engine update 
At 12:02 AM 1/17/2017, you wrote:
>I do not see any masking tape with handwritten labels on any wires 
>or cables on the firewall, no yellow note-pad with items to remember 
>to take care of in reverse order when re-assembling,
+

You've got a point, Oscar.  I'm not concerned about the wires and 
hoses, they're pretty obvious, but  there were several items I made 
"mental" notes about reverse order on install and which bolts had 
tabs attached for securing cables, etc. and the "mental" notes are a 
bit hard to read this morning.  Maybe another cup of coffee and a 
sweet roll will remove some of the blurriness...

As for the hangar, I'm lucky to be in the FBO heated and well lit 
hangar and the cleanliness is just a matter of picking up after 
myself.  After 49 years of marriage some training is hard to ignore. :-)

Larry Flesner


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Re: KR> engine update

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

At 12:02 AM 1/17/2017, you wrote:
I do not see any masking tape with handwritten labels on any wires 
or cables on the firewall, no yellow note-pad with items to remember 
to take care of in reverse order when re-assembling,

+

You've got a point, Oscar.  I'm not concerned about the wires and 
hoses, they're pretty obvious, but  there were several items I made 
"mental" notes about reverse order on install and which bolts had 
tabs attached for securing cables, etc. and the "mental" notes are a 
bit hard to read this morning.  Maybe another cup of coffee and a 
sweet roll will remove some of the blurriness...


As for the hangar, I'm lucky to be in the FBO heated and well lit 
hangar and the cleanliness is just a matter of picking up after 
myself.  After 49 years of marriage some training is hard to ignore. :-)


Larry Flesner


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KR> engine update

[Oscar Zuniga via KRnet]

Larry: I see your problem immediately.  Your hangar is too clean for you to get 
any serious work done.  I do not see *any* tools on the floor, *no* old gasket 
scraps, dripped oil, pieces of snipped safety wire, errant washers, used and 
bent cotter pins, or any other evidence of actual progress on your engine 
removal and overhaul.  I do not see any masking tape with handwritten labels on 
any wires or cables on the firewall, no yellow note-pad with items to remember 
to take care of in reverse order when re-assembling, so it's obvious that 
you'll never get everything put back in the proper place even if you get the 
engine overhauled in the first place.  Which is questionable, since the short 
block is not sitting on an old blanket, some old sofa pillows, or a worn-out 
6.00x6 tire.  These things are necessary for a proper engine rebuild, so you 
might want to get busy and get your hangar in order.


You need to take a serious look at getting your hangar disorganized so you can 
make measurable progress.  And PS, a light coating of spilled Aeroshell 50 with 
about 20 hours on it will help cut the glare from the overhead lights off that 
clean floor.  Just sayin'.


Oscar Zuniga

Medford, OR
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KR> engine update

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

I can't believe the progress I made this weekend in about 8 hours of 
time.  The only help I had was to drive out the piston pins and lift 
the case off the mount.  I hope to split the case in the next few days.


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8995.JPG

Larry Flesner


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KR> Engine Update / Roy's Fifth Bearing

[Larry H.]

Dear Mark,
You have shown all of us what persistence is, as EAA says, The Can Do Spirit. 
I, like you, think Roy has a real winner with his 5th bearing, machining and 
engine building skills. I hope you will be flying consistently for many years 
to come with no more engine distractions.
Larry H.





From: Mark Jones flyk...@charter.net


Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI
E-mail: flyk...@charter.net
Web: www.flykr2s.com

Ladies and Gents,
  Last evening was a beautiful time to go for a flight here in Wisconsin so I 
took to the air about 6 PM and climbed to 8,500' and played around on top of 
the clouds for an hour and a half. Being on top in a KR rates among the highest 
forms of entertainment in my play book. 

KR> Engine Update / Roy's Fifth Bearing

[Mark Jones]

Ladies and Gents,
   Last evening was a beautiful time to go for a flight here in Wisconsin so I 
took to the air about 6 PM and climbed to 8,500' and played around on top of 
the clouds for an hour and a half. Being on top in a KR rates among the highest 
forms of entertainment in my play book. Being on top of a cloud deck allows you 
to really sense the feeling of your speed since the clouds give you a 
relatively close reference points. I honestly can not think of anything else I 
had rather be doing other than flying in a machine that I built. 

