Fw: KR> annunciators box
Meant to send this reply to ALL - Forwarded Message - From: Craig Williams To: Willie van der Walt Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:15 AM Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box The knob is only for testing the unit after engine start and before takeoff. The only switch you would ever deal with is the dimmer if you were still in the air during twilight. The -1 version that connects to the FDS AN-21 control box does not have the rotary switch, just a toggle that has bright,dim and test positions. I should mention now that once I have this thing done I will give all the KR folks a discount of 25%. Anyone who want's to test one for me gets 50% discount and a new production unit after testing. If I can make it to the KR gathering I will bring both so folks can see them. This is going to work nicely in my cockpit as I am after a military style panel for my little Seafury. Craig From: Willie van der Walt To: Craig Williams ; KRnet Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 4:09 AM Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box Very nice looking but in the KR2 your right hand is on the stick and it is not nice to turn knobs to get a reading. -Original Message- From: Craig Williams Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 11:06 PM To: Craig Williams ; KRnet Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box Video of my 3 1/8" annunciator panel. This keeps me busy while the plane is stored. I hope to have a permanent home for me and the plane by this fall so I can unpack and get back to it. In the mean time I exercise my brain with things like this... http://youtu.be/MX_I1wBGMFs Enjoy CRAIG www.kr2seafury.com www.flightwidgets.com
KR> annunciators box
Very nice looking but in the KR2 your right hand is on the stick and it is not nice to turn knobs to get a reading. -Original Message- From: Craig Williams Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 11:06 PM To: Craig Williams ; KRnet Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box Video of my 3 1/8" annunciator panel. This keeps me busy while the plane is stored. I hope to have a permanent home for me and the plane by this fall so I can unpack and get back to it. In the mean time I exercise my brain with things like this... http://youtu.be/MX_I1wBGMFs Enjoy CRAIG www.kr2seafury.com www.flightwidgets.com From: Craig Williams To: Mark Cc: K Rnet Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2012 9:51 PM Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box Happy Easter everyone Well I am putting my money where my mouth is. I hope Mark L will allow me a little latitude here as I am going to make this a deal for the KR folks. I am a retired AF avionics guy and I just could not let the annunciator idea go. What I have ended up doing (while my plane and house are in transit to MD) is developing a unit for my plane and will probably make it commercially available. Here is the deal for you KR folks. I need a few BETA testers. I am putting together a info letter explaining everything and if you email me off list I will email it to you this week to consider. In the end you will end up with quite a deal so if you think your interested you can email me off net. I hope to get a few people with 90% projects for install pics and eval as well as a few flying planes. Thanks, Craig www.kr2seafury.com IN TRANSIT From: Mark To: 'Craig Williams' Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:50 PM Subject: RE: KR> annunciators box Please keep everyone posted. I for one would be interested in how it works for you. I have a project in the boat stage with completed spars and tail feathers, so it will be a while before I am ready to start thinking of wiring and control electronics. Mark W N952MW(res) From:Craig Williams [mailto:kr2seaf...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 12:03 PM To: Mark ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://mylist.net/private/krnet/ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> annunciators box
Video of my 3 1/8" annunciator panel. This keeps me busy while the plane is stored. I hope to have a permanent home for me and the plane by this fall so I can unpack and get back to it. In the mean time I exercise my brain with things like this... http://youtu.be/MX_I1wBGMFs Enjoy CRAIG www.kr2seafury.com www.flightwidgets.com From: Craig Williams To: Mark Cc: K Rnet Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2012 9:51 PM Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box Happy Easter everyone Well I am putting my money where my mouth is. I hope Mark L will allow me a little latitude here as I am going to make this a deal for the KR folks. I am a retired AF avionics guy and I just could not let the annunciator idea go. What I have ended up doing (while my plane and house are in transit to MD) is developing a unit for my plane and will probably make it commercially available. Here is the deal for you KR folks. I need a few BETA testers. I am putting together a info letter explaining everything and if you email me off list I will email it to you this week to consider. In the end you will end up with quite a deal so if you think your interested you can email me off net. I hope to get a few people with 90% projects for install pics and eval as well as a few flying planes. Thanks, Craig www.kr2seafury.com IN TRANSIT From: Mark To: 'Craig Williams' Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:50 PM Subject: RE: KR> annunciators box Please keep everyone posted. I for one would be interested in how it works for you. I have a project in the boat stage with completed spars and tail feathers, so it will be a while before I am ready to start thinking of wiring and control electronics. Mark W N952MW(res) From:Craig Williams [mailto:kr2seaf...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 12:03 PM To: Mark
