Re: [Langcom] deleted wiki -> deleted Wikidata sitelinks?

2018-02-12 Thread Marcos Williamson
In fact,  Moldovan/Romanian Cyrillic is still used as a language of
education for approximately 1/3 of the students in the Transnistria region.
Although in adulthood they tend to use Russian as a primary language, this
shouldn't influence how we treat their native variety, given that we
respect eg. Asturian even though most Asturian speakers use Castillian
Spanish as their primary language. In particular, having access to
information in the language of their education can be helpful for students
conducting school projects. I understand that the Wikipedia was locked and
ultimately deleted for political reasons, and a ro-cyrl was not allowed to
be created in the incubator, thus effectively meaning that there is, for
political reasons, no space whatsoever for Cyrillic content in
Moldovan/Romanian in Wikipedia projects, but I do think the labels are
important to retain.


2018-02-12 8:41 GMT-07:00 Amir E. Aharoni :

> Now that I think of it a bit more, perhaps we shouldn't rush with deleting
> labels.
>
> Moldovan in the Cyrillic alphabet is not used much now, and "mo" is a
> retired language code, but while Moldova was in the Soviet Union, this
> language was the language of education, press, literature, TV, and other
> media for over a million people. So, it's valuable to have structured
> documentation about how are names of cities and villages in Moldova, names
> of Moldovan people, and a lot of other relevant things are written in this
> language.
>
> I'm not sure that a label under the retired "mo" code is the right way to
> do it. Perhaps we could have labels in ro-cyrillic, and perhaps we could
> have this data as Wikidata property values rather than labels. I'm not that
> much of an expert in Wikidata to make this decision. But simply deleting
> labels without at least a bit of extra thought is probably not the right
> thing to do.
>
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
> 2018-02-09 16:51 GMT+02:00 Amir E. Aharoni :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> So now the Moldovan Wikipedia (mo) is deleted (
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projec
>> ts/Deletion_of_Moldovan_Wikipedia_2 ).
>>
>> But there are still a few sitelinks on Wikidata to this wiki, e.g.:
>> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5296
>> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21197
>> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q217
>>
>> There may be more.
>>
>> I guess that they should be deleted. All the labels of items and
>> properties in this language should also be removed. It must be made
>> impossible to add new ones. The raionale is that the language code is not
>> valid.
>>
>> I proposed this here, but didn't get any replies yet:
>> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Delete_a_wiki
>>
>> Does everybody in the Langcom agree? If nobody objects, I'll make a
>> technical proposal in Phabricator in a week.
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>
>
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Re: [Langcom] deleted wiki -> deleted Wikidata sitelinks?

2018-02-12 Thread Michael Everson
To specify Moldovan orthography, ro-MO-Cyrl could be used. 

M

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Re: [Langcom] deleted wiki -> deleted Wikidata sitelinks?

2018-02-12 Thread Michael Everson
I agree with Amir on this. 

Technically ro-Cyrl can mean 1) modern Romanian as used in Moldova during the 
Soviet period and 2) Older Romanian written in Slavonic characters. 

> On 12 Feb 2018, at 15:41, Amir E. Aharoni  
> wrote:
> 
> Now that I think of it a bit more, perhaps we shouldn't rush with deleting 
> labels.
> 
> Moldovan in the Cyrillic alphabet is not used much now, and "mo" is a retired 
> language code, but while Moldova was in the Soviet Union, this language was 
> the language of education, press, literature, TV, and other media for over a 
> million people. So, it's valuable to have structured documentation about how 
> are names of cities and villages in Moldova, names of Moldovan people, and a 
> lot of other relevant things are written in this language.
> 
> I'm not sure that a label under the retired "mo" code is the right way to do 
> it. Perhaps we could have labels in ro-cyrillic, and perhaps we could have 
> this data as Wikidata property values rather than labels. I'm not that much 
> of an expert in Wikidata to make this decision. But simply deleting labels 
> without at least a bit of extra thought is probably not the right thing to do.
> 
> 
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי


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Re: [Langcom] deleted wiki -> deleted Wikidata sitelinks?

2018-02-12 Thread Nicolas VIGNERON
Hi Amir,

I had the same question: are we losing information be deleting labels? (or
maybe more precisely, what information are you losing?)
I'm not sure of the answer but here an important fact: Moldovan is supposed
to be in Cyrillic but a lot of label in "mo" are not in Cyrillic
(especially for human beings).

Moving them to an other code label seems a good idea, I'll leave the
decision to linguists but ro-Cyrl sounds interesting.
Moving them to a property is a bad idea, that's not the way to do it on
Wikidata (and property with text values still need an ISO code).