  As most of you know, I had Roy Szarafinski build me a short block with his 
fifth bearing over the winter months. Roy's expertise and dedication to produce 
the highest quality Corvair engine possible for me has proven to be a very 
smart decision on my part. Roy is the type of person who will go the extra mile 
to make sure he has achieved this task for the end user. Last night I crossed 
the 20 flight hour mark on my new engine. I had been fighting a very minor 
misting oil leak but I no longer have that problem. My engine was totally dry 
after the flight last night. I did have to replace the main seal to stop the 
leak. Fortunately, Roy's design of the fifth bearing allows for a very quick 
and easy seal replacement. His fifth bearing is very well designed and really 
adds to the beauty and integrity of a Corvair engine. Many of the pilots at my 
airport have examined Roy's fifth bearing and every one of them commended the 
quality of it's design, not to mention the extra safety it adds to the engine. 
At this point I am totally confident I have an engine that I can rely on. I 
have absolutely no reservations now when I turn that switch and watch her come 
to life. Keep building, you too will be rewarded as I have been. Thank You

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI
E-mail: flyk...@charter.net
Web: www.flykr2s.com

KR> Engine Update

[Larry H.]

Mark,
Based on the dates below, looks like you missed deer hitting season ! well, 
there's always next year.   ; )
Seriously I am proud of you for your perseverance in getting back into the air. 
You are a real inspiration, heck I think you have had your share of misfortune, 
I believe it is now time for you to fly problem free !! Have fun bro.
Larry H.





 I have not flown since Nov 1st '08 so I am really anxious to get back in the 
air which will be real soon now. 

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI
E-mail: flyk...@charter.net
Web: www.flykr2s.com

KR> Engine Update

[Mark Jones]

>Maybe the correct spelling would be 'mic'd'. I've been using micrometers 
>for
>over 30 years and that is how I've always seen it written, as well as
>writing it myself.

>Happy flying soon! :-)
>Mark W.


Sounds good to me. Thanks for clarifying that for us. I hate incorrect 
grammar, spelling and punctuation even if I do make mistakes myself.


Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI
E-mail: flyk...@charter.net
Web: www.flykr2s.com

KR> Engine Update

[Mark]

Maybe the correct spelling would be 'mic'd'. I've been using micrometers for
over 30 years and that is how I've always seen it written, as well as
writing it myself.

Happy flying soon! :-)
Mark W.
N952MW

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Mark Jones
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 11:29 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Engine Update

>How do you "mice" an engine? :-)

>Is that something I should consider doing to my 0-200? :-)

>Larry Flesner

I would highly recommend it. :-)
If you do not know what it is here is a definition: Miced is a little 
different from "mice" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micrometer



Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI
E-mail: flyk...@charter.net
Web: www.flykr2s.com



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13:27:00

KR> Engine Update

[Mark Jones]

>How do you "mice" an engine? :-)

>Is that something I should consider doing to my 0-200? :-)

>Larry Flesner

I would highly recommend it. :-)
If you do not know what it is here is a definition: Miced is a little 
different from "mice" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micrometer



Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI
E-mail: flyk...@charter.net
Web: www.flykr2s.com

KR> Engine Update

[bobby burington]

I know where there is an old engine block in a friends barn that I think has 
been "mice"d in every cylinder !. But we haven't tested it yet.  :-D

Bobby Burington


--- On Sun, 3/8/09, Larry Flesner <fles...@verizon.net> wrote:

> From: Larry Flesner <fles...@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: KR> Engine Update
> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
> Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 9:05 AM
> >  checked for tolerances, plastigauged, miced, measured,
> tested and retested.
> >Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> ++
> 
> Mark,
> 
> How do you "mice" an engine? :-)
> 
> Is that something I should consider doing to my 0-200? :-)
> 
> Larry Flesner
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
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> krnet-le...@mylist.net
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> http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Engine Update

[Larry Flesner]

>  checked for tolerances, plastigauged, miced, measured, tested and retested.
>Mark Jones (N886MJ)
++

Mark,

How do you "mice" an engine? :-)

Is that something I should consider doing to my 0-200? :-)

Larry Flesner

KR> Engine Update

[Mark Jones]

