KR> how many KRs at Chino?

[Jeff Scott]

If you want to get an article published, you are going to need to sell the 
author on the article, and in turn he will need to sell the publisher on the 
idea that the article will help sell the magazine.  Before writing an article, 
one might want to see if you can convince Dave that it has merit and would be 
of interest to the world of amateur aircraft builders.  The problem you have in 
doing that is that you want to publish an article taunting an aircraft that is 
well outside the published bounds of the kit "manufacturer".  We all know those 
numbers are phony.  Never-the-less, they are still what is published in the 
advertising, including in "Kitplanes".  Dave might be willing to write a second 
article, but I suspect Kitplanes is more likely to think they have given the KR 
line enough attention for a while.

FWIW, Dave is no idiot.  He's an EAA tech counselor and long time writer for 
Kitplanes.  But he has to have something he can convince the magazine they can 
sell.  Somehow I'm thinking a rebuttal article isn't going to make that.  But 
put in the right light, it could happen.  I've got Dave's contact information 
if you're interested.

-Jeff Scott


>
> I just read the article. Overall I thought it was decent with a few
> exceptions. Everyone has their own opinions and we don't need to get into a
> pi$$ing match about this. Earl brings up a valid point about doing a follow
> up article as well as Larry's statements about the true specs of today's
> KRs. I mean, what can I say I flew my KR2S with 450 pounds of meat sitting
> in it and it flew great and that was right at 1300 lbs gross.  Just longer
> take off roll, slower climb and longer landing roll.  If someone knows Dave
> Prizio at Kitplanes and how to get in touch with him maybe they would like
> to do a follow up article and call it "Today's REAL WORLD KR".
> 
> Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> Stevens Point, WI 
> Email: flykr2s at charter.net
> Web: www.flykr2s.com

KR> how many KRs at Chino?

[Dj Merrill]

On 03/27/2015 09:42 AM, Mark Jones via KRnet wrote:
> If someone knows Dave
> Prizio at Kitplanes and how to get in touch with him maybe they would like
> to do a follow up article and call it "Today's REAL WORLD KR".


Contact editorial at kitplanes.com and they should be able to work out the
connections.

http://www.kitplanes.com/contact/

-Dj


-- 
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

KR> how many KRs at Chino?

[tommy waymack]

I think we just did .Tommy W.


On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 8:42 AM, Mark Jones via KRnet 
wrote:

> I just read the article. Overall I thought it was decent with a few
> exceptions. Everyone has their own opinions and we don't need to get into a
> pi$$ing match about this. Earl brings up a valid point about doing a follow
> up article as well as Larry's statements about the true specs of today's
> KRs. I mean, what can I say I flew my KR2S with 450 pounds of meat sitting
> in it and it flew great and that was right at 1300 lbs gross.  Just longer
> take off roll, slower climb and longer landing roll.  If someone knows Dave
> Prizio at Kitplanes and how to get in touch with him maybe they would like
> to do a follow up article and call it "Today's REAL WORLD KR".
>
> Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> Stevens Point, WI
> Email: flykr2s at charter.net
> Web: www.flykr2s.com
>
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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> options
>

KR> how many KRs at Chino?

[Earl Klinker]

Hi all,

I am normally a quiet sideline type person as I have not built the KR 
yet but am trying to get more planning done.  I am wondering if it would 
be possible to give Dave Prizio the praises he deserves by attending the 
gathering and writing the article but also have the experts like Larry 
Flesner, Mark Langford, Mark Jones and others write a followup that 
highlights the realities of this beautiful aircraft to include a 
realistic data sheet that would be an average of the current planes.

I know I have many questions but am researching the archives first. My 
plan is to build the KR2S but to fit under the LSA category. This goes 
along with my dad's, and my,  philosophy of "Fair Weather Sunday Pilot" 
and keeping cost down as I cannot afford the commercial LSA aircraft.

Just my 2 cents.

Hope to see some of you at Sun 'n Fun.