Cdlt, ~nicolas

2018-02-12 16:41 GMT+01:00 Amir E. Aharoni :

> Now that I think of it a bit more, perhaps we shouldn't rush with deleting
> labels.
>
> Moldovan in the Cyrillic alphabet is not used much now, and "mo" is a
> retired language code, but while Moldova was in the Soviet Union, this
> language was the language of education, press, literature, TV, and other
> media for over a million people. So, it's valuable to have structured
> documentation about how are names of cities and villages in Moldova, names
> of Moldovan people, and a lot of other relevant things are written in this
> language.
>
> I'm not sure that a label under the retired "mo" code is the right way to
> do it. Perhaps we could have labels in ro-cyrillic, and perhaps we could
> have this data as Wikidata property values rather than labels. I'm not that
> much of an expert in Wikidata to make this decision. But simply deleting
> labels without at least a bit of extra thought is probably not the right
> thing to do.
>
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
> 2018-02-09 16:51 GMT+02:00 Amir E. Aharoni :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> So now the Moldovan Wikipedia (mo) is deleted (
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projec
>> ts/Deletion_of_Moldovan_Wikipedia_2 ).
>>
>> But there are still a few sitelinks on Wikidata to this wiki, e.g.:
>> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5296
>> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21197
>> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q217
>>
>> There may be more.
>>
>> I guess that they should be deleted. All the labels of items and
>> properties in this language should also be removed. It must be made
>> impossible to add new ones. The raionale is that the language code is not
>> valid.
>>
>> I proposed this here, but didn't get any replies yet:
>> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Delete_a_wiki
>>
>> Does everybody in the Langcom agree? If nobody objects, I'll make a
>> technical proposal in Phabricator in a week.
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>
>
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Re: [Langcom] deleted wiki -> deleted Wikidata sitelinks?

2018-02-12 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
Now that I think of it a bit more, perhaps we shouldn't rush with deleting
labels.

Moldovan in the Cyrillic alphabet is not used much now, and "mo" is a
retired language code, but while Moldova was in the Soviet Union, this
language was the language of education, press, literature, TV, and other
media for over a million people. So, it's valuable to have structured
documentation about how are names of cities and villages in Moldova, names
of Moldovan people, and a lot of other relevant things are written in this
language.

I'm not sure that a label under the retired "mo" code is the right way to
do it. Perhaps we could have labels in ro-cyrillic, and perhaps we could
have this data as Wikidata property values rather than labels. I'm not that
much of an expert in Wikidata to make this decision. But simply deleting
labels without at least a bit of extra thought is probably not the right
thing to do.


--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

2018-02-09 16:51 GMT+02:00 Amir E. Aharoni :

> Hi,
>
> So now the Moldovan Wikipedia (mo) is deleted (
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_
> projects/Deletion_of_Moldovan_Wikipedia_2 ).
>
> But there are still a few sitelinks on Wikidata to this wiki, e.g.:
> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5296
> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21197
> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q217
>
> There may be more.
>
> I guess that they should be deleted. All the labels of items and
> properties in this language should also be removed. It must be made
> impossible to add new ones. The raionale is that the language code is not
> valid.
>
> I proposed this here, but didn't get any replies yet:
> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Delete_a_wiki
>
> Does everybody in the Langcom agree? If nobody objects, I'll make a
> technical proposal in Phabricator in a week.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
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Re: [Langcom] deleted wiki -> deleted Wikidata sitelinks?

2018-02-09 Thread Nicolas VIGNERON
2018-02-09 17:38 GMT+01:00 Amir E. Aharoni :

> Heh, I actually hoped to discuss a bit, and I did not mean to actually get
> this done so quickly, but I don't object :)
>

Ooups, sorry. The links where going to
https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagina_principal%C4%83 to I thought the
deletion was pretty straightforward.


> Can labels be removed, too?
>

Technically yes, but apparently there is a lot of them and I can't querry
them all. I'll look into that.


> And can adding sitelinks and labels be prevented?
>

No. This should be asked (probably though a ticket on phabricator).


> And more importantly, can this be made into a policy? Deletion of a wiki
> is not a thing that happens often, but every once in a while it does, so it
> should be documented.
>

+1000, I entirely agree but this part is ut to you dear members of the
LangCom (I'm just a mere observer).

Cdlt, ~nicolas
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Re: [Langcom] deleted wiki -> deleted Wikidata sitelinks?

2018-02-09 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
Heh, I actually hoped to discuss a bit, and I did not mean to actually get
this done so quickly, but I don't object :)

Can labels be removed, too? And can adding sitelinks and labels be
prevented?

And more importantly, can this be made into a policy? Deletion of a wiki is
not a thing that happens often, but every once in a while it does, so it
should be documented.

Thanks.

Does


בתאריך 9 בפבר׳ 2018 18:07,‏ "Nicolas VIGNERON" 
כתב:

Done, 337 sitelinks removed with QuickStatements.