For those of you following my progress since my forced landing upon leaving the 
2006 KR Gathering, the following is how things have progressed. After getting 
the plane home on a trailer, I proceeded to rebuild my carburetor by doing a 
through cleaning and installing a new gasket and diaphragm. I had virtually 
convinced myself that this was the culprit of my sudden engine loss at 6500' 
and 75 miles out of Mount Vernon (MVN). This past Saturday I was finally ready 
to start the engine and do some run up testing. She started on the first turn 
of the prop and ran smooth at idle. I let her stay there till she warmed up 
good. I watched the idle fuel/air mixture and I was getting a green light 
indication with occasional drop into the lean (yellow bar) zone. I thought this 
a little odd. Once she warmed up, I slowly increased power and immediately 
noticed the engine was running rough and the roughness was really pronounced at 
and above 2000 rpm. That is when I decided to do a compression check. This link 
to my web page will show you all what I found. http://flykr2s.com/photo.html  
All comments and questions are welcome.

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI
My Web site: http://www.flykr2s.com/
Mailto:flyk...@wi.rr.com

KR> Engine Update

[Mark Jones]

Yea, some folks get the whole message and some don't. I do not know what's up 
with that. Here is the link to what I have found. http://flykr2s.com/photo.html

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI
My Web site: http://www.flykr2s.com/
Mailto:flyk...@wi.rr.com




> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Human [mailto:rahu...@ev1.net]
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:25 AM
> To: Mark Jones
> Subject: Re: KR> Engine Update
> 
> 
> Mark - so you will know - note - message is cut-off
> 
> Rick Human
> Houston, Texas
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mark Jones" <mjo...@muellersales.com>
> To: "CorvAircraft (E-mail)" <corvaircr...@mylist.net>; "KR 
> Net (E-mail)"
> <kr...@mylist.net>
> Cc: "William Wynne (E-mail)" <william...@aol.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:17 AM
> Subject: KR> Engine Update
> 
> 
> > For those of you following my progress since my forced landing upon
> leaving the 2006 KR Gathering, the following is how things 
> have progressed.
> After getting the plane home on a trailer, I proceeded to rebuild my
> carburetor by doing a through cleaning and installing a new gasket and
> diaphragm. I had virtually convinced myself that this was the 
> culprit of my
> sudden engine loss at 6500' and 75 miles out of Mount Vernon 
> (MVN). This
> past Saturday I was finally ready to start the engine and do 
> some run up
> testing. She started on the first turn of the prop and ran 
> smooth at idle. I
> let her stay there till she warmed up good. I watched the 
> idle fuel/air
> mixture and I was getting a green light indication with 
> occasional drop into
> the lean (yellow bar) zone. I thought this a little odd. Once 
> she warmed up,
> I slowly increased power and immediately noticed the engine 
> was running
> rough and the roughness was really pronounced at and above 
> 2000 rpm. That is
> when I decided to do a compression check. This link to my web page
> > Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> > Wales, WI
> > My Web site: http://www.flykr2s.com/
> > Mailto:flyk...@wi.rr.com
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at 
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> >
> 
> 

KR> Engine Update

[bob]

I can think of a lot of problems this could cause, but given the
fact that the other 5 cylinders had good compression, why would
this cause complete power loss?  Rough running absolutely, but
total engine out?

Bob

KR> Engine Update

[Mark Jones]

I am not a mechanic, but talking with others, the theory is there is a
possibility that with the intake being held completely open that it
could cause backpressure in the intake starving the number 3 and 1
cylinders from fuel, which would mean that the engine was basically
running on the left bank of cylinders which would cause considerable
loss of power. Note: this is a theory so if any of you have a better one
please speak up.

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI
My Web site: http://www.flykr2s.com/
Mailto:flyk...@wi.rr.com


> -Original Message-
> From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
> Behalf Of bob
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:42 AM
> To: KRnet
> Subject: Re: KR> Engine Update
> 
> 
> I can think of a lot of problems this could cause, but given the
> fact that the other 5 cylinders had good compression, why would
> this cause complete power loss?  Rough running absolutely, but
> total engine out?
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
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> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 

KR> Engine Update

[pe...@heroic.co.uk]

> BTW: I did not have a total power outage. The power suddenly dropped to
> idle and I was able to get surges of power up to 1500 rpm but could not
> keep it there. Upon landing, I taxied in.
>

If you have a weak  fuel to one or two cylinders, you would probably have
blow-torched a piston - been there, done that with out of balance su carbs
on an old MG Midget, so I don't fancy your poor air to one cyl theory, I
think it sounds more like your original fuel pump/blockage theory.