Earl Klinker
Tampa, FL

On 3/27/2015 8:52 AM, Flesner via KRnet wrote:
> At 11:21 PM 3/26/2015, you wrote:
>> Very few KRs "cruise" at 180 mph. Very few KRs make a 980# gross 
>> weight.  Very few KRs are 520# empty weight.  Over the last 20 years, 
>> the members of this forum have made great strides in improving the 
>> handling characteristics and safety of the plane.  Adrian Carter's 
>> quote of a sudden hard breaking stall then pointing straight down is 
>> inconsistent with the gentle stall I see in my KR and others report 
>> as well.  The $35,000 finished aircraft number will likely generate a 
>> lot of discussion.  I hear some pilots claim unbelievably low costs 
>> like they are reporting to the local tax board.  I know I had mine 
>> flying 18 years ago for $15K, but likely have around $30+K in it by 
>> now, but that includes 1050 hrs of wear and tear, maintenance and 
>> upgrades.
> +
>  
>
>
> Thanks, Jeff.  That's exactly what I saw negative about the article.  
> You didn't mention that it is a sweet flying , economical airplane.  
> My apologies to Dave Prizio.  I guess he did his job by attending and 
> asking questions.  It appears I should be beating up on the KR 
> community for not telling about todays KR's. Todays KR's are not the 
> KR that Ken Rand built.  Ken was 5'4" and weighed maybe 130 pounds.  
> The most poplar shirt size at the Gatherings I hosted was Large and 
> Extra Large.  The KR's we're building today are coming in nearer the 
> 750 pound range than 480 and really need 100 hp to perform well.  I 
> guess after 25 years in the KR community I'm getting tired of the 
> mythical data sheet still being laid on the unsuspecting future 
> builder.  T.O. distance 350 feet, landing distance 600 feet,  cruise 
> 180, empty weight 520 pounds, gross 980 pounds, 1080 mile range (with 
> 35 gallon tanks).  Really, how many KR's being built have 35 gallon 
> tanks. When full, that's the equivalent of a 210 pound passenger. And 
> all this is typical performance using a 2180 VW???  Us in the know 
> just say "yea, right" and move on.  Those not in the know looking at 
> these numbers would say " awesome, I'm going to build a KR and fly it 
> out of the field behind my house".  I'd just like to see an up front 
> honest article about todays KR's and how they are a great "bang for 
> the buck", nice flying, sweet little airplane. Anyway, that's my story 
> and I'm sticking to it.  No hard feelings on my part over any 
> disagreements.
>
> Larry Flesner
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to 
> change options

KR> how many KRs at Chino?

[Mark Jones]

I just read the article. Overall I thought it was decent with a few
exceptions. Everyone has their own opinions and we don't need to get into a
pi$$ing match about this. Earl brings up a valid point about doing a follow
up article as well as Larry's statements about the true specs of today's
KRs. I mean, what can I say I flew my KR2S with 450 pounds of meat sitting
in it and it flew great and that was right at 1300 lbs gross.  Just longer
take off roll, slower climb and longer landing roll.  If someone knows Dave
Prizio at Kitplanes and how to get in touch with him maybe they would like
to do a follow up article and call it "Today's REAL WORLD KR".

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI 
Email: flykr2s at charter.net
Web: www.flykr2s.com

KR> how many KRs at Chino?

[Flesner]

At 11:21 PM 3/26/2015, you wrote:
>Very few KRs "cruise" at 180 mph. Very few KRs make a 980# gross 
>weight.  Very few KRs are 520# empty weight.  Over the last 20 
>years, the members of this forum have made great strides in 
>improving the handling characteristics and safety of the 
>plane.  Adrian Carter's quote of a sudden hard breaking stall then 
>pointing straight down is inconsistent with the gentle stall I see 
>in my KR and others report as well.  The $35,000 finished aircraft 
>number will likely generate a lot of discussion.  I hear some pilots 
>claim unbelievably low costs like they are reporting to the local 
>tax board.  I know I had mine flying 18 years ago for $15K, but 
>likely have around $30+K in it by now, but that includes 1050 hrs of 
>wear and tear, maintenance and upgrades.
+

