Re: [Lazarus] Large program size - 1.8 MB for empty GUI project
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Marc Weustink m...@dommelstein.net wrote:
No, but the problem is caused by the way fpc stores info in the .ppu
Somehow it is possible that the checksum of the interface part stored in
the .ppu is affected by the implementation section.
Since I started using Lazarus (4+ years ago), I have only two had a
checksum issue compiling lazarus. A simple 'make clean' and then
recompile resolved the problem. But I actually think the issue was
caused due to a FPC upgrade - I can't remember exactly, but am pretty
sure.
To avoid this and to make the LCL usabole as library, most unit circles
were removed. One way to ensure that is by putting all uses in the
interface section.
OK I'm confused. How does solving circular reference get resolved by
putting everything in the Interface section? Doing that is what causes
circular reference problems?? Maybe I understand circular reference
problems differently to you... this is what I mean:
{ this defines TClass1 }
unit Unit1;
uses
unit2;
type
TClass1 = class(TObject)
private
FRef: TClass2;
end;
{ this defines TClass2 }
unit Unit2;
uses
unit1;
type
TClass2 = class(TObject)
private
FRef: TClass1;
end;
=
Both classes require each other and can't be compiled. This is what I
understand as circular unit references. To solve this you can lump
both class definitions in a single unit and add a 'forward
declaration' at the top.
any issues. I limit the usage of interface uses clause as much as
possible. I believed that is why the smartlinking works so well with
fpGUI - I can create a GUI application that is only 340KB in size.
Anyway, back to the subject, I cannot imagine why FPC when smartlinking
makes a difference between interface and implementation uses. Especially
if you use an external linker, like on linux.
OK, I worded that wrong. For smartlinking there shouldn't be any
difference if the unit is in the Interface or Implementation section.
What is important is if the unit is used or not. I think the reason I
can get such small executables, is because every gui component lives
in it's own unit. fpGUI doesn't have a StdCtrls or ComCtrls unit which
lumps a whole bunch of classes together. And when I create
applications I only add the units I really need. This is obviously
key.
Regards,
- Graeme -
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Re: [Lazarus] Large program size - 1.8 MB for empty GUI project
Sergei Gorelkin wrote: Mattias Gaertner wrote: Btw a little different question : what is needed to allow lineinfo reading stack trace from external file (in case of exception) for example of the name corresponding to exe name but with different extension. FPC can now dump debug info into such separate file. Such feature would be very useful as compilation option for example. Write a lineinfo unit that supports the external file. Isn't it already written? It looks like exeinfo.pp (unit shared by lineinfo and lnfodwrf) supports this feature. Didn't test it though. However, it gets the name of debug info file from the debug section of the executable, so the executable shouln't be stripped in this case. Regards, Sergei That's great! Maybe it could be changed so if debug info filename is not found in debug section of executable then it tries to open a separate debug file generated by fpc (which can be of the same name as executable but different extension). I must investigate this option. Best regards Boguslaw ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lazarus.freepascal.org http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Large program size - 1.8 MB for empty GUI project
Graeme Geldenhuys schrieb: I thought this was known: http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/DesignGuidelines This is the first I here of this. Me 2. I have used FPC since 2.0.2 under Linux and Windows and haven't had any issues. I limit the usage of interface uses clause as much as possible. I believed that is why the smartlinking works so well with fpGUI - I can create a GUI application that is only 340KB in size. Smartlinking is not directly affected by Uses. Instead it's most often the code in used unit Initzialization sections, that makes all related code part of the executable. E.g. when initialization code creates objects or references subroutines, that are not otherwise used by the application code, a smart linker cannot exclude that definitely referenced code. Similarly virtual methods: they are referenced in the VMT, which again is referenced in every instance of the class. Consequently virtual methods must become part of the executable, as soon as a class typename is used in any way in an application. Static methods, in contrast, can be safely omitted when not referenced anywhere else. IMO. DoDi ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lazarus.freepascal.org http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Large program size - 1.8 MB for empty GUI project
Marco van de Voort wrote: How recently was this all validated to still be a problem? I know FPC didn't performed the (apparantly long due) unit system rewrite yet, but not that much problems in that realm are reported in mantis anymore, even for the current implementation. And this one: http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=13478 Best regards, Paul Ishenin. ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lazarus.freepascal.org http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] USB Commincation with Lazarus and libusb library