I have heard of instances where a bit of grit in the fuel line acts like a
valve, as you draw fuel, it gets sucked up the line until it reaches a
narrowing where it blocks the fuel off, when the power is cut, it drops
back down the tube, and fuel flow returns to normal...

Another thought, blocked vent? problem with that as a theory is it is
unlikely  to happen when you are on the ground, however you could
prove/disprove that one by running the engine with the fuel cap off.

Pete

KR> Engine Update

[pe...@heroic.co.uk]

Ah,

I see in mails I read after sending below, you have a blowing inlet valve.

Depending on how open it sticks, it can have dramatic impact, as far more
exhaust will get blown back into the intake tract - the burnt gas volume
is several times the volume of the original charge ( hot gases expand
directly proportional to temp in degrees absolute so if burnt gas temp is
800c, volume is (800+273)/293). This dead gas will then get sucked into
other cylinders. I guess on a flat 6 you would probably end up with the
whole bank continually re-using this burnt gas.

I would expect the engine would idle fine, and would only start to show
problems as you bring up the power.

The most common way to get a stuck inlet valve is injested crud from
unfiltered air. Usually ehaust valves stick cos of damage caused by weak
mixture and/or burning oil

Pete



> If you have a weak  fuel to one or two cylinders, you would probably
> have blow-torched a piston - been there, done that with out of balance
> su carbs on an old MG Midget, so I don't fancy your poor air to one cyl
> theory, I think it sounds more like your original fuel pump/blockage
> theory.
>

KR> Engine Update

[Mark Jones]

Hey Pete,
Thanks for your thoughts. Did you see this link?
http://www.flykr2s.com/photo.html

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI
My Web site: http://www.flykr2s.com/
Mailto:flyk...@wi.rr.com


> -Original Message-
> From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
> Behalf Of pe...@heroic.co.uk
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 10:16 AM
> To: kr...@mylist.net
> Subject: RE: KR> Engine Update
> 
> 
> Ah,
> 
> I see in mails I read after sending below, you have a blowing 
> inlet valve.
> 
> Depending on how open it sticks, it can have dramatic impact, 
> as far more
> exhaust will get blown back into the intake tract - the burnt 
> gas volume
> is several times the volume of the original charge ( hot gases expand
> directly proportional to temp in degrees absolute so if burnt 
> gas temp is
> 800c, volume is (800+273)/293). This dead gas will then get 
> sucked into
> other cylinders. I guess on a flat 6 you would probably end 
> up with the
> whole bank continually re-using this burnt gas.
> 
> I would expect the engine would idle fine, and would only 
> start to show
> problems as you bring up the power.
> 
> The most common way to get a stuck inlet valve is injested crud from
> unfiltered air. Usually ehaust valves stick cos of damage 
> caused by weak
> mixture and/or burning oil
> 
> Pete
> 
> 
> 
> > If you have a weak  fuel to one or two cylinders, you would probably
> > have blow-torched a piston - been there, done that with out 
> of balance
> > su carbs on an old MG Midget, so I don't fancy your poor 
> air to one cyl
> > theory, I think it sounds more like your original fuel pump/blockage
> > theory.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 

KR> Engine update

[Colin & Bev Rainey]

Well, finally had time today to drive over and pickup my motor mount from 
William Wynne's hangar. He has had it ready since Monday but work kept me from 
getting it until today. I ordered it just before Sun n Fun knowing that it 
would be after the flyin before it was ready. Clark's Corvair running behind on 
the OT 10 cams delayed me a month waiting, so I had told WW to not be in a 
hurry about the mount. Not thinking about the summer being that busy, WW got 
committed to two other flyin's and Oshkosh, so only in the last week has the 
hangar crew gotten back in town in full to get back to normal and begin the 
routine of engine support again. As usual they were all in the middle of some 
development work on several different engines at the same time, one of which 
was a re-build of a Corvair motor that the owner said " It has all kinds of 
special stuff inside!".  It was so special that it would not even run. Kevin 
and Gus had just finished going ALL the way through it to make it right, and in 
Kevin's words, "It would be easier to explain what I didn't have to change or 
fix." The Zodiac is sporting a new Sensenich wooden prop that almost looked 
like it was dripping clear lacquer. WW also showed me the new KR cowling molds 
and told me that his mold guy is getting 10 cowlings ready as we speak. I just 
missed Bill Clapp as he was leaving to fly back to Valdosta sporting the new 
cowling, so you guys at the Gathering will see it before me I think.  WW is 
already talking about and getting geared up for Corvair College #9 in November. 
Should be a good one. We hope to make an appearance at that one.