KR> annunciators box
Craig I would be interested in deeing your information. Thanks Regards Dene Collett Avlec Projects cc Port Elizabeth South Africa https://businessbuilders.infusionsoft.com/go/letter/Dene/ > >-Original Message- > >From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf Of > >Craig Williams > >Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 4:51 AM > >To: Mark > >Cc: K Rnet > >Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box > > > >Happy Easter everyone > > > >Well I am putting my money where my mouth is
KR> annunciators box
Happy Easter everyone Well I am putting my money where my mouth is. I hope Mark L will allow me a little latitude here as I am going to make this a deal for the KR folks. I am a retired AF avionics guy and I just could not let the annunciator idea go. What I have ended up doing (while my plane and house are in transit to MD) is developing a unit for my plane and will probably make it commercially available. Here is the deal for you KR folks. I need a few BETA testers. I am putting together a info letter explaining everything and if you email me off list I will email it to you this week to consider. In the end you will end up with quite a deal so if you think your interested you can email me off net. I hope to get a few people with 90% projects for install pics and eval as well as a few flying planes. Thanks, Craig www.kr2seafury.com IN TRANSIT From: Mark To: 'Craig Williams' Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:50 PM Subject: RE: KR> annunciators box Please keep everyone posted. I for one would be interested in how it works for you. I have a project in the boat stage with completed spars and tail feathers, so it will be a while before I am ready to start thinking of wiring and control electronics. Mark W N952MW(res) From:Craig Williams [mailto:kr2seaf...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 12:03 PM To: Mark Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box " It's better to respond to a false failure (burned out bulb/shorted sensor) than not be aware of a failure." And yes I would agree. So what I am hearing is that no one so far uses an "annunciation system". Good discussion. Looks like I may be the first. Craig www.kr2seafury.com From:Mark To: 'KRnet' ; 'Craig Williams' Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 10:22 AM Subject: RE: KR> annunciators box Using the Quality theory of passively reject/actively accept, your annunciators/lights should be set to light Green and Good. That way if you have a failure of the system that light goes dark and it should get your attention. It's better to respond to a false failure (burned out bulb/shorted sensor) than not be aware of a failure. Mark W N952MW -Original Message- Matt Elder wrote: What ever happened to looking at the switch? Don't make this complicated. Also, it might not be a good idea to have a warning indicator for fuel transfer. 1) you will train yourself to listen for it, then it will fail on day and the fuel might not be the first thing you check because of desensitization. 2) after you forget the transfer it once (with no warning system), you wont again for a very long time.
KR> annunciators box
That's all I use them for, on off for my double throw relay to control the pump to get fuel to the header tank. I have a fuel flow system from http://www.fdatasystems.com/Products/FC-10/FC-10.html That way I know EXACTLY how much fuel I used, just reset when I top off the tanks. Good for EFI systems (just use two and the computer will compute the difference. Joe On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 8:43 AM, wrote: > That switch is either on or off, not to detect levels. They are good > switches though. Use them at work in a horrible corrosive environment > and have > only seen one bad one in 10+ years of use. > > Kevin. > > > > > In a message dated 2/13/2012 7:04:40 A.M. Central Standard Time, > jose.fuen...@gmail.com writes: > > The fuel level swtich I use is from http://fluidswitch.com/pages/fs11.htm > > Seems to do well > > Joe > > On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:49 PM, Jeff Scott > wrote: > > > The plate type of capacitance transducers are known for reading pretty > > inaccurately due to the sloshing in the tanks. The feedback I have heard > is > > that they work just fine on the ground, but as soon as the plane is > moving > > and bouncing around the fuel gauges become relatively useless. If > someone > > else has been flying with them and has a different experience, I'd sure > > like to hear it. > > > > I did install capacitance gauges in my KR. I used the transducers from > > Westach, which are a 1/4" aluminum tube with a wire suspended in the > center > > that is used to measure the capacitance. I found the tube type > transducers > > to be accurate and work quite well in rough air. I have had a history of > > the Westach transducers losing