Re: [lace] Modern v. traditional

[Diana Smith]

When I first saw traditional Bucks point pillow lace being made, nearly forty 
years ago, that was it that was what I wanted to do and I haven’t changed 
since. 
During those years I have dabbled in almost all bobbin laces also with needle, 
shuttle and hook - and colour, which I love, and even a little designing but 
the old laces of the East Midlands i.e, Bedfordshire, Bucks and 
Northamptonshire will always be my first love. Maybe my interest in the history 
of the craft has a lot to do with it and the fact that a grandmother way back 
was a lacemaker. 
I left school with no qualification what so ever, that came much later but 
that’s another story!
I’ve studied under Marjory Carter, also Pam Nottingham, Bridget Cooke, Vi 
Bullard and Barbara Underwood - to name a few. Marjory believed in making 
complete item such as motifs, mats and items for the dressing table. When I 
began a sample piece from an old pricking in one of her classes she said ‘waste 
of time’ and walked away. But even so she was generous with her time and 
knowledge.
Each to their own is my philosophy. 
Diana in Northamptonshire 


> On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, Sue Duckles  wrote:
> 
> Hi All, I usually lurk but... I'm sticking my head up here. 
> 
> There are those of us who are not interested in mathematics in it's pure 
> form, not interested in designing patterns when there are many patterns out 
> there already. We are the people who know what we like, we know if we can 
> work a design in colour, plain, fancy... rather like going into a shop and 
> deciding to buy the skirt in red floral rather than green plain. We like the 
> design and the colour was our choice. 
> 
> This shows that we are all interested in different forms of lace, 3 of us 
> meet up once a week, I love torchon and Bedfordshire, Milanese and honiton, 
> but I usually sit tatting, another of the group works on honiton only, whilst 
> the 'lady of the house' (it's her table we meet round), works on whatever 
> pattern she's come across that appeals to her. None of us design. If everyone 
> designed then there would be nobody to work our designs... they'd be too busy 
> working their own!
> 
> So, everyone has a personal preference, some people like modern settings, 
> some like traditional settings, some like early laces, some design their own. 
> We can't all be the same! The choices we all make for ourselves are based on 
> the finished article... unless you 'shove it in a cupboard to be ignored'! 
> What would be the point in that?? That'd be like shoving your husband in the 
> wardrobe... only allowing him out on odd occasions... lol!! 
> 
> 'Nuff said, we all know our choices!!
> 
> Sue in the UK

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Re: [lace] Modern v. traditional

[Ilske Thomsen]

Hello Alex,
why do you think so? I have the impression most of us prefer traditional lace. 
What ever one of us choose and like it is ok. Bobbin lace offers so multiple 
choices that everybody find something. And reading the answers it is like this.
By the way I like Chantilly and Flanders laces most and still work them but on 
the other side I like do to the nowadays way.

Ilske

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[lace] Modern v. traditional

[Jane Partridge]

Don't forget that traditional lace would once have been considered "modern" - 
laces like Maltese and Bedfordshire certainly followed the general designs in 
use in other media at the time, and all lace had to follow fashion to stay 
economically viable. In times gone by, it wasn't the lacemakers who designed 
the lace because working in a cottage industry they simply didn't have the time 
to consider working out their own patterns. It is possible that those who did 
"gave up the day job" to go it alone, or if they showed signs of having 
particular talent were "talent spotted or head-hunted" by the dealers who 
supervised their work. One would have had to have some financial independence 
to afford art and design training of any type, and in many cases those 
designing lace would probably have been working in wider fashion circles - the 
lace being designed to complement the item it was to adorn. The option for any 
lacemaker to start designing for him/herself would have most likely de!
 veloped with the onset of the adult education, when lace was being made as a 
hobby rather than as a means of earning a living. Design isn't for everyone, 
and as Sue pointed out, if we all designed, there would be no-one to work our 
patterns.  It is nice, though, when after designing a piece of lace (be it 
modern or traditional), you find out it has been worked by others - it makes 
the time spent working on the design worth it.

To some extent I think that whether in a class you have some or no students 
wishing to design is down to the motivation they are given - if the teacher is 
weak in his/her own design skills, then s/he is less likely to encourage her 
students to progress in that area (because, maybe subconsciously, s/he doesn't 
feel confident to guide them if they get stuck). If the teacher has an open 
mind, with a "why not try, and see if you like it" attitude, and gives the 
class some opportunity and guidence as to how to do their own thing, even if it 
is only changing elements in a Torchon pattern rather than sticking with the 
prescribed stitches, then some might wish to go further in that direction. In 
the past there have been some teachers who actively or accidentally suppressed 
any deviation by their students - maybe I'm not the only one to have been put 
off wearing a piece of jewellery I designed by the reaction to it by my teacher 
- fortunately that was reversed when I had the piece on!
  display when I was giving a demonstration and it got so many compliments I 
started wearing it again. 