Thanks, Jeff.  That's exactly what I saw negative about the 
article.  You didn't mention that it is a sweet flying , economical 
airplane.  My apologies to Dave Prizio.  I guess he did his job by 
attending and asking questions.  It appears I should be beating up on 
the KR community for not telling about todays KR's.  Todays KR's are 
not the KR that Ken Rand built.  Ken was 5'4" and weighed maybe 130 
pounds.  The most poplar shirt size at the Gatherings I hosted was 
Large and Extra Large.  The KR's we're building today are coming in 
nearer the 750 pound range than 480 and really need 100 hp to perform 
well.  I guess after 25 years in the KR community I'm getting tired 
of the mythical data sheet still being laid on the unsuspecting 
future builder.  T.O. distance 350 feet, landing distance 600 
feet,  cruise 180, empty weight 520 pounds, gross 980 pounds, 1080 
mile range (with 35 gallon tanks).  Really, how many KR's being built 
have 35 gallon tanks. When full, that's the equivalent of a 210 pound 
passenger.  And all this is typical performance using a 2180 
VW???  Us in the know just say "yea, right" and move on.  Those not 
in the know looking at these numbers would say " awesome, I'm going 
to build a KR and fly it out of the field behind my house".  I'd just 
like to see an up front honest article about todays KR's and how they 
are a great "bang for the buck", nice flying, sweet little 
airplane.  Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.  No hard 
feelings on my part over any disagreements.

Larry Flesner 

KR> how many KRs at Chino?

[Jeff Scott]

> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 10:01 PM
> From: "Chris Prata via KRnet" 
>
> I actually read the Kitplanes article and would like to ask what the glaring 
> errors, omissions, misstatements are, I am asking for educational reasons. I 
> do know the "specs" chart is hopelessly outdated and optimistic. That's a 
> legacy issue. Anything else though?
> 

Very few KRs "cruise" at 180 mph. Very few KRs make a 980# gross weight.  Very 
few KRs are 520# empty weight.  Over the last 20 years, the members of this 
forum have made great strides in improving the handling characteristics and 
safety of the plane.  Adrian Carter's quote of a sudden hard breaking stall 
then pointing straight down is inconsistent with the gentle stall I see in my 
KR and others report as well.  The $35,000 finished aircraft number will likely 
generate a lot of discussion.  I hear some pilots claim unbelievably low costs 
like they are reporting to the local tax board.  I know I had mine flying 18 
years ago for $15K, but likely have around $30+K in it by now, but that 
includes 1050 hrs of wear and tear, maintenance and upgrades.

Larry is clearly offended by the inaccuracies in the article.  I see it as an 
overall positive and upbeat article.  Even though I came down on Larry a bit 
here, know that Larry and I are good friends and it's only a spirited 
discussion.  It's OK for us to disagree.

-Jeff Scott

KR> how many KRs at Chino?

[Jeff Scott]

Larry,

Your first post started off with "Well, well, well, another magazine article 
written from someone's basement."  Dave Prizio, a staff writer for Kitplanes, 
was at the KR Gathering and interviewed many of the pilots and the manufacturer 
that's selling plans and parts.  Do you have a better suggestion for how he 
should cover the KR Gathering and learn about the KRs?  As an outside observer 
at the KR Gathering, he wrote what he heard from the "factory" and the pilots.

Overall, the article was upbeat and portrayed the aircraft in a positive light. 
 Yes, there are some glaring errors, omissions and misstatements.  Every news 
or magazine article you read will have them.  You don't have to agree with my 
opinion that it's positive press, but the comments implying that the guy was 
writing in a vacuum are false and unbecoming.

How would he know to ask about the "new" airfoil and other information contrary 
to the "factory" specs unless someone he interviews talks to him about it?  He 
wasn't making a study of the aircraft.  He was doing a fluff piece to give 
Steve and the KR line some positive press.  