the ground where the ground wire is > riveted > > onto the 1/4" tube with a cheap pop rivet, but addressed that issue by > > wrapping and zipping them down tight with some .020 safety wire. I've > been > > flying with these gauges in my KR for 15 years now. It's worth noting > that > > the more modern Westach transducers come with the ground wire already > > wrapped around the tube at the rivet. > > > > Craig, my fuel system is set up similar to yours with a 9 gallon header > > and two 6 gallon aux tanks that get transferred to the header. Maybe > it's > > just me, but in 900 hours I have never failed to look at the fuel gauge > and > > transfer fuel from the wings to the header. In fact, it is rare for me > to > > ever allow the header to go below 1/2 tank until after the wing tanks > are > > dry. However, I have forgotten to shut off the tranfer pumps a few > times, > > so was pumping excess fuel to the header which was sending it overboard. > > Don't try to over think it as all the warnings can become a distraction. > > You may find yourself responding to warnings that may not necessarily be > as > > critical as just flying the plane first. The only annunciator I have in > my > > plane is the traffic proximity warning on my PCAS. That's one that gets > my > > attention, but after more than one near miss while in cruise flight, I > want > > it to get my attention. > > > > Jeff Scott > > Los Alamos, NM > > > > - Original Message - > > From: Craig Williams > > Sent: 02/11/12 04:36 PM > > To: KRnet > > Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box > > > > Mark You may want to look at Jim Weirs (June 2000 kitplanes) design for > a > > capacitive fuel gauge. It's what I am going to use. No moving parts and > no > > need to ever go back in the tank. It also has an alarm for low fuel. > That > > will be useful for me because I do not plan on having and external fill > > capability on the mains, all fuel goes through the aux and transfers to > the > > mains via a pump. http://www.rst-engr.com/kitplanes/ Although I will > have > > the low fuel alarm I decided to build the timer circuit to alert me > every > > hour to transfer fuel. The 0-200 will burn my mains down to half full > each > > hour. Then I flip on the pump switch and watch the gauge climb back to > full > > and shut her off. (<2 min) If fuel won't transfer then I have one hour > to > > fix it or land. Craig www.kr2seafury > From: > > Mark Langford To: KRnet Sent: > Saturday, > > February 11, 2012 2:44 PM Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box The reason I > > have a fuel transfer LED (and it's just green and doesn't flash) is > purely > > for information that the pump really is ge
KR> annunciators box
That switch is either on or off, not to detect levels. They are good switches though. Use them at work in a horrible corrosive environment and have only seen one bad one in 10+ years of use. Kevin. In a message dated 2/13/2012 7:04:40 A.M. Central Standard Time, jose.fuen...@gmail.com writes: The fuel level swtich I use is from http://fluidswitch.com/pages/fs11.htm Seems to do well Joe On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:49 PM, Jeff Scott wrote: > The plate type of capacitance transducers are known for reading pretty > inaccurately due to the sloshing in the tanks. The feedback I have heard is > that they work just fine on the ground, but as soon as the plane is moving > and bouncing around the fuel gauges become relatively useless. If someone > else has been flying with them and has a different experience, I'd sure > like to hear it. > > I did install capacitance gauges in my KR. I used the transducers from > Westach, which are a 1/4" aluminum tube with a wire suspended in the center > that is used to measure the capacitance. I found the tube type transducers > to be accurate and work quite well in rough air. I have had a history of > the Westach transducers losing the ground where the ground wire is riveted > onto the 1/4" tube with a cheap pop rivet, but addressed that issue by > wrapping and zipping them down tight with some .020 safety wire. I've been > flying with these gauges in my KR for 15 years now. It's worth noting that > the more modern Westach transducers come with the ground wire already > wrapped around the tube at the rivet. > > Craig, my fuel system is set up similar to yours with a 9 gallon header > and two 6 gallon aux tanks that get transferred to the header. Maybe it's > just me, but in 900 hours I have never failed to look at the fuel gauge and > transfer fuel from the wings to the header. In fact, it is rare for me to > ever allow the header to go below 1/2 tank until after the wing tanks are > dry. However, I have forgotten to shut off the tranfer pumps a few times, > so was pumping excess fuel to the header which was sending it overboard. > Don't try to over think it as all the warnings can become a distraction. > You may find yourself responding to warnings that may not necessarily be as > critical as just flying the plane first. The only annunciator I have in my > plane is the traffic proximity warning on my PCAS. That's one that gets my > attention, but after more than one near miss while in cruise flight, I want > it to get my attention. > > Jeff Scott > Los Alamos, NM > > - Original Message - > From: Craig Williams > Sent: 02/11/12 04:36 PM > To: KRnet > Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box > > Mark You may want to look at Jim Weirs (June 2000 kitplanes) design for a > capacitive fuel gauge. It's what I am going to use. No moving parts and no > need to ever go back in the tank. It also has an alarm for low fuel. That > will be useful for me because I do not plan on having and external fill > capability on the mains, all fuel goes through the aux and transfers to the > mains via a pump. http://www.rst-engr.com/kitplanes/ Although I will have > the low fuel alarm I decided to build the timer circuit to alert me every > hour to transfer fuel. The 0-200 will burn my mains down to half full each > hour. Then I flip on the pump switch and watch the gauge climb back to full > and shut her off. (<2 min) If fuel won't transfer then I have one hour to > fix it or land. Craig www.kr2seafury From: > Mark Langford To: KRnet Sent: Saturday, > February 11, 2012 2:44 PM Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box The reason I > have a fuel transfer LED (and it's just green and doesn't flash) is purely > for information that the pump really is getting power, and that it shuts > off automatically when it's supposed to, after about three minutes. I agree > that the automatic level switch makes a lot of sense, but I've got two dead > fuel level sensors in two different tanks in my plane, both of which lasted > a mater of weeks before they croaked, so I hope folks choose better than I > did in that regard (Compac Engineering). I'd be tempted to find an > automotive (either factory or aftermarket) level sensor that has the extra > connection for a "low fuel" light, and use that to trigger a warning light, > just like in your car. But I've found in my plane that I never, not once, > ran the main tank out of fuel, for the reasons Matt mentionedthe fuel > gauge in the header tank is something I glance at quite often, and when it > drops to the point that it could h
KR> annunciators box
The fuel level swtich I use is from http://fluidswitch.com/pages/fs11.htm Seems to do well Joe On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:49 PM, Jeff Scott wrote: > The plate type of capacitance transducers are known for reading pretty > inaccurately due to the sloshing in the tanks. The feedback I have heard is > that they work just fine on the ground, but as soon as the plane is moving > and bouncing around the fuel gauges become relatively useless. If someone > else has been flying with them and has a different experience, I'd sure > like to hear it. > > I did install capacitance gauges in my KR. I used the transducers from > Westach, which are a 1/4" aluminum tube with a wire suspended in the center > that is used to measure the capacitance. I found the tube type transducers > to be accurate and work quite well in rough air. I have had a history of > the Westach transducers losing the ground where the ground wire is riveted > onto the 1/4" tube with a cheap pop rivet, but addressed that issue by > wrapping and zipping them down tight with some .020 safety wire. I've been > flying with these gauges in my KR for 15 years now. It's worth noting that > the more modern Westach transducers come with the ground wire already > wrapped around the tube at the rivet. > > Craig, my fuel system is set up similar to yours with a 9 gallon header > and two 6 gallon aux tanks that get transferred to the header. Maybe it's > just me, but in 900 hours I have never failed to look at the fuel gauge and > transfer fuel from the wings to the header. In fact, it is rare for me to > ever allow the header to go below 1/2 tank until after the wing tanks are > dry. However, I have forgotten to shut off the tranfer pumps a few times, > so was pumping excess fuel to the header which was sending it overboard. > Don't try to over think it as all the warnings can become a distraction. > You may find yourself responding to warnings that may not necessarily be as > critical as just flying the plane first. The only annunciator I have in my > plane is the traffic proximity warning on my PCAS. That's one that gets my > attention, but after more than one near miss while in cruise flight, I want > it to get my attention. > > Jeff Scott > Los Alamos, NM > > - Original Message - > From: Craig Williams > Sent: 02/11/12 04:36 PM > To: KRnet > Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box > > Mark You may want to look at Jim Weirs (June 2000 kitplanes) design for a > capacitive fuel gauge. It's what I am going to use. No moving parts and no > need to ever go back in the tank. It also has an alarm for low fuel. That > will be useful for me because I do not plan on having and external fill > capability on the mains, all fuel goes through the aux and transfers to the > mains via a pump. http://www.rst-engr.com/kitplanes/ Although I will have > the low fuel alarm I decided to build the timer circuit to alert me every > hour to transfer fuel. The 0-200 will burn my mains down to half full each > hour. Then I flip on the pump switch and watch the gauge climb back to full > and shut her off. (<2 min) If fuel won't transfer then I have one hour to > fix it or land. Craig www.kr2seafury From: > Mark Langford To: KRnet Sent: Saturday, > February 11, 2012 2:44 PM Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box The reason I > have a fuel transfer LED (and it's just green and doesn't flash) is purely > for information that the pump really is getting power, and that