It's a bit like having children - let them learn from their own mistakes, if 
they want to follow a particular direction, or work on one apect, let them - 
don't feel you, as a teacher, have to push them into what you want them to 
learn - sometimes they will carry on (though maybe only in class, for fear of 
upsetting you) - some will put their toes in the water and decide it isn't for 
them, others will take the traditional skills they have learned, and move them 
on into thicker threads, distorted grids and shapes, and wild colours - lace at 
the end of the day should be what pleases the lacemaker, regardless of whether 
it is a traditional pattern, designed donkeys' years ago and worked umpteen 
times, or something they lay musing about in the bath as a "I wonder what will 
happen if I use those threads?"

For the last three days I've been on a stand at New Street Station, Birmingham 
(UK), promoting the Great Little Trains of Wales; we had a seaside theme 
(complete with beach (breakdown last night included shovelling up the sand to 
go back to the beach it came from!) We were asked to take sunhats to wear - so 
out came mine with the lace (fish outlined by orange gimps set on blue Torchon 
ground) hatband I designed for a Lace Guild publication (the Penguin Pattern 
Book, which was a children's story book by Deborah Robinson, illustrated with 
lace patterns; now long out of print). Watching people passing through the 
station showed just how much lace is in fashion again now - from collars to 
skirts and dresses, and facinators - a modern fashion accessory. 

Wouldn't life be boring if we all did the same thing?

Jane Partridge


Alex said:
 It is
time for those of us who enjoy making and designing lace in the traditional
manner to stand up and say we should also have recognition for our art and
craft, and traditional lacemakers usually have a greater understanding of the
craft. If you go to any Lace Day the number of traditional lacemakers far
outweighs the number of modernists. I am currently running three classes and
have only two interested in designing.  So why the emphasis on modern lace?

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Re: [lace] Modern v. traditional

[Sue Duckles]

Hi All, I usually lurk but... I'm sticking my head up here. 

There are those of us who are not interested in mathematics in it's pure form, 
not interested in designing patterns when there are many patterns out there 
already. We are the people who know what we like, we know if we can work a 
design in colour, plain, fancy... rather like going into a shop and deciding to 
buy the skirt in red floral rather than green plain. We like the design and the 
colour was our choice. 

This shows that we are all interested in different forms of lace, 3 of us meet 
up once a week, I love torchon and Bedfordshire, Milanese and honiton, but I 
usually sit tatting, another of the group works on honiton only, whilst the 
'lady of the house' (it's her table we meet round), works on whatever pattern 
she's come across that appeals to her. None of us design. If everyone designed 
then there would be nobody to work our designs... they'd be too busy working 
their own!

So, everyone has a personal preference, some people like modern settings, some 
like traditional settings, some like early laces, some design their own. We 
can't all be the same! The choices we all make for ourselves are based on the 
finished article... unless you 'shove it in a cupboard to be ignored'! What 
would be the point in that?? That'd be like shoving your husband in the 
wardrobe... only allowing him out on odd occasions... lol!! 

'Nuff said, we all know our choices!!

Sue in the UK





Sent from my iPhone

> On 20 May 2018, at 09:23, Alex Stillwell  wrote:
> 
> Hi Arachnids
> 
> I have had many emails thanking me for making the case for traditional lace
> and thanking me for my stand, but all seem reluctant to stick their heads
> above the parapet.  I think this a very sad state for lace to be in. It is
> time for those of us who enjoy making and designing lace in the traditional
> manner to stand up and say we should also have recognition for our art and
> craft, and traditional lacemakers usually have a greater understanding of the
> craft. If you go to any Lace Day the number of traditional lacemakers far
> outweighs the number of modernists. I am currently running three classes and
> have only two interested in designing.  So why the emphasis on modern lace?
> Perhaps it is because it is fashionable in art and craft circles.
> 
> Come on traditional lacemakers, let us hear

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[lace] Modern v. traditional

[Alex Stillwell]

Hi Arachnids

I have had many emails thanking me for making the case for traditional lace
and thanking me for my stand, but all seem reluctant to stick their heads
above the parapet.  I think this a very sad state for lace to be in. It is
time for those of us who enjoy making and designing lace in the traditional
manner to stand up and say we should also have recognition for our art and
craft, and traditional lacemakers usually have a greater understanding of the
craft. If you go to any Lace Day the number of traditional lacemakers far
outweighs the number of modernists. I am currently running three classes and
have only two interested in designing.  So why the emphasis on modern lace?
Perhaps it is because it is fashionable in art and craft circles.

Come on traditional lacemakers, let us hear from you.

Alex

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