Assembling the motor tonight and hoping to move the plane home maybe this 
weekend for the beginning of the mounting of the motor. Stay tuned

Colin Rainey
KSFB
N96TA

KR> engine update

[mike]

Mark Langford wrote:

>I hooked up my Karmann Ghia's tach to it today and ascertained that both EIS
>and Tiny Tach our way out in the weeds.   The Tiny Tach reads about 5000 rpm
>at idle, about 7000 at 2000 rpm, and then it goes back down to 5000 at 3000
>rpm!  The EIS is off by some wierd integer number, but it fluctates so much
>it's hard to guess what it is.  The Ghia tach got me through the day of
>testing though (yes, I know I have to multiply by .67), and I proved that
>it's putting out good power and with a good mixture.  I also found out my
>oil cooler leaks.
>  
>
My father had the same problem with the tiny tach on a motor home with a 
high energy ignition system. The problem was too much signal. He solved 
the problem by reducing the number of turns around the wire. I believe 
he was down to one loose turn to get the proper reading.
Mike Warner

KR> engine update

[Mark Langford]

Mike Warner wrote:

> My father had the same problem with the tiny tach on a motor home with a
> high energy ignition system. The problem was too much signal. He solved
> the problem by reducing the number of turns around the wire. I believe
> he was down to one loose turn to get the proper reading.

I tried all kinds of combinations of wraps (it would still pick up a signal
4" away from the wire), and even put a resistive filter network on it
(recommended by Tiny Tach), and then went the extra mile with a
potentiometer and dialed it all over the place trying to get it to work.  I
eventually had it to the point that it would either read twice the speed it
should, or "quit" (got back to displaying hours). The Tiny Tach guy was
supposed to send me a new one last week, but I'm still waiting on it.  I did
get the EIS to read right (by setting the "tachP/R" to 6), so I have one
good tach already.  Right now I'm waiting on my Ellison carb to do some more
runs.  I expect I'll get more power out of it.

The only thing between me and a BFR is a 100 hour inspection on the 172, and
twenty minutes of night flight time...

Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL
N56ML at hiwaay.net
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford

KR> engine update

[Gennady Gershfeld]

   Mark,

   You should try a ferrite ring or EMI filter it might help with
   interference.


   >From: "Mark Langford" <n5...@hiwaay.net>
   >Reply-To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
   >To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
   >Subject: Re: KR> engine update
   >Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:54:56 -0500
   >
   >Mike Warner wrote:
   >
   > > My father had the same problem with the tiny tach on a motor home
   with a
   > > high energy ignition system. The problem was too much signal. He
   solved
   > > the problem by reducing the number of turns around the wire. I
   believe
   > > he was down to one loose turn to get the proper reading.
   >
   >I tried all kinds of combinations of wraps (it would still pick up a
   signal
   >4" away from the wire), and even put a resistive filter network on it
   >(recommended by Tiny Tach), and then went the extra mile with a
   >potentiometer and dialed it all over the place trying to get it to
   work.  I
   >eventually had it to the point that it would either read twice the
   speed it
   >should, or "quit" (got back to displaying hours). The Tiny Tach guy
   was
   >supposed to send me a new one last week, but I'm still waiting on
   it.  I did
   >get the EIS to read right (by setting the "tachP/R" to 6), so I have
   one
   >good tach already.  Right now I'm waiting on my Ellison carb to do
   some more
   >runs.  I expect I'll get more power out of it.
   >
   >The only thing between me and a BFR is a 100 hour inspection on the
   172, and
   >twenty minutes of night flight time...
   >
   >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL
   >N56ML at hiwaay.net
   >see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
   >
   >
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   >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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References

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KR> engine update

[Mark Langford]

NetHeads,

Yesterday was an interesting day.  It was the first day of running my engine
on the airframe and dialing in the carburetor.   I put the results in
webpage form at
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/first_runs/ .  Anybody that's
sucessfully run an EIS or Tiny Tach on a Corvair or other 6 cylinder engine
is welcome to shed some light on my tach problems.  I never thought it would
happen to me...