it shuts > off automatically when it's supposed to, after about three minutes. I agree > that the automatic level switch makes a lot of sense, but I've got two dead > fuel level sensors in two different tanks in my plane, both of which lasted > a mater of weeks before they croaked, so I hope folks choose better than I > did in that regard (Compac Engineering). I'd be tempted to find an > automotive (either factory or aftermarket) level sensor that has the extra > connection for a "low fuel" light, and use that to trigger a warning light, > just like in your car. But I've found in my plane that I never, not once, > ran the main tank out of fuel, for the reasons Matt mentionedthe fuel > gauge in the header tank is something I glance at quite often, and when it > drops to the point that it could hold another couple of gallons, I shoot it > over there. The "fuel transfer" light is just to let me know if the pump is > receiving power or not (and hopefully working). That's not to say that I > didn't know what the gauge looked like when it was dead empty. Part of my > annual inspection is to prop the tail up to flying angle and run the fuel > out, to make sure
KR> annunciators box
The plate type of capacitance transducers are known for reading pretty inaccurately due to the sloshing in the tanks. The feedback I have heard is that they work just fine on the ground, but as soon as the plane is moving and bouncing around the fuel gauges become relatively useless. If someone else has been flying with them and has a different experience, I'd sure like to hear it. I did install capacitance gauges in my KR. I used the transducers from Westach, which are a 1/4" aluminum tube with a wire suspended in the center that is used to measure the capacitance. I found the tube type transducers to be accurate and work quite well in rough air. I have had a history of the Westach transducers losing the ground where the ground wire is riveted onto the 1/4" tube with a cheap pop rivet, but addressed that issue by wrapping and zipping them down tight with some .020 safety wire. I've been flying with these gauges in my KR for 15 years now. It's worth noting that the more modern Westach transducers come with the ground wire already wrapped around the tube at the rivet. Craig, my fuel system is set up similar to yours with a 9 gallon header and two 6 gallon aux tanks that get transferred to the header. Maybe it's just me, but in 900 hours I have never failed to look at the fuel gauge and transfer fuel from the wings to the header. In fact, it is rare for me to ever allow the header to go below 1/2 tank until after the wing tanks are dry. However, I have forgotten to shut off the tranfer pumps a few times, so was pumping excess fuel to the header which was sending it overboard. Don't try to over think it as all the warnings can become a distraction. You may find yourself responding to warnings that may not necessarily be as critical as just flying the plane first. The only annunciator I have in my plane is the traffic proximity warning on my PCAS. That's one that gets my attention, but after more than one near miss while in cruise flight, I want it to get my attention. Jeff Scott Los Alamos, NM - Original Message - From: Craig Williams Sent: 02/11/12 04:36 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box Mark You may want to look at Jim Weirs (June 2000 kitplanes) design for a capacitive fuel gauge. It's what I am going to use. No moving parts and no need to ever go back in the tank. It also has an alarm for low fuel. That will be useful for me because I do not plan on having and external fill capability on the mains, all fuel goes through the aux and transfers to the mains via a pump. http://www.rst-engr.com/kitplanes/ Although I will have the low fuel alarm I decided to build the timer circuit to alert me every hour to transfer fuel. The 0-200 will burn my mains down to half full each hour. Then I flip on the pump switch and watch the gauge climb back to full and shut her off. (<2 min) If fuel won't transfer then I have one hour to fix it or land. Craig www.kr2seafury From: Mark Langford To: KRnet Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 2:44 PM Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box The reason I have a fuel transfer LED (and it's just green and doesn't flash) is purely for information that the pump really is getting power, and that it shuts off automatically when it's supposed to, after about three minutes. I agree that the automatic level switch makes a lot of sense, but I've got two dead fuel level sensors in two different tanks in my plane, both of which lasted a mater of weeks before they croaked, so I hope folks choose better than I did in that regard (Compac Engineering). I'd be tempted to find an automotive (either factory or aftermarket) level sensor that has the extra connection for a "low fuel" light, and use that to trigger a warning light, just like in your car. But I've found in my plane that I never, not once, ran the main tank out of fuel, for the reasons Matt mentionedthe fuel gauge in the header tank is something I glance at quite often, and when it drops to the point that it could hold another couple of gallons, I shoot it over there. The "fuel transfer" light is just to let me know if the pump is receiving power or not (and hopefully working). That's not to say that I didn't know what the gauge looked like when it was dead empty. Part of my annual inspection is to prop the tail up to flying angle and run the fuel out, to make sure the gauge is still accurate, and that I know how it looks just before it gets there. As much as I don't like fuel in the cabin, I have to admit that the Swift has a fuel system I could like in a KR. It has an aluminum "header" box that holds about a quart of fuel, right under the seats. It has a standpipe sticking out the top, into which a cork float twists a magnet that acts on a gauge that sticks out between the seats (like a
KR> annunciators box
Mark You may want to look at Jim Weirs (June 2000 kitplanes) design for a capacitive fuel gauge. It's what I am going to use. No moving parts and no need to ever go back in the tank. It also has an alarm for low fuel. That will be useful for me because I do not plan on having and external fill capability on the mains, all fuel goes through the aux and transfers to the mains via a pump. http://www.rst-engr.com/kitplanes/ Although I will have the low fuel alarm I decided to build the timer circuit to alert me every hour to transfer fuel. The 0-200 will burn my mains down to half full each hour. Then I flip on the pump switch and watch the gauge climb back to full and shut her off. (<2 min) If fuel won't transfer then I have one hour to fix it or land. Craig www.kr2seafury From: Mark Langford To: KRnet Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 2:44 PM Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box The reason I have a fuel transfer LED (and it's just green and doesn't flash) is purely for information that the pump really is getting power, and that it shuts off automatically when it's supposed to, after about three minutes. I agree that the automatic level switch makes a lot of sense, but I've got two dead fuel level sensors in two different tanks in my plane, both of which lasted a mater of weeks before they croaked, so I hope folks choose better than I did in that regard (Compac Engineering). I'd be tempted to find an automotive (either factory or aftermarket) level sensor that has the extra connection for a "low fuel" light, and use that to trigger a warning light, just like in your car. But I've found in my plane that I never, not once, ran the main tank out of fuel, for the reasons Matt mentionedthe fuel gauge in the header tank is something I glance at quite often, and when it drops to the point that it could hold another couple of gallons, I shoot it over there. The "fuel transfer" light is just to let me know if the pump is receiving power or not (and hopefully working). That's not to say that I didn't know what the gauge looked like when it was dead empty. Part of my annual inspection is to prop the tail up to flying angle and run the fuel out, to make sure the gauge is still accurate, and that I know how it looks just before it gets there. As much as I don't like fuel in the cabin, I have to admit that the Swift has a fuel system I could like in a KR. It has an aluminum "header" box that holds about a quart of fuel, right under the seats. It has a standpipe sticking out the top, into which a cork float twists a magnet that acts on a gauge that sticks out between the seats (like a boat fuel tank, I'm told). This aluminum box is plumbed to the two wing tanks, always receiving fuel from both tanks by gravity, and the fuel is then pumped from the aluminum box to the carb by a mechanical and/or electric pump. Gravity means no such thing as fuel left in either tank when it finally runs dry. This way, only one water/trash drain is needed. It's remoted to a pull knob at the firewall via cable. The fuel outlet runs through a large fine screen before it can be sucked out of the header and to the carb. Another advantage to this system is that replacing the gauge is easily done in minutes with four screws, from inside the cabin, and without even draining the fuel! Of course my Swift's gauge has been operating flawlessly for 65 years One of the many nice things about the EIS is the programmable fuel remaining. I have mine set to alarm at 2.3 gallons (more than a half hour at cruise), but then that is based on the assumption that I've been smart enough to empty the aux wing tanks into the header tank via fuel transfer. With the Swift system, that issue doesn't exist, and I'd only need two electric pumps (main and backup), rather than four (add a pump for each aux tank)... Mark Langford ML at N56ML.com website at http://www.N56ML.com ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://mylist.net/private/krnet/ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> annunciators box