-Jeff Scott





> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 5:18 PM
> From: "Flesner via KRnet" 
> To: KRnet 
> Subject: Re: KR> how many KRs at Chino?
>
> At 09:00 AM 3/26/2015, you wrote:
> >Guys, go back and re-read the article.  The number "40 or so" was in 
> >reference to the number of attendees, not the number of planes.
> ++
> 
> I stand corrected on the "40 KR's" but I stand behind the rest of my 
> "nit picking".  Someone not familiar with the KR aircraft and reading 
> the article might go away with the impression that it may well cost 
> $35,000 to build, it will fall out of the sky when it stalls, that 
> they can build a 180 mph KR that will weigh 540 pounds.  In reality, 
> the KR is not a good two place cross country aircraft unless widened 
> at the shoulders and the CG managed well, that the typical KR2s now 
> being built, with a 100 hp engine and electrical system, will 
> probably come in at 700+ pounds, that the 980 gross in the USA is not 
> a limit, that you're not going to get 180 cruise unless you demand 
> that most of your 100 horses help pull the wagon and, that in fact, a 
> well built KR is a safe,  sporty, nice flying airplane as anyone that 
> has any time in a KR will attest to.  Without re-reading the article, 
> I don't recall anything about the new airfoil and the efforts of the 
> KR community to bring it to reality.
> 
> Those of us that have been part of the KR community for 25 years or 
> more easily read past and discount the half true or untrue 
> information in the article based on 40 year old company supplied 
> marketing information used in the article.  Only factual information 
> based on KR's being built today will help bring more builders to our 
> community and would help to eliminate the many abandoned projects we 
> see posted on the net weekly.  Anyone starting a KR needs to have a 
> realistic idea of what the final results of thousand of hours of 
> effort and dollars will produce.
> 
> Larry Flesner 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options
> 

KR> how many KRs at Chino?

[Mark Wegmet]

Just got my Kitplanes mag today and read the KR article... author said 11
planes and about 40 "KR" guys; I thought it was spot on from an outsiders
perspective. If you guys want to whine, send a better article to the
magazine. JMHO.

Mark W.
N952MW (res)

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Scott
via KRnet
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:21 PM
To: chrisprata at live.com; krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: Re: KR> how many KRs at Chino?



> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 10:01 PM
> From: "Chris Prata via KRnet" 
>
> I actually read the Kitplanes article and would like to ask what the
glaring errors, omissions, misstatements are, I am asking for educational
reasons. I do know the "specs" chart is hopelessly outdated and optimistic.
That's a legacy issue. Anything else though?
> 

Very few KRs "cruise" at 180 mph. Very few KRs make a 980# gross weight.
Very few KRs are 520# empty weight.  Over the last 20 years, the members of
this forum have made great strides in improving the handling characteristics
and safety of the plane.  Adrian Carter's quote of a sudden hard breaking
stall then pointing straight down is inconsistent with the gentle stall I
see in my KR and others report as well.  The $35,000 finished aircraft
number will likely generate a lot of discussion.  I hear some pilots claim
unbelievably low costs like they are reporting to the local tax board.  I
know I had mine flying 18 years ago for $15K, but likely have around $30+K
in it by now, but that includes 1050 hrs of wear and tear, maintenance and
upgrades.

Larry is clearly offended by the inaccuracies in the article.  I see it as
an overall positive and upbeat article.  Even though I came down on Larry a
bit here, know that Larry and I are good friends and it's only a spirited
discussion.  It's OK for us to disagree.

-Jeff Scott

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KR> how many KRs at Chino?

[Chris Prata]

I actually read the Kitplanes article and would like to ask what the glaring 
errors, omissions, misstatements are, I am asking for educational reasons. I do 
know the "specs" chart is hopelessly outdated and optimistic. That's a legacy 
issue. Anything else though?

KR> how many KRs at Chino?

[Flesner]

At 09:00 AM 3/26/2015, you wrote:
>Guys, go back and re-read the article.  The number "40 or so" was in 
>reference to the number of attendees, not the number of planes.
++

I stand corrected on the "40 KR's" but I stand behind the rest of my 
"nit picking".  Someone not familiar with the KR aircraft and reading 
the article might go away with the impression that it may well cost 
$35,000 to build, it will fall out of the sky when it stalls, that 
they can build a 180 mph KR that will weigh 540 pounds.  In reality, 
the KR is not a good two place cross country aircraft unless widened 
at the shoulders and the CG managed well, that the typical KR2s now 
being built, with a 100 hp engine and electrical system, will 
probably come in at 700+ pounds, that the 980 gross in the USA is not 
a limit, that you're not going to get 180 cruise unless you demand 
that most of your 100 horses help pull the wagon and, that in fact, a 
well built KR is a safe,  sporty, nice flying airplane as anyone that 
has any time in a KR will attest to.  Without re-reading the article, 
I don't recall anything about the new airfoil and the efforts of the 
KR community to bring it to reality.

Those of us that have been part of the KR community for 25 years or 
more easily read past and discount the half true or untrue 
information in the article based on 40 year old company supplied 
marketing information used in the article.  Only factual information 
based on KR's being built today will help bring more builders to our 
community and would help to eliminate the many abandoned projects we 
see posted on the net weekly.  Anyone starting a KR needs to have a 
realistic idea of what the final results of thousand of hours of 
effort and dollars will produce.

Larry Flesner 

KR> how many KRs at Chino?

[Jeff Scott]

Guys, go back and re-read the article.  The number "40 or so" was in reference 
to the number of attendees, not the number of planes.  Number of attendees was 
something well north of 40, but most of the time I saw 30 - 40 folks hanging 
around.  Dave Prizio was there and talked to a number of builders and pilots.  
The quotes about stalls and speeds came directly from various KR pilots and 
published Rand Robinson/NvAero numbers, which he credits with the quotes.  
Some, like Adrian Carters quote about stalls he must have found on line.  
Adrian was on the KRNet some 15 years ago, but I haven't seen anything posted 
from him for many years, so I don't know where Dave dug that up.  In reference 
to Mark, he was giving you credit for creating the EAA Webinar.  Dave may very 
well have thought you attended as your name came up a number of times and there 
was some confusion about whether you were going to show up late or not.  
Whether you actually made it there or not wasn't really pertinent to the 
statement giving you credit for creating the webinar.

Overall, based on the fact that the information in the article came directly 
from the KR pilots, I thought Dave wrote a fair piece.  The only way he could 
write a fair article about the flight characteristics of the plane would be if 
one of us handed him the keys and sent him off for an evaluation.  I'm not 
handing over my KR to another pilot.  How about you?

Give the guy a break.  Dave Prizio gave the KRs and the KR gathering some good 
publicity.  As a whole, he portrayed the KR line as a  small, high performance, 
inexpensive aircraft that is highly customizable.  I can't disagree with any of 
that.  The stuff you guys are griping about is noise level, nit picking 
non-sense.

-Jeff Scott

>
> So how many KRs made it to Chino last year?  I KNOW it wasn't 40, but would
> like to know the real number.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  
> 
> Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
> 
> ML at N56ML.com
> 
>   www.N56ML.com 

KR> how many KRs at Chino?

[Paul Visk]

I think there was 10 KR's??there.?

Paul Visk
Belleville I'll
618 406 4705

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S?4

 Original message 
From: Mark Langford via KRnet  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date:03/26/2015  7:38 AM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: KRnet  
Subject: KR> how many KRs at Chino? 

So how many KRs made it to Chino last year?? I KNOW it wasn't 40, but would
like to know the real number.



Thanks,



Mark Langford, Harvest, AL

ML at N56ML.com

<http://www.N56ML.com> www.N56ML.com 





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KR> how many KRs at Chino?

[Mark Langford]

So how many KRs made it to Chino last year?  I KNOW it wasn't 40, but would
like to know the real number.



Thanks,



Mark Langford, Harvest, AL

ML at N56ML.com

  www.N56ML.com