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford

KR> engine update

[Stephen Jacobs]

It was the first day of running my engine on the airframe



Nice one Mark - congrats

Steve J

KR> engine update

[Brian Kraut]

Congratulations.

I remember the first time I fired up the VW on my last KR after rebuilding
it, the wonderfull airplane noise sound, the feel of power as I increased
the throttle, the wind off the prop, the thirty foot long oil slick on my
neighbors hand manicured front lawn because I didn't tighten the oil filter.
Good memories.

Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
Behalf Of Mark Langford
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 11:34 AM
To: Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft; KRnet
Subject: KR> engine update


NetHeads,

Yesterday was an interesting day.  It was the first day of running my engine
on the airframe and dialing in the carburetor.   I put the results in
webpage form at
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/first_runs/ .  Anybody that's
sucessfully run an EIS or Tiny Tach on a Corvair or other 6 cylinder engine
is welcome to shed some light on my tach problems.  I never thought it would
happen to me...

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford






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KR> engine update

[StRaNgEdAyS]

That's one sexy looking KR there Mark!
I have a feeling that on a 6 cylinder distributor and coil powered unit the
tach should be set to 6 pulses per revolution, the three pulses setting
would be for a 6 cylinder coil pack setup where the plugs spark on the
exhaust stroke as well a-la motorcycle CDI unit.
Cheers. 
Peter Bancks.
stranged...@dodo.com.au

KR> engine update/ four place KR

[larry flesner]

I have a new attitude now, and I suspect I'll be able to fly it to the KR
Gathering in September, although with no paint, wheel pants, or interior
installed... 
>Mark Langford


Mark,

I think it's time for a big YEE HAA.

Looking good!  It won't be long and you will be having days like I had today.
Flying along above some puffy cumulus with a 30 mph tailwind making
190 ground speed heading to a flyin.  I've managed to put 55 hours on
my KR since the middle of February.  I need to take it out of service 
long enough to finish the paint, trim, wheel pants, etc., but I'm having 
too much fun flying.  

Yesterday I had two Q-200's , one on each wing, in close formation
(50 feet) and ended up making a high speed pass at 30 feet AGL 
with one tucked in tight on my right wing.  YEE HAA...

Four place KR:

I'm officially laying claim to having the first 4 place KR.  My daughter
is expecting twins in November and I took the three of them flying
last weekend.  Somebody pinch me, please...

Larry Flesner

KR> engine update

[Mark Langford]

Peter Bancks wrote:

> I have a feeling that on a 6 cylinder distributor and coil powered unit
the
> tach should be set to 6 pulses per revolution, the three pulses setting
> would be for a 6 cylinder coil pack setup where the plugs spark on the
> exhaust stroke as well a-la motorcycle CDI unit.

Typical four stroke engines (such as cars and Corvairs) spin twice for every
time they fire (one TDC is for compression stroke, the next one is for
exhaust stroke), so a Corvair six times per two revolutions, (averages
firing three times per revolution), so I have it set correctly for my engine
type.

I hooked up my Karmann Ghia's tach to it today and ascertained that both EIS
and Tiny Tach our way out in the weeds.   The Tiny Tach reads about 5000 rpm
at idle, about 7000 at 2000 rpm, and then it goes back down to 5000 at 3000
rpm!  The EIS is off by some wierd integer number, but it fluctates so much
it's hard to guess what it is.  The Ghia tach got me through the day of
testing though (yes, I know I have to multiply by .67), and I proved that
it's putting out good power and with a good mixture.  I also found out my
oil cooler leaks.

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford

KR> engine update

[Mark Langford]

Peter Bancks wrote:

> I have a feeling that on a 6 cylinder distributor and coil powered unit
the
> tach should be set to 6 pulses per revolution, the three pulses setting
> would be for a 6 cylinder coil pack setup where the plugs spark on the
> exhaust stroke as well a-la motorcycle CDI unit.

