KR> Re: Engine Rebuild

[Mark Jones]

You guys are not going to believe what I discovered today. I have a mechanic 
friend (not an A) who shares the same hangar as I do and he loves working on 
engines. If you remember, back in December, I removed my rear housing and found 
that my oil pump was dragging and hard to turn. Well, I had another rear 
housing that I had acquired and was going to be installed as the replacement of 
my bad one. These housings were laying on the bench for about a week before I 
installed the new one back on my engine. I did not bother to check the movement 
of the oil pump gears because I had already done it a week earlier so I simply 
installed it on my engine thinking all was good to go. Today, I learned that my 
hangar mate, in the interim, decided he wanted to compare the two oil pumps so 
he took a look inside the oil pumps. He told me this today as we were working 
on my engine. I could not believe he had done this and had not told me. When he 
re-assembled the good pump, he made two huge mistakes. First he sprayed a thick 
coat of Permatex Copper Gasket sealer on the gasket which was already stuck to 
the oil pump cover. He also coated the surface area where the pump gears ride 
which helped attribute to the binding. Second, he over torqued the oil pump 
cover which in turn compressed the gasket even further causing even more 
binding. Another lesson learned: do not let anyone work on your engine but you 
or a certified Corvair person. Gotta love experimental. Just call me the 
"Corvair Proof of Concept Man" because I have no doubt tested all the bad ways 
to fly a Corvair. It takes a licking and keeps on ticking. 

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI 
Visit my web site: www.flykr2s.com
E-mail: flyk...@wi.rr.com

KR> Re: Engine Rebuild

[phil brookman]

well thats a story -you are right some things are best done yourself
btw mark i hvae bourght a nother kr needs fettling though probably more than 
i think
will send pictures can you put them on my web page
phill
- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Jones" <flyk...@wi.rr.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>; "Corvair Net" <corvaircr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:27 PM
Subject: KR> Re: Engine Rebuild


> You guys are not going to believe what I discovered today. I have a 
> mechanic friend (not an A) who shares the same hangar as I do and he 
> loves working on engines. If you remember, back in December, I removed my 
> rear housing and found that my oil pump was dragging and hard to turn. 
> Well, I had another rear housing that I had acquired and was going to be 
> installed as the replacement of my bad one. These housings were laying on 
> the bench for about a week before I installed the new one back on my 
> engine. I did not bother to check the movement of the oil pump gears 
> because I had already done it a week earlier so I simply installed it on 
> my engine thinking all was good to go. Today, I learned that my hangar 
> mate, in the interim, decided he wanted to compare the two oil pumps so he 
> took a look inside the oil pumps. He told me this today as we were working 
> on my engine. I could not believe he had done this and had not told me. 
> When he re-assembled the good pump, he made two huge mistakes. First he 
> sprayed a thick coat of Permatex Copper Gasket sealer on the gasket which 
> was already stuck to the oil pump cover. He also coated the surface area 
> where the pump gears ride which helped attribute to the binding. Second, 
> he over torqued the oil pump cover which in turn compressed the gasket 
> even further causing even more binding. Another lesson learned: do not let 
> anyone work on your engine but you or a certified Corvair person. Gotta 
> love experimental. Just call me the "Corvair Proof of Concept Man" because 
> I have no doubt tested all the bad ways to fly a Corvair. It takes a 
> licking and keeps on ticking.
>
> Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> Wales, WI
> Visit my web site: www.flykr2s.com
> E-mail: flyk...@wi.rr.com
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
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KR> Re: Engine Rebuild

[jscott.pi...@juno.com]

And this guy is still walking and breathing???!!!  Last guy that was in
my hanger that couldn't keep his hands off my engine parts was marched
out the hanger door and was told in no uncertain terms never to return. 
I can't believe that someone would to that, then keep their mouth shut
while you go try to kill yourself with that engine.  There are a few
things that will really light my fire, and your hanger mate committed one
of the big ones.

Jeff Scott


On Tue, 1 May 2007 17:27:13 -0500 "Mark Jones" 
writes:
> You guys are not going to believe what I discovered today. I have a 
> mechanic friend (not an A) who shares the same hangar as I do and 
> he loves working on engines. If you remember, back in December, I 
> removed my rear housing and found that my oil pump was dragging and 
> hard to turn. Well, I had another rear housing that I had acquired 
> and was going to be installed as the replacement of my bad one. 
> These housings were laying on the bench for about a week before I 
> installed the new one back on my engine. I did not bother to check 
> the movement of the oil pump gears because I had already done it a 
> week earlier so I simply installed it on my engine thinking all was 
> good to go. Today, I learned that my hangar mate, in the interim, 
> decided he wanted to compare the two oil pumps so he took a look 
> inside the oil pumps. He told me this today as we were working on my 
> engine. I could not believe he had done this and had not told me. 
> When he re-assembled the good pump, he made two huge mistakes. First 
> he sprayed a thick coat of Permatex Copper Gasket sealer on the 
> gasket which was already stuck to the oil pump cover. He also coated 
> the surface area where the pump gears ride which helped attribute to 
> the binding. Second, he over torqued the oil pump cover which in 
> turn compressed the gasket even further causing even more binding. 
> Another lesson learned: do not let anyone work on your engine but 
> you or a certified Corvair person. Gotta love experimental. Just 
> call me the "Corvair Proof of Concept Man" because I have no doubt 
> tested all the bad ways to fly a Corvair. It takes a licking and 
> keeps on ticking. 
> 
> Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> Wales, WI 
> Visit my web site: www.flykr2s.com
> E-mail: flyk...@wi.rr.com

KR> RE: engine oil

[Joe Beyer]

I use 30 w Valvoline Racing oil or Kendall. Castrol is also good. When using
an automotive plug, be sure to reduce the plug gap. Magnetos are not as hot
as a battery system unless they're up to speed. 

-Joe  

> Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 02:47:03 EST
> From: mtmcgo...@aol.com
> Subject: KR> Engine Oil
> To: kr...@mylist.net
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> 
> As the old saying goes--"the only  stupid question is the one 
> that is not asked"--or something like that.
> Anyway, what brand oil 
> are most KR pilots using?  
> Any opinions on the 
> automobile spark plug conversion when using a Magneto?
>
> Mike McGowan
>  N4288C
> 
> 

KR> Re: Engine CHT temps

[albert cassar]

HI All
   I have a type 4 vw in a Jodel D18 and have duel CHT. I monitor the
two back cylinders from the spark plug point
However some time ago while I was removing the plugs for general inspection
I broke the ring that the plug goes through
so I clamped it to one of the fins on the head about mine way on the head.
during normal operation it reads about 50Deg lower than the other side so
from that I figured that the plug point must be the hottest point and as the
plug is threaded in to the alloy head  that would be the first or at list
around vicinity of the plug would start to melt (so to speak )first. And
also from some of the vw heads  that I seen which have been over heated the
plug area is always the point were it melts first.
So personally I think this would be the best point to monitor. (Just my
thoughts)

Albert Cassar






-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
Behalf Of Orma
Sent: Tuesday, 23 August 2005 5:42 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Re: Engine CHT temps


Steve Bennett told me that the reading under the plug is always hotter then
the other location you might pick.  A manual that lists the temp and
specifies a location for the probe may only be accurate at that specific
location, and if you move the sender to a different place, the same
temperature range may not apply.   I would think that under the exhaust stud
will give you information that you will have know way of knowing the value
of.   Consider that the EGT probe which is installed as close to the head as
possible will read gas temps as high as 1600 deg.  I have 4 cylinder CHT on
my KR with type 4 engine, and one of the probes is located as close to the
factory CHT hole as I could get it.   I use the numbers in my KR manual.

Orma
Southfield, MI
N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year
Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust
http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/



___
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KR> Re: Engine CHT temps

[Peter Drake]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mac McConnell-Wood 
  To: peterdr...@kingslandstabling.com 
  Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:57 PM
  Subject: Engine CHT temps


  Peter,  Can you ask the group what are acceptable CHT temps for a 
Revmaster/VW, .I have a Revmaster running at the bottom end of the green scale 
i.e 300 deg f ,and my test pilot reckons it's too low , and won't fly it ! 
  For some reason I can't post to the KR net directly since I changed to 
Hotmail  . 
 Regards  , Mac.
  macw...@hotmail.co.ukG-BVZJ 
  --- 

KR> Re: Engine CHT temps

[Dan Heath]

I am looking at the GPASC Engine manual. These are both VW and the heads
should be the same and they should operate at the same temps. CHT Cruise 350
- 375 deg. F, during climb for 5 minutes, 420 deg. F. do not exceed 450 deg.
F. If you need anything else from this book, let me know, or you may be able
to get it off http://www.greatplainsas.com/



See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering

See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics 

There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building
has expired.

Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC

---Original Message---



From: Peter Drake

List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 08/22/05 03:47:53

To: KRnet

Subject: KR> Re: Engine CHT temps



- Original Message -

From: Mac McConnell-Wood

To: peterdr...@kingslandstabling.com

Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:57 PM

Subject: Engine CHT temps





Peter, Can you ask the group what are acceptable CHT temps for a
Revmaster/VW, .I have a Revmaster running at the bottom end of the green
scale i.e 300 deg f ,and my test pilot reckons it's too low , and won't fly
it !

For some reason I can't post to the KR net directly since I changed to
Hotmail .

Regards , Mac.

macw...@hotmail.co.uk G-BVZJ

---

___

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KR> Re: Engine CHT temps

[patrusso]

Interesting. I have taken every flight report I could find, from 1980 to 
present and where reported, CHT is averaging  about 350 deg. They do not 
mention the kind of sensor used or it's location which I am sure will have 
some effect.

- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Heath" <da...@alltel.net>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 5:09 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Re: Engine CHT temps


>I am looking at the GPASC Engine manual. These are both VW and the heads
> should be the same and they should operate at the same temps. CHT Cruise 
> 350
> - 375 deg. F, during climb for 5 minutes, 420 deg. F. do not exceed 450 
> deg.

>
>
>
>
>
> Peter, Can you ask the group what are acceptable CHT temps for a
> Revmaster/VW, .I have a Revmaster running at the bottom end of the green
> scale i.e 300 deg f ,and my test pilot reckons it's too low , and won't 
> fly
> it !
>
>
> ---
>
> ___
>
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html 

KR> Re: Engine CHT temps

[Mark Langford]

Mac Wood wrote:

>   what are acceptable CHT temps for a Revmaster/VW, .I have a Revmaster 
> running at the bottom end of the green scale i.e 300 deg f ,and my test 
> pilot reckons it's too low , and won't fly it !

I recently read in the SkyRanch Engineering Manual something to the effect 
"if at all possible, try to maintain cruise head temperatures below 300 
degrees F for maximum engine life".  Just because some manuals call out 
certain "expected" CHTs doesn't mean you have to be that high!  I would make 
the argument that if it's running that cool, it's either getting too much 
air (and therefore cooling drag), or maybe the gauge is not quite accurate. 
Still, I certainly don't think 300F is too cool  to worry about.

>  For some reason I can't post to the KR net directly since I changed to 
> Hotmail  .

No clue on that one, although Hotmail is notoriously unreliable...

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net 

KR> Re: Engine CHT temps

[larry severson]

>   Peter,  Can you ask the group what are acceptable CHT temps for a 
> Revmaster/VW, .I have a Revmaster running at the bottom end of the green 
> scale i.e 300 deg f ,and my test pilot reckons it's too low , and won't 
> fly it !

My Revmaster uses J wires held in the head with allen screws. These tend to 
read 50 degrees F lower than wires below the spark plugs. Also, you might 
want to google the web for info on the j temp probes. Depending on your 
method of running the sensor wire from the engine to the gage, you can end 
up with much lower temp readings.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
lar...@socal.rr.com 

KR> Re: Engine CHT temps

[Dan Heath]

Why does anyone need HotMail when there are free ones available.



Also, I too found it odd that a CHT could possibly be too cool unless it is
a sign that you are dumping pure gas into the cylinder. 



See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering

See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics 

There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building
has expired.

Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC

---Original Message---

try to maintain cruise head temperatures below 300

degrees F for maximum engine life". Still, I certainly don't think 300F is
too cool to worry about.

No clue on that one, although Hotmail is notoriously unreliable...

KR> Re: Engine CHT temps

[Steve Bray]

Hotmail is free.
If anyone is intrested email me at rsb...@gmail.com and I'll send you an 
invite. Its invite only, free and has so much memory that it doesn't have a 
delete button ! Its a Goggle test that started at Los Alamos Lab.

Steve Bray
Jackson, Tennessee




>From: "Dan Heath" <da...@alltel.net>
>Reply-To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
>To: <kr...@mylist.net>
>Subject: Re: KR> Re: Engine CHT temps
>Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 17:34:16 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>
>Why does anyone need HotMail when there are free ones available.
>
>
>
>Also, I too found it odd that a CHT could possibly be too cool unless it is
>a sign that you are dumping pure gas into the cylinder.
>
>
>
>See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering
>
>See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics
>
>There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for 
>building
>has expired.
>
>Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC
>
>---Original Message---
>
>try to maintain cruise head temperatures below 300
>
>degrees F for maximum engine life". Still, I certainly don't think 300F is
>too cool to worry about.
>
>No clue on that one, although Hotmail is notoriously unreliable...
>
>
>
>
>___
>Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Re: Engine CHT temps

[Joe Beyer]

patrusso wrote:


>Interesting. I have taken every flight report I could find, from 1980 to
>present and where reported, CHT is averaging  about 350 deg. They do not
>mention the kind of sensor used or it's location which I am sure will have
>some effect.

I have an engine manual published in the '70s by BAC By Bill Broadley on VW
engine conversion. Some of the ideas in there are pretty good. It has a
section on operating specs. This is for a 1500cc engine with a vertex mag
and one of those Eoropean VW side draft carburetors. The CHT is 300 deg. F
normal, 450 deg. max. 500 deg. F redline. The thermocouple is taken at #3
cylinder under the spark plug. I have had mine at this location and have
found it to be a problem with maintenance. I've located it under the #3
upper cylinder stud, between the nut and the washer and it reads a little
cool at that location, so I've decided to locate it at the lower #3 exhaust
flange nut where it gets good and hot. I'm going to have to make some parts
up to fit it all together. The BAC manual recomends that the oil temp. to
be, 180 deg. F normal, 200 deg. F maxium, and 240 deg. F redline. These are
about the numbers I'm getting on my 1641cc VW. Nothing on exhaust gas temp.
from this manual. Oil preasure at 2500 rpm is 28 lbs. (I get 30 lbs. on my
engine at this rpm.) Yellow line is 40 lbs. and red line is 50 lbs. At 350
rpm it's 7 lbs. I hope this helps.

-Joe

KR> Re: Engine CHT temps

[Orma]

Steve Bennett told me that the reading under the plug is always hotter then 
the other location you might pick.  A manual that lists the temp and 
specifies a location for the probe may only be accurate at that specific 
location, and if you move the sender to a different place, the same 
temperature range may not apply.   I would think that under the exhaust stud 
will give you information that you will have know way of knowing the value 
of.   Consider that the EGT probe which is installed as close to the head as 
possible will read gas temps as high as 1600 deg.  I have 4 cylinder CHT on 
my KR with type 4 engine, and one of the probes is located as close to the 
factory CHT hole as I could get it.   I use the numbers in my KR manual.

Orma
Southfield, MI
N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year
Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust
http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ 

KR> Re: Engine CHT temps

[Dan Heath]

Some VW heads have a place for bolting on the CHT probe. On ours, it is on
top of the aft pilot side cylinder. I have always used under the plug until
I discovered this. I figure if that is where VW intended for the temp to be
probed, then I will probe it there and see what I get.



See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering

See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics 

There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building
has expired.

Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC

---Original Message---

Steve Bennett told me that the reading under the plug is always hotter then

the other location you might pick. 

KR> RE: engine mount fasteners/ wing weight

[Phillip Matheson]

I have 9.8 gal tank, aileron w/balance, attach fittings, and nav lights &
wiring,  weight is 49 lbs.
--

Mike
Bolts, Sorry I'm at work and do not have my bolt gauge to check.

My wing weight is similar, around 50lb, but do not have a very exact figure,
wing tanks and not lights

Phil Matheson
mathe...@dodo.com.au
Australia
61 3 58833588
See our  VW Engines and home built Parts
and Kits at:
http://www.vw-engines.com/
www.homebuilt-aviation.com

KR> RE: engine mount fasteners

[Mike]

I am about to order bolts to fasten my engine mount to firewall and wanted to 
double check this, I need 4.5 in long X 3/8 dia. bolts the AN equivalent is, 
AN6-43 right? I have temporarily installed it with ordinary grade 8's, I know 
they would hold, but I think "AN" is "THE" right way and they aren't that much 
more. Oh I have also been wondering anyone know how much a wing (outer) weighs? 
I have 9.8 gal tank, aileron w/balance, attach fittings, and nav lights & 
wiring,  weight is 49 lbs.

  Thanks, 
Mike   

KR>Re: Engine stumble

[Brian Kraut]

Copying this to the net as several people have asked me to follow up after I 
find the problem.

In addition to the stumble I was having I also had a problem with the engine 
getting rough for up to a minute at a time.  That had happened twice in about 
20 hours of flying.  I added an EGT so I could make sure my mixture was correct 
since it is a lot harder to tell if the VW mixture is correct than it is on any 
certified plane I have flown.  I lucked out and got the EGT probe in the 
correct cylinder.  On the flight after I installed it the engine got rough for 
about a minute.  The EGT dropped all the way so it was apparent that that one 
cylinder just quit for a minute.  I believe the stumble was that one cylinder 
going out intermittently.

I narrowed the problem down to either a sticking valve or an ignition problem.  
I checked the plug, ignition lead, and the magneto distributor block and they 
all were fine so I was 99% sure that it was the valve sticking.  I ordered a 
new set of heads drilled for the second spark plug and the secondary ignition 
system from Great Plains.  Whatever the problem was I wanted to be sure it was 
licked before I flew again.

I just finished putting on the new heads today and will be back in the air 
tomorrow.  I removed the valve keepers and springs from the misbehaving head 
and to my surprise the valves seemed to not be sticking at all although it is 
very possible that that would change at operating temperature.  I am almost 
certain that the intake valve was sticking though because the one on the bad 
cylinder had carbon built up on the top of the valve and the intake also had 
some soot in it.  Apparently the intake valve was sticking and exhaust was 
blowing back through the valve.

Eric Evezard wrote:
Hi Brian,
I am contacting you direct as I have an identical problem.My KR 2 S is waiting 
for signoff for test flight.I have a 2L longblock type 4 VW with twin Zenith 
carbs,balanced.However,the moment the engine starts there is a stumble every 
minute or so and sometimes at shorter intervals.Otherwise it runs 
beautifully.The engine has run 2 hours to now and was a factory remanufactured 
engine with a years warranty.I can get 3000 rpm static with more to go on the 
throttle.I have ramair but have not used it yet,and run through the filter.My 
system sounds similar to yours.I do not have ram pressure to the float 
bowl.When the engine oil warms up the oil pressure gauge shows quite clearly a 
wiggle during the stumble.Firstly I am going to bring it to the attention to 
the examining engineer.I will let you know what happens.In the mean time I am 
also asking around.Please let me know if you cure your problem and how.
Best Regards,
Eric Evezard,
South Africa.