2009/4/8 Henry Vermaak henry.verm...@gmail.com: 2009/4/8 Sébastien FLOURETTE sebastien.floure...@gmail.com: I try that you tell me but the result is not good. so what was the result of the libusb test program in c? do you have permissions to use the device? Have you got an example of use libusb on Lazarus. Perhaps I have a parameters or other is not good. If you have can you send me it. i already pasted the relevant code, there's nothing else that's different in my code. it works for me in linux. you might have to make a test program in c and ask for help on the libusb list. henry ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lazarus.freepascal.org http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Large program size - 1.8 MB for empty GUI project
Paul Ishenin wrote: Bogusław Brandys wrote: That's great! Maybe it could be changed so if debug info filename is not found in debug section of executable then it tries to open a separate debug file generated by fpc (which can be of the same name as executable but different extension) What for? If you want a separate debug info file (-Xg) then your executable will contain a section with that file name. As result you have a small executable. If you distribute that executable without debug file it will work fine but without line info. If you distribute with debug file then you will have lineinfo. What do you need more? Best regards, Paul Ishenin. ___ Wow,this is exactly what I want.Thank you.Is that really working ? I remember having problems with it - no source line info in stack trace output in case of external debug file. Does stabs need to be loaded at program startup ? I would like it to work without need to loading debug info from this separate file at program start because this is a huge slowdown especially when antivirus is scanning file.Ideally it should load stabs only in case of exception or stack trace request. Regards Boguslaw ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lazarus.freepascal.org http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Large program size - 1.8 MB for empty GUI project
2009/4/8 Alexey S. Smirnov betates...@rambler.ru: The Smart Link process should check what variables/functions/definitions are used in your project to cut off unused code. It is really simple to do so, if some units are listed in Implementation section - linker will only add unit functions that are mentioned in you code, not more. If units are listed in Interface section - it mean that potentially all code from that particular unit should be included. Because your global variable/class should have access to all provided code/procedures/properties. Marc Weustink (i think wrote): Just a note: some people think that units can be compiled in one pass - this is not true. The compiler must stop on every Uses clause, and So .exe's should be (much) smaller if your uses units are put mostly in implementation (not easy to find circular references), but we say rather put it in interface? If we have to do multipass why is it necessary to have a distinction at all? (Ok, because writing compilers isn't exactly a walk in the park)... ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lazarus.freepascal.org http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Large program size - 1.8 MB for empty GUI project (uses clause in initialization vs implementation?)
Alexey S. Smirnov schrieb:
Martin Friebe пишет:
Is this documented somewhere? I can't follow the logic anyway, the scope
how much my code uses of another unit can not be predicted, simply by
where I include the other code?
Actually, I do believe I have seen examples where code form units used
in the interface was successfully smart-linked.
However there is a differentiation what can be smart linked and what
not. If a class has RTTI information, then methods from it can not be
removed by smart-linking. Classes with RTTI (afaik) are either included
as a whole or not at all. (And that make sense, because RTTI allows to
access any method by finding it from a resource or literal string; which
are both not parsed by the compiler, and therefore not determinable)
Best Regards
Martin
May the problem will become understandable, if we will do a little
experiment. So. Let's test the Interface/Implementation Uses sections of
/lazarus/lcl/graphics.pp. This section for Lazarus 0.9.26 was that:
|interface
uses
SysUtils, Math, Types, Classes, Contnrs, FPCAdds,
FileUtil,
FPImgCmn, FPImage, FPCanvas,
FPReadPNG, FPWritePNG, PNGComn, // png support
FPReadBMP, FPWriteBMP, // bmp support
FPReadPNM, FPWritePNM, // png support
FPReadJpeg, FPWriteJpeg, // jpg support
IntfGraphics,
AvgLvlTree,
LCLStrConsts, LCLType, LCLProc, LMessages, LCLIntf, LResources,
LCLResCache,
GraphType, IcnsTypes, GraphMath, InterfaceBase, WSReferences;|
|
implementation
uses
SyncObjs;|
It was cleanup by me and now looks like that:
|Interface
uses
SysUtils, Types, Classes,
FPImgCmn, FPImage, FPCanvas,
FPReadJpeg,FPWriteJpeg, // jpg support
IntfGraphics, AvgLvlTree,
LCLType, LMessages, LResources,LCLResCache,
GraphType, IcnsTypes, GraphMath, InterfaceBase, WSReferences;|
|implementation
uses
{FPReadPNG,} FPWritePNG,PNGComn, // png support
{FPReadBMP,} FPWriteBMP, // bmp support
FPReadPNM, FPWritePNM, // png support
LCLStrConsts,LCLProc,LCLIntf,
FileUtil, FPCAdds, Math,
SyncObjs;
|So, previously we have 33 Units mentioned in Interface section and 1 in
Implementation section. After cleanup we have 19 Units in Interface
section and 12 in Implementation. 3 Units from Interface section was
completely removed. ;)
Both Lazarus and all connected apps and projects are working fine with
this cleanup. And if you do the same thing - you will see that that
size of Lazarus will be 15-20 KB less. May be - because of such
optimization, may be - because of removing unused units from *Interface*
section
This could be simply the influence of a different memory layout of the exe.
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Re: [Lazarus] Large program size - 1.8 MB for empty GUI project (uses clause in initialization vs implementation?)
Florian Klaempfl пишет: Alexey S. Smirnov schrieb: This could be simply the influence of a different memory layout of the exe. Yes, potentially... But, please - explain - why compiler can simply detect and remove unused Unit from Implementation section and NEWER do that for Interface section? ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lazarus.freepascal.org http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] OT: Namespaces?
This isn't name spacing, but aliases. Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: From a discussion I want to present this idea: FPC (and Delphi) could extend the Uses syntax to USES unitname [IN filename] [AS identifier] The optional AS part would allow to create an alias (shortcut...) for units of possibly conflicting (same) name. IMO a simple implementation of the most important benefits of namespaces, that does not require the introduction of orthogonal namespaces in addition to units. While this suggestion is not related to Lazarus, I still would appreciate comments from the community. DoDi ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lazarus.freepascal.org http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lazarus.freepascal.org http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Large program size - 1.8 MB for empty GUI project
On Wed, Apr 08, 2009 at 03:55:54PM +0200, Marc Weustink wrote: How recently was this all validated to still be a problem? I know FPC didn't performed the (apparantly long due) unit system rewrite yet, but not that much problems in that realm are reported in mantis anymore, even for the current implementation. The only thing I know was that this only could be solved by the unit rewrite. Since it is not rewriten yet, I assume it is not fixed. Afaik the rewrite had as an objective to make these errors rarer, and maybe easier to detect (just like 2.0 fixed the constantly broken optimizer). However that doesn't necessarily means that 2.2.x (and maybe the branch based on 2.3.x if it doesn't receive the rewrite anymore) is a totally lost case. Maybe some things (like relating cross units inlines) are a lost case, but at least blatant problems should be reported. If Lazarus as the most major user starts avoid these problems instead of reporting them, that is worrying. Paul more or less proves the point with 2 bugs in a version cycle of which one is inlining related. ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lazarus.freepascal.org http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Large program size - 1.8 MB for empty GUI project
Marco van de Voort wrote: If Lazarus as the most major user starts avoid these problems instead of reporting them, that is worrying. Paul more or less proves the point with 2 bugs in a version cycle of which one is inlining related. For me, when developing it is the difference between a make and a make clean all on every compilation. (and I compile a lot of times when refactoring). The first is doable, in case of the latter I quit development. Marc ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lazarus.freepascal.org http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Large program size - 1.8 MB for empty GUI project
Reenen Laurie schrieb: Just a note: some people think that units can be compiled in one pass - this is not true. The compiler must stop on every Uses clause, and So .exe's should be (much) smaller if your uses units are put mostly in implementation No, that's not related at all. If we have to do multipass why is it necessary to have a distinction at all? The compiler must know where to stop pass 1 - and that place is the begin of the implementation section. When the interface section uses definitions from other units, all these units must become part of the interface uses clause, so that the compiler can compile these units before. The distinction between interface and implementation also allows to recompile only selected units. When only the implementation section of a unit changes, it's sufficient to recompile only that unit. When the interface part changes, also all those units must be recompiled, which use that unit. DoDi ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lazarus.freepascal.org http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