Cdlt, ~nicolas

2018-02-09 17:04 GMT+01:00 Amir E. Aharoni :

> Of course, it should be automated in some way with scripts and queries.
>
> בתאריך 9 בפבר׳ 2018 17:41,‏ "MarcoAurelio"  כתב:
>
> Sounds sensible to me. If the wiki do not exist anymore, there is no point
>> in keeping links to nonexistent projects. But how would you remove them?
>> Doing so by hand would be tedious. Maintenance script or bot would be
>> better. Regards, M.
>>
>> El El vie, 9 feb 2018 a las 15:52, Amir E. Aharoni <
>> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> escribió:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> So now the Moldovan Wikipedia (mo) is deleted (
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projec
>>> ts/Deletion_of_Moldovan_Wikipedia_2 ).
>>>
>>> But there are still a few sitelinks on Wikidata to this wiki, e.g.:
>>> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5296
>>> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21197
>>> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q217
>>>
>>> There may be more.
>>>
>>> I guess that they should be deleted. All the labels of items and
>>> properties in this language should also be removed. It must be made
>>> impossible to add new ones. The raionale is that the language code is not
>>> valid.
>>>
>>> I proposed this here, but didn't get any replies yet:
>>> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Delete_a_wiki
>>>
>>> Does everybody in the Langcom agree? If nobody objects, I'll make a
>>> technical proposal in Phabricator in a week.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>> ___
>>> Langcom mailing list
>>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
>>>
>> --
>> M. A.
>>
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>>
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>

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Re: [Langcom] deleted wiki -> deleted Wikidata sitelinks?

2018-02-09 Thread Nicolas VIGNERON
Done, 337 sitelinks removed with QuickStatements.

Cdlt, ~nicolas

2018-02-09 17:04 GMT+01:00 Amir E. Aharoni :

> Of course, it should be automated in some way with scripts and queries.
>
> בתאריך 9 בפבר׳ 2018 17:41,‏ "MarcoAurelio"  כתב:
>
> Sounds sensible to me. If the wiki do not exist anymore, there is no point
>> in keeping links to nonexistent projects. But how would you remove them?
>> Doing so by hand would be tedious. Maintenance script or bot would be
>> better. Regards, M.
>>
>> El El vie, 9 feb 2018 a las 15:52, Amir E. Aharoni <
>> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> escribió:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> So now the Moldovan Wikipedia (mo) is deleted (
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projec
>>> ts/Deletion_of_Moldovan_Wikipedia_2 ).
>>>
>>> But there are still a few sitelinks on Wikidata to this wiki, e.g.:
>>> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5296
>>> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21197
>>> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q217
>>>
>>> There may be more.
>>>
>>> I guess that they should be deleted. All the labels of items and
>>> properties in this language should also be removed. It must be made
>>> impossible to add new ones. The raionale is that the language code is not
>>> valid.
>>>
>>> I proposed this here, but didn't get any replies yet:
>>> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Delete_a_wiki
>>>
>>> Does everybody in the Langcom agree? If nobody objects, I'll make a
>>> technical proposal in Phabricator in a week.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>> ___
>>> Langcom mailing list
>>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
>>>
>> --
>> M. A.
>>
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>>
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Re: [Langcom] deleted wiki -> deleted Wikidata sitelinks?

2018-02-09 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
Of course, it should be automated in some way with scripts and queries.

בתאריך 9 בפבר׳ 2018 17:41,‏ "MarcoAurelio"  כתב:

> Sounds sensible to me. If the wiki do not exist anymore, there is no point
> in keeping links to nonexistent projects. But how would you remove them?
> Doing so by hand would be tedious. Maintenance script or bot would be
> better. Regards, M.
>
> El El vie, 9 feb 2018 a las 15:52, Amir E. Aharoni <
> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> escribió:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> So now the Moldovan Wikipedia (mo) is deleted (
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_
>> projects/Deletion_of_Moldovan_Wikipedia_2 ).
>>
>> But there are still a few sitelinks on Wikidata to this wiki, e.g.:
>> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5296
>> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21197
>> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q217
>>
>> There may be more.
>>
>> I guess that they should be deleted. All the labels of items and
>> properties in this language should also be removed. It must be made
>> impossible to add new ones. The raionale is that the language code is not
>> valid.
>>
>> I proposed this here, but didn't get any replies yet:
>> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Delete_a_wiki
>>
>> Does everybody in the Langcom agree? If nobody objects, I'll make a
>> technical proposal in Phabricator in a week.
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>> ___
>> Langcom mailing list
>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
>>
> --
> M. A.
>
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Re: [Langcom] deleted wiki -> deleted Wikidata sitelinks?

2018-02-09 Thread MarcoAurelio
Sounds sensible to me. If the wiki do not exist anymore, there is no point
in keeping links to nonexistent projects. But how would you remove them?
Doing so by hand would be tedious. Maintenance script or bot would be
better. Regards, M.

El El vie, 9 feb 2018 a las 15:52, Amir E. Aharoni <
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> escribió:

> Hi,
>
> So now the Moldovan Wikipedia (mo) is deleted (
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Deletion_of_Moldovan_Wikipedia_2
> ).
>
> But there are still a few sitelinks on Wikidata to this wiki, e.g.:
> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5296
> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21197
> * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q217
>
> There may be more.
>
> I guess that they should be deleted. All the labels of items and
> properties in this language should also be removed. It must be made
> impossible to add new ones. The raionale is that the language code is not
> valid.
>
> I proposed this here, but didn't get any replies yet:
> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Delete_a_wiki
>
> Does everybody in the Langcom agree? If nobody objects, I'll make a
> technical proposal in Phabricator in a week.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
> ___
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>
-- 
M. A.
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