The reason I have a fuel transfer LED (and it's just green and doesn't flash) is purely for information that the pump really is getting power, and that it shuts off automatically when it's supposed to, after about three minutes. I agree that the automatic level switch makes a lot of sense, but I've got two dead fuel level sensors in two different tanks in my plane, both of which lasted a mater of weeks before they croaked, so I hope folks choose better than I did in that regard (Compac Engineering). I'd be tempted to find an automotive (either factory or aftermarket) level sensor that has the extra connection for a "low fuel" light, and use that to trigger a warning light, just like in your car. But I've found in my plane that I never, not once, ran the main tank out of fuel, for the reasons Matt mentionedthe fuel gauge in the header tank is something I glance at quite often, and when it drops to the point that it could hold another couple of gallons, I shoot it over there. The "fuel transfer" light is just to let me know if the pump is receiving power or not (and hopefully working). That's not to say that I didn't know what the gauge looked like when it was dead empty. Part of my annual inspection is to prop the tail up to flying angle and run the fuel out, to make sure the gauge is still accurate, and that I know how it looks just before it gets there. As much as I don't like fuel in the cabin, I have to admit that the Swift has a fuel system I could like in a KR. It has an aluminum "header" box that holds about a quart of fuel, right under the seats. It has a standpipe sticking out the top, into which a cork float twists a magnet that acts on a gauge that sticks out between the seats (like a boat fuel tank, I'm told). This aluminum box is plumbed to the two wing tanks, always receiving fuel from both tanks by gravity, and the fuel is then pumped from the aluminum box to the carb by a mechanical and/or electric pump. Gravity means no such thing as fuel left in either tank when it finally runs dry. This way, only one water/trash drain is needed. It's remoted to a pull knob at the firewall via cable. The fuel outlet runs through a large fine screen before it can be sucked out of the header and to the carb. Another advantage to this system is that replacing the gauge is easily done in minutes with four screws, from inside the cabin, and without even draining the fuel! Of course my Swift's gauge has been operating flawlessly for 65 years One of the many nice things about the EIS is the programmable fuel remaining. I have mine set to alarm at 2.3 gallons (more than a half hour at cruise), but then that is based on the assumption that I've been smart enough to empty the aux wing tanks into the header tank via fuel transfer. With the Swift system, that issue doesn't exist, and I'd only need two electric pumps (main and backup), rather than four (add a pump for each aux tank)... Mark Langford ML at N56ML.com website at http://www.N56ML.com
KR> annunciators box
Using the Quality theory of passively reject/actively accept, your annunciators/lights should be set to light Green and Good. That way if you have a failure of the system that light goes dark and it should get your attention. It's better to respond to a false failure (burned out bulb/shorted sensor) than not be aware of a failure. Mark W N952MW -Original Message- Matt Elder wrote: What ever happened to looking at the switch? Don't make this complicated. Also, it might not be a good idea to have a warning indicator for fuel transfer. 1) you will train yourself to listen for it, then it will fail on day and the fuel might not be the first thing you check because of desensitization. 2) after you forget the transfer it once (with no warning system), you wont again for a very long time.
KR> annunciators box
I agree, good LED lights are a much better way to go, also a fuel float system with a double throw relay solves the problem if needing to transfer fuel at all. when the fuel gets below a given measure the pump auto starts. Joe On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Matt Elder wrote: > What ever happened to looking at the switch? Don't make this complicated. > > Also, it might not be a good idea to have a warning indicator for fuel > transfer. 1) you will train yourself to listen for it, then it will fail on > day and the fuel might not be the first thing you check because of > desensitization. 2) after you forget the transfer it once (with no warning > system), you wont again for a very long time. > > Its always a good thing to develop good habits when flying an airplane and > relying on mechanisms makes you lazy and complacent. > > I too have 4 lights. Oil pressure, alt, flaps and canopy lock. They still > don't substitute for a preflight or in flight check, but will grab your > attention if something happens between your scans, > > Matt > > > Craig Williams wrote: > > >Mark > > > >Ok, here is my reasoning. I have all steam gauges and will be flying > >behind a Continental. I want an annunciation system for ALL my > >indications such as strobes on, landing light on, nav lights on, > > > >fuel pressure alarm, oil pressure alarm, oil temp alarm and a fuel > >transfer alarm activated each hour to remind me that it's time to pump > >fuel from my 5 gal aux tanks to the 7 gal mains. Because the fuel > >transfer is so important I also want a master caution light and audio > >alarm in my headset. It looks to me that the AN-21 fits the bill > >perfectly. > > > >Craig > > > -- > Matt Elder > Orangeburg, SC > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://mylist.net/private/krnet/ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Jose Fuentes Founding Father (one of and former Vice Prez) of Capital City.NET User's Group Former Microsoft MVP http://blogs.aspadvice.com/jfuentes
KR> annunciators box
What ever happened to looking at the switch? Don't make this complicated. Also, it might not be a good idea to have a warning indicator for fuel transfer. 1) you will train yourself to listen for it, then it will fail on day and the fuel might not be the first thing you check because of desensitization. 2) after you forget the transfer it once (with no warning system), you wont again for a very long time. Its always a good thing to develop good habits when flying an airplane and relying on mechanisms makes you lazy and complacent. I too have 4 lights. Oil pressure, alt, flaps and canopy lock. They still don't substitute for a preflight or in flight check, but will grab your attention if something happens between your scans, Matt Craig Williams wrote: >Mark > >Ok, here is my reasoning. I have all steam gauges and will be flying >behind a Continental. I want an annunciation system for ALL my >indications such as strobes on, landing light on, nav lights on, > >fuel pressure alarm, oil pressure alarm, oil temp alarm and a fuel >transfer alarm activated each hour to remind me that it's time to pump >fuel from my 5 gal aux tanks to the 7 gal mains. Because the fuel >transfer is so important I also want a master caution light and audio >alarm in my headset. It looks to me that the AN-21 fits the bill >perfectly. > >Craig -- Matt Elder Orangeburg, SC
KR> annunciators box
Mark Ok, here is my reasoning. I have all steam gauges and will be flying behind a Continental. I want an annunciation system for ALL my indications such as strobes on, landing light on, nav lights on, fuel pressure alarm, oil pressure alarm, oil temp alarm and a fuel transfer alarm activated each hour to remind me that it's time to pump fuel from my 5 gal aux tanks to the 7 gal mains. Because the fuel transfer is so important I also want a master caution light and audio alarm in my headset. It looks to me that the AN-21 fits the bill perfectly. Craig From: Mark Langford To: KRnet Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 9:27 AM Subject: Re: KR> annunciators box Craig Williams wrote: >>I came across an annunciator control box made by Flight Data Systems >>http://www.fdatasystems.com/Products/AN-21/AN-21.html ) and wanted to know >>if anyone had used this unit. I imagine the EIS systems have something >>similar but I am not installing and EIS so I thought this may be an nice >>alternative.<< I'm having a hard time understanding why you need this. I have four warning lights in my plane...one is for oil pressure, one for "alternator isn't charging", one for "flaps are down", and one for "fuel is transferring". They are simple LEDs located in the area of interest, and the really important ones are flashing LEDs that might cost $2 each. This box appears to offer a steady light, flashing light, or tone in your headsets (I presume), but all inputs depend on something being grounded, and that's another potential can of worms. If it's tone you're after, I'll bet a simple and effective 12V tone generator for the headset circuit can be found on the web for $10 or so, if not built from scratch in an hour or two, but with a bright enough flashing LED, you wouldn't even need one (although I will confess the EIS's is nice to have). It might be time to ask yourself about the mission of the airplane, how complex it needs to be, and how much you want it to weigh. An EIS is worth it's weight in gold in an airplane, with all the appropriate sensors, programmable trip points, data stream output, and a whole lot of other benefits, but I personally wouldn't have much use for this annunciator box Mark Langford ML at N56ML.com website at http://www.N56ML.com ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://mylist.net/private/krnet/ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> annunciators box
Craig Williams wrote: >>I came across an annunciator control box made by Flight Data Systems ( >>http://www.fdatasystems.com/Products/AN-21/AN-21.html ) and wanted to know >>if anyone had used this unit. I imagine the EIS systems have something >>similar but I am not installing and EIS so I thought this may be an nice >>alternative.<< I'm having a hard time understanding why you need this. I have four warning lights in my plane...one is for oil pressure, one for "alternator isn't charging", one for "flaps are down", and one for "fuel is transferring". They are simple LEDs located in the area of interest, and the really important ones are flashing LEDs that might cost $2 each. This box appears to offer a steady light, flashing light, or tone in your headsets (I presume), but all inputs depend on something being grounded, and that's another potential can of worms. If it's tone you're after, I'll bet a simple and effective 12V tone generator for the headset circuit can be found on the web for $10 or so, if not built from scratch in an hour or two, but with a bright enough flashing LED, you wouldn't even need one (although I will confess the EIS's is nice to have). It might be time to ask yourself about the mission of the airplane, how complex it needs to be, and how much you want it to weigh. An EIS is worth it's weight in gold in an airplane, with all the appropriate sensors, programmable trip points, data stream output, and a whole lot of other benefits, but I personally wouldn't have much use for this annunciator box Mark Langford ML at N56ML.com website at http://www.N56ML.com
KR> annunciators box
I came across an annunciator control box made by Flight Data Systems ( http://www.fdatasystems.com/Products/AN-21/AN-21.html ) and wanted to know if anyone had used this unit. I imagine the EIS systems have something similar but I am not installing and EIS so I thought this may be an nice alternative. Craig www.kr2seafury.com