Typical four stroke engines (such as cars and Corvairs) fire once per two
revolutions of the crankshaft (one TDC is for compression stroke, the next
one is for
exhaust stroke), so a Corvair fires six times per two revolutions, (averages
firing three times per revolution), so I have it set correctly for my engine
type.

I hooked up my Karmann Ghia's tach to it today and ascertained that both EIS
and Tiny Tach are way out in the weeds.   The Tiny Tach reads about 5000 rpm
at idle, about 7000 at 2000 rpm, and then it goes back down to 5000 at 3000
rpm!  The EIS is off by some wierd integer number, but it fluctates so much
it's hard to guess what it is.  The Ghia tach got me through the day of
testing though (yes, I know I have to multiply by .67), and I proved that
it's putting out good power and with a good mixture.  I also found out my
oil cooler leaks.

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford

KR> engine update

[StRaNgEdAyS]

Mark wrote:
"Typical four stroke engines (such as cars and Corvairs) spin twice for
every
time they fire (one TDC is for compression stroke, the next one is for
exhaust stroke), so a Corvair six times per two revolutions, (averages
firing three times per revolution), so I have it set correctly for my engine
type."

That is true...
I feel a little silly now... :o
I blame it on having to be up at 5am...
So what do you think is up with the tiny tach and the EIS?

KR> engine update

[Doug Rupert]

Probably set up for magnetos or hooked to a common coil wire that is hot all
the time. Also could have had both ignition (main & secondary) switched on
at the same time.
Doug Rupert

KR> engine update/ four place KR

[Dan Heath]

Larry,

How did it handle as a 4 place and what was the climb rate compared to a
single place? 

See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics

"There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for
building has long since expired."

Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC

See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering

See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org

KR> engine update/ four place KR

[Ray Goree]

Very clever way for Larry to claim increased capacity. Very good response.
Ray goree

Dan Heath  wrote:
Larry,

How did it handle as a 4 place and what was the climb rate compared to a
single place? 

See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics

"There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for
building has long since expired."

Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC

See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering

See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org

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KR> engine update

[Mark Langford]

NetHeads,

I did a little engine update at
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/index.html#update .   I'll publish more
details later, but I didn't want y'all to think I'd become a couch potato or
anything.  Actual test runs may commence as early as the weekend, although
I've been saying that for about four months now.

Note: this engine, plenum, oil thermostat,  lengthened prop hub, oil filler,
dipstick tube, lengthened safety shaft, intake hose material, oil line, hose
clamps, fuel pump hole plug, exhaust system, intake system, carburetor, and
inlet system have not been engineered, tested, proven, or even suspected of
actually working in an aircraft environment.  Anybody considering doing
anything remotely as stupid as what this picture depicts should surely be
committed.  Any suitabilty for flight purposes are solely the result of an
overactive imagination, rather than the power of suggestion by the author,
yada, yada, yada...

Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL
N56ML "at"  hiwaay.net
see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford

KR> engine update

[Mark Jones]

What is the little red button on top of the right plenum? A compression
release button so you can start it? Now that should raise an eyebrow or
two

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI  USA
E-mail me at flyk...@wi.rr.com
Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html


- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Langford" <n5...@hiwaay.net>
To: "Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft" <corvaircr...@mylist.net>
Cc: "KRNet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:25 PM
Subject: KR> engine update


> NetHeads,
>
> I did a little engine update at
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/index.html#update . >
___
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> engine update

[larry severson]

>Note: this engine, plenum,

Is there any specific height above the cylinders that the plenum needs to 
have for proper cooling aIr flow? 1", 4"???


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
lar...@socal.rr.com 

KR> engine update

[Mark Langford]

Larry Severson wrote:

> Is there any specific height above the cylinders that the plenum needs to
> have for proper cooling aIr flow? 1", 4"???

Maybe, but I don't know what it is.  I'd think that 3" or 4" would be best.
If you used 1", the air would be pretty hot by the time it got back to the
rearmost cylinder.  I used the Jabiru engine's plenum as a rough guide, and
it's probably 3" or 4" overall.  Close enough for KR work.

Building an oil cooler shroud today.  Back to sanding urethane foam and
glassing!

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford