Re: [lace] How much did lace makers pay for high end bobbins. Reply

[Angel]

Dear Malvery
Ha, Ha,
Well, being the actual person behind the quote, I was responding to Brian’s 
question in a previous post, concerning how low paid workers got their hands on 
high end bobbins.
I agree with you that the usual material was bone. Ivory however was available 
via Kenya, South Africa, and other African areas the British Empire went (oh 
dear, we can’t forget India!) Anyway, we can’t discount the probability that 
ivory bobbins did and may still exist.
The main gist of the conversation was that there very likely was a class of 
bobbin buyers who were landed gentry, had more coin to spend on upper end 
bobbins and basically made lace as a leisure not as income.

Cearbhael 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 9, 2019, at 8:04 AM, Malvary Cole  wrote:
> 
> Brian wrote:
> 
> 3. This what the Arachne member said to me : Yes, I would love to know
> how low paid workers got their mitts on ivory mother and babes.
> 
> My thought/question is 'How many actual ivory bobbins whether they be mother 
> and babes or just plain are there?'
> 
> Ivory wasn't something readily available in the UK, so how was it obtained to 
> be used.  Bone - yes, lots of them...
> 
> Just my two pence worth.
> 
> Malvary in Ottawa

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Re: [lace] How much did lace makers pay for high end bobbins. Reply

[Malvary Cole]

Brian wrote:

3. This what the Arachne member said to me : Yes, I would love to know
how low paid workers got their mitts on ivory mother and babes.

My thought/question is 'How many actual ivory bobbins whether they be mother 
and babes or just plain are there?'


Ivory wasn't something readily available in the UK, so how was it obtained 
to be used.  Bone - yes, lots of them and I know people advertise bobbins 
for sale as ivory, but they are more likely bone.


Just my two pence worth.

Malvary in Ottawa where a sunny day with a temperature of 17c is forecast, 
but frost tonight.


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Re: [lace] How much did lace makers pay for high end bobbins. Reply

[Sue]

We hear of Nuns or the lady of the manor teaching children to make lace way 
back. most that I have heard from (partly during family history research are 
often daughters of agricultural workers, wives or agricultural workers or 
similar).
Lots of novels I read mention a nurse who tats, miles of tatting waiting for 
someone to marry and then use it on their bedding or whatever:)I have 
heard mention of tambour work, and embroidery by ladies of leisure, white 
work done by the young wives of a family.  We see paintings with the lady 
holding a fairly large tatting shuttle but I have never seen a large 
portrait with bobbin lace pillow included.   As you say it is usually the 
lower classes.  There are of course, small pictures of ladies making bobbin 
lace.

Sue T
Dorset UK

As usual, I am indebted to Arachne members for their response to my
question.

1. Most agreed with my proposed new motto about how much we  DO NOT
know.  All agreed.
2. It was suggested that our study of bobbins (basically relating from
Springett's book) is dealing with the high end of lace making.

3. This what the Arachne member said to me : Yes, I would love to know
how low paid workers got their mitts on ivory mother and babes. I am
suspecting that the "middle class" possibly made lace.  Possibly they made
it for their own use or possibly as a pass-time. Being in a class with more
coin to spend, their pillows would be decorated with better quality bobbins.
I would figure that [the better off] would be the ones that would be buying
ivory bobbins. Maybe servants were occasionally gifted a pair that was old
or slightly damaged, as a reward for service above and beyond?


Brian

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[lace] How much did lace makers pay for high end bobbins. Reply

[brido11]

As usual, I am indebted to Arachne members for their response to my
question.

1.  Most agreed with my proposed new motto about how much we  DO NOT
know.  All agreed.
2.  It was suggested that our study of bobbins (basically relating from
Springett's book) is dealing with the high end of lace making. 

I found that a very interesting observation that had never come to my
consciousness, though my bobbin partner  (The Diana Smith Collection) has
often titillated me with collections of "cottage bobbins" and all sorts of
"different" bobbins. Together we have puzzled on dating bobbins prior to
Springett.  We have identified quite a few different makers to add to
Springett's list.  I presume it will be up to someone with a genealogical
bent to explore this and do another Springett but prior to the 1770s.  A
very hard task and one which I would not contemplate.



3.  This what the Arachne member said to me : Yes, I would love to know
how low paid workers got their mitts on ivory mother and babes. I am
suspecting that the "middle class" possibly made lace.  Possibly they made
it for their own use or possibly as a pass-time. Being in a class with more
coin to spend, their pillows would be decorated with better quality bobbins.
I would figure that [the better off] would be the ones that would be buying
ivory bobbins. Maybe servants were occasionally gifted a pair that was old
or slightly damaged, as a reward for service above and beyond?

 

I would like to subscribe to that line of thought.  I have recently been
researching Marian Powys, she was  "from the genteel" class, her cousin Lady
Mary from the Blenheim area, gave Marian her the opportunity she had to
start making lace as a career choice.  With those "upper class" ladies in
mind, there would have been quite a few others that enjoyed lace-making
without it being their source of income. Thus they could afford "better"
bobbins.

 

I have to say that when I am thinking of historical lace making it is a
mature lady or a bunch of girls outside in the sun with their pillows.  I
had better have a bit of a rethink

 

Thanks again to you all.

 

